{"@context":"http://iiif.io/api/presentation/3/context.json","id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/iiif/v40js9k90r/manifest","type":"Manifest","label":{"en":["Interview with Ralph Steiner, Part II [sound cassette], 1973 July"]},"logo":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/029/original/uo-logo-hires.png?1580744881","metadata":[{"label":{"en":["Description"]},"value":{"en":["1 sound cassette : 1.875 ips, stereo (Physdesc)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Format"]},"value":{"en":["1 sound cassette(s) (analog)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Identifier"]},"value":{"en":["Coll 458 (Collection Call Number)","JB0055 (Digital Object ID)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Date"]},"value":{"en":["1973-07 (Creation)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Source Metadata URI"]},"value":{"en":["https://scua.uoregon.edu/repositories/2/archival_objects/345428"]}},{"label":{"en":["Agent"]},"value":{"en":["Steiner, Ralph, 1899-1986"]}}],"summary":{"en":["1 sound cassette : 1.875 ips, stereo"]},"provider":[{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/aboutus","type":"Agent","label":{"en":["University of Oregon Libraries"]},"homepage":[{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/","type":"Text","label":{"en":["University of Oregon Libraries"]},"format":"text/html"}],"logo":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/029/original/uo-logo-hires.png?1580744881","type":"Image"}]}],"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/public/images/audio-default.png","type":"Image","format":"image/png"}],"items":[{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141804/file/262378","type":"Canvas","label":{"en":["Media File 1 of 2 - Coll458_jb0055_Steiner_01.mp3"]},"duration":2884.75429,"width":640,"height":360,"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/public/images/audio-default.png","type":"Image","format":"image/png"}],"items":[{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141804/file/262378/content/1","type":"AnnotationPage","items":[{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141804/file/262378/content/1/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"painting","body":{"id":"https://aviary-p-universityoforegonlibraries.s3.wasabisys.com/collection_resource_files/resource_files/000/262/378/original/Coll458_jb0055_Steiner_01.mp3?1739226779","type":"Audio","format":"audio/mpeg","duration":2884.75429,"width":640,"height":360},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141804/file/262378","metadata":[]}]}],"annotations":[{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141804/file/262378/transcript/76719","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["AUTO_TRINT_Coll458_jb0055_Steiner_01.mp3 [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141804/file/262378/transcript/76719/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e You know, it's one of those. There's another one. Funny stories. Now whatever you. Well, there was a story about again, I can't remember his name. There were these the two brothers. One was a wonderful director and the other was a producer. Sam. Oh, dear. Oh, her. Mankiewicz. Mankiewicz. Herman. You know, Herman was the producer, and Herman was a brilliant man. He was a big article about him recently. He was the man who really wrote for Orson Welles the script of Citizen Kane. Citizen Kane and Orson Welles offered to pay him a quarter of $1 million to have his name taken off of it to bribe him not to use his name. And they wouldn't, because this is the only thing in all his years he had ever done that was good. Well, he was a really brilliant, clever, funny man and. Really very witty, but a drunkard and a violent man. A gambler and wasted his life. Great talent to make crappy films, you know. Big shot producer made. And he did anything because he wasn't serious. And. The two brothers bring their Jewish mama from the Bronx and set her up in a big house in Beverly Hills with a maid and everything. One day, Herman comes in and sailor's cap and white checkered, no blue jacket with gold buttons and white pants and white shoes. You all know this story. Oh, it's a story that can be used for for various purposes useful in your life. And he says, look, mama, I bought a yacht. I'm a captain. Oh, you know, that's. It's a well, it's a useful one. And that is it's the same story. It's the same story over there. She said. Herman. But the boys you play poker with. They're a couple, Herman. But the people who work for you in the studio, you're a couple. You, Herman, by me, are a couple. But Herman, by a real captain, you know, kept popping up. And he was the man that came home one day from his doctor and said to his wife, well, they're going to put me in the nuthouse. She said, what do you mean? He said, well, I've signed a paper and I'm going to be confined for two months. And she started to cry, and he said, look, I'll get dried out. I've been drinking too much. I'm overweight. I haven't done any work for the studio and God knows how long I'll take a loan. A lot of scripts and a lot of work to do. You know, get some exercise and lose 40 pounds. It will do me good. You can come and visit me. But my doctor said unless you sign this paper, I'm not gonna have anything to do with you. You're in a terrible state. You're going to die. So his wife said, well, I think you're right. It would do your best. So she said, I'll help you pack. So they got out the suitcases. She said, what should I pack? So my my admiral's hat and I turned. Sort. Of course. And I remember one night being at the home of IRA Gershwin. That's the brother of the Gershwin wrote. He wrote the words, and This is Gershwin told us a wonderful story, that she was taking her maid down in a little British car from their house, way up in the mountain down to Sunset Boulevard, and Herman crashed on the roof. It was drunk and really damaged her, but damaged her maid very severely. And he lost his driving license for one year. And she said one night she was having a party and the maid came. The phone, said, there's a crazy man on the phone, absolutely demands to talk to you. And she said, I'm like, I guess here, I'm eating dinner with them. She said, tell him I'll call him back. And she said, It's Mr. Mankiewicz, he must talk to you. She went to the phone. He said, This is Herman. My is up Strauss the goddamn road. Well, enough of that. I got a job. Through my lawyer friend at RKO as a producer. There's nothing higher than a producer. About what time? Well, this is about 47. And there was a banker friend of mine, lawyer friends, who was in charge of RKO. And his job was to keep the thing afloat because it almost gone into bankruptcy. So I found I was just dumped there. I don't know how to be a producer. I was given an office of secretary. What the hell did I need? The secretary. You know, I could. The two letters I wrote every month, I could take myself. So I found some things I wanted to do. And two of them I think might have made interesting films. I bought an option on Albert Malta's short story called Evening in Modesto, because I wanted to do something with a documentary film. Modesto is in the in the desert, the desert, which has been irrigated between San Francisco and Los Angeles. And I went up there with a writer and we took pictures. And there was some wonderful, some terrible, marvelous documentary background stuff we could have gotten. It was a very interesting story. Even though Albert Necker was not radical, it was just a human wonderful, wonderful story. And finally, when the Hollywood Ten were driven out of Hollywood, I was told the weather was bad and we couldn't make the film. And at first I didn't know what that meant. But the political weather was bad. But I was not going to make any film written by Albert Moths, no matter what kind of a story it was. And then I found a writer, a humorous writer, a lovely, lovely person who's done some films in the past, not important films. And I have found in the history of San Francisco something which I still think today. If we could have done it modestly. I thought of modest films, only inexpensive films. That was the way I sold myself to the studio. Some of these make a film the Kolstad, the what? Those days, Westerns cost 100 $150,000. Using fine actors but making art films. Well, I found that the studio was going to make a film about San Francisco in the 1890s and very early 1900s, and I thought of using the sets from this to make a film about the man who is Emperor of the United States. There was a man called Northam. I forget what his last name was. He was a very influential. Dealer in rice and imported products. People in San Francisco were the people who made the contact with the Orient. And he got a not a very nice idea. There had been problems with growing rice in China and storms at sea, and there was very little rice to feed the Chinese. Laborers who were working on the railroads. And he tried to corner the rice market, which is not the nicest thing to do. And the storms abated, and a great number of ships came in from China with lots of rice. And he was broke, and nobody would help him financially. Its friends wouldn't help him, and he disappeared for about 5 or 10 years, and he came back and he was out of his mind. He had an admiral's uniform, a cocktail and a wonderful uniform, and he called himself Norton, the first emperor of the United States. And by the grace of God, protector of Mexico. And he became a friend of heart. Not hard cream, but oh, what was his name? The writer at the time, not heart print. Stephen Crane, who was a newspaperman and of 2 or 3 other minor American writers who were in San Francisco at the time, and of of Mark Twain. And they used to let him print his official documents in the newspaper. And I think San Francisco, who still won't let them do away with the cable cars even though they're not efficient. Expensive. Who want to retain a sense of extra ness in their city, which no other city has. They want San Francisco to still say San Francisco. And I think they were ashamed of themselves for not having helped him. But also, he was a romantic figure, so nobody made fun of him. He had a royal box, and when he came into the theater, they played his anthem and everyone stood. Well, it's funny, but it's very nice. It's very, very lovely. And the stores where he came in and wanted to get a new uniform or a hat or sword would give it to him for nothing and print a signed purveyor to His Majesty Norton the first. And he issued you cases, or. I don't know how to pronounce the Russian word which the Emperor of Russia used. And he he. Well, he must have lived earlier because he ended the Civil War and he was going to pay all the slave owners for the price of their slaves and find a new way for them to earn a living down there. He deposed Abraham Lincoln and proposed marriage to Queen Victoria, and he would ensure these things. And of course, this made good news, you know, and they printed them straight, and he would end them always in the same way given under my hand this first day of October and the era of our Lord so-and-so Morton, the first Emperor of the United States, by the grace of God, protector of Mexico. Nuff said. Shall not send for a child. He would give the Lady of Flower and the child of candy, and he became a kind of a newsagent. He would come and report to the importers what news there was of ships coming in or leaving and so forth. And he got in return for this taxes, this taxes. And he lived very simply. So it didn't cost them much, you know, $5 a month for out of each of these rich people. Yeah. Yes. Cool. Yeah. And I still think today that this could have been a lovely film, one that would be remembered to this day as something, you know, not great, not gone with the wind, but, I mean, and then we just then we would have had a problem finding a actor to play Norton. Do you know how it was going to end? This was a great problem, and I'm not sure that we solved it for them. That's. That was a problem, I see, said. And yes. Well, there's a beautiful big grave stone given by the citizens of San Francisco. And it says Norton, the first stone there. I can't remember his last name. It gives his last, last name also. I think one of the things the writer and I decided writer and I had a wonderful time doing this together, and he's still a great friend of mine. I think we decided that it was stupid to have a great, extensive, serious plot. He wasn't going to change the world or to abolish poverty or cure cancer. And I think, I think the problem of the film, you always had to have a problem in those days, you know, it was very small. And he solves it in a typical way of that was kind of delightful and not the way anybody would have thought of, I don't know, there was some kind of a big celebration in San Francisco Cisco with fireworks and gaiety. And all that. And I think we used. You remember in one of Mark Twain's books about the the sun. You. Oh, none. Modern man in the court of King Arthur. You remember the man predicts a what you might call on the sun. What? An eclipse. Eclipse? And it happened. So that makes him a great, great man. We had something that was very mild like that, but was very decorative and slightly loony, you know. Well, so somewhere I have a piece of paper which says I'm a producer. Dorie Sherry, who became head executive head of RKO, hated the idea. Norton film. And so I left for New York. I came back to New York and started a again, a rather casting studio with one assistant and. Made the best of it. Made some money and gradually.