{"@context":"http://iiif.io/api/presentation/3/context.json","id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/iiif/r785h7dr3p/manifest","type":"Manifest","label":{"en":["Interview with Peter Watkins and M. Gill, plus various [1/4-in. magnetic audiotape], June 1965"]},"logo":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/029/original/uo-logo-hires.png?1580744881","metadata":[{"label":{"en":["Description"]},"value":{"en":["1 sound tape reel : ips; 5 in. (Physdesc)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Format"]},"value":{"en":["1 sound tape reel(s) (analog)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Identifier"]},"value":{"en":["Coll 458 (Collection Call Number)","JB0068 (Digital Object ID)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Date"]},"value":{"en":["June 1965 (Creation)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Source Metadata URI"]},"value":{"en":["https://scua.uoregon.edu/repositories/2/archival_objects/345441"]}},{"label":{"en":["Agent"]},"value":{"en":["Watkins, Peter, 1935-"]}}],"summary":{"en":["1 sound tape reel : ips; 5 in."]},"provider":[{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/aboutus","type":"Agent","label":{"en":["University of Oregon Libraries"]},"homepage":[{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/","type":"Text","label":{"en":["University of Oregon Libraries"]},"format":"text/html"}],"logo":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/029/original/uo-logo-hires.png?1580744881","type":"Image"}]}],"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/public/images/audio-default.png","type":"Image","format":"image/png"}],"items":[{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424","type":"Canvas","label":{"en":["Media File 1 of 3 - Coll458_jb0068_Watkins_Gill_01.mp3"]},"duration":7647.24245,"width":640,"height":360,"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/public/images/audio-default.png","type":"Image","format":"image/png"}],"items":[{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424/content/1","type":"AnnotationPage","items":[{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424/content/1/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"painting","body":{"id":"https://aviary-p-universityoforegonlibraries.s3.wasabisys.com/collection_resource_files/resource_files/000/262/424/original/Coll458_jb0068_Watkins_Gill_01.mp3?1739228305","type":"Audio","format":"audio/mpeg","duration":7647.24245,"width":640,"height":360},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424","metadata":[]}]}],"annotations":[{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424/transcript/76734","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["AUTO_TRINT_Coll458_jb0068_Watkins_Gill_01.mp3 [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424/transcript/76734/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eUnidentified:\u003c/strong\u003e In the new.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424#t=9.09,9.42"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424/transcript/76734/annotation/2","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e Index series.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424#t=9.66,10.05"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424/transcript/76734/annotation/3","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eUnidentified:\u003c/strong\u003e Number one British Film Institute saying on Carl Dreyer. I mean, the Danish, it's.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424#t=10.44,18.27"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424/transcript/76734/annotation/4","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e Written every new got a film directors work.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424#t=18.42,22.32"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424/transcript/76734/annotation/5","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eUnidentified:\u003c/strong\u003e Translated by Marion Howard. Hello again, general editor Gavin Lambert.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424#t=22.92,29.13"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424/transcript/76734/annotation/6","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e This is a practical hands on acting by the cinema by Agnes Platt. New York, E.P. Dutton and Company, 680 one fifth have it in the 1923 Agnes Platt.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424#t=34.59,49.8"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424/transcript/76734/annotation/7","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eUnidentified:\u003c/strong\u003e Hints on acting to the cinema.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424#t=52.62,55.33"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424/transcript/76734/annotation/8","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e This is chapter three how to train for Facial expression. One important point about this is page 31. Important point about facial expression on the cinema has been mentioned in the last chapter. You're confronted by the seeming paradox that you have to convey your message by the end of expression, without the help of words, with the least possible movement of the features. In other words, the expression on the face must concentrate in the eyes. In my book Practical Hands on Training for this stage, I've given a certain number of exercises for cultivating expression in the face and eyes, practice in which should be helpful both for cinema and for stage work. I do not want to repeat these exercises here. I will simply recommend the pupil to take the hint contained in a previous chapter in which I speak of the custom adopted among American producers of holding a handkerchief across the face so that only the eyes are visible. If the student will try this in front of a glass, endeavoring to express by means of his eyes alone the various emotions of fear and suspense hatred, envy, jealousy, worry, joy, triumph, love, solicitude, pity and despair. He will soon find out his own limitations. Practice makes perfect, and he will learn to overcome these limitations if he has the patience to persevere. Remembering that the shape of the eyes depends on the position of the eyelids, and that he can alter the shape at will and change the whole look of his eyes by altering the positions of the lips. Although we say of our friends that they have round eyes or long eyes, starry eyed or harmonized, yet when once control has been acquired over the muscles that regulate the movement of the eyelids, the shape of the eyes can be altered almost at will, so that the same eyes can look either round or almond shaped, wide open or heavy lidded as their own pleases. Of course, this is not easy, and a student must make up his mind. They will have to continue his practice through weeks and months and even years before we look at an act of affection, Especially as the practice should not be kept up for long, at a time when the eyes will want it. Like everything else, successful practice depends very much on having a clear mental conception of the effect you want to produce. Muscular control depends upon mental control. Instructions are conveyed from the brain to the muscles, which must instantly obey. Unless the mental conception is clear, the muscular effect will lack significance. Know what you want to do and if you have any force of character, you will end by being able to do it. Be careful not to contract bad habits from other people, and remember that anything exaggerated is likely to defeat its purpose. And take the jump from the sublime to the ridiculous. Cultivate discretion in this as in everything else. Any any defective site will be apt to engender an irregular way of using the eyes, such as squinting, screwing up the lids, or frowning due to the difficulty of focusing. Keep careful. Watch upon yourself to be sure that no habit of this sort is being contracted. A little useful practice can be snatched by economizing words in everyday life. Experiment on those around you to see how far you can make your meaning and own, by the use of facial expression alone in this case. Care must be taken not to exceed the limits of ordinary custom. It would be unfair to indulge in excessive pantomime, which would merely do harm instead of good, as it would certainly not be allowed on the cinema. A great deal.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424#t=59.01,262.06"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424/transcript/76734/annotation/9","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eUnidentified:\u003c/strong\u003e Of fun can be got out of this simple little device. If you do not mind a joke against yourself. It is well.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424#t=262.3,267.94"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424/transcript/76734/annotation/10","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e And carefully drawn.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424#t=268.36,269.05"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424/transcript/76734/annotation/11","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eUnidentified:\u003c/strong\u003e Those about us should remain unaware of the fact that they have been pressed into the service. The goal to aim at is to bring off the trick in such a way that no one notices anything unusual. Another equally good exercise.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424#t=269.56,281.2"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424/transcript/76734/annotation/12","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e To watch the expression on the faces of the two people who are just beyond their fright, and try to guess what they are saying. This is a really useful study, as it sharpens the faculty of one solution helps us to acquire quickness of perception, which it stands in good stead. It is better to be able to test the accuracy of your deductions.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424#t=281.98,300.89"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424/transcript/76734/annotation/13","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eUnidentified:\u003c/strong\u003e And for this purpose, obliging friends may become useful. So have the kindness to talk with insight, but beyond hearing, and tell us afterwards what they were talking about. We make them better for their own surmises. This is really an amusing game, and friends are usually willing to help, as they can almost always find something to laugh at in our wild guessing. I recommend it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424#t=301.67,322.16"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424/transcript/76734/annotation/14","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e As a pastime to suffer from overmuch bridge. Then there's a section here on holding expressions for.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424#t=322.43,331.67"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424/transcript/76734/annotation/15","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eUnidentified:\u003c/strong\u003e Long periods of time.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424#t=332.6,333.32"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424/transcript/76734/annotation/16","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e And another important thing in post 37. Another important thing is to learn how to make an expression increase in intensity. An effect often depends on crescendo. Indeed, without the use of this, there can never be any effective climax and all emotions should be practiced on a sliding scale. Moreover, contrasting emotions should be taken quickly one after the other, as many an actor can work himself up to a pitch of intensity in one mood. But very few can change from one key to another. Running the gamut of the emotions without pausing. Yet no acting is so successful as that which introduces the quick changes. No effect, so potent with an audience is when an actor shifts from mood to mood. We never laugh. So hard is when we have just been shedding tears. What funny stories are ever so much producing as those told when returning from a funeral? I once heard of a girl who broke off her engagement because her lover left. Her lover laughed as they journeyed home from the burial of her father. She did not understand, as an older person would have done, but the life was due to a nervous reaction. I lost and most important hint is time your expressions. Learn how long it takes you to work up to a climax of intensity, and just how long you can sustain an effective expression without it's becoming stiff. When rehearsing for the films, everything is timed to the fraction of a second and is essential to know exactly how long any effect you use is going to take. Remember that where films are concerned, the old adage. The old adage time is money applies with practical force for time in the studios is translated into terms of so many feet of film. The length of every film has a rigid element. Each for you has to consist of so many feet, no more, and the whole action of the film is arranged to produce just this number of feet. Page 50. Try this exercise. Oh, stand in front of the glass and think of types. Don't think of moods or events or sensations, merely of types. Now let your face drop easily and naturally into the look which epitomizes each type. Until you can do this, you are of little value for the cinema. It's not easy to do because it is subtle, but we're done in a way that takes the leap from the sublime to the ridiculous. But well done. Done with decision and understanding, healing and meaning. Her face will quietly and simply with no parent, I thought, become a gallery of portraits, each quickly following the other, and each equally true to life. No grimacing, no conscious effort. Just think of the type. Think is the type. Would think and be the type. I happen to know several languages and have often been asked how it is that I pick up the language quickly. The recipe is simple. I make myself thinking that language, and I believe that the recipe for success in acting is think in the character. Yes, I can hear you saying how difficult this is because my instructions are mental and not physical. Mental laziness is the curse of the times. I will pay any money for hard and fast rules, which we believe will help us to acquire a mastery of art mechanically, without the necessity for individual thought. But we shirk the responsibility of thinking for ourselves. Yeah, we get them. There are very few subjects that.