{"@context":"http://iiif.io/api/presentation/3/context.json","id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/iiif/w66930qx5r/manifest","type":"Manifest","label":{"en":["Interview with Gregory Shuker [1/4-in. magnetic audiotape], May 1964"]},"logo":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/029/original/uo-logo-hires.png?1580744881","metadata":[{"label":{"en":["Description"]},"value":{"en":["1 sound tape reel : 3 3/4, 1 7/8 ips; 3 in. (Physdesc)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Format"]},"value":{"en":["1 sound tape reel(s) (analog)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Identifier"]},"value":{"en":["Coll 458 (Collection Call Number)","JB0053 (Digital Object ID)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Date"]},"value":{"en":["May 1964 (Creation)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Source Metadata URI"]},"value":{"en":["https://scua.uoregon.edu/repositories/2/archival_objects/345426"]}},{"label":{"en":["Agent"]},"value":{"en":["Shuker, Gregory"]}}],"summary":{"en":["1 sound tape reel : 3 3/4, 1 7/8 ips; 3 in."]},"provider":[{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/aboutus","type":"Agent","label":{"en":["University of Oregon Libraries"]},"homepage":[{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/","type":"Text","label":{"en":["University of Oregon Libraries"]},"format":"text/html"}],"logo":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/029/original/uo-logo-hires.png?1580744881","type":"Image"}]}],"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/public/images/audio-default.png","type":"Image","format":"image/png"}],"items":[{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141802/file/262373","type":"Canvas","label":{"en":["Media File 1 of 3 - Coll458_jb0053_Shuker_01_p1.mp3"]},"duration":43.80735,"width":640,"height":360,"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/public/images/audio-default.png","type":"Image","format":"image/png"}],"items":[{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141802/file/262373/content/1","type":"AnnotationPage","items":[{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141802/file/262373/content/1/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"painting","body":{"id":"https://aviary-p-universityoforegonlibraries.s3.wasabisys.com/collection_resource_files/resource_files/000/262/373/original/Coll458_jb0053_Shuker_01_p1.mp3?1739226534","type":"Audio","format":"audio/mpeg","duration":43.80735,"width":640,"height":360},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141802/file/262373","metadata":[]}]}],"annotations":[{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141802/file/262373/transcript/76681","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["AUTO_TRINT_Coll458_jb0053_Shuker_01_p1.mp3 [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141802/file/262373/transcript/76681/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e Stop. It's getting on. Yeah. Yeah. Testing one, two. Three for testing. Yeah. Now we had to do. The main thing we had to do was to. Was to put together some kind of a one of sampling of the kind of thing we got. Not random sampling, but some kind of sampling of which would kind of show off the, the stuff, but and also have some make some sense within itself.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141802/file/262373#t=3.4,38.85"}]},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141802/file/262373/transcript/76681","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["English [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141802/file/262373/transcript/76681/annotation/2","type":"Annotation","motivation":"subtitling","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/file_transcripts/associated_files/000/076/681/original/trint_Coll458_jb0053_Shuker_01_p1_transcript.vtt?1740614699","format":"text/vtt","language":"en"},"target":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/file_transcripts/associated_files/000/076/681/original/trint_Coll458_jb0053_Shuker_01_p1_transcript.vtt?1740614699"}]}]},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141802/file/262374","type":"Canvas","label":{"en":["Media File 2 of 3 - Coll458_jb0053_Shuker_01_p2.mp3"]},"duration":1204.87184,"width":640,"height":360,"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/public/images/audio-default.png","type":"Image","format":"image/png"}],"items":[{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141802/file/262374/content/1","type":"AnnotationPage","items":[{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141802/file/262374/content/2/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"painting","body":{"id":"https://aviary-p-universityoforegonlibraries.s3.wasabisys.com/collection_resource_files/resource_files/000/262/374/original/Coll458_jb0053_Shuker_01_p2.mp3?1739226550","type":"Audio","format":"audio/mpeg","duration":1204.87184,"width":640,"height":360},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141802/file/262374","metadata":[]}]}],"annotations":[{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141802/file/262374/transcript/79501","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["AUTO_TRINT_Coll458_jb0053_Shuker_01_p2.mp3 [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141802/file/262374/transcript/79501/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e And, uh... This is not the first cut or anything like that. But it was a way of learning the material and also presenting it to the network so that they could have something to show to a prospective buyer. And we had, you were here one day during which we looked for maybe eight or nine hours. We had 19 hours that we looked at. And... We've got a one hour presentation here.