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141804/file/262378#t=6.27,906.37"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141804/file/262378/transcript/76719/annotation/2","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e You were doing just still work.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141804/file/262378#t=907.81,908.77"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141804/file/262378/transcript/76719/annotation/3","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah. Yeah. No. No films. Hi. I don't know, I hadn't I think Hollywood was just terrible for me. If ever you get a job being. It's very big and fancy and you're a photographer or a bricklayer, for Christ's sake, lay some bricks or take some pictures. Keep good. Keep getting your hands dirty. I have a friend who's got a job, who's a lovely photographer who got a big job in TV and I said, please keep taking pictures. Please keep taking pictures. Don't be 100% executive. Take pictures of children. You're wonderful, of taking pictures of children. You wish? No, he heard he's out of TV. Or the only thing I ever did to earn money in my life that was painless, wasn't frightful, was doing public relations photographs. You don't earn as much money, but you can at least have some dignity. You can do pictures, which makes some sense. You know, I'd go into a factory, do what they do. Well, I would find things like that. For instance, if I once went into a glass factory and I found that all these people were bohemians, because in Bohemia there's this whole section of Bohemia where they're glassblowers, Bohemian glassblowers, and their grandfathers have been glassblowers. And here their sons, who are now Americans on the basketball team, were glassblower. And one of them could still blow those glass boards with flowers inside. So let me film this. This is so this shows that these people aren't just working for a $100 salary a week. They're glassblowers, you know, this is like a brain surgeon is a brain surgeon. You know, he does it for nothing, or he does it for $100,000. But he's a brain surgeon, you know. That's what he is. You know, I try to find things like that, and. And in advertising, there's so much competition. And in public relations, there's so much idiocy. The trade papers are so happy to have pictures about something that are halfway decently made, that they bless you when you bring them in. They don't say how much you're going to pay me for running these. I say we'll give you a cover in eight pages. The art director is your friend. And this was from doing advertising, which was really frightful, just destructive. Oh, I don't know anybody except Steichen who ever did advertising. It wasn't destroyed as a human being. Those great names in advertising, Mary 140 pound model after another and buy one Jaguar after another. You know, it gets a scratch on the rear bumper. They have to have a new Jaguar. And they all have heart attacks. They're ulcers. It's it stinks. The insecurity of it stinks. But public relations, it was calm and pleasant. My clients loved me. The people I showed the pictures to random love names just for their.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141804/file/262378#t=909.34,1115.89"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141804/file/262378/transcript/76719/annotation/4","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Any particular Pictures that you can remember that we might have run on to, or could remember that you did in that during that period.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141804/file/262378#t=1116.4,1125.08"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141804/file/262378/transcript/76719/annotation/5","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e These weren't films. These were still pleasures. Yes. I doubt if these were all in trade papers. And I got so I could write the articles myself. That's why I tell young photographers, don't get in the rat race either. Travel and photograph and write articles. Oh. Oh, sorry. I write or learn to write or do something else besides being a photographer. I see you just put the person photographing when somebody tells you to photograph. It's the same thing as making a film for industrial client. It's it's not conducive to digestion and it really isn't. Well, finally. I decided that the studio was I gave up the studio and I got a job working 2 or 3 days a month. I've been lucky. I've been slightly shrewd 3 or 4 times in my life. I've had jobs where in three days a month, I could earn enough living for the rest of the month. I once worked on a woman's magazine. I got to be the photographer who said, I quote, this could put more. It may appeal into a food picture than any other food photographer living or in New York. Living in New York. Yes, sir. And so I got a job in a women's magazine, which doesn't exist anymore that delineated. And then three days a month, I earned enough for one month. And then I got a job doing public relations photography and writing the copy for a pharmaceutical company. And it's very funny. I was public relations, and I had a president who worked with me because he loved mixing in this, who was the most reactionary man, but very sweet, but terribly reactionary. And he'd tell me to write something and say I couldn't write it. You write it. I mean, you believe in it. I think that's a terrible idea. Just terrible. I'm a I'm a communist. I'm a I'm a radical. You know, you're right. It. Well, for instance, at one time, they federal drug people closed down an enormous number of people who made drugs in their garages, had one pill making machine, and they had no PhDs to tell them how to do it. When they got a job, they often do it badly. They put in too much chemical or too little. There was somebody, three brothers in New York or in Long Island City, and one of them went to jail and the other committed suicide because they did something so frightful, so terrible, I don't know, they killed a lot of people. Men, men develop bosoms, you know, real enormous bosoms with this chemical. You know, it's just frightful. And so they have Federal drug people clamp down on all these people. And my boss said, write an article against this. And I said, you're out of your mind. We have PhDs. We are so ethical. This is good for our business. This is wonderful for us because we're a good company. Everything is so clean and spotless here. We do things so beautifully. That's good for us, he said. But government should not interfere in industry. I said, all right, you read it. You know.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141804/file/262378#t=1126.16,1322.99"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141804/file/262378/transcript/76719/annotation/6","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Which company with us.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141804/file/262378#t=1324.34,1325.06"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141804/file/262378/transcript/76719/annotation/7","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e Or you wouldn't hear of it. It wasn't. It was a company that what they call customer drugs. If you were a drug distributor, we made things and put your brand name on it. It's not known to the public at all because we never advertised. Oh. Running out. Yeah. But it was a lovely job and I got paid very well. And at 27 days a month to do my own stuff, you know. He's got that thing turning too fast anyhow for a voice. And do it a one and 7/8 wasting tape. Sorry, I have no voice. Call it. Anyhow, I sound like mush on my on my films whenever I talk. Well, so I had this thing which kept me going. So I started to make films again, and using my own money a little bit. And then I got a grant from the National Endowment for the Arts, on the Arts, and from the Carnegie Corporation. People asked me how you do this. All sorts of filmmakers ask me, how do you get a grant? And I say, you write something about six pages, and every other sentence has to have the word educational in it. And. Then you have that memory of graph, and you take it to the top of the Empire State Building on a windy day, and you throw it out hoping, and then you go to a church and pray that some body will flourish. It's almost that you try every foundation there is. There's a great thick book like that. It tells the name and address of every foundation and what they do. And you go through that. And I got my money from the National Endowment from the Arts, really due only to my own talent and efforts. I had a friend named Elia Kazan who worked on two films with me. I know when he got out of college and I. His nickname is Gej because he was the prop prop man and in college. And so the he was called gadget. Then he became Gargash and I called him up and I said, Gege, you are a friend of the man who happens to be the head of the National Endowment on the Arts. This could not do me any harm at all. Would you come and see the city which I have worked on? I'll show you what sequence is. So he came to the Museum of Modern Art. Saw the city, and he said, I will write a letter. And then the next day he called me up and said, Ralph, the damnedest thing happened. He said, I came out of my office on Broadway, and there was this man who was the head of the National Endowment for the Arts. And I said, what are you doing? You're going to eat lunch with him. I said, no, let's have lunch together. He said, that's good, because I wrote, I'm going to write you a letter, and I'll tell you, I want you to give some money to Ralph. Steiner is a friend of mine. He's a great filmmaker, and so it's best to have a friend who's in the National Endowment, a friend of a friend, say, that's what I got. And I got money from the Carnegie Foundation because it was a woman whose job it was to find out she traveled around if a college applied for money for a grant for a project, she traveled to investigate it to that place, and then we'd go back and report. And she loved films. She still loves film. So she talked to me about it. Oh, no. Thanks. No. I talked to her about filmmaking, and she said, well, we certainly aren't going to give you any money. That's not what the what the Carnegie does. So when I called her up and I said, gee, where's I got $15,000, you know, all aglow from the National Endowment for the Arts. She said $15,000. What are you going to do with $15,000? That ought to be ashamed of themselves. She was in a rage. She said, would you mind if I applied in your name for for a matching grant from the Carnegie? I'm a terribly nice fellow. I let her. I let her apply for another 15,000. You know you have. If you're going to apply, you have to have a warm heart, you know, and somebody is going to apply for money for you. You have to let them. So I did. She got it. So I had $30,000. And to me, that I thought that would last 100 years, you know. When was this? This was about five years ago, when I got a couple of minuscule grants from the Vermont Council on the Arts to do specific jobs, to put music on an experimental kind of a film, which you'll see tonight. But they have no money. The whole state of Vermont has less money than Brooklyn gets for money. So if you say nothing of Manhattan.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141804/file/262378#t=1325.6,1620.47"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141804/file/262378/transcript/76719/annotation/8","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e So which films did you work on? I'm not sure.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141804/file/262378#t=1621.76,1624.16"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141804/file/262378/transcript/76719/annotation/9","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e All of the ones I've made, I've made are the ones you did one, two, three, 4 or 5, six, seven, some films, and I'm halfway through an eight. Oh, well, I just had promised me a little more money at a very low 2500 bucks to put music on a film.