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424#t=337.31,543.12"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424/transcript/76734/annotation/17","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e I'm not perfectly happy to to shoot after a month's work on them.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424#t=544.35,547.98"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424/transcript/76734/annotation/18","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424#t=548.28,548.28"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424/transcript/76734/annotation/19","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e And and in in, in in the BBC it generally considered excessive as indeed I suppose it is in any television organization to have a month's preliminary work on a thing. You know, I mean, this to me is fantastic, and I've always stuck out. I've always had a month work on every program that I've done. Before shooting and the at the for instance, one of the, one of the tendencies is in the terminology the it's often called reconnaissance rather than research. You know what though? The thing is, all that and all you got to do is go and look at it like a battle or something. Yeah, I just there's no there's no real understanding that. In fact, what you've got to do is, is to create a subject because, I mean, I just I think it's where the Irish film is going to fail because I think there's all sorts of marvelous material, but it has no I've have no unity in my head at all. And I'm just responding quite arbitrary to what happens, you know, which is a bad way of doing. And when you talk about it, about this country controlling all the time, I'm, I when I came from radio and television, I was absolutely sure that this was what you had to do. This was what I had always been used to doing in radio was to control the material. Absolutely. Because one wrote it down. Nothing happened accidentally. You, you you. If you created the thing, you wrote it down on paper, or you recorded and you subsequently edited in an enormous can now. All right. Fine. I don't know why this is happening, but I find that that. I'm tending to move away from that. For instance, I started the first film I ever made. I really didn't know how to make films. I mean, I haven't got a clue. I've done a couple of sort of journalistic type 2 or 3 journalistic type stories for a program called tonight, which was. And the other day, this was 1957, and I knew nothing at all about filmmaking, but. I was given that I got the chance, created the chance of making a film. I was interested enough at that time, although I knew little about it to make a film. And, you know, I got the chance and got the budget to do it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424#t=548.55,692.12"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424/transcript/76734/annotation/20","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e And we were going to go.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424#t=693.23,694.88"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424/transcript/76734/annotation/21","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e For various reasons, which are terribly ephemeral, but do control and work to to some extent. You know, My wife is having a baby and I didn't want to be too far away from home. So I decided to make a film in the Black Country, which is a great industrial area to the to the west and south of Wolverhampton and Birmingham, and this is an area that I've done some radio programs about. It's fantastically interesting area in terms of its survival into the 20th century. And it's it's called the Black Country because it is.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424#t=696.38,724.08"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424/transcript/76734/annotation/22","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e Like Tennessee Mountain.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424#t=724.25,725.67"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424/transcript/76734/annotation/23","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Is it a mountain? No no no no no no no, it's it's slightly hilly. It's normal Warwickshire Worcestershire countryside. But it's been heavily industrialized in small village areas. So the villages which are now in fact towns connected by extremely squalid suburbs, the whole thing is virtually an urban area, but it's an urban area with, with very, very strongly characteristic pockets of, of, of rural life. In it you will suddenly find acres and acres and acres of pit heaps which have been left, and they've grown up into a sort of into a into a forest. There are trees and rabbits and, and there's coursing and everything in these, you say, and so that you get an extraordinary interweaving of the country pursuits for the rural pursuits with tremendously hard, tough and heavy industry. And the villages still maintain rather than our towns have got us, and some of them are boroughs, you know, big towns maintain their independence in the sense that one village, for instance, in in the Black Country, a village called Willenhall makes locks, but it doesn't make keys. And the next door village makes keys but doesn't make locks. One village makes Cradley Heath, makes chains and anchors. Heavy chain. Everything from from a chain sort of inch and a half up to the five foot chains for liners and anchors. And the next door to make Tomic is the sort of absolute center of English class making. And then the one down the road is the center of the thought trade, or was the center of the salt trade in the 19th century? And each of them is very clearly defined anyway. It's a fascinating area. And I had done it 2 or 3 radio programs about it on recordings of people. So the moment I got this chance, I decided to make a film about Cradley Heath, which is the center of the of the chain of the chain making.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424#t=727.24,845.99"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424/transcript/76734/annotation/24","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424#t=846.71,846.71"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424/transcript/76734/annotation/25","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Now I went to Cradley Heath. I hadn't been there before, I'd been through it, but I didn't that I went to create the heat and my heart sank because there was nothing there. You know, there was, there was, it was just Main Street. There was no center. There was nothing discernible to give any sort of coherence to it in one's mind or in one's eye. And of course, I was absolutely wrong, but that was my first impression. I thought. Christ, how am I going to make anything of this? You know, I one was committed. I was in the schedule by that time, and I had to turn out to film and be ready to shoot, especially as this was the first one. I knew that I'd chicane my way into this. Anyway, I knew one man in Cradley Heath who was the most remarkable man in Cradley. There was a chain maker so I thought, I can't make a film about this time. The simplest thing to do is to make a film about one person in the time, because that is something finite that one can get hold of and walk, run, you know. And so I just, I went to see this chap and said this to him and he agreed. Well, I made this first film, which is called Joe Smith, and it was about Joe Mallory, who was a man then of I think he was 67. And he'd been in the chain trade all his life, and his father and his brothers and everything. And he was he was not only a remarkable workman, but he was also a remarkable villain. He kept a pub that he and his wife By being extremely intelligent woman. I've kept him out of jail for every sort of lawbreaking you can imagine. I mean, simple lawbreaking, like drinking after hours and having dog fights in the cellar and this sort of thing, you say. And he was known all over the country. He's a great cock fighter. He's in them. He fought dogs until the last 15 years, and he just a great man, you know, in the brutal 19th century sense of the industrial man. He is the sort of archetype and he's still alive. Is that the incredible thing? So anyway, so I was terribly lucky in knowing this man and decided and coming to this quite arbitrary conclusion. Well, we made this film and it was the only previous experience really, that one had was the fact that one had written lots of radio programs, and that you knew that you patterned the material in such and such a way, and that if you wanted something to happen in such a way, that the way then you created the script so that it did happen in the 70s. How do you mean?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424#t=847.49,992.32"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424/transcript/76734/annotation/26","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e I mean to provoke something real or.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424#t=993.02,995.42"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424/transcript/76734/annotation/27","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, you know, if you're on, if you're on writing a dramatic radio program. If if you want to, if you want a certain event to happen, you pattern, you shape the thing so that it does happen. You know, if you're writing about about the drainage of the fence and you want to you you what you want to talk about Van Morrison or something, you you patterned your action so that chronologically you can come to them. And that's all. I mean, you control the material. You you construct the thing in a way that I nowadays never do a film. But so that my instinct was, was to write this film in quite a literary sense. And, you know, this was very this was very rewarding in a way, because what one did was to absorb the atmosphere. I just, I was in this time with this man day in and day out, all hours of the day and night, and I knew it better than anybody else in the town. Crap that I know. And then I just sat down and wrote it. Like a radio program. I wrote that Joe goes from A to B and that he does this and he meets a friend. All of these things were part of the experience I'd had during the previous month.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424#t=996.08,1069.44"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424/transcript/76734/annotation/28","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e Things you'd seen and things.