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141802/file/262374#t=4.55,38.0"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141802/file/262374/transcript/79501/annotation/2","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e This implied an awful lot of choosing, though, you see. Right here, yeah. However, I'm not...","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141802/file/262374#t=40.089,45.21"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141802/file/262374/transcript/79501/annotation/3","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e However, I'm not obligated to make the film out of just what I showed them. That is, I don't have to take this same hour's worth and rearrange it and make a one-hour film. That's nothing new.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141802/file/262374#t=43.33,53.83"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141802/file/262374/transcript/79501/annotation/4","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e You can use things from other things.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141802/file/262374#t=54.91,56.65"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141802/file/262374/transcript/79501/annotation/5","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e We said what we're going to show you is not a story, this is not a story and there is a story built into this. I mean we have a main character, this young lieutenant who's learning things and develops throughout and we have couple of other characters and we said we're not doing that but what we do want to show is an impression of being there and it's what it's like where the story will take place both in the air and on the ground. And a little bit about these characters. Now, there are a couple of scenes in this thing which are as good as they'll ever be right out of the camera because of the shooting. That's what I wanted to know, yeah. Abbott's scene of the young lieutenant being promoted and thrown into the swimming pool which I described to you, which you will see here, it's all one shot. Yeah. And the comments, the reactions to it, all that is as good it'll ever been. We have a combat mission, on the other hand, which is very rough in terms of sound cutting. You'll feel gaps and so forth because that stuff has to come out of a lot of different cameras and be matched together, whereas you have the long sync takes, are just nice long pieces of sync sound. So I have three reels. Basically what they do is this, and this is what I said to these guys the other day. The first reel. Is to give you a feeling of being physically flying a helicopter under combat. I mean, it's a couple of minutes of sound and fury right off, which does two things. It proves right away that what you're seeing is real, as you can see. I mean that you're there. In other words, we wanted to establish the physical feeling of being present during combat. And also to introduce you, just very briefly, to two or three characters who will appear in the footage that they'll see during the next hour. And also who will be in the finished story, although there are other characters that'll be in a finished story that aren't in this. And the second reel was an effort to get the character, the lieutenant and the major, into a situation where there was going to be some action that you could follow. So we took one combat mission, which was Easter Sunday, and made a day, a combat day, which is the second Rio. This is something which you plan to do anyway. Oh yeah, but it won't be in this form, you know. I mean it'll be much more snuggly edited than this. Then the third Rio was in it. We said that we'll show you action. And we will show you the feeling of dedication and commitment by the part of a couple of these people. Just things they have to say, sitting in a room talking. And lastly we'll show you, try to show you a little bit of the personal kind of involvement and part of this guy as a human being. When we have a scene in the third reel where the young lieutenant goes to an orphanage because he wants to adopt a child. And At the very end also we have something that's kind of interesting, which is that there is a song that these pilots made up about themselves, and we've played it just as it came out with a wild picture for it. They sing it themselves? One of the pilots, one of the, one the pilots. And they wrote it themselves and one of pilots sings it and it's, the song itself is kind of a comment on everything you've seen in these things. So on the first reel, the first part of the first real, in order to get these people, this was a monster's room full of people, in order to them sort of oriented to where they were, instead of sitting here in the corner speaking out loud, I went into the booth there and and spoke through the speaker and then recorded that. So you'll hear my voice four or five times at the beginning, but it doesn't mean anything. It's not a narration. It's supposed to sound like a narration, it It was just. Me talking instead of kind of a scratch track yeah and the idea was just so it would sound a little bit more integrated instead of my sitting over here with a little light saying that's Lieutenant Delevingne Major Delevin and after just after I introduced the characters I shut up so premise. I mean, then we're what we're going to see. Also, see the characters a little bit.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141802/file/262374#t=56.61,334.31"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141802/file/262374/transcript/79501/annotation/6","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Is this something of the way you think you'll approach it in the final...","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141802/file/262374#t=335.03,337.19"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141802/file/262374/transcript/79501/annotation/7","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e No. I don't think so. I mean, yes, in the sense that we do want to establish the presence immediately, I think, the physical presence, but I want to start the story of the guy, of Gary himself, more further back, that is really low and relaxed and sort of getting into it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141802/file/262374#t=338.94,363.06"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141802/file/262374/transcript/79501/annotation/8","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e One thing that struck me is that we didn't know who he was talking to.