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141804/file/262378#t=1624.85,1642.76"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141804/file/262378/transcript/76719/annotation/10","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e So those films, those eight films include glory, glory.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141804/file/262378#t=1644.14,1647.53"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141804/file/262378/transcript/76719/annotation/11","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah. You know. Yes. But it costs less up in Vermont. You know, I had one film, the laundry film. I had music written for it. Ten minute film. And we went to a studio, small studio, and put the music on with four musicians. I was going to say nonunion. I don't know if they were union or nonunion, because you stay out of that mess. That's terrible. And, you know, it's very costly. It cost only about $3,000 for the composer, director and for the people and for the recording and everything, you know. And that was very little. But for ten minutes, you know, writing all those notes, that's for ten minutes of film. That's that guy stayed in that room for one month. So it's worth $1,000 to pay. But now I do it up near at Dartmouth, and I get people in the music department who I pay them $25 and they would gladly do it for nothing. One man on this from glory, glory wouldn't take a nickel. He did it all on a on a moog synthesizer and was just so happy. And the store Dartmouth has a marvelous recording studio with two recording people, and I think in a two hour session, they did a lot of rerecording and cut out the bad parts and put a new one. I think it cost me $9.75. I was in New York and, you know, in New York, most costs depend on TV and TV. Nobody cares. That's the agent. Advertising agency doesn't care. And the client, well, it's $5,000 for the music for a one minute thing, you know, in relation to his yearly advertising costs, it's nothing. It's absolutely nothing. So. And also I found a wonderful thing to do. I tried to get a piece of music for glory glory, and I wrote to RCA, and they want me to sign a contract with the Musicians Union, which you promised to give them your tender for the next 25 years. Your half your house, the front half of your house. Oh, it's just the craziest thing I've ever seen. For the rest of your life, you may never use a nonunion musician. It goes on page after page after page, and I would have to get the written consent of the orchestra and the chorus. There must have been 40 people in the orchestra and 50 people in the chorus, and they've all been done three years before. So now what I do is I print my hand and I don't say I'm a high school student in my first year in high school, I say, my name is Ralph Steiner. I am interested in experimental films, which I make very inexpensively. All right. I would like to use the music from your record. And I could pay you $10 at the very most. Then I got back a letter saying, if you use one minute, that would be 25 or $50, which I can very well.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141804/file/262378#t=1647.98,1842.99"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141804/file/262378/transcript/76719/annotation/12","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e So that's a very good way to do it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141804/file/262378#t=1843.46,1845.75"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141804/file/262378/transcript/76719/annotation/13","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah. Don't say you're a high school public school student.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141804/file/262378#t=1846.1,1850.34"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141804/file/262378/transcript/76719/annotation/14","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e So that's where you're at now finishing up your last great job.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141804/file/262378#t=1854.42,1858.55"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141804/file/262378/transcript/76719/annotation/15","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, I have about half life one year. I'm going to do an introduction to it. And the man who wrote music for two of my films, which you'll hear tonight, is going to do something quite interesting on life, but I think I'll talk about that when we show the light film. I don't know whether you people are interested in music on film. When I was at the Flaherty or this composer came up and I showed films and we showed part of the city showing what Copeland did. To do music in opposition to what was happening on the screen. People always talking about this, but they never give you a very good example. And then in the city, there's a wonderful, wonderful example where people leave the city on a Sunday.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141804/file/262378#t=1859.82,1904.1"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141804/file/262378/transcript/76719/annotation/16","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e And how is that music an opposition?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141804/file/262378#t=1905.42,1907.58"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141804/file/262378/transcript/76719/annotation/17","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e Oh, well, when they leave the city, they're all in cars going to the country. And just before. Well, before that in the metropolis thing, everything's been fast, fast, fast. The music faster and faster and faster. And suddenly you see Sunday in New York and there's not a sound except a church bell tolling Trinity Church down at the end of Wall Street. And you hear this church bell and you don't see a soul. And then you the next very short cut to the country. And these cars are going to the country as long lines of cars, and Copland did a very catchy little tune. Dum dum dum dum dum dum dum dum dum dum dum. It's very cute. And it goes on and on very, very fast, going faster and faster and faster and faster. And finally, there's a whole sequence where traffic is absolutely stopped and horns get stuck and blow and children are crying, people are eating lunch on the side of the road, but everything is just, you know, their whole weekend is ruined and the life is absolutely impossible. And instead of having the music stop, you tell our composer I would stop and go. The music is going faster and faster and faster, which makes the stoppage more of a stoppage. Brilliant. Absolutely brilliant. It's just great. I wish you could have heard this composer. He is a very quiet man, but very interesting. Well, I guess that's it. Unless people have deep. Yeah, eternal questions, which I can't answer. What films did you work on with clients and with what answers? Oh, two of them. The film, the one about the people of the Cumberland Mountain, this this labor school in the Cumberland Mountains, people of the Cumberland and of the film. Well, three films, a film on the city dump. That's pie in the sky. And then this film with a group theater. He was one of the leading actors. And then, Mr. Steiger, you indicated in your discussion earlier that you felt there was something basically wrong with the way film and media courses are being taught in high schools and colleges today. I wonder if you could expand on that a little. Oh, no. Oh, no. I've written 20 pages, and I told Walter Van Dike, and he said, one big premise has to be removed from there, and so I have to do that. I would love if you give me a piece of paper and write down on it what you want and your address, I will mail. I'm going to get it mimeographed and mail it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141804/file/262378#t=1908.69,2081.969"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141804/file/262378/transcript/76719/annotation/18","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e It would be interesting if you could make a comment though about what? Your ideas.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141804/file/262378#t=2082.239,2085.42"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141804/file/262378/transcript/76719/annotation/19","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e Oh well, there's a I once was sent by the Carnegie Foundation to. A prep school. Andover. And there was a man on hand over who was head of the museum and head of the art department, was a real New Englander and was told by the headmaster to teach art. So he taught art history for two years, and he went to headmaster and said characteristically no more headmaster said were not. And he said nothing stuck. I'm going to teach people to see. Open their eyes to sing. And they developed a program in combination with the English department, which just absolutely floored me. I had seen what the Yale School of Art photographic students do under. Well, I watched as his name under great people. I've seen what people do all over the country because I've gone and lectured and these high school kids made monkeys out of these art people. But to talk about that would be half an hour. What he had done, the experiments they did. Made such good sense. And these kids took photographs of each other and the things they saw, which were expressions of a high school age student that were real and true and simple and unambitious and ostentatious, that were so decent but so revealing. They were. Some of them were. Don't me ask you no real penetrating because you weren't asking them to do hard or impressive. You were just saying, what do you how do you see it? Make me a photograph the way you see this thing. And they developed all sorts of exercise to break down this whole concept of I am an artist now. I'm ceasing to be Joe Smith, and now I'm taking on the job of being an artist and a creator because they said, how does Joe Smith see his woman now? Were wonderful, humorous or serious? Marvelous, simple documents and things have documented around them. But that's a whole thing. And I bring in the kind of things I did when I talked to Sarah Lawrence, girl and so forth. I think you should teach filmmaking or still photography, not to make filmmakers that should be left for Willard Van Dike in his place, which has. I think, $750,000 worth of film equipment. That's where they can compete with a Moscow film school or the Yugoslav film school and teach people to be filmmakers, the way you teach medical students to be doctors. But in the Woodstock, Vermont high school, nobody's gonna come out of the Woodstock High school a filmmaker. Maybe someday we'll go to Europe and take along a movie camera. Super four or super two millimeter. You know, but to teach it for that is insane. I mean, the cost of filmmaking is so enormous. So. You know, it's like teaching medicine. And nobody in the place is going to be a doctor when you get through. That's crazy. So what do you teach it for? What do you teach it to? Open people's sensitivity to feeling. Because this is what we live by, our feelings. So the closeness to seeing, to hearing music. To reading this literature will become a richness in your life. So you open yourself to this and this. You can teach through teaching. The great teachers of literature have done this. The great teachers of music that was a great teacher of New England. And they said, education is whatever his name was, sitting on one end of a log and you sitting on the other. The great. There were some great people at Harvard in the past age who taught literature? Copland, the great name, you know. And when you took his course the rest of your life, you came home from a bad day at the office. You read. And this was a joy the rest of your life. But nobody sees anything. Nobody gets pleasure from seeing anything. We're all rushing around. Who feels what. You know we don't take time. I'll give you a quote here which boils down. No. Saul Bellow was Saul Bellow. I think most of the writers today, in Jewish moments and all that stuff. Saul Bellow, for me, is a serious, serious man. Quote. Here is a verbal quote. So it is not well written, I think. I wonder if there will ever be enough tranquility under modern modern circumstances. To allow our modern Wordsworth to recollect anything. I feel that art has something to do with the achievement of stillness in the midst of chaos, a stillness which characterizes prayer, too, and the eye of the storm. I think that art has something to do with the rest of attention in the midst of distraction. This, I think, is the basis of the film I want to make, which is going to be a funny film, but it's going to be the basis and the basis of why. Film should be taught. Slow down. Learn to hear. Learn to see. Learn to put your feeling down. If I taught a film course, they would make one minute films. Not about subjects, but on feelings make up. You would listen to little bits of music and they could pick whatever piece of music, whatever section of one minute music they wanted. Gay dancing, sad or a minor key or whatever. They'll go out and make a film that has that feeling in it. Because that's what filmmaking is. Any idiot can point a camera at this microphone or this cut and shoot it, and then splice it to a film. This a film about this. But I see no films with feeling. That's that's dishonest. But student films, I see stunts, cop outs. I saw Dartmouth Film School years ago, and I know some of those students, and I know the teacher, and they're good people. There's one student that's. He takes still photographs. He's an angel. He's an angel sent by God. It's so beautiful. And he made a clever cup of film. It's so clever. Makes me sick. And everybody laughed. Enjoyed his cleverness. I said, you ought to be ashamed of yourself for a man like you. This is not what a man does. This is what a child does. One girl made a film copy with college students. That was the seventh seal. All done in 20 minutes. Jesus Christ almighty. Who wants to do follow? You know Bergman. I'm going to make a copy of Bergman. Am I crazy? Who I. You know who wants to go in competition with Bergman? You're crazy. What idiocy. It was just awful. I don't think she'll learn anything. I don't think she'll be a more open person. Open to her feelings or open to other people as a result of it. And.