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424#t=1071.09,1071.99"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424/transcript/76734/annotation/29","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e I'd seen and, and, and and that when I came back to start and start constructing a dramatic something, these things seemed important and they keyed in to produce other effects. For instance, I decided very early on to have a terribly simple chronology, but it would be the the film would cover a weekend starting at a dawn on Friday, when he got up and ending at dawn, and when he arrived at work on Monday. Now, within that span, one could embrace nearly all the activities which he normally undertook. Well, this was characters that I wrote, a script which was which had every shot in it, and it said, you know, the script said, Joe comes in left and goes out, right, and so on. And when we shot this thing, I as I say, I didn't know technically anything about filmmaking, but what I knew was that Joe was bloody well going to come in left and go out right. Or if, of course, my imagination had been wrong. And this was not what Joe in fact felt comfortable doing. Ron changed it, but basically everyone's imagination had been accurate, and he wanted remembered the way he moved around, or the way his friends moved around, or the way they talked, and so on. Then this all worked, and in fact, it did work. And we shot every single scene in the script. And on the whole, it it, it did with minor variations. It cut together, you know, in that sort of way. Now, I made five films after that, all in the same job, because this was, this was had such an effect, this film on people who had never seen this sort of extraordinary primitive industrial life before, represented in these terms that quite out of the blue, I suddenly find myself doing industrial films, industrial life, not industrial films in that sense.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424#t=1072.23,1180.25"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424/transcript/76734/annotation/30","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e No, but like but.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424#t=1180.76,1181.78"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424/transcript/76734/annotation/31","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e But people working in industries. And each of these was done in that sort of way that the whole thing was very, very strictly controlled. And for instance, in a film we made about Corby, the whole thing was hinged around the, the, the supper of the Burns Club in Corby. And we had to shoot. This is a shot on 35 with very immobile equipment, you know, and in fact, we had to do sort of actuality shooting that today would be quite simple. We could shoot this standing on our heads. Today, I'm 16 mil with our sort of equipment and the advances in sound equipment and everything else, this would be easier. But it was very difficult because what I was doing was shooting only those parts of the dinner. That made sense in terms of one script. I mean, you had said, we will go from that shot of X at the dinner to this shot of X doing something else. You say that we shot it like that. And on the head it worked. And then then since my films were not were not didn't get big audiences. And. We're always here. And, you know, you can either take this as a criticism or as applause. Personally, I don't mind. I mean, we're always romantic and we're always highly romanticized, but not sentimental views of people in industry. In other words, I wasn't content to I mean.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424#t=1182.05,1268.82"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424/transcript/76734/annotation/32","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e People were great meeting with them. Not in the sense that Ken Russell. No.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424#t=1270.53,1278.0"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424/transcript/76734/annotation/33","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e No, no. Well, when I say this, this is what people have said, I don't myself see them as romantic, but people said these are romantic versions of industry. In other words, they are views of industry which nobody else had seen. Now, it would be difficult for me to describe these two. I mean, the only real thing to do is to is is to see them and judge for yourself. But they were they were different. They were different views of industry. It's not terribly egotistical talking about it, but I presume that's what you'd like me to do. I mean, I'll throw out information, but. They were views of industry combined with a sort of feeling about. Which. You know, which is a part of one's knowledge and understanding of the English landscape. By landscape, I mean townscape or cityscape or whatever. You know, I, I have made a film in a country. So that in a sense. There is, I hope, in them. I think there is an A in A in various ways, well expressed in other ways, that effectively expressed the sort of feeling I have about the quality of romance in the English landscape. And in other words, the English scene is there is not a single thing natural in the English scene. In the English scene has been created totally by man. Whether you are looking at fields or whether you're looking at cities, this is the creation of man. And I feel this very strongly in England. Whenever you look, you can sit on the most remote hill in in Herefordshire, you know, out in the border country, and you look down and everything you see is an organized pattern of human development and human application. And if you are going to look at an Ordnance Survey map, the the inch to the mile maps of England and look at this closely. And it is unbelievable the pattern of things that you will find on here. You know, the names and I mean even things like, of course, in the last, the last couple of hundred years, you will find farms called Normandy or, and or Waterloo come from Waterloo Farm and, and and all these things that that come up out of the landscape. Now, if you know this anywhere, you don't need to look at the map, you look at the original. And so that in 1 in 1 films one is conscious, one is terribly conscious of this sort of quality about about British life. It's sort of tremendously well worked quality about it. You know, I don't I don't know how to explain that any better, but the so the anyway one was looking at industry. As not always expressed in this sort of way but as a, as a product. A sort of human experience that was profoundly traditional. I mean, I'm a traditionalist, you know, I my view of life is, on the whole, the traditional. Right and all know that alleged to be fairly non-conformist. But these are the things that the the movement, you know, the relationship of people to their past and to the to the landscape and the world around them and across their relationship, physically and industry to each other, the way people stand and move and the way they the way they work together. This is not this was something that just hit me when I started making industrial films. Was the fact that nobody working in sponsored industrial films had ever tried to analyze the way men work together and the the, the way in which they use machinery or or use this world that they're in to to invigorate themselves, to amuse themselves and so on. In other words, industry is a microcosm of life. It's not just the sort of activity which people can do. It's something in which they communicate constantly with their fellow men and with each other, and they produce. This produces both conflict, friendship, and all sorts of other things. Now, when one started to look at industry. This suddenly hit me. I suddenly realized what I was looking at. You know, it was a bloody and heap, but it wasn't an ant heap in which everybody was just doing sort of semi meaningful actions with machines. They were doing highly meaningful actions with machines and highly meaningful relationships with each other, you know, I mean, even to the extent that in an industrial film, if you see a man doing a job, he always does it perfectly. He always does. He always does it by himself. And he never he never stops and scratches his head and thinks, oh Christ, what's going to happen now, you know? Or where did I put that spanner bill of you pinch my spanner? And until you know, it's always there. And and what I've tried to do in a small way was to, was to produce the two to reflect the inadequacies of, of, of this sort of life, not the inadequacies we've also had. The amusing side. I mean, one of the great things with them. I remember when we were doing this film at Colby in Bessemer and Colby, Northamptonshire, the steel town. It was called Men of Color is a terrible title. I wanted to call it For All of that, which was a quotation from the band, but nobody understood that. Very deep. And but in a Bessemer platform in a Bessemer shed, which is a vast sort of airship hangar, the Bessemer platform runs along one side of it and. About 20ft off the floor. And there are 3 or 4 Bessemer converters there. And on the other side, there are the crane platforms from which the cranes carrying hot metal are operated. And these come down, run down the center of this vast airship hangar carrying ladles of hot metal and sort of 75, 80 tons of it. Now, the men who are cooped up in these little boxes on the other side, operating these cranes, if they want to get a cup of tea, they have to climb down a vertical steel that I got across the canteen. Get the tea. Climb up the ladder again. Now, one day while I was on the best of my platform, I suddenly saw the proper way to do this was to do what this chap did, which was to to to operate his cranes at the hoist. This enormous hoist came over outside his cabin. He put his T can on top of it, and then operated the control to say it moved across the shed over to the best of a platform, where one of the helpers took the canal, filled it with tea, put it back on top, and he drove it back. Drag me there. Now this is what I mean. This is marvelous stuff that you never. You never. Nobody has ever seen this sort of activity. Wives, you know, have never seen the way their husbands really work. And this sort of, this sort of way of of living and working in this way is, is an important part of human human survival, you know, survival in industrial sense. And similarly, the sort of group yells that they have on a production line on a very tough car production line. I'm sure it's probably the same in Detroit as it is in Coventry. They, they, they have sort of group yells which pass down the line. Someone will start one of these and it'll gather way down sort of 50 yards of line until all their are recognized. But. People who don't fit in or you know, who the object of of either ridicule or applause. They may be good men, they may be bad men. But and this sort of group activity carries on all the time. One has never seen this on an in an industrial film. You've never seen how men survive this racket and have it, you know, man, lighting, lighting, lighting a cigarette off an apparently cold glass glassmaker. When you want to light a cigarette, all he does is finish a glass and light a cigarette off it. Is it? Oh, this sort of thing seemed to me rather interesting. Anyway, not to make too much of that, but. So I was borrowing away in this film, the last film in that John that I made was about shipbuilding and and. In that I pinched those ideas from the radio, Ballard's child's pocket on my car radio Ballard and tried something else. But this was unpopular anyway. Just at that time, the leadership BBC changed the contract to ship a programs, and I was whipped off doing documentary films altogether, you see, and this was a period of some agony. And then then I started doing I started working with another chap on compilation documentary, The Big Blockbusters about we did about our own brand. We didn't narrow. We did to go. We did T.E. Lawrence, we didn't chroma. These are all biographical programs, which. Taught me a hell of a lot, a hell of a lot, because, I mean, I despise them, actually, because, you know, there was none of the sort of contact with original material, which seemed to me terribly important. You never actually made films about real people, and these were just chaps, you know who? Who who existed in libraries or in film vaults, you know. And I find this terribly, terribly galling. And but then, since I've finished, since I stopped doing this, I found, in fact, this was a tremendous broadening of the experience. And I now know how to do all sorts of things. But you actually that you picked up. Well, the handling, handling, handling of stills that which I did, I certainly don't use extensively, but the, the the actual business of putting words to to to film if you want, if you need to put words to film, then there is a certain good way of doing it and bad way of doing it. And one learned that, one learned the good way. And all sorts of techniques which are valuable in in television, such as of where to find film, you know where, where to get film, how to get film, how to how to how to set up animations, all this sort of thing, which is now a very valuable part of one's background. But after doing those, there's.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424#t=1279.74,1885.17"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424/transcript/76734/annotation/34","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e The compilation called Teach you anything about structuring and editing also.