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141802/file/262374#t=365.18,367.28"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141802/file/262374/transcript/79501/annotation/9","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e Right. Oh, you see, all these things, I mean, we'd take care of them. The narrator would say it, or we'd have a picture of his wife or something.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141802/file/262374#t=368.32,375.22"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141802/file/262374/transcript/79501/annotation/10","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e You don't plan on using her recording?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141802/file/262374#t=376.63,377.91"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141802/file/262374/transcript/79501/annotation/11","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, we don't have it yet. I mean, whether we went out and got it or not. Oh, you mean her recording? Yes, yes. I do plan to use her recording, sure. An awful lot. We wanted to keep this as simple as we could, but the opening combat sequence is designed just to physically put you in the air and your gun under fire. Now, the thing that's the second reel is... A mission and it starts, it's actually an Easter Sunday and there's no narration so it may be a little confusing but the way I explained it the other day is I said simply that what you have here is a situation where there's a small area where the Viet Cong have been located and instead of one of these major troop lifts, this is not part of a huge offensive, this is somewhat akin to what used to be called an eagle flight, which is a quick strike in and out. The mission here is for the armed helicopters to neutralize the area first, if they can. As much as possible. Then to escort the troop-carrying helicopters in, who would land on the ground, disgorge Just a few troops each, maybe seven or eight out of each one of six helicopters. Just a small unit. They're just after a few. And then to get out, leaving the troops on the ground, of course, because then they theoretically take the area. And what actually happens here is you'll see this. They'll neutralize the area, pretty much so. Then we'll go down on the grounds and get out with the troops under fire. And there's gunfire actually going on. And get back out and there's a kind of other thing going on at the same time which is you'll see several pictures of a sergeant and this was sergeant Cole who normally flew as crew chief for Gary and on this particular day because Gary was flying a different aircraft Delevingne was flying the one Gary usually flew so Cole was flying crew chief or Delevin So you'll see the reason we have a lot of Sgt. Cole we'll see in the obvious, but let me think, and then this, yeah, yeah we're ready. Let me bring my glasses. Really is pretty rough because we had an awful lot of cameras running and it's from an awful of different places. This is sort of the scale of the problem we're going to have. Yeah, anytime. Each thing within that, or around it, is totally usable, isn't it? There are not a lot of this kind of back and forth. I mean, you know, Gary in the water gets his paper out and kind of comes to a natural end and then you pick up the other characters and then one of them is in the corner and you held on still well long enough to get him out of the water before you went back to see what Delvin was doing, which is whiskey business, but But look what happens when it works. You get the total feeling of being present in something like that. And I make that scene reeling. Really pay off, of course. We can build up some idea that this guy was late, he was a little worried, you know, which is true. He said, I'm the oldest second lieutenant in the army, he's a little worried about it. If somehow you can establish a slight feeling of anticipating this, then it'll pop. That's what it sounds like, right there. Let's duplicate that sound.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141802/file/262374#t=378.96,608.32"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141802/file/262374/transcript/79501/annotation/12","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Mm-hmm There you go.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141802/file/262374#t=609.13,612.99"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141802/file/262374/transcript/79501/annotation/13","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e She and Bill Ray, we had two teams, and it's one way it's not a good film, I mean in terms of these later ones, because it's a story of something that didn't happen, rather than something it did. Which is this David? David. It's the story of a guy living in the Sinanon house, which is where the drug addicts live in California. And the point of the film is, a week in the life of this guy, when he's there, he's been there for a while, he thinks he's cured and he wants to leave to go back to the outside world. And it's sort of the story of the effort on the part of all the people that has to keep him there. So uh when you say this is didn't happen well what i mean is it's not the story of of something a person does it's rather the story something he doesn't that is his decision to stay is a decision you can't photograph decisions but but the uh the structure of the film and the point of view was the first it was the full length uh in the chronology of what we've done it's the first","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141802/file/262374#t=618.089,684.46"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141802/file/262374/transcript/79501/annotation/14","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 3:\u003c/strong\u003e It's the beginning