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141804/file/262378#t=2086.26,2597.93"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141804/file/262378/transcript/76719/annotation/20","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e What you've mentioned already two exercises that might be used to open people up. One was looking at things of that and saying what it reminded you of, what it seemed like, what you did a long time ago. So there was the exercise of listening to music and getting that feeling into a picture. You would take what might be another for film or teaching, from making it to high school. Or college?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141804/file/262378#t=2601.55,2628.73"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141804/file/262378/transcript/76719/annotation/21","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e The music thing is good. Learning to write. Put down what you what you get out of a thing, you know. Just. I could think of a one minute film about a man. What is a person that you know? Like, you know, Prince, the way you're asking me that question now. The seriousness, the importance of your question to me is part of you. And if I wanted to make a film, a one minute film about you, I would say, by God, when he asks a good question, he cares about the answer is a serious man. You have humor, but that doesn't mean you don't care. You care desperately and say, I would want to do that. And I would make people say, well, if you're not a port saint, he gives a damn about the world. He gives a damn about his for his friends. I'm going to make a film about his character, or I'm going to say, I'm sorry, he's a butterfly, and I'm going to make a one minute film about the fact that he's a butterfly. Maybe people should make a film about themselves. And another thing about unity. I see so many films that are shooting off in all directions. I have to, because I don't let my films be projected on automatic projectors for high school kids. And they get cut inside here and here in Europe, so that the annual meeting of the Vermont Council on the Arts, I said, I'll tell you what I'll do. I'll bring my projector, you know, and I'll project for all the people they want to show the Vermont Council. All the people that belong to it. What films have been made with their money? So I said, our projector said to other people. I said, fine, I'll show their films for them and they'll be shown nicely. So we showed films and I'm, you know, reactionary. You know, I believe in Nixon and Wall Street. Money matters. That's the only thing that counts in the world. Come on, you know, and old folk and I saw a lot of Crazy goddamn films they're made by, you know, people with long hair and beards even, you know. Yeah. You know, they were just terrible. But I saw one made by a group of hippies that I rejoiced in. It had unity, and it was so wonderful. And it was called Fly like an airplane or something like that. And these hippies on a weekend had made a glider, small glider out of aluminum pipe and cloth, and they went out on a beautiful spring day on a hill where there were flowers and grass, and somebody had written a lovely little tune about how marvelous it would be to float in the air like birds. So one guy gets inside this thing and the other guys study it and they run downhill. These people are, you know, haven't washed, you know, and they know they're great. You know, they can't read Plato on their vacation. You know, they don't belong to a church, you know, and off, you know. And this lovely song they try. They don't get off the ground. There's not enough wind. So they come back and try again. And then somebody get some idea. Two of them stick up in their little American flag. So they get mad and they take off the flags and they put them down the metro. And that doesn't help, but they still don't get off. And so they put the flags back. And finally a little breeze comes up. They see a breeze. And they run with a guy and he sails. Not high. As high as this. It's faded this far off the ground. If he pulls his feet up. And the whole film was just. It had no progression except from failure to success. And this lovely music and their idea about if we could only fly like a bird. And these people were so objectionable, you know, they they, you know, they weren't upper class or anything. And I loved all of them. I just loved my film.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141804/file/262378#t=2629.87,2880.04"}]},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141804/file/262378/transcript/76719","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["English [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141804/file/262378/transcript/76719/annotation/22","type":"Annotation","motivation":"subtitling","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/file_transcripts/associated_files/000/076/719/original/trint_Coll458_jb0055_Steiner_01_transcript.vtt?1740615420","format":"text/vtt","language":"en"},"target":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/file_transcripts/associated_files/000/076/719/original/trint_Coll458_jb0055_Steiner_01_transcript.vtt?1740615420"}]}]},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141804/file/262379","type":"Canvas","label":{"en":["Media File 2 of 2 - Coll458_jb0055_Steiner_02.mp3"]},"duration":3667.87918,"width":640,"height":360,"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/public/images/audio-default.png","type":"Image","format":"image/png"}],"items":[{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141804/file/262379/content/1","type":"AnnotationPage","items":[{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141804/file/262379/content/2/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"painting","body":{"id":"https://aviary-p-universityoforegonlibraries.s3.wasabisys.com/collection_resource_files/resource_files/000/262/379/original/Coll458_jb0055_Steiner_02.mp3?1739226785","type":"Audio","format":"audio/mpeg","duration":3667.87918,"width":640,"height":360},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141804/file/262379","metadata":[]}]}],"annotations":[{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141804/file/262379/transcript/79620","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["AUTO_TRINT_Coll458_jb0055_Steiner_02.mp3 [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141804/file/262379/transcript/79620/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e Uh, and they said yes, that word poetry, we were not making a legal document, that word meant one thing to us and something else for them, especially to a man who might lose his job if the film, if the president whom I'd never met didn't like the film he had approved.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141804/file/262379#t=7.39,23.53"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141804/file/262379/transcript/79620/annotation/2","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e On the city then, you said you had such trouble, but finally they were, they accepted. Once you were able then to get reviews of the picture before it was...","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141804/file/262379#t=27.49,39.64"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141804/file/262379/transcript/79620/annotation/3","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e No. Well, as a, yeah, we were able to get reviews. They gave a big public, you know, critics.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141804/file/262379#t=41.15,46.75"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141804/file/262379/transcript/79620/annotation/4","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e But I was wondering how you got it past, if they thought you had ruined them, how they ever let it see the light of day.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141804/file/262379#t=46.89,52.39"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141804/file/262379/transcript/79620/annotation/5","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e I think that Arthur Mayer, who was a film man, said, gentlemen... Just wait, just wait. Oh, the film Daly said, people who have never cared for documentary films, even when they were as impressive and eloquent and meaningful as the plow that broke the plains and the river, will have to revise their opinions when they see the city. Well, it was a different kind of film. It was full of drama, amusement, and a lot of activity. It a lot more entertaining film than Paris films, not as, for one of a better word, arty, artistic. It's got more razzmatazz in it. It's full of stuff. It is full of the breath of nervous life in the city. It full of sorrow in the industrial section. It a different kind Thank you very much. Well, they did, without asking us. The bastards hire somebody to cut it down, to make a smaller version, instead of asking us, well. They, I guess, felt somewhat ashamed. They also, we'd had a fight with them, they told them, and they were out of their minds, you know. We said, well, Charlie Chaplin films are about serious things, but they use as humor, you're, you, know, I guess we called them god-damned idiots, you-know-how-blah, you know, which isn't... The best way to express yourself to a client, you know...","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141804/file/262379#t=52.34,144.34"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141804/file/262379/transcript/79620/annotation/6","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e The copy that exists today is full length.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141804/file/262379#t=144.18,146.12"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141804/file/262379/transcript/79620/annotation/7","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e If you get it from the museum, but if you get them from other places, it's a shortened version Also they did something else I don't know whether Willard would agree I think the City of the future since it was impossible to shoot there's even today suppose you I give you an assignment shoot This wonderful planned city of the feature. Where are you gonna go? Buffalo you got it You know, where is it? You know? So, Willard had to cook up a thing, and there's a whole big thing here, a review by John Gerson. You know who John Gersen is? You do. I think John Gursen, poor man's dead now, I didn't like him at all. He was a very abrasive gentleman. You came in to meet him. The first thing he did was insult you to see how you'd react, put them against you, but... You know, and I just react with shock, you know, why not treat me nicely? I bear no grudge against you. I walked out on him, you know, I met him we're going to have dinner and I was just offended and hurt. I wanted to go in the corner and weep, you know. What did he do? I don't know, he insulted me. First thing he, you know, what the hell do you think, you know, something, I don' know. He was, he may have been tight. He was a good hard drinker. But he said something wonderfully nice about me, but in the review, it's marvelous, though. He sort of copps out a little bit of it, but he says about the neat world of the future, that this is not answering the question. As filmmakers, we never solved the problem of planned city of the future. We neither had the city planners nor the architects. So it's very hard for film people to solve. I got an idea. The world is... Everybody in the world is adjusted and kindly and nobody has prejudices or hates anybody. All people want to do is help each other. Now make a film, you know. It's going to be hard to find your material. You'll have to write a play or do this. You know.