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424#t=1886.88,1893.69"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424/transcript/76734/annotation/35","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424#t=1895.43,1895.43"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424/transcript/76734/annotation/36","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, in the States, very often compilation films are just illustrated like.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424#t=1895.73,1899.93"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424/transcript/76734/annotation/37","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e You know. Yeah, yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424#t=1900.81,1902.0"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424/transcript/76734/annotation/38","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eUnidentified:\u003c/strong\u003e And I would I had started on a compilation, but I thought it would go like that. Another thing.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424#t=1902.27,1907.88"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424/transcript/76734/annotation/39","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e But what I was doing is going through the material of the period and just letting the material hit me. Yeah, yeah. I found that this would be a marvelous way to compilation film rather.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424#t=1908.84,1917.27"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424/transcript/76734/annotation/40","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Than playing to just go as you would. I mean, select a.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424#t=1917.57,1920.54"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424/transcript/76734/annotation/41","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e Bit. Yeah, fill in the plot, just come in and say, Jesus, what can what can I do with that? That's more like that. Yeah. Yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424#t=1920.6,1927.24"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424/transcript/76734/annotation/42","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e And. Yes. Well, you know, in A111 head in the T Lawrence program, for instance. Lawrence of Arabia, you know. We started doing some minor reconstruction or some imaginative projection into the mind of T Lawrence, which was quite invalid in terms of the style we'd set out to achieve. What was it invalid? Well, it seemed to me invented because this wasn't part of the style, you know, in, in a way, when suddenly change one's relationship to the to the subject here we were saying, you know, Lawrence did this or did that. And one saw from the outside through the eyes of a commentator. And then suddenly when you start producing subjective reconstructions of what Lawrence felt or saw, somehow this stuck out terribly to me. People liked it, but in fact, suddenly to transpose Into yourself, back into the mind of de launch, that bombing de camp when he was in the Royal Tank Regiment, and to to look at the sounds above into the heath, as he might have seen them in terms of the Arabian desert. Now this seems to me, for unless it's part of the overall style of the thing.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424#t=1928.14,2001.8"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424/transcript/76734/annotation/43","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e We felt that the documentary approach or the chronological chronicler of the.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424#t=2002.73,2007.78"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424/transcript/76734/annotation/44","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Approach and didn't admit well. It didn't in the in the style which we'd set ourselves, it seemed to me it seemed me. You can't suddenly decide that such and such a thing is okay, so you throw it in because it fills a certain gap. For instance, you know, I haven't got any material on on Lawrence who at the period when he was boat motor bicycling madly around the country, I think that as people. So we did we did a shot of a of a tracking shot of the motor bicycle wheel there and shove that in at people like this. But it did. Well, it did work. It didn't work for me because I knew I knew it was. It was. It was arbitrary, but not arbitrary enough. I mean, if you're going to if you're going to have a in which you're going to do this, you've got to make a program that is of a piece in which you understand your, the, your relationship to the subject and the way in which you're going to tackle it. And through your commentator, if you have a commentator and we always did in those sort of programs, you you try and create a relationship between the audience and the object. But if you're constantly shifting your ground and saying, now you are looking at a bicycle wheel, is this is this ten lines is made of bicycle, is this film, is this news film or is it reconstruction? If it's reconstruction, who's riding the motor bicycle? You see, you do you don't you feel that you make people uneasy about this? Well, very often we get this.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424#t=2007.95,2088.36"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424/transcript/76734/annotation/45","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e Compilation of films. I sort of a newly shot portion.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424#t=2088.84,2091.23"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424/transcript/76734/annotation/46","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Which is is thrown in now, now the, the the trouble. Well, I was very I was dissatisfied with the Lions program. Although it was a very popular program. It made, you know, it got it came out here at the same time as Sam Spiegel film. And and the impact of it was tremendous because it was so different, ready to speak or film. And it went out on the national network twice. And, and of course, one was terribly pleased, except internally. So I decided to try and capitalize this, this feeling that I had by doing another film. And at this period, I split up this my partnership with this other chap who had been working with me and, and I made a film, I did a compilation program about about the British in India from the time they landed until the time they left from 1603 until 1947. And I decided that I was going to make arbitrariness the style of the thing. So I was perfectly prepared at any moment to cut from from document to photograph to reconstruction to contemporary film shot in India.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424#t=2091.719,2167.16"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424/transcript/76734/annotation/47","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e Switch styles.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424#t=2167.82,2168.06"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424/transcript/76734/annotation/48","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Yes. Come to me as a as an actual stand in itself. So that you you that that people would stop, would accept this as what you are going to do and get absorbed by the story.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424#t=2168.96,2180.27"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424/transcript/76734/annotation/49","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e And how did you know so that you would, you could get this accepted?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424#t=2181.25,2184.59"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424/transcript/76734/annotation/50","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Well.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424#t=2187.29,2187.29"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424/transcript/76734/annotation/51","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e Obviously where you're where your problem with language and thinking about how are you going to construct that so people accept it as a smile and then tell it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424#t=2188.19,2194.97"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424/transcript/76734/annotation/52","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, like you see that.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424#t=2195.6,2197.1"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424/transcript/76734/annotation/53","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e With the piano player we can play jokes.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424#t=2197.28,2198.84"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424/transcript/76734/annotation/54","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah, look at.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424#t=2199.86,2200.37"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424/transcript/76734/annotation/55","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e The audience.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424#t=2200.46,2200.61"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424/transcript/76734/annotation/56","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Or yeah, he's all out to be accepted. Yeah. Well, now, first of all, I want to explain that there was no commentator in this film. And the whole I have a very I am very obsessed or commentators. I come I come back commentators. I always try to do something so that the, the voice of the original subject come through somewhere. It's easier if you've got an Irishman, you know, or any, any, any industrial documentary. You you have people themselves that but I mean this case we, we use nothing but quotations. The whole soundtrack, the whole was quotations of people. The British in India, writing in diaries or after doing the speeches or writing in articles in the newspapers or whatever reported quotations. All this was used as the soundtrack. And this there was no outside comment at all. Now this. This produced this is a difficult program in many ways. And now I see it and I it's it's stuffed so full of of plan. I think the music is bad for one thing, but it's also stuffed so full of plums that it terribly indigestible. But when you say, how did you set up the style? Well, Princeton thing opened with newsreel shot of the Viceroy of a 1930 Viceroy movie, an enormous pump, high angle shot looking down onto the Viceroy carriage, and with all with the lancers around and everything. And we had a marvelous imperial theme, which recurred constantly through the program. When one felt that that one needed either ironic or actual emphasis on the imperial nature, or the or the crazy imperial nature of the occasion. So this started off with tremendous blow, and also my idea was to say nothing in the first minute that we'd get people. The sheer volume of noise and the exciting nature of the music to get people out of the kitchen anyway. Now they went straight from that to. Contemporary film, which I had shot in India by a freelance cameraman of of boats rowing on the Ganges. Marvelous high stem things that look like they come straight out of the Pharaohs, rowing on the Ganges and a piper. Now we used to by flutist. I told this in freelance coming and I couldn't go out to India. The budget wouldn't allow me to. So I sent him drawings and told him exactly what shots I wanted. And this boy is just sitting playing a flute now in various shots. He kept constantly through the film as the sort of image of, of the, of continuing India, you know. And one cut to this now then from that one went to gravestones, which were also contemporary shot film. The graves to the 18th century graves stands in Park Street Cemetery in Calcutta, and then from there straight to. The first charter of the East India Company. This this what I describe it now takes about 2.5 minute, three minutes, something like that job of the East India Company and then stills Mughal drawings of the princes of the prince who was there when the English came, engravings and so on. Now. The the collaboration between the voice over these gravestones, we use two marvelously pathetic quotations about dying a fever, a diary, an 18th century diary which reported deaths in a cantonment of fever. You see, and I reckoned that the that the the the meeting of these two things of the history of the clearly historical voice speaking over the clearly contemporary film would would give people the sort of the sort of clues as to what was going on. And then subsequently, immediately after that, cutting to engravings. And this sort of said that when one tried to throw the whole and in very soon you could see very quickly. But this was the only attempt I really made to, to to tell people what the style Star Wars, but then stop trying to use those on things like reconstruction. I'm saying there are no should. There are no film shots of district officers receiving taxes under the British. Well, we reconstructed this in a very simple sort of way. I mean, nothing like a Ken Russell had, you know, and and feet dancing in a ballroom in there. And we shot a ballroom sequence in, in an empty town hall reeling. You say, because it was, like, similar. When I subsequently saw a program that was shocking, similar, I was astonished at the similarity between Ealing Town Hall and and and similar. Is it? Well, this was very exciting, but it was it. The movement success was that it was received with tremendous protests. You know, everybody what everybody who has nothing and who had a vested interest in the image of the British Raj in India. He got up and denounced this as a hideous travesty of the truth. He was there, and the director general was besieged with letters from from all sorts of people who wrote that. I mean, it was obviously a partial view. You know, in 60 minutes, it was clearly a partial view. And it was a it was a view which acknowledged the quality of the men and women, but tried to throw some little doubt on, on whether they were engaged in any sort of qualitative exercise, you know. So that, that but anyway, it was successful in that sense that it was it was tremendously abused and I, it wasn't that it wasn't a popular program by any means. But anyway, then then I hastily went back to making films about.