of...","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141802/file/262374#t=685.89,686.57"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141802/file/262374/transcript/79501/annotation/15","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e It's the beginning of what I think of the place where we are now. When you say you moved away from a documentary style... In that sense. What? Well, to more of the personal drama story built into a situation where there's a set of events. From that, although a lot of the earlier films had story structures of their own, that is... School integration today in New Orleans, a little girl going to school and the X-15 testing a plane, X-16 pilot, and Kennedy running in the primary and these all had dramatic structure but the, just if you look at those early films, the long camera runs, the waiting for something to happen while you're right on the camera, the sort of watching a person look within himself and trying to look within himself with him. Without using an artificial voiceover or something. I mean, we had a situation in which- You have a house full of people who are living together by choice, not by law. In fact, they're unpopular in Santa Monica. People are trying to get rid of them. They don't like the idea of drug addicts living together in a house, in one place, because you've got this incredible collection of criminals under one roof. I mean, ex-prostitutes, and murderers, and thieves, and con artists, and so forth. All of whom are brought together and with this one tremendous motivation to stay clean from drugs and and the the thing that sort of keeps people there is the is the these synonyms, the sessions, they call them, where they sit around and blast each other and it's not really group therapy because there's no therapist. It's sort of a leaderless situation. You have to see this to understand it really but more drug addicts have stayed cleaner longer, having been there than any hospitals or anything else. So it occurred to me that somewhere within a house under one roof was 60 people living in there, all of whom are a lot of musicians and artists. There must be some kind of a story. So I went out and lived there for a week and a half by myself. And just like going out to this helicopter group by my living room, obviously there are a hundred stories. I mean, you choose... And I picked a young trumpet player who... Originally I thought, well, we've got a newcomer, somebody coming in and kicking, you know, and you get the whole thing. But the more I noticed, the more realized that you can always shoot that. There are two or three people a week come in there, they kick, and then they can't stand it, and they leave. So if you just want to shoot that, but really, what's really going on in this place is where you get a guy who's been there a while, who is... Who is clean and yet who's got all the reasons for wanting to leave to go back to his normal life and yet within his normal, so-called normal life, are all the pressures which made him an addict in the first place and which would make him an attic again. And this was true in the case of this guy. And he had a wife and a child who were his great things in his life and also very directly the cause of his being a drug addict. His wife was really playing his mother and was, you know, this sounds like a... This all is and you see all of this so basically it's a story that starts on a sunday when his wife comes to visit him tries to get him to leave and and the following sunday when she comes back to really get him out of there and he sends her away and what happens in the week in between is a series of sort of trials for this guy and he's in these synonon sessions. It's a personal drama, completely. There's no time element, there's no news event that it's tied into, there's unlike primary and Yankee No and a lot of these things. It's where we took the cameras into a, for the first time, into a dramatic situation that could take place any time. And it's got all the problems, I mean all the sound problems and everything else, but it's still one of my favorites because it was, we made that in the early in the summer of 61, so it was three years ago. We went out there in July, June or July, I guess June, looked the place over and then went out and shot it in July. So it's almost three years and And it took forever to edit it and everything else, because everybody's learning with it. If you're looking at stuff, Yankee, you know, some of these primary, which you should see David. I've seen that primary. Yeah. You should see this David because I'm sure that in the long run this probably be one of the, one of the, uh... Sort of turning point domes although it hasn't been shown it's one of these timing ones and it's what are the one of the ones that timing is least likely to sell obviously because of the subject matter so it hasn' been seen but you could see it","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141802/file/262374#t=685.98,1003.78"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141802/file/262374/transcript/79501/annotation/16","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Was Maisel working on it?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141802/file/262374#t=1003.6,1004.96"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141802/file/262374/transcript/79501/annotation/17","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e No he left by then yeah I guess he had he left the spring right before I'm right before that has been I went to Africa with me and Ricky and we shot two was two half hours we run the air in May of 61 three years ago so I don't know what else I left just about that time because I went out to California in June, I guess. So look at this place. Penny got interested in it, so we, and then, as I said, I had also a new, Bill Ray, who was a new photographer that had worked on Eddie Sachs with me, he went and now went as a second sound person in our spot. Yeah. And you ought to see that one.