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141804/file/262379#t=146.32,276.37"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141804/file/262379/transcript/79620/annotation/8","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e That's really an important problem, because filmmakers are always being sponsored by people who want that.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141804/file/262379#t=277.28,283.06"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141804/file/262379/transcript/79620/annotation/9","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e What?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141804/file/262379#t=283.73,283.73"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141804/file/262379/transcript/79620/annotation/10","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Who want you to show how their solution works.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141804/file/262379#t=284.29,286.91"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141804/file/262379/transcript/79620/annotation/11","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e Yes. Willard did a marvelous job, but I'm going to make a comment here before I tell you something which is terribly flattering to me, but which, in a way, says something that I've gotten to realize, not in these terms, but, I think he was tight when he wrote this review, because it's so fulsome, it's almost meaningless, except that underneath there is something that he saw. And I said here, if I knew what kind of scotch he had been drinking, I would like to give it to other reviewers. He said, I'm grateful to Steiner for a visual sense of things that must be one of the greatest influences in our observation today. That's a, that's a. George Washington, Abraham Lincoln politically, not Nixon quite, I think. You know, you can't be that fulsome, you know, while he was tight, I'm sure. But it does get across the point that if I have anything, it's an I. Well, I would like to","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141804/file/262379#t=287.48,368.92"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141804/file/262379/transcript/79620/annotation/12","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e find out there is what are, which parts did you work on particularly in shooting? I know that you and Willard surveyed the whole thing.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141804/file/262379#t=369.21,376.89"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141804/file/262379/transcript/79620/annotation/13","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e Which scenes? The Pittsburgh, the industrial city and the metropolis and the Sunday drive away from the metropolis I did. And Willard was down in Washington doing the, around Washington greenbelt planned communities doing that thing. And then he did the New England sequence at the beginning.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141804/file/262379#t=378.2,404.02"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141804/file/262379/transcript/79620/annotation/14","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e That was the New England.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141804/file/262379#t=404.54,405.26"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141804/file/262379/transcript/79620/annotation/15","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah. Now, he picked, I think, the hardest things to do. I think my subject had more bite... My two subjects than his. I don't know what I'd have done if Willard had said, I want you to do the city of the future. I think I'd of gone the corner and wept or something. But I was overjoyed. Willard has a lovely heart. Are you going to tell us something, or are you going...","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141804/file/262379#t=405.5,440.84"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141804/file/262379/transcript/79620/annotation/16","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 3:\u003c/strong\u003e I'm sure, what do I know?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141804/file/262379#t=442.18,443.6"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141804/file/262379/transcript/79620/annotation/17","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e Oh, you're late. You've missed the best part. It was related, though. What? It was relate. Oh, it was related? Yeah. Well, you haven't found out how the hero meets the heroine. That's his own first act, so... Terrible, yeah. Willard is a... If you've ever seen Willard's film about Weston and California and Weston, Edward Weston. That's really Willard. Me. The West was, you know, I brought up in the middle of Cleveland. I didn't love it, you know, but Willard loved California and Edward Weston was his spiritual father and in that film you see Willard's sweetness and kindness. We're talking about the city, how the city got made and I'm talking now about Willard Van Dyke who did two sequences. So Willard really wanted to do these because, but I think... Later he must have realized that I had a much easier, a better challenge, let's put a challenge which I could get my teeth into better than his. You know, Pittsburgh, you just rubbed your nose in it, or your nose was rubbed and you were right in the middle of all this. I mean, we didn't have to create anything at all in Pittsburgh, it was all awful, awful, awful, awesome, awful. I was in Pittsburgh recently. Nothing comes out of the chimneys, but nothing. There's big chimneys. Steel plants making steel. You can't see anything. And when we did this, we should have filmed it. All over Pittsburgh, the science. What makes Pittsburgh dirty makes Pittsburgh wealthy. They were proud of it, you know? The city finally said, the only people that are getting anything out of this are the lung specialists and the laundry. You know, you're making them rich and everybody else is living in misery. Stop it. Just stop it. That's all they do. It's fascinating. Not in Cleveland. Right in the middle of downtown Cleveland there's a steel mill. That's beautiful. Orange smoke. It looks like the end of the world. Looks like the atomic bomb.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141804/file/262379#t=446.2,578.54"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141804/file/262379/transcript/79620/annotation/18","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e There's something about the photography on those two sequences also, all three of the sequences, but four of the sequence, but it's particularly evident in those sequences, the Pittsburgh and the metropolis and the trip, and it's a kind of photography we don't see in films today. I don't know why it is.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141804/file/262379#t=581.44,601.66"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141804/file/262379/transcript/79620/annotation/19","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e Willard was part of the f-64 group and grew up with Edward Weston loving Beautiful beautiful photography, you know, I once had a film class and I had a look Brooklyn electrician the class He came in and he said Ralph. I knocked out 25 largements last night There was a man named a Charles Pratt who does pictures for that woman who did the books about the ocean and the shoreline and everything who just died, very poetically. Rachel Carson? Yeah, and I said, Charlie, why don't you tell us how you make a print? He said, well Ralph, I'll spend about half a day proofing it and get three or four proofs and then I put these up, mount them and put them up and I look at them as I go by for about a month. Then I really get down to work printing. Well, we were brought up in this tradition, you know, I from Paul Strand, Willard working with Weston and with Ansel Adams. You know, there's a deep, deep love and a sense that there's no way to make it good enough. Also, there is something else I forgot. In those... You try to get a decent 16 millimeter color print today. God, in your mind you can go crazy. When this new Eastman color analyzer, I thought, now I can sit in front of this machine and I can look on that screen and see how I want my films and tell the man. So I called my lab and said, I want to come down and do it with your timer. They said, sure, come down. So he showed me the first shot and i said oh it's much too light much too light no detail in the highlights no color is pale so he turns a lever so now it's still too terrible turn come on come on more more more Finally, I said, no, that's right. He said, oh, but that would look frightful on film. I said do you mean that what's on that screen isn't the way of the film? He said no, you gotta use your judgment.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141804/file/262379#t=602.45,742.22"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141804/file/262379/transcript/79620/annotation/20","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 3:\u003c/strong\u003e Hahahaha","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141804/file/262379#t=744.0,744.0"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141804/file/262379/transcript/79620/annotation/21","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e Back to where we started. It makes me think of something Charles Schieler said when he went to a photographic show with Ansel Items. It was quite late in his career, 35mm cameras with all those chromium buttons had been invented. And he said after the show on the way out, isn't that wonderful Ansel? It almost comes in the middle of a joke. Can't you fit, can't you use longer films so it doesn't come in the middle of the joke? What kind of a tape machine mech, mechanizer are you? Do it in a period when I'm saying something stupid! Well, he said, isn't it wonderful how things improve without getting any better? With all these pictures on the wall and all this marvelous equipment, new films and everything. Well, in the old days it was great. 30 it was 35 millimeter and when you had your film developed the lab sent you not the original but a roll of film and each shot was printed on us over a step wedge over something which let all the light through the through number one the next one is called number three that let A little less light through, and the next one there, a little less lights through, a little less. So you had 11 pictures from pale washed out to much too dark, and you took a punch. You held it up here, and if you sat with a timer, he'd say number six, you said, punch nine, kid. Punch nine. I want it richer and darker. I used to punch film. I'd punch film in the city. I punched film on the plow for Pair and for the river on Pair. And you saw what you were getting. And that's the way it looked on the screen. Timers always make everything washed out to pale.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141804/file/262379#t=746.47,884.3"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141804/file/262379/transcript/79620/annotation/22","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Always took place so that's how our american documents of the thirties had that rich","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141804/file/262379#t=885.75,889.97"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141804/file/262379/transcript/79620/annotation/23","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e You could see what you were doing if you cared and didn't let some guy who was doing it because he got a salary.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141804/file/262379#t=891.41,899.45"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141804/file/262379/transcript/79620/annotation/24","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Did you think that the emotions have changed? Oh, yeah. Also, were the emotions better then?