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424#t=2201.0,2558.9"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424/transcript/76734/annotation/57","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e Where, you know, and, and.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424#t=2559.62,2563.54"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424/transcript/76734/annotation/58","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e So that's where we are now, Yeah. And then.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424#t=2567.51,2572.17"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424/transcript/76734/annotation/59","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e You. But this. But in this time, you've somehow lost your desire to control everything.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424#t=2572.71,2577.66"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424/transcript/76734/annotation/60","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Yes. Yes. What was it? Yes. I don't know. I, I think it was a little bit, but then I think, well, it was partly the force of the, of the human being speaking out of the television screen. But, you know, I, I had been sort of brought up in a tradition of actuality recording. In which you didn't interview people on a tape recorder, you allowed them to talk, and if necessary, you were allowed to talk for hours and hours and hours. And you, you you prodded them and with the radio. Yes. Was the radio tradition? Yes. And which was, you know, a product of the arrival of the midget recorder. Really? I mean, when it when it you were tied to a recording car on the end of a cable, you had to cure recording engineer, and then you could you could run for four minutes on a disc. This was death. I mean, you couldn't do this. There was no possibility of this sort of recording. But once the recorder came in and one could move around going to people's homes by yourself and establish a relationship, then clearly the field was, was was wide open and it carried a marshall. Absolutely, absolutely. Yes. You didn't have to interview him. And this terrible break every four minutes for another four minutes. Ready. Put on a new disc and clean this dwarf off, you know, and then put the cutting head back. And we had jolly good recording cards, but they weren't right for that. Well said that that. I think the, the the need for people to express that identity on the television screen, for people to proclaim their identity and identity, which is never acknowledged really in television, you know, you have a chap being interviewed and if so, be the interview or the editor or the producer. The program wants to make a fool of. You can make a fool of him. And the man's the man's own particular quality. Is there really seems to emerge. I mean, this isn't always true, but generally speaking. So I think one of the things that changed one's view during the past 2 or 3 years about this was the need to allow people to talk on the screen and to use their words in a meaningful context in relation to observed life, the life in which they were apart and at the same time, then to take them out of this and say, all right, why not tell me, why is this like this? For instance, that chap Barney the other night, you know, talking about talking about why what it was like Barney was the extraordinary, handsome sort of actress for, you know. Talking about how and why he came over here. It was in the month of July, and the sun was very hot. Which sounds like the first line of a folk song, you know. And. I think that was partly it. And also one is. One is, one is still finding one's way. You know, I, I don't know how to do these things. I wonder I don't really know how to make films. I don't think we we we think enough about it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424#t=2578.08,2766.09"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424/transcript/76734/annotation/61","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e I was talking to Renoir.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424#t=2766.45,2767.17"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424/transcript/76734/annotation/62","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e I'm not. Yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424#t=2768.01,2768.97"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424/transcript/76734/annotation/63","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e I'm a terrible name, but since I've been meeting people. But this is all a part of it, and I think it. And he said, this is that I've always felt that in art existence that I wanted to sort of let the thing exist before, you know, what happened. What did I do it? Yeah. Oh, Jesus. Oh, Jesus. Yeah. He says, yeah, in Hollywood it's impossible because they want to have the everything written down the line. He says. Now I write him here, everything down, and then I throw it away, he says, because I want to find out what's going to happen. Yeah. And then I said, I want the camera to be a thing in the corner of the room.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424#t=2769.54,2805.28"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424/transcript/76734/annotation/64","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah. Yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424#t=2806.06,2807.27"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424/transcript/76734/annotation/65","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e And in a sense almost you would, you would think that if you were a documentary of the 60s and developed more from Renoir and flow from Perry Lawrence or any of the more highly constructed the old version?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424#t=2807.88,2823.16"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424/transcript/76734/annotation/66","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But you see, when you say when Renoir says that he wants the camera to be an object in the corner of the room which records. This is this is obscuring the fact that the camera is in the corner of the room, but it changes what is in the room. Now, this we haven't mastered yet. We and we. It seems to me, and this is what baffles me really, about this, is that we come back to the point where you, you, you regain control of it. You say you must control it because in fact, what the camera is doing is changing what is happening in that room. It's not just there. People cannot behave the same when a camera is there. This doesn't mean to say you can't with your own humanity and and professionalism put them at their ease. This is a different thing, but the same things don't happen when a camera that has happened when when it isn't there. And I think one's got to acknowledge that.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424#t=2823.73,2876.03"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424/transcript/76734/annotation/67","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e One is false and one.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424#t=2876.21,2876.96"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424/transcript/76734/annotation/68","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Is no, no, I think they have an equal truth. But I think we've got to acknowledge the fact. And, you know, why shouldn't life be different with a camera? That and why shouldn't we acknowledge that a camera is there? Because after we are engaged in this and the public knows we are people know that chaps walk around with cameras and and make documentary films, but you wouldn't think so if you look at them. I mean, look at the keyhole technique of everybody not looking at the cameras that exist, and it's all very well trying to get rid of it. It's bloody difficult to get rid of it or to try and impose anything more positive on it, because one of the feelings I have, and yet I don't know really how to do. How to, how to, to do this. Is that. Coming in and I'm not talking in in current sort of jargon cliche. But when I say this, but in a way the camera should precipitate some sort of life, which is different. I don't think we allow the camera to change the life that is there. For instance, I got a tremendous kick when the other night, when when I was talking to or when I asked Martin what he felt about the English and he was he said, he said the trouble with the English is they don't like work. And he went on a bit about this in a rather in a rather confused manner. But then suddenly he turned to the camera and said and said, The English won't like this, but then they will have to believe that this is so often words that effect. Do you remember? Yeah. He suddenly.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424#t=2877.11,2972.55"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424/transcript/76734/annotation/69","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e Turned and looked straight into the.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424#t=2972.94,2974.11"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424/transcript/76734/annotation/70","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Camera and said, this. Now this is quite clearly the position of camera between life and and, you know, between what would happen normally and what is happening when a camera then suddenly your, your, when your I hope when you see this you suddenly become, well, this man knew this was a camera that and he reacted to the camera. He wasn't just ignoring it and talking to this person off off stage. He suddenly. Now this is what I would like.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424#t=2974.2,3002.62"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424/transcript/76734/annotation/71","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e To happen more.