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141802/file/262374#t=1004.84,1050.94"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141802/file/262374/transcript/79501/annotation/18","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e So you think that the development of what you're doing here stems from this?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141802/file/262374#t=1054.889,1059.73"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141802/file/262374/transcript/79501/annotation/19","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e Not direct, well not totally, but I mean certain techniques, certain knowing knowing when to shut up and how far you can go in a situation and the instincts for when you're interfering and when you're not really and all those things we had. Synanon or David was the kind of dress rehearsal for because you can't ask for a better scene than this all the world within a house. Or on a ship, you know, a traditional thing, and there was a headman, and he's a god figure, really was. And he sort of sat up in a little room and made pronouncements from time to time. We could photograph, we'd go in and shoot him, and he'd tell us this kid is making a mistake, and then you go out and see the kid making a mistakes. And this wonderful feeling of being onto something that you could go with, and it was going right, and you didn't have to interfere at all, or even imply, or even hope, suggest out loud, gee wouldn't it be good if he went to the bakery next Thursday and worked. You know, there was just this absolute awareness on both parts, that we were after, whatever really happened, and that they were not about to interfere with us or... Or try to show this their best side. In other words, you get this sort of funny thing we call this respect for each other. I think that, no, I mean, David is a turning point for me, at least for me personally, I think, because it proved a lot of those things to me. That I hadn't learned working on the earlier films where I was essentially just working as a... As sort of the reporter half of a two-man team and doing editing is a way of learning how to make how to you know what films are all about but with synon or david we got into a we got into a real we got in to the things that we've run into many times since with Susan Starr, Jane, President Kennedy, and Willie Niser, the lawyer, and Don Moore, and recently this... Helicopter bunch, the same set of conditions are going where there's something happening and it's going to happen whether you're around or not, although you're being around, it could interfere, so you work hard at not interfering, you know?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141802/file/262374#t=1061.38,1199.07"}]},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141802/file/262374/transcript/79501","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["English [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141802/file/262374/transcript/79501/annotation/20","type":"Annotation","motivation":"subtitling","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/file_transcripts/associated_files/000/079/501/original/trint_Coll458_jb0053_Shuker_01_p2_transcript.vtt?1747070073","format":"text/vtt","language":"en"},"target":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/file_transcripts/associated_files/000/079/501/original/trint_Coll458_jb0053_Shuker_01_p2_transcript.vtt?1747070073"}]}]},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141802/file/262375","type":"Canvas","label":{"en":["Media File 3 of 3 - Coll458_jb0053_Shuker_02.mp3"]},"duration":1273.05143,"width":640,"height":360,"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/public/images/audio-default.png","type":"Image","format":"image/png"}],"items":[{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141802/file/262375/content/1","type":"AnnotationPage","items":[{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141802/file/262375/content/3/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"painting","body":{"id":"https://aviary-p-universityoforegonlibraries.s3.wasabisys.com/collection_resource_files/resource_files/000/262/375/original/Coll458_jb0053_Shuker_02.mp3?1739226550","type":"Audio","format":"audio/mpeg","duration":1273.05143,"width":640,"height":360},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141802/file/262375","metadata":[]}]}],"annotations":[{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141802/file/262375/transcript/79516","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["AUTO_TRINT_Coll458_jb0053_Shuker_02.mp3 [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141802/file/262375/transcript/79516/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e I wasn't smoking at all, I started smoking inside.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141802/file/262375#t=4.37,8.13"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141802/file/262375/transcript/79516/annotation/2","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e What do you think could be the possibilities of this medium, as you're viewing it? You mean television, or this kind of shooting? Oh, my God, I...","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141802/file/262375#t=13.8,28.34"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141802/file/262375/transcript/79516/annotation/3","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e I think as we get to know more and more about that. About uh I don't mean when I say techniques now I'm not talking about individual shooting styles and and uh this business of how you maneuver around in a room and not getting away and eye signals and all that you know everybody's we're developing that and you can hear whispers on the tape today and the orphanage scene. You wouldn't notice it, but I noticed it. I heard myself, I could hear myself whispering to Dan, I'll cross behind you. Well, I mean, this is this kind of thing, but, but um, I don't, I, I know what the, I think the, you know, the possibilities are, are enormous because, uh, the freedom that