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141804/file/262379#t=900.21,904.53"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141804/file/262379/transcript/79620/annotation/25","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e I think I told you I still have eight by ten enlargements from 35 millimeter frames that look better than most 35 millimeter films do, enlarged up to four by five today. Grainless, beautiful quality. And that was not 35, like in the 35 millimeter camera, that was half, half the size. It was less than half the size because you had the soundtrack of","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141804/file/262379#t=906.5,931.94"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141804/file/262379/transcript/79620/annotation/26","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e So that the emotion was...","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141804/file/262379#t=934.28,935.28"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141804/file/262379/transcript/79620/annotation/27","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e Oh, yeah, it's very different. For one thing, the world is running out of silver. So now, also, since so many cameras now are small, they have thin emulsion film, and what makes for richness is thick emulsion. It doesn't make for sharpness, but on a movie screen, you're getting 24 shots a second. You don't need that kind of sharpness. You know, because one picture shots Blends in with another. All right. Now having made the city, Willard and I thought our troubles are over. We're big shots. We're famous. We are great men. You know, we'll just sit back. You know, shouldn't we put something in our lap? Because it'll, you know, the gold pieces, they're going to dribble out of our laps, you know. Nothing. Absolutely nothing. We chased around, I don't know for how long. To find it got to be a joke Finally, we'll get a film. By that time, I'll turn to you, Will Erger, you'll turn me and say, Ralph, how do you make a film? We've forgotten, we've been salesmen so long. We've been doing so many proposals for everybody in the world. And finally, we got a film to make for Batten, Barton, Durstyn, and Osborne, which somebody said sounds like somebody falling downstairs. And some creep of a copywriter thought, this is my chance to go to Hollywood. And he wrote what he thought was a script. It was not a script, it was a commentary for the Mutual Savings Banks Association of New England. And he wanted each line of the idea in his commentary Illustrated. Well, lantern slides, you know. So we said, gee, slides would be cheaper, you know, and we said no, film is the medium of the future. Well, there are lots of people still who think that if you've got a dumb idea and you put it on film, film, it's magic. And so, through one hot summer, Willard and I struggled through Massachusetts making $1,000 of this. I think Willard would pay you $1.000, I'd pay you 2,000, never to show me the film. Never want to see the film, so it was pretty, pretty bad. There were no films being made, you know, so how could you live, you known? It's, you know, $75 a week we've gotten was... Fair money, but you couldn't save enough for a year out of that, you know? Those were the days when you either took, if you were rich, you took the Fifth Avenue bus which cost ten cents, but on our salaries we took the subway which was a nickel. Now it's thirty cents either way and it's going up to sixty. I had read a book, and I had a friend who was a film lawyer, William Fidelson, who's been the kind of lawyer for all the great actors and film people, Joshua Logan, Elia Kazan, everybody. I thought this was an interesting book. It was about an inventor who lived in Brooklyn. It was something like Life with Father, except that this man was an extraordinary man. He invented the machine. His name was Hiram Maxim. And he was a real nut, a marvelous, imaginative man. I mean, he would go to New York. In the middle of winter and get cherries, hot house cherries and go out midwinter when the snow was and freeze himself putting cherries on a cherry tree in the back because the children had asked why aren't there cherries in the tree in winter. So he said, oh there are at times, you know. He was crazy, he was marvelously nutty, but a great, great inventor. He invented the Axel Silencer, he was... Who's a terrible man? Well, anybody who invents machine guns can't be... This is not something for a nice man. But the book was fascinating. It was written by a son. It's a real biography. I got the film rights to it, I got an option for $100, you know, 20, 30 years old, you know, who's going to buy it? So my friend sent me to Hollywood. Oh, I've forgotten something, this was later, I'll tell you, craziest story in the world. And I lived for, I don't know, two years off options, selling options to people who thought they'd like to do it, but then couldn't find the actor for it and so forth. They'd pay me two or three thousand dollars for an option, that was like my paying a hundred dollars, you see out there. So finally, And this is not an anti-Semitic joke at all, because he existed. The option was bought and a film was made by a man called Jack Skirball, who was called the crying rabbi of Hollywood. Because whenever he got in a deal with somebody, the things got tough, he would weep. And he was the assistant rabbi in the Sunday school I was sent by my irreligious parents to, to get me out of the house on Sunday. He was the Assistant Rabbi. And I worked... The script to do the transfer the book and suddenly they got Claudette Colbert who wasn't doing anything for six months to say she'd do it so then instead of being a kind of life with father it had a big a kind a life with mother so they got on nobody that they didn't have to pay any money to to play father to save money and the script was out in two weeks the script got rewritten I think one small thing in the book was in it, and the title of the book, which was A Father and the Family or something like that. But finally that got changed too. So they didn't need my book, they didn' t need anything. Oh, but I should tell you, oh dear, I forgot. One day through this lawyer friend of mine when I was in New He said, Ralph, I'm going to send you a very interesting... Russian producer who made one of the great great films of all time. If you're going to name 10 classic films you have to name The Passion of Jeanne d'Arc. You know this film? He was the producer. His name is Jacques Grinev. So there comes to my house a very solemn thin man in a black suit and a white shirt and a black tie. How do you do? I am Jacques Grignef. I am the producer of The Passion of Jean-Duc. I am asking you to write me and to direct a film in Hollywood. Have you an idea? And I said I have an idea. And I had a generalized idea which came out of my documentary background which was of a man was bent on revenge himself upon somebody who's done something to him in New York and he is in California or vice versa and he has very little money so he has to get lifts and across the country and in crossing the country the United States of America does something So he doesn't, when he gets to this place, kill the man. Well, it's a little bit like a film that was made in Canada about the landing of some Nazis who were in a submarine in Canada and tried to come into the United States, which showed, I don't know, there was a whole big sequence where they're with the Dukhobors, these strange Russians, and with all sorts of people, so that finally... You see a whole country and you see the effect of people upon them and so forth. So he said, Ralph, in your stomach is baby. This baby I am putting on screen will be great thing like professional gendarmes. So I said, well, I'm going to have to get some people to research stories so that we can put stories, dot them along here and get the thing written, if you do these things, you do this. So he kept coming to see me from time to time, always with the most passionate language. I could never find out where he lived. I always had to call some place and leave a message, and then he would call me. I couldn't find out anything about him at all. And he would say, Elf, you and I are brothers between us, no secrets. And I thought, well, I don't know a goddamn thing about you, are you married or, you know, where do you live? You know what, that's what's going on. Finally, he called me up one day and said... I'm bringing my partner, Boris Morris. Oh, that's a joke, huh? You know Boris Morris? Oh, you don't know Boris? Boris Morris was the head of the music department for Paramount for 30 years. My lawyer always called him Morris Boris, because he was called Morris Boris. Morse Morse! He's going to take us out to a nice lunch. Boris, this is a greenie if he's not Jewish, but Boris Morris is Jewish. And Boris Morris, when he is nervous, he's got his hand in his pocket and something's clicking. I said to him, what's that? He brings out some beads, you know, worry beads. And I said, gee, quite beautiful. He says, these beads was given me by the mad monk Rasputin.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141804/file/262379#t=935.51,1586.43"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141804/file/262379/transcript/79620/annotation/28","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 3:\u003c/strong\u003e Oh no!","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141804/file/262379#t=1590.04,1590.58"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141804/file/262379/transcript/79620/annotation/29","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e He says, one day I am playing music for the Tsar. This is very unlikely that a Jewish musician is playing music for the tsar, you know. Certain differences in those days, he says. And into the room comes Rasputin in a beautiful blouse. And I say, what a beautiful blue blouse! Who embroidered this blouse for you? He says the Empress herself! I say, you laugh, he says, Boris, anybody but you who makes such beautiful music, but for you who make such beautiful, Boris keep these bids, keep them with you always, we'll bring you good luck, and then Boris says, and I ain't been doing so badly lately.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141804/file/262379#t=1591.8,1639.16"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141804/file/262379/transcript/79620/annotation/30","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 3:\u003c/strong\u003e Hahahaha","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141804/file/262379#t=1640.18,1640.18"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141804/file/262379/transcript/79620/annotation/31","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e He approved the idea. It was big So it was big the whole United States. I used to say the one of the Protagonists of the film is the United States see I Thought this was good stuff. So the two of them go off to Hollywood The girls working for me, one of them was my present wife, another was a girl who was with her at Smith, they're doing research. I was supposed to pay them, I think, $35 a week, which they were to send me. I don't know, when the script was done, I was to get $3,000. Oh, I remember when we did the contract. Boris Morris kept objecting, that's too much. No, no, we cannot pay Ralph so much. And finally, my lawyer was very smart, said, but Boris, will it show up in the net? He said, no you're right. It will not show up on the net. Well anyhow, they went off to Hollywood, they didn't answer my letters, they didn' answer my, you know, you now owe the girls $140 for so many weeks work, please send. I telephoned, they were always unavailable. Went on and on and finally my lawyer said well will enter suit, the whole thing is dead, will enter suit. So they didn't defend the suit. The suit was in New York, they were in Hollywood. So that meant if you don't defend the suit you lose. So I said well what are we going to do? I mean how can, how can can't get any money on my lawyer suit. We'll get money on don't worry. So one day, phone call came, it comes, it's Chuck Grinyan. Rerv, you are my brother. What is this talk between gentlemen's of lawsuits? This can be settled. I want to come and see you. So he comes and out of his pocket he takes handfuls of new hundred dollar bills, brand new hundred dollars bills. It's a pile. This is Rerv. You're signing this paper. Between gentlemen's, no lawsuits. So I said, Boris, I'm sorry I can't take your hundred dollar bills, I can say you should go see my attorney. I said, why don't you answer the letters? He said, please, I'm so nervous, such troubles nobody had before. I said but you can still write a letter, you can answer a telephone. I will go see a lawyer. So finally I got $3,500. So I said to the lawyer, why should they pay anything? What do they care about me? I mean, what do you do? He says, well, Okay, son. Years and years and years ago, Laurel and Hardy had a fight. They were through anyhow in Hollywood. Everybody was tired of their films. But Boris Morris brought them together for a final film, which was called Laurel and Hardy Go Up in an Airplane. Said it was a terrible flop. It made no money. But they had a contract with RKO. So he said, I know out in Hollywood a bookkeeper. So I got a court order. To examine their books so we could attach all that money. Film had been dead 20 years, but he got a court order. He kept going in and demanding to see the books and they had to go through, you know, and finally the head of the bookkeeping department, RKO, said, for Christ's sake, this son of a bitch is coming in here and upsetting the place, screaming, and looking at the