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424#t=3002.77,3003.16"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424/transcript/76734/annotation/72","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e In a way, in a in a film I made called A colony last year about West Indians in Birmingham, I found a man of a signalman, railway signalman, and and this is unique experience. It's quite staggering when we saw it. And even in the film, in the cut down version, we ran six minutes of it. I knew this chap. I'd met him once or twice. I asked him to take part in a discussion, which we filmed, and I'm so impressed by him that his reticence and his it's par that I thought. I make a terrible mistake. I didn't follow this man up. So I asked him if we could come up to his signal box, and I got permission from the railways and everything. So one afternoon, we we trooped up the steps of his little signal cabin on the edge of the railway line, with a bevy of pros and everybody else, you know, to see fair play. We set up camera in the doorway so that it could see the whole of this little signal cabin, and we put very rudimentary lighting in and with it, with a gun mag down below. I said, now, Stanley, remember, this is a a West Indian signalman. I said standing, now, look, I don't want you. I'm going to ask you a question, but I don't want you to answer it until a train goes by or a bell rings or something happens and then just talk to us. And so I, I said, I asked him some question, you know, like when you came over here, did you expect to be disappointed in the way that I know you are? I think I didn't want you to answer this. And I will turn a wheel. We'll turn over. When? Now. And you start to talk as soon as a train comes or you have to do something. And the effect of this was quite staggering. He did. As soon as the bell rang, he walked over to the lever and pull the lever or whatever he had, and started to answer this question and start to talk, and he walked backwards and forwards. He rang bells, he telephoned in his log, and he just talked. And it was it was quite extraordinary, the sort of well of bitterness that came up out of this completely. It's not a well, it wasn't unpremeditated in the sense that we had premeditated it. But this is a case of where here is clearly a camera mixed. Well, you know, if there wasn't a camera there, if you were killing this, it wouldn't have the slightest interest. It couldn't possibly. But if you stick a camera there and say, no, no, he has a camera. And there are people behind this camera who want to hear about this. Now, I think this is developable. The trouble is, the trouble is, you know, that we all work terribly as individuals and things that one would like to talk about it and like to develop and like to see worked in other way. It's take a very long time to take a very long time to come to fruition. All they seem to and I mean, we. I don't think I mean, I haven't had any any I would like to think that I had some influence on the way people did films, but I don't think I have read it. But I would like people to take this is this is the value. I'm sorry I'm having a bit, but this to me is the value of the new intake of young men in the corporation in the last couple of years. Now what what I want to do is not for people to say, Christ, you know, I like his films, but when I squawk, I can do this much better than him if industry is interesting to him. He's obviously, you know, I can take this and make it absolutely revelatory. The trouble is, this doesn't seem to happen very much, you know? Nobody, in fact, nobody staggering in a country which is so completely industrialized does this one that there is no real concern with industry at a human level in the television network at all. Now, there are lots of other things. Of course. It's a minority interest.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424#t=3004.18,3239.27"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424/transcript/76734/annotation/73","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eUnidentified:\u003c/strong\u003e Problems were concerned with industrial. That's bad. In the industrial plants.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424#t=3240.59,3245.03"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424/transcript/76734/annotation/74","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. Yes.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424#t=3246.35,3250.99"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424/transcript/76734/annotation/75","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e Did you feel that this got anywhere near what you were after? The study of class or working class? Conditional addition to social work? Well.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424#t=3251.81,3268.01"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424/transcript/76734/annotation/76","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e There I was. I was an enormously I liked free cinema very much. But I do tend I tend to be hideously anti-intellectual. You see, when I say hideously, I mean. I am an intellectual, of course, in the sort of conventional way, but. The observer classes infuriate me because they're constant withdrawal from any real contact with what I think. I mean, I don't see why they should believe what I think, but with what I think is valuable, which is the, the, the experience of, of of life. You see in the southern, in the South counties in London, the observer class, you know, the Sunday Observer is that. Well, this is, this is a, this is a very good paper and it's, it's, it's absolutely liberal and, you know, a damn good paper. I mean the layout is good, the ideas are good, the articles are good and on. But it seems to me to exemplify all the sort of rather for remoteness of most people who are engaged in art or quasi art. In this country there are very few. I mean, there are obviously some, you know, people like Solitaire and and John Arden and various people like this who are of course, involved in the in the world high tide. And more and more people are. But when I talk about the observatory, I mean people who who feel there culturally with it, as long as they read the Observer on Sunday, you know, well, this bloody paper infuriates me. I take the observer and I read it, but I sometimes have a sort of terrible revulsion known as convulsion. You know, it's right out of the window. But but there is a there is a terrifying lack of contact with the world outside in television. I think people do conceive programs terribly in terms of what they can think of, what they sit at their desks or at conferences. And some remark that even in the.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424#t=3269.82,3390.56"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424/transcript/76734/annotation/77","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e Sentiment that this was patronizing.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424#t=3390.89,3393.41"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424/transcript/76734/annotation/78","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, that that's what I. That's what I feel. Really? Because it really did not know that. Yes. Well, and you want to move toward this, to remain in this? Well, no, I didn't know. Oh, all I want to do is to. I now have this unit in Birmingham with here this little unit, because I said I couldn't any longer live in London and work in London. And what the hell were they going to do? I want to go to India to make films. But channel two was just starting and they needed everybody. And for the first time I found that the BBC actually wanted me, you know, to send that very chippies out of Vermont. Chip on the shoulder and Mark. But. So they sent me to Birmingham. Now, the value of getting young men to come and work with me in Birmingham six months. Three. And I've now had one, two, three, four. I've got a fifth one coming up soon. Is that whatever else I do? And I'm, I'm, I'm not a good sort of indoctrinated. So, you know, I didn't teach these Japs. I just push them off the edge. They have to go out and make films. And the only sort of films that I'm interested in the making of films in which they confront the bloody reality of life, whether it's in a, in a, in a provincial university or whether it's in a, in a, in a, in a steel factory, you know, or whatever it is that they bloody well have to go there and they don't, they don't come back with sort of evasive intellectualized answer. They come back, we hope, with a very much clearer idea of what the thing is about than I would have if I went, because I'm not, you know, really not terribly logically minded.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424#t=3394.58,3489.27"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424/transcript/76734/annotation/79","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e But above all.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424#t=3491.37,3492.42"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424/transcript/76734/annotation/80","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e They get the experience of being forced to confront the material as well, would call it face to face. They can't get away from this, and they have to carry one of these around and and talk to people. And this is the important thing. You live in that great room, the television center. You can stay in there forever. And escape from reality or any escape from it. You know, any contact with reality is lunches with visiting writers or something like that.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424#t=3492.84,3519.94"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424/transcript/76734/annotation/81","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e And very often felt that they needed to impose a desire to make a romantic thing out of something which would be much. Which is not necessarily.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424#t=3520.9,3532.18"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424/transcript/76734/annotation/82","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eUnidentified:\u003c/strong\u003e Dramatic, but can be made. So there is something much more valuable that I made it, but.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424#t=3532.75,3537.88"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424/transcript/76734/annotation/83","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e Only came out of an interesting.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424#t=3538.6,3539.59"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424/transcript/76734/annotation/84","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Program. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You have this problem of.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424#t=3540.16,3544.15"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424/transcript/76734/annotation/85","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e Being torn between what's going to be. Yeah. An audience pleaser. And an audience of whom?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424#t=3546.94,3552.76"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424/transcript/76734/annotation/86","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah. Well, then and no, I don't I don't really in that sense, It's always terribly difficult to to. I find it terrible for to make coherent films. And generally when I've made films that are coherent now, the that they they are coherent because I've shown it to somebody and they've said, what is wrong with this film? Is this, this and this? If you recut it like this, you'll find it's good or something like that. And you see, I very rarely able to see that thing right through myself. And people like Hugh Weldon have had an enormous effect on my films. I mean, the material that I go out and get it and so on. But often I come up with terribly illogical patterning in the, in the, in the version. Nothing. And the difficulty, therefore, for me is to make is to make a film that is logical in the audience's sense, but not as to whether one is informing or pleasing the audience. Because I didn't, I didn't really think about this. You know, one tries to make an interesting film. One if one's talking about Ashman, you know that it's a cliche now to to show men drinking in a pub or having a pub concert. And if you are forced to express the side of an Irish life, say, then you've got to do it in a way that is not going to be a cliche, and that it's going to have a force and a vigor that is different to other people. And it's got to be shot with more observation than other people's. And this is not difficult because people are terribly perfunctory, I think just to stick up a camera, you know, well, we'll do this. But. And, and therefore, in making a film, one seeks enormously to present a variety of scenes in a program which are different to those normally experienced by people in other programs or indeed in their life. But I assume that people are interested in other people and they're interested in exciting pictures and are interested in. In seeing people living as I indeed, I believe they are not vast numbers of people, certainly, but a sizable proportion of people are deeply moved by the impact of other people's lives. And if you go around, of course, one one is selective in the sense that you you meet and talk to people who are whom you select really almost, don't you? Even if you meet 50 people, you tend to cling on to one somehow or other, so that when I say I'm constantly meeting people, very ordinary people who would normally be be. Considered as not particularly interested in television programs, they. One thing they say is, I like documentaries. The one thing we watch is documentaries. They say we don't get nearly enough of them. Now, at the back of my mind, I always have this feeling that people are profoundly interested in the way all the people live and in and and in recognizing on the screen their own lives, recognizing that this is the way I live, or if I know that men on the civil engineering side, Englishman or Irishman who watch this film, will be able to say to their wives, now that's yeah, that's it. That's right. It's exactly like that. You know, now, if if you can say this, then you then people are interested and they're pleased. And at the same time your informing is, is really another matter. You know, one is, one is, I suppose again, terribly egotistical, but one is rich. One is, one is exploring one's own reactions to life. In in doing television documentaries.