it begins to allow a storyteller, as I sit here trying to distinguish between somebody who wants to show you something, And somebody who wants to put himself in the position of letting you discover something for yourself, the middle... I noticed, for example, in the...in this article on... There was a good review in yesterday's Tribune book review of the new Hemingway book by Plimpton. Plimton reviewed the Hemingways book. And he was talking about a conversation he'd had earlier, he plimped it in his head earlier with Hemingway several years ago in Cuba when he brought up this almost cliche probably now about the iceberg, you know, that the non-intensive it's under is not... But Hemingway gave a couple of really good examples in discussing the fishing for the Marlin, and he said, now I know how they breed, or how this hook is baited, so I don't have to put that in, but the fact that I know it shows, you know, it's knowledge, and the knowledge comes through with authority in the writing about what you do choose to write about. And in that sense, this is this kind of filming. Gives you the same, gives you that same discipline. I mean, it allows you to leave out and to benefit from the leaving out, and it strengthens. What I mean is, really, is that... Like any Hollywood character would say, you know, the story is everything, and in this case it's not the guys running it with piles of scripts. For a first look at it, it's the newspaper comes and the radio and look out the window. I mean, it's being able to perceive. That you can tell a certain story. I mean, I wouldn't have been able to three years ago even conceive of doing something like this Vietnam thing because even if, let's say the equipment was the same, which it was and it's better now, but even assuming it was and we were all as skillful in the physical side as we are now, the sensitivity to to a real story is the thing that's sort of why I think that the smarter we all get at knowing what we can film and how far you can go, it just keeps opening up, you know. I mean, I know Al used to talk about, he said he'd like to film a love story, a real, a real, you know, a really, and we used to, you really couldn't do that, even if you could settle with the privacy problem and everything else, just theoretically, and I still don't know if you could, but if one wanted to, I think, you, if you found","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141802/file/262375#t=31.23,289.2"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141802/file/262375/transcript/79516/annotation/4","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Why do you think you wouldn't be able to? Well, I don't know now.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141802/file/262375#t=289.15,292.05"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141802/file/262375/transcript/79516/annotation/5","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, I don't know now. You see, we didn't think you could film a war story. I mean, I think that under certain circumstances, if you have a... Something that people are pointing toward. If you have an event or a moment or a place, or something where people or forces are predictably going to converge. That, you know, allows you to have some handle to hold on to and you don't just flounder around. That's why I think this David film is important, because there we didn't have a scheduled event on the calendar, but we knew with pretty much certainty that within this next period of a week or so in this guy's life, just because of the way it is there, and the cases of other addicts who had the same thing, you see, with each one it's different, but the amount of time is roughly the same. So, so there we had this, we stumbled onto this thing without, which was two. To be able to predict not what was going to happen but roughly when something would happen and that if you if you know a person somehow through his talking to you or talking to others or or just revealing actions that if the audience is identifying or believing at least in the character than that. You can go further and another reason you can go further is because the characters that you're filming sense that you are patient and that you not that you don't have any idea in your head what's going to happen or how they should act you saw the chair and that young lawyer there's a perfect example of this wound up character who's wound up and he's wound-up, that's all and if you're able to get get some of that you know five percent of it it's uh it's it can be extraordinary when it works because you're seeing something that's really true and yet selected obviously i mean you select in the first place what you want to film so what do you think makes the I think the ability to see and hear at the same time is the critical thing. I think that many cameramen don't really listen, that they can't, it's just that they haven't really had to think in those terms, you know. Uh, their instincts are to shoot what they see, which is all you, when you happen to have pictures up there, you can't just have them. Uh, but I think now, for example, Flaherty, although he was shooting silent film, uh, obviously had that ability to, to listen as well as see, because there's a depth in some of those things that's, that could only come from this kind of involvement. That and patience, I mean, and a knowledge of editing all at once. I mean the reason that Leacock is, I think, still the best, I haven't seen anything he's shot, I haven' seen this Quinn Tuplitz film, so I can't comment that's the latest thing he's shot, but Ricky's work in the chair is just great because he... He has that patience that will allow you to watch a guy and sense that he's going to get up from his desk and go out the door but that he is going to come back in just to let it, let the camera keep running and wait and sometimes you run out of film, sometimes the guy doesn't come back and do anything but that's why we have to shoot a lot because It's not like you're waiting to pounce on somebody