books. It's got nothing to do with us. It has to do with a film made 20 years ago by Boris Morris. Tell Boris Morris to pay his bills. Get him out of here. We've got nothing do do with this. So they said to Boris Morris, Oh I've left out one thing. Oh, oh wonderful thing. There's a famous trial lawyer in New York. He's never lost a trial or anything. He's written books lately about himself, how wonderful a lawyer he is. I'll never remember his name, but he's one of the most famous lawyers. Just before Grinev comes with his new hundred dollar bills, I'm asked to come and have lunch at 21. I've never had lunch at twenty-one in my life, you know. So, we go to lunch, and he tells me wonderful funny stories. Oh! Lewis Nyser! Louie Nysers. Telling me stories. He looks up. He says no way. What are you doing here by chance? You eating with somebody sit down at the table meet Ralph Steiner, and I think We nicer a lawyer by chance, huh? So sits down he orders Says mr. Steiner you are persecuting my client here","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141804/file/262379#t=1644.31,1959.08"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141804/file/262379/transcript/79620/annotation/32","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 3:\u003c/strong\u003e Oh, oh, oh!","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141804/file/262379#t=1959.88,1960.76"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141804/file/262379/transcript/79620/annotation/33","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e My god, I said, I'm nobody. I said I wanted to make a film. They never answered my letters. He said, Mr. Steiner, if you persist in this illegal and unethical conduct, I will see to it as long, that so long as you live, you never get a job in Hollywood. And I said. I never expected to get a Well, it was so... It was bringing so much weight to bear upon me, so much unnecessary weight, that I... You know, I'm scared to death, you know. Lawsuits and things, but it just seemed funny. Well, finally it was that. So that's the story of... My lawyer said, Ralph, I know a man who is head of RKO, and he likes your idea of Hiram Maxim. I think I can get, oh no, no, that came later. He knew a woman who had a funny job at Metro, Lily Messenger, and she was the princess, she was a princess. She was a little Jewish girl from the East Side, but she was very smart and a very good human being. And she married a German prince, Alexis von Funn in Texas. He was a prince from two principalities, not one. And he was a very sweet man who had made a film once in Austria and wanted to make a film again about, you know, those men in patent leather boots and mustaches from Mauritania, but they weren't making those films anymore. Said, I think you should come and talk to Mr. Mayer. So we went in and Mr. Mayor had a big dais and a big circular desk. And I was, I don't know, 48 years old or something, you know? And Mr.Mayer said, how do you do, my boy? Sit down. Tell me about yourself. So I said, well, I'm a documentary filmmaker and I have, and he said, Let me tell you, I was born in Gloversville, New York. The poorest family I worked my and for three quarters of an hour he told me about how he got to the top and finally he said well now I have to do some work you'll you'll do well here goodbye So I waited outside and only messengers said, well now I have to find you a job. He says, put you on solid, but you have to do something. And so she sold me as an assistant to Clarence Brown. Does that name mean anything to you? He did one great film, National Velvet. He did a film, director of film with Claudette, with Garbo. He did Intruder in the Dust. He did, aha. Well, he had... Potentiality, but mostly he did the children's films. He did the Lassie films he did The yearling That was when I knew him and my job was not to help him make films he had a racket and I was employed as Second to him at that racket in that racket which was to find things which he could make more or less children's films like The Yearling or National Velvet, which were so old that the copyright had gone out, but that somebody had owned them once, so he could get them very cheaply, and he would then, if he liked the idea, sell the idea to Metro, but he didn't own it, his lawyer owned it. So Metro would then buy the film rights from Metro and split with Clarence Brown. So I was part of this mafia, small mafia ring. Of course, this didn't fool Metro, they all had a racket of some kind. You know, I hear from the film critic, what's her name, of the New Yorker, that the reason eight and ten million dollar films get made today and are failures but keep getting made is that people make money off the They all lay off costumes, off sets, off this, off that, all the way up and down the line. They get little bits and that's what's profitable, you know, and I don't know who loses the They must enjoy it, otherwise it won't keep going. Well Clarence Brown was one of the worst human beings that ever lived. Everybody hated him. Everybody was afraid of him If you fell down and broke a leg, he might smile, but only under those conditions. He was really a terrible man. He hadn't a friend in the world. He ate, not in the executive's dining room with all his peers, but in the common dining room where frightful people like writers, directors ate, but not with the moguls you which he was entitled to eat with. He had so few friends that I was assigned two days to have lunch with him and entertain him. Two days his lawyer had to come, one day an agent had to come and eat lunch with them, otherwise he would have eaten alone. He was that terrible a man. I don't know, maybe I'm rambling on, but I have a story. It's about Hollywood. One day he said to me, you want to see something? I said, what? He said, I'll show you something. He said this afternoon we're going out. He had a Lincoln which had a special motor in it, special powerful motor. He'd been a flyer World War I. And we drove out in what's known as the valley, and there were no lights when he came to the corner. No matter who was going where, he drove right through. He said, I got more insurance and a heavier car than they have. When we were driving from the studio, we went along Hollywood Boulevard, the main, except for Sunset Boulevard the main drag. And he said, once I owned from here. Cars going 25, 30 miles an hour, to there, I sold it. He was a very rich man because he'd made a lot of money and there were no income taxes. And he became the silent partner in distributing firms for TV, not TV, but radio and automobile companies. He was the silent part. He did no work, had 49% or 51% interest. So I said, where are we going, Clarence? He said, I bought a kingdom. So we finally come to some high gates, and it's a mountainous region with big mountains. It rings a bell and the gates are open, and there's a gatekeeper's cottage there and a gate keeper. And it's the kingdom that was owned by King C. Gillette, the Razorman. And there is a palace, an enormous palace. But he, when he comes, kept his mother in the gatekeeper cottage, which was no be no fair. So we go in the place and it's absolutely incredible. It hasn't been occupied 25 years. The velvet curtains are crumbling. It's full of dust and spider webs. There was a film made, Sunset Boulevard, where there was a scene. There's nothing to this. It was just frightful. Hadn't been occupied. It was an absolutely incredible place. So we go downstairs into the basement, and then we go into a sub-basement. We go a long corridor, and we come to a door, a safe door with a combination lock. And he says, oh, Ralph, would you excuse me, and I knew that means walk away so that I don't steal the combination lock, so he opens the door, there is canned goods, thousands and thousands of pieces of canned goods, rifles, ammunition, and liquor, although he didn't drink. So I said, Jesus, you could withstand a siege here for a long time. And he said, that's what this is for. And I said who? Clarence. He said, the communists, the communist writers of Hollywood. And he wasn't making any joke. And at this period in Hollywood, I knew some of the... 48? Oh, no, 48, that was the end.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141804/file/262379#t=1962.51,2530.09"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141804/file/262379/transcript/79620/annotation/34","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e 47 yeah","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141804/file/262379#t=2531.67,2532.29"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141804/file/262379/transcript/79620/annotation/35","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e I knew some of them fairly well and they would get together and one of them said, do you see what I sneaked into that film? A white man tips his hat to a colored lady. Yes, sir. They were, they were planning the downfall of the USA sticking such things in the film. You know, how could they, you know,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141804/file/262379#t=2534.07,2555.05"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141804/file/262379/transcript/79620/annotation/36","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Clarence would see that, Clarency Brown would see that in the film, you say?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141804/file/262379#t=2555.77,2558.89"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141804/file/262379/transcript/79620/annotation/37","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e But these writers would say, you see, I got a bit of liberal, you know, into a film. As a matter of fact, the communists in New York who were living off these boys used to call it the Caviar Front. That's how radical it was out there.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141804/file/262379#t=2559.34,2575.84"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141804/file/262379/transcript/79620/annotation/38","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e You're ready for it. You know, there's, I'd like to make a little hiatus, and then maybe afterwards we could break for a few minutes, but you had mentioned in passing your association with Paul Strand, but then you made a reference to him that made me think I'd want to hear more about him. You said that Willard had learned from Weston, and that you had learned from Paul Strand and you didn't really talk about that.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141804/file/262379#t=2576.2,2606.22"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141804/file/262379/transcript/79620/annotation/39","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e Paul Strand never told me to develop in such a developer, to use any special film. There was never any discussion, I don't think Paul has ever discussed with anybody. Technical thing. Just looking at his pictures and talking to him, he's a, you know, a terribly, terribly serious man, very serious man. And I think it was seeing his pictures, and mostly the seriousness with which Sto-Photographer or a camera man? Oh this is a way of life. Dictified...","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141804/file/262379#t=2608.92,2660.17"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141804/file/262379/transcript/79620/annotation/40","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Bring it for a person. Was there anything in his style that you... No, not really.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141804/file/262379#t=2661.79,2667.19"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141804/file/262379/transcript/79620/annotation/41","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e It makes me think, once, you know who Perlman is, you people, you said Perlmen, S.J. Perlm... Once I was spending an afternoon photographing Perlman doing just crazy, crazy pictures, wonderful, muddy pictures of him, just for fun. Oh, he was smelling a rose and he had a pistol sticking out of his pocket. Just foolishness. And in the middle of this, I said, Sid, this is a strange way for two grown-up men to spend an afternoon. Although Sid is a comic, he said, This afternoon we may be the only two grown men not doing any harm in the whole world. But Paul is a little bit like that. You say something right and he can make jokes a little but he has a special kind. He's a terribly, terribly serious man, and I began to see that, you know, a sense of what it means when you have a camera in your hands, what obligation is placed upon you, even if you're doing a comedy, that, well...","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141804/file/262379#t=2668.42,2746.68"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141804/file/262379/transcript/79620/annotation/42","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Did he tell you how serious it was, he said?