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424#t=3555.34,3783.89"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424/transcript/76734/annotation/87","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e What is that? What are the little sensitized areas that you find helping you to make decisions about what.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424#t=3784.65,3791.51"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424/transcript/76734/annotation/88","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eUnidentified:\u003c/strong\u003e You're going to? What are your question? I can relate to what you're going through. The things that are going to make.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424#t=3791.75,3797.88"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424/transcript/76734/annotation/89","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e Turn the to the boxing cliche. There's something about what are those little little things that provoke you?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424#t=3798.18,3805.26"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424/transcript/76734/annotation/90","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah. You know.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424#t=3805.59,3806.25"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424/transcript/76734/annotation/91","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e I haven't done as much work as you. I but I already find I have a little area, you know, to make me go. You know, when I'm placed in front of a situation, what am I going to do when I start thinking in terms of themes? Yeah. Interests? Yeah, yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424#t=3807.75,3824.67"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424/transcript/76734/annotation/92","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Have you? Well, I thought yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424#t=3826.95,3828.12"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424/transcript/76734/annotation/93","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e You know, when you talk, for instance, when you're in the industry. So what is the what are the, the thing, the little the little sensitized plaque. It could be labeled in you. Those things which make men stay alive in this mechanical situation.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424#t=3829.8,3843.84"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424/transcript/76734/annotation/94","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah. But now since since. I haven't been using this technique of, of of getting people to talk to me or to a camera or whatever. In industrial films, I've only done three major documentaries to 2 or 3 others. Since then, since I've started using this technique. Now. In each case. I'm concerned with. With the the deeper areas of I. And these are inadequate read the deeper areas of man's consciousness, about life, about himself. I'm. I'm interested in the capacity. Interested. I'm concerned about the the capacity of of almost every individual to to feel very deeply about something. And usually, of course, one takes a loosely Grouped set of themes, you know, in the Irish thing. I'm concerned about the Irishman's reaction to England and how this has been historically laid down for him. I'm concerned about the actual treatment he has received over here. I'm concerned about his reaction to work. There's the three areas in which I would ask any any Irishman. It was in front of a camera. I would ask him to try and express himself on these points, but. In, in general. What one is trying to do is to. Is to, is to draw people, draw from people depth that they actually in front of the camera and therefore from the audience depth that they didn't necessarily believe they had in themselves. Because you see, one of the awful things that you realize when you when you stick a recorder in front of somebody, or when even more it happens when you have when you put a film camera in front of somebody, is it you rise up very, very. A few people as well have really been asked to tell anybody else what they feel about life.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424#t=3844.32,3981.55"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424/transcript/76734/annotation/95","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e Some of it. I want to stop you there when we get some more beer. I know I'm going to ask you to continue to talk about this same thing, but especially in the in the context of the problem of Tuesday night, the problem of Tuesday night, how you, you, you saw the problem and to what you had to accomplish and the way you were. We were working all through the evening to attain your goal.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424#t=3983.68,4008.16"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424/transcript/76734/annotation/96","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e The problem, if it did the problem, I mean it it's it's a problem all over the world, I imagine. That. Certainly in this country where the English are very self-contained on the Hello. Although I don't think they really want to be self-contained. Is that that? Most people go throughout their lives that ever talking to anybody deeply about anything, and yet they feel deeply. People do. I mean, even the most restricted life. A man that goes to the same little box of an office daily. I mean, this is a favorite theme of, of of short story writers. You know, the man that suddenly breaks out or has these great ambitions one day to own a palace or something? I don't know, but but they you know, the trouble is that in a modern world, people never don't talk to each other. Rarely do they. I mean, the they talk about football or about beer or about girls or or their current interest, but they they never really. And God knows, I hate be a rather dotty world. If everybody went around psychiatry, you know, asking profound questions of each other. You know what? You. What do you really feel about this? This are very peculiar. But the fact is that people do have feelings about it. And I think when you precipitate this and this is another aspect of the the presence of the camera or the microphone acting as a catalyst on a situation is that for the first time, people face to face with someone who appears to be and convinces them that he is interested in what they have to tell him. And it's like it's like a confessional, you know, the the the person is suddenly pushed over the edge of all its self-consciousness and embarrassment, and he will tell you, and this is the part from the professional speech like that, the man like the man we filmed last night who who is absolutely fluent and, you know, just just talked and talked and talked and talked. But this is a man who tends to live a highly vigorous, imaginative life. Is there? No, he's he's deprived. If you haven't got an audience that he can talk to. But most people don't feel like this. Now get me out of here. Now, this is very difficult. About Tuesday night.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424#t=4012.21,4158.97"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424/transcript/76734/annotation/97","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e You know, what was the thing you basically like? What I would like in the possibility when die, if you can recall in your mind, create a sort of contour map. You know of the evening in terms of direct.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424#t=4159.45,4172.17"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424/transcript/76734/annotation/98","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e If I couldn't, I couldn't really. Well, the person I couldn't.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424#t=4173.52,4176.1"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424/transcript/76734/annotation/99","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e When I was I just to refresh you was that you'd had trouble with the person you were going to film. You had to go find him.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424#t=4176.819,4183.72"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424/transcript/76734/annotation/100","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Yes.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424#t=4185.17,4185.17"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424/transcript/76734/annotation/101","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e And then you had the problem running to get these people to play.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424#t=4185.97,4188.399"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424/transcript/76734/annotation/102","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, now let me.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424#t=4189.0,4190.68"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424/transcript/76734/annotation/103","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e We spent all evening arriving where you were going to go. I mean, which is not a criticism.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424#t=4190.92,4196.11"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424/transcript/76734/annotation/104","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e But I mean, you handled it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424#t=4196.59,4197.67"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424/transcript/76734/annotation/105","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah. Series of steps which were almost like concentric circles.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424#t=4198.36,4201.06"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424/transcript/76734/annotation/106","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, you better able to evaluate this than me, but let me tell you roughly what I wanted to do. Well, first of all. Martin Martin Burns left Ireland for a very particular reason, which he doesn't know that I know, and this is that he is going to do. He, the eldest son of his father's, got a quite a reasonable farm and has crack kind of go away. Now, Martin is a pretty feckless chap. You know, he's always been a good lad for the bottle, and he's been a fiddler, and consequently he's always been going around playing and so on. Now, by the traditional inheriting procedures of Irish life, when his father died, he decided to retire. If something happens that I'm not terribly affair with with this. You know, this is just a sketch of it. He would automatically have handed the farm over to Martin. And Martin would then, since he was a propertied man, would be able to marry and start a family. Now, the fact that this may not happen until a man is 40 or 45, or even 50, accounts for the very high number of a very large number of unmarried men of almost middle age that you get amongst Irishmen. Now, what happened in this case was that the father was not impressed with Martin and his his his character and behavior. Martin spent four years having I don't I think it was four years over here. He went home again and I think about three years ago, and shortly after he got home, his sister got married and as they say in Ireland, she married in, which is very sinister, apparently in the that the man she married was brought in as the inheritor of the farm. And Martin the story is told that. A man called on Martin at home, just off as it happened, maybe even a day later, when the thing had been announced. Maybe a month, I don't know, call him Martin, said Martin. I'm away. I'm going to England. I just come to say goodbye. And Martin yelled out of the window, just hold on a moment, Seamus. Just change my suit and I'm with you know this wasn't to happen. No, no, this wasn't James. This was another man. And in fact, he packed up and left. But with absolute bitterness about this. Now, one of the basic feelings I have. About Martin, quite apart from his significance filming me in the film, which is largely as a fiddler, but also the relationship between his fiddling and the fact that he is also a just a digger, you know? And we can talk about that briefly in a moment, is that this story epitomizes absolutely the the more subtle pressures that drive men away from Ireland the, the herald of the church, the herald of the, of this traditional system of, of of land tenure. And I very much wanted to get into a position where Martin would been able to tell me about this today, because I thought this would be both tragic and revealing. However, all sorts of conditions, all sorts of things that happen militate against this Now, the film aspect of Martin is that you. You see