or you're waiting for them to pick their nose. I don't mean it in that but it's the question of uh of uh sort of reacting all over you know with the knowledge that well I give you a tiny example. I think that the Abbott's shooting in the swimming pool was great shooting. It's a single scene it's as good as any single scene that we've ever had in the film. And in the main scene, which is when he gets promoted and thrown in, and then this impossible thing happens, where the general pushes the major and then the major pulls the general. And to hold on that, and to hold, you know, and let it register each character, and then to come back and end, you could only have been done by a guy who was really thinking while he was shooting, and yet also had all of the f-stops and focuses and everything down to such an instinct that he doesn't even have to think about that. And the earlier scene actually has one of the, you don't notice it because it works. If it didn't happen, you would notice it where the dunking machine gets thrown in. And although it sinks sound, it's basically just noises. And there's a lot of splashing and they hit the guy on the head and he comes out and he pulls off his helmet and fiddles around in the water and all of a sudden he flips over on his back and says, So now I gotta get out of my stinking ship. And when you suddenly discover, I mean, the reality with the sync sound and the picture and everything flows from the start of the shot, into the water and out. When it's sudden, when that happens, I got a big kick out of it because it reveals itself. Uh, that's, I mean, not only does it say that it's real, but I mean it, it, uh, it's a- Well, it's, you know, if it didn't happen, if it had just been splash splash and then cut to something else, but the patience to hold and hold and hold and what would you say?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141802/file/262375#t=291.28,687.07"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141802/file/262375/transcript/79516/annotation/6","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e If you cut to something where you saw the guy saying, and now I'm going to get out of here. Well, I mean.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141802/file/262375#t=687.55,692.25"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141802/file/262375/transcript/79516/annotation/7","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, I mean, it just wouldn't have been as, maybe, see, maybe that, maybe he wouldn't, maybe didn't say anything, and if he hadn't, then you don't have it, but I mean the, just the question of, you know, what makes a good cameraman is illustrated in things like that, where... Where the guy has the guts to hold, to keep going and to not pan away or zoom in or something to make it more interesting, where he's allowing the scene to become interesting and if it doesn't become interesting","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141802/file/262375#t=691.75,728.68"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141802/file/262375/transcript/79516/annotation/8","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e I've heard some criticism in this marvelous scene in the chair where the lawyer gets the call from some high church official, you know, which looks like it's going to solve the case before it's started, and he starts to cry, you get the feeling he's crying there. I've heard some criticism saying that Ricky made a bad decision to zoom in so close and then have to pan away and move forward to the wastebasket or something like that. This would seem to indicate that the criticism is based on the fact that the judgment was wrong on the part of the camera as to what size frame he should have used. We think this is... Ah, the other is in.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141802/file/262375#t=731.53,776.72"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141802/file/262375/transcript/79516/annotation/9","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, there's another factor in that, which is the way we edited it. And also, as I recall, there was a camera run out at some point on the close-up. There was... I can't remember whether we actually had all the sync sound or whether... I know we have a long cutaway to the books and the picture of the judge on the wall and so forth. And I can't remember whether we had that picture to support all of the, I mean, the literal picture or not. It seems to me that we didn't, but I remember at the time that there was a, we wanted to, in a way it's kind of, there is a very private moment. And you don't want to leave the room, go somewhere else. You want the moment to run itself out.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141802/file/262375#t=778.46,834.35"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141802/file/262375/transcript/79516/annotation/10","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e The criticism I heard was that people felt that Vicki became too inquisitive at that moment, you know. He zoomed in on his face rather than holding back.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141802/file/262375#t=835.02,842.66"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141802/file/262375/transcript/79516/annotation/11","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, the effect of the way it comes out is that, in my mind anyway, when we first met this guy, you realize he's shy and young and eager and feels deeply. I mean, he has a picture of Lincoln on the wall and learning at hand and that at that moment when he kind of breaks down and It's just overwhelmed. There's something kind of eloquent about... Seeing the business of a lawyer at that moment, all those cases on that wall, every one of them contains probably a similar moment or moments, and the picture of the judge, I mean there was a feeling, an effort there, I remember purposely cutting that shot and going down the wall of books over to the window of the lawyer. Of there is a kind