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141804/file/262379#t=2748.24,2750.54"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141804/file/262379/transcript/79620/annotation/43","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e All his general attitude, I would say, was such. And he did it, I must say. Stiglitz wouldn't have been any help to me, because Stigilitz is full of trouble. The Stiglitz was not my man, he took wonderful, wonderful pictures, really great pictures, but he was a Barnum, Barnum and Bailey, he was, everything came out blown up, fancy. Not my kind of talk i don't like that kind of mystical philosophical generalized kind of baloney I wasn't I never went in for that. It's strange strange way out strand made sense Strand was a serious serious man And I think I learned That it has to hurt You don't grow unless it hurts You've got to care like hell When you can't work for success, that doesn't work. Somebody said, success is not a goal. Success is a result. And anybody who makes a film, or writes a poem, or a book for success is ruined. I mean, you've got to be you. You can't. We're thinking, how would it make money, or how would the critics like it? All you can do is... Spill your guts. I can't pronounce his name, Solhynitsyn, is that it? Have you ever read anything that man wrote? There was a thing from the Times which I have in my file. My God! He cares about the world, he cares about humanity, he cares about literature, because he cares about truth. You know, I couldn't think about truth, you know, it's too big for me, but When that man talks her right that's caring. And too much of what's done today in our medium is done for an effect. It's done to make me, give me a job teaching in Iowa University, or to get me an article written about me, and some film quarterly, or shock people, or something. There's only one thing you can do. You can't... Success is not a goal, it corrupts, it ruins the man, it ruins the product, I don't know if it ruins the man but it ruins what you do. What comes out is piffle. Let's take a break. One thing I saw in Hollywood which was really interesting, my wife did articles for a newspaper and she was a photographer and an interviewer and she did stories about Hollywood people and so she got in everywhere and we got a basket of fruit. When a life man went to Metro, he went in a Cadillac and when she went, she went to Chevrolet, so we were pretty far down. But at least I got around quite a bit, met a lot of big-shot people and so forth. And I watched Orson Welles shoot for about a week. I also watched, uh, who's the man that made, uh... The Treasures of Sierra Leone. John Houston. Houston. I watched him shooting a film about gangsters in Florida. Key Largo. Yeah. Wells was directing the Magnificent Ambersons, he was doing magic tricks for all the visitors, he was producing on the next a mystery film of somebody else directing and leaving all the time. He was dictating letters to his secretary, being charming to my wife who was interviewing him for PM newspaper. This is a case, it was a wonderful case of a real, real brilliant genius, a man of tremendous ability, a Man who, you know, his Shakespeare reputation was enormous, his knowledge and feeling for Shakespeare. Let something get in the way of just doing his job, you know, I saw... Foundations, you know, crumbling away, you could see it, you know, he said, show off and","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141804/file/262379#t=2751.03,3094.35"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141804/file/262379/transcript/79620/annotation/44","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e It was just terrible. What were you watching him drag? Embersons.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141804/file/262379#t=3096.12,3100.48"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141804/file/262379/transcript/79620/annotation/45","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah. And even there he was doing it in fancy language just as a joke. I think every day he came on the set with a new directing gimmick. Not that would affect the film, but just the way he talked to actors, you know. Nutty stuff. Real nutty. Show-off, show-off. Off, you know? And it's pretending, proving you're a great man instead of... Dusting the shelves, laying the bricks, doing your goddamn job you have to do, you know, seriously. Houston was very different. Oh, Houston was marvelous. Houston, in talking to my wife, said, when I have a good script, he said, like I'm made. Cera.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141804/file/262379#t=3101.17,3157.85"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141804/file/262379/transcript/79620/annotation/46","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Margaret","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141804/file/262379#t=3158.95,3158.95"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141804/file/262379/transcript/79620/annotation/47","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e He said, I didn't have to direct that at all. He said I had actors, said we just had a good time, said it was just water rolling off a duck's back. I had a script you couldn't lose, I had actor you couldn' t lose, and he said the problem is to get that kind of a script, and it's true, you think a dumb director could have done that film with what? He had. It wouldn't have been as good, but he had enough. Key Largo I remember It was Hugh... No, it was... I'm terrible at names. The guy who was always the villain. Oh, it's Edward G. Robinson. Edward G Robinson and also the man who died of cancer. The tough guy. Great great","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141804/file/262379#t=3159.47,3220.58"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141804/file/262379/transcript/79620/annotation/48","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e The alarm is now turned off.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141804/file/262379#t=3221.79,3222.95"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141804/file/262379/transcript/79620/annotation/49","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e And every once in a while, one of them would say, these lines are terrible, it won't work, I can't say them. And he would say to them in the quietest voice, you just did say them, you were wonderful. They won't' work. You were wonderful, I tell you. You can't lose. You were Wonderful. Just go ahead and do it again. You We're wonderful.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141804/file/262379#t=3226.98,3253.1"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141804/file/262379/transcript/79620/annotation/50","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Houston, say that.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141804/file/262379#t=3254.23,3254.87"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141804/file/262379/transcript/79620/annotation/51","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e Oh, he was so seductive, he's so seducive. My wife said to him, you know, gee, you do it so easy. He said, it's a good script, I can't lose. I got Beauregardt and I got Edward G. Robinson. How can I help making a good film? Can't lose, it was marvelous. And it's true when he gets something terrible, he's terrible, just terrible. That was Hollywood. I had a friend, a very, very close friend out there, Robert Ardry, who made money. I don't know how much it would be today, but in those days he made $150,000 a year working on three films a year, which is all he would work on, for three weeks. So it's nine weeks, he would make $150,000, and he was... I think he's still, this is still the job that pays best, which is being the doctor. In those days especially, you had 16 writers on everything, they didn't all get credit, but somebody put in the love element, somebody put the drama, another person put in some element, then the director, the producer, the director or the... Actor wasn't satisfied. So you got in another famous name who had written a novel back in 1920 who would try to Make certain things which didn't fit together because they were done by different people fit together And finally my friend would be called in This job was to do the final and because they paid him so much they listened to him and he said the trouble with producers is they're never around they're always out to the racetrack or gambling in las vegas you can't get them so he said i have a system they've got one month work on the script two weeks. They've got one week to read it. If they haven't read it in one week, that's all. I'm through. They read it and want me to still work. I'll work one more week. But if they haven't read it in one week, Mike, I'm over. That's my contract. He also did another thing. This $150,000 was paid over a 10-year period, so it kept on. He worked on the Three Musketeers, in which they'd had 50 writers. I said, what'd you do? He said, oh, terribly important things. Terribly important things! The Catholic Church objected that the cardinal was uh... This was very bad because the cardinal was the enemy of the three musketeers so the cardinals that's ruchalur happened to be the premier of france or so wherever it said cardinal i changed it to to the premier when anybody addressed him they didn't address him as cardinal and i advise them they should dress him So it looked a little bit somber. So he might be in the church, but he should dress a little bit fancier than a cardinal would dress so he looked like the Timberlake Prince. He said, very important, but throughout a lot of crap that had been left from the 13th Rider, you know, and he told me a wonderful story, Sam Goldwyn. Really did some wonderful, wonderful films. But Sam Goldwood only knew one thing, having been a very poor boy. He wanted everything the best, and he bought the thing that was the most expensive, because that would be the best. But he also had some modicum of taste. He did that film about after the war, you remember the... Best years of our lives? Best years, yeah. Best years. And he did a number of good things. And he was employing the man who wrote Mr. Deeds Goes to Washington and Mr. Smith Goes to town. Very famous.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141804/file/262379#t=3254.95,3542.41"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141804/file/262379/transcript/79620/annotation/52","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e No way, John.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141804/file/262379#t=3543.81,3544.37"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141804/file/262379/transcript/79620/annotation/53","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e No. No. It wasn't my nature. Well anyhow. And One day, Mr. Gowen comes to the studio, and he says, I want to see. So they call up, the secretary says... Nichols? No, no, not Dudley Nichols. And they say he hasn't come on the lot yet. He said, my God, I pay him $25,000 a week. He can't come to work on time? Immediately as he comes in the gate, the doorman is to tell him, park your car, come here to my office. So he comes. Gowin balls the hell out of him, and he said, To go when you want me to come in at 9 and leave at 5. Is that right? I understand you correctly.\" He said, yes, that's exactly. You're getting $25,000 a week for $25000 a week. You can afford to come on time and go home on time. He said all right. He said, however, he said, you've asked me to find a solution to a film, a big film, and you have all the stars on salary. And it's been going on five months until you hired me to find the third act, in a sense, the solution of the whole film. So I don't sleep nights worrying, I think about it every minute, and I won't use that as an excuse, but I would just tell you that last night I couldn't sleep and I found a solution. And however, since I discovered the solution not between the hours of nine and five... I will throw that away and get to work from nine to five to find another solution. Go and say, forget everything I said!","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141804/file/262379#t=3544.83,3661.3"}]},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141804/file/262379/transcript/79620","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["English [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141804/file/262379/transcript/79620/annotation/54","type":"Annotation","motivation":"subtitling","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/file_transcripts/associated_files/000/079/620/original/trint_Coll458_jb0055_Steiner_02_transcript.vtt?1747153147","format":"text/vtt","language":"en"},"target":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/file_transcripts/associated_files/000/079/620/original/trint_Coll458_jb0055_Steiner_02_transcript.vtt?1747153147"}]}]}]}