that man playing a complicated jig or real? It really is like a piece of Bach, almost his fingering and the sort of the sort of patterns he's playing. And therefore what I wanted to do was to to shoot these hands, these big, rather stubby fingers playing, doing this sort of fingering and producing these highly complicated tunes and perhaps tilt up to his face and then do a transition on his face to the face with, with sweat running down or dirty or whatever, and then pan down to his hands, which are holding a pneumatic drill or operating a bulldozer or whatever you say. Now? I believe, perhaps wrongly, and I probably would throw this opening overboard completely when it happened. But when I started editing that, I believe there's a sort of alienation effect here. That's that. That. I wanted to play this music for a minute. At the start of the program. You're just looking at fingers on a fiddle and the fiddle, playing these mother's songs. And you think I sing marvelous or, you know, fascinating or whatever? I believe most people would be interested in that. Even then, it's sunrise. And then you show that this man is, in fact, a Navy. Now, somewhere you throw people slightly off balance. I have a feeling, although I don't know her truth. Have you suddenly open until dawn people's minds? Who? Who say that a man who plays like that must be a trained musician, or he must be a bank clerk or something. But he can't possibly be a man who works with his hands in this sort of way. I don't know, but it's paralleled by a device that we used at the beginning of the colony. This was the West Indian film in which we, the the Secretary and England of the National Council of the unmarried mother and her child is a Jamaican woman, highly cultivated with. When you hear her on tape, this is a middle class English woman speaking impeccable tone and accent. There's the faintest trace of of any foreign or Indian West Indian accent in the voice at all, and it's a compelling and musical voice. So we suddenly thought this wasn't entirely my idea. We suddenly thought, if we put that voice on the beginning of this program, and then we suddenly reveal, this is the West Indian talking, you're, you know, and driving a wedge immediately into the consciousness of English people who say that the black people must necessarily talk in this sort of way and can't possibly have this sort of poise and elegance. So what we did was to get this woman up to Birmingham and and the program started looking down from a window onto the street of Birmingham. And we put the type of evidence. And this woman started talking and she talked about illegitimate children, now about adoption. Now, one of the she talked very coolly about the problems of adoption, quite briefly. And she said amongst the there is one class of child who is not eligible for adoption, and these are colored children, and they cannot be accepted for adoption under the existing rules, under the existing laws of the country. Now, I feel particularly strongly about this as I'm colored myself, you say. And the moment she said that, we passed fast down to her at the table where she was sitting and talking to somebody, and so indeed, she was colored, and then the camera go slowly back and look that have been there again and we cut that. I forget that, but now therefore, in and trying this same device with with Martin, I may be doing the same thing, but I don't know say I don't know whether it's strong enough.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424#t=4203.44,4689.1"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424/transcript/76734/annotation/107","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e Anyway to get it. You have to, you know something what you want. And so you're the time that you all evening, Tuesday evening, you were attempting to get a bit closer.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424#t=4690.87,4700.62"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424/transcript/76734/annotation/108","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eUnidentified:\u003c/strong\u003e To the place of all these people. Open them up. Were you aware of.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424#t=4701.01,4705.48"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424/transcript/76734/annotation/109","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e Problem as you went along? Difficult. I mean, I don't mean that they were not just saying, oh yes, this is A, B, C or D and I have to use an angle but of a wall constantly, which you had to work with, and you had a camera problem, you had the problem of the people were loaded. I guess you had to go and get them or something like that.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424#t=4705.6,4725.94"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424/transcript/76734/annotation/110","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah. Well, the The first problem when I rang up Martin sister in the afternoon was that she. She said that Martin and just runner up he'd been away for for over the weekend and he was clearly drunk and that he had rung up because he remember this appointment that I'd have with him to come there and film, and they'd got him back. And that when I, when I arrived at the house, she, she said, well, we've sober them up and, but clearly Martin was there much under the weather throughout but through the whole thing. But I thought, well about that I persisted and in this and I had a feeling that that perhaps Vincent, I wanted to pin Vincent down the brother in law about contract her situation, about being the contractors, being the, the, the evil men of the, of this field, you know, and Kenny El Vincent isn't an evil man any sense at all. And anyway, I'm dramatizing it just by saying that I also wanted to get Rosalind talking. Who is.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424#t=4726.78,4789.26"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424/transcript/76734/annotation/111","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e Rosalind?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424#t=4790.01,4790.01"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424/transcript/76734/annotation/112","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Was the girl I Roslyn was the know was the with Vincent's wife. Martin sister. Now with both I found them unrewarding as soon as we started filming them and decided to lay off until if we got jobs, one can gather again. One of the elements of missing in this program is I'm not. I'm not worried about Irish nurses or Irish waitresses. I'm not interested just in representing the Irish women. And what they're doing over here isn't particularly relevant, but I am concerned in finding out what Irish women think about the conditions in which men work. You know, if a man comes home dog tired and can scarcely get out of his clothe, can scarcely eat his food. I'm interested in woman's reaction to this. Now, I, I thought that on the whole, Rosalind was too impressed by us and particularly by me. I have a slightly unfortunate relationship to these people because they come from my house. My sister is married to the to the to the to a baronet who is the the the Lord of the House craves. And I was unwise enough to tell him this. And I said, you know my brother in law George, mom lives for the house. Grandma's the Lord is here. And ever since, Roslyn has been treating me like, you know. Yeah. It's terrible. She she she's obviously though. Yes, she does call me Philip, which is something, you know, but I, I feel that she's terribly on her best behavior, which is not the best basis for this sort of thing. Now, as far as Martin goes, I didn't want to miss that. In fact, that evening. But when I first arrived, that mountain said, Where's Seamus? And I said, well, do you want him? And he said, oh, yes, I think it would be a good idea to get him. So I, I said, okay, fine, let's go and get him. Yeah. So we went and got James. I didn't want James then because. He acts as a feed man in a very conventional way. On the whole, he's terribly valuable because this idea of music swapping, of course, is terribly valuable in this way. But he's as a television performer in an era. He has the most conventional ideas about what sort of response he should be getting out of these people, and I don't want him to get any response. I just want him to be there. The television? Yes, he has a he had a regular program on television. You see that over there. And now I hired him originally as I adviser on the program, but little complications about that. But he he knows Martin. You see very, very well indeed that I was friend but I didn't really want him that because I thought that I could produce a different reaction out of Martin without shame of that. But I certainly wasn't prepared to stick out when Martin said, do we want what it was, Seamus? I wasn't prepared to say. I don't want him because the probably wrong man, maybe I this is the wrong method, but I will make any concession to get people to make people feel happy and at home, and that I'm not an intruder and that I'm not organizing things and putting and changing things around in their own home and so on. I'm I'm terribly, terribly concerned that we don't that one doesn't consider that we have a right to demand of people, that they talk to us all that, you know, they stick their mugs in front of a television camera or film camera. That and I think it's terribly important that one should handle this with respect, because so many people, in fact, I'm not saying it's priggish, but an awful lot of people don't. And this, it seems to me, but this is, I find, in the handling of a man's ability with a machine I don't feel you should cut. It's about. And then if you do, you can go there and film the man indiscriminately at the operating machine and then put it in the order that the film demands. I think man's got to respect his own qualities as a person. Only then he then technical qualities manually so that you you respect the way in which he operates the machine. And this is part of the force.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424#t=4790.37,5063.65"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424/transcript/76734/annotation/113","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e So you had so you had to get famous.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424#t=5065.78,5067.73"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424/transcript/76734/annotation/114","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e So I got shame on yourself and many others do it. Yes. A situation there which is often very fruitful. And when I talk, when I talk about Flighting and the Indian. The Indian thing of the of the Indian drums and the and the tabla and the sitar and in Indian music. I hope to arouse a response in Martin on James, which would be truly creative in the sense that one would one would be tapping the thought, the strings that are there in Irishman especially, I mean Irish musicians of course, especially, but also an ordinary Irishman, enormously musically creative people. And I thought when I, Seamus says that, you know, this one, Martin, and he'd start away whistling away, and then Martin would saying, oh, bugger you, I'm not going to be outdone, you know, and start around and they'd and the whole thing would take flight saying, but. Seamus would have done this and Martin. I have never seen Martin drunk before. I mean usually he can drink an enormous amount that any effect at all. But he was drunk that night and therefore this was a miscalculation and it didn't work. Except that for 1 in 1 scene, we were panning between the two of them playing together, sort of almost nose to nose, you know, panning backwards and forwards across from one to the other. I, I couldn't at the time we were doing it. See, see, I use for this in the film but. I now I now feel and it's that amount of experience experiences convinced me that one never really knows until you get the stuff in the cutting room, just how useful particular scenes are, just what they're going to express. You never tell when you're shooting this stuff, what significance it's have. I remember coming away with the most profound depression from this discussion amongst the West Indians? I thought, well, that's just a load of crap. There's nothing there at all. We can't get a sequence out of it, a hell of a thing. But in fact, when one had it transcribed and you looked at what they were saying. And then you started putting this together. It really it made an extraordinarily powerful sequence. And similarly, and this makes me more indiscriminate and less controlling about collecting material because you only you may get the revelation from something completely unexpected, something that that really happens despite you, you know, somebody comes in and something, something is said that fires people or even