of where the picture is of making a comment of its own saying this is the lawyer this is not just law books and this is the lawyer here he is and and then it comes back to him on camera kind of wiping his eyes and finishing up and there I know specifically a lot of picture problem even now it's out of sync the battery was running down when he's when he ends up sort of throwing his hands against and Christ I don't even believe in God yeah the pictures flickering and everything else and I think that's a combination and there was there was a camera run out and everything else I don't know, I don' think Ricky, I think he did the right thing, and I think we did the right thing in cutting away, purposefully cutting away there, there's where you make a kind of decision and you try to make a comment, because just watching him cry, I matter of taste, I suppose, as to whether you're going to comment or just watch it. Well, in that, in there, it's another factor which is the business of how deeply into the privacy of a person, I mean, there's a moment of real emotion and, and somehow it seems more eloquent when you don't see it for a minute, you only hear it, and then you come back to it Whereas the racing driver, Eddie Sachs, when he cries on the pole, he cries at the beginning of the race when he's hearing my old, or my Indiana home plate on the loudspeaker and this is a moment he's lived for years and now he's driving in this big Indianapolis generation. He's sitting there putting on his helmet and they sing the song over the last speaker and he starts to cry. And the camera's in on him all the way, tight. And it's a different kind of emotion, and you don't feel that you're, I mean after all he's outdoors in a big public place, even though nobody's in that close on him, there's not the same feeling that there is in Don Moore's office when he cries for a whole different set of reasons. He's crying sort of for the goodness of a fellow man who would do such a great thing, and Eddie Sax is kind of crying for himself. There's a difference. I don't know, I'm always moved by the picture of the log books along the wall and out the window and this picture of this, the old tough judge who's been through a thousand of these, and you know, somehow, it's a... That's a different feeling. There's a difference, difference of degree of privacy there.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141802/file/262375#t=843.93,1081.99"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141802/file/262375/transcript/79516/annotation/12","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e One other question. What seems to be... Some of the prime differences between, outside of just different choices in the camera angle between you and Maisel's stuff, is the fact that you use several cameras and therefore you use a lot of editing in a scene, taken from different angles. While the sound continues, it holds it together in the courtroom during the chair, where the picture is making a kind of comment in a way, or at least revealing other aspects. Al's point of view, I think, is that he feels that to retain the truth, he needs to maintain a point of view of one camera that somehow, all of a sudden, you show a completely different angle. You have somehow violated space relationships and the relationship of authenticity or the effective authenticity.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141802/file/262375#t=1082.55,1148.61"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141802/file/262375/transcript/79516/annotation/13","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e Well I don't, number one, let's say that you do use one camera and often that's all we can afford or can get into a situation where that's screwing it up. Even using one camera, there are times when I think you have to cut from picture A to picture B, even if they're both made by the same camera, seconds apart, for pacing. In other words, if you go from a wide shot, zoom in, focus, and then have a close-up. I don't see any reason in keeping the zoom and the focusing in, unless it's so critical because of the sync sound that the lips are never stopping or something, in which case I would keep it in. They would maintain what he's talking about, which is the integrity of his theme. But I don't... I don't, I have no qualms about cutting the zooming and the focusing out or cutting from angle to angle. If the, I mean for example in the Cinnanon film we had an extraordinary condition of people being so unnoticing because they've got their own problems that we shot several very... Very tight intimate scenes and there's one in particular that is one of these synonym sessions that lasts for about 15 minutes. We shot the whole thing with two cameras and in some shots you can see the other camera shooting which is fine I don't care if you see the camera because the camera is such a part of that moment that you can cut from a guy in the middle of a sentence making a point to the other side and you see other people in relation to and uh... In a way, that makes a comment, that is, if you suddenly see a different person in the foreground than you did in the other shot. But the main reason, the thing it does to me, is it keeps the scene visually exciting.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141802/file/262375#t=1150.34,1268.26"}]},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141802/file/262375/transcript/79516","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["English [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141802/file/262375/transcript/79516/annotation/14","type":"Annotation","motivation":"subtitling","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/file_transcripts/associated_files/000/079/516/original/trint_Coll458_jb0053_Shuker_02_transcript.vtt?1747070198","format":"text/vtt","language":"en"},"target":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/file_transcripts/associated_files/000/079/516/original/trint_Coll458_jb0053_Shuker_02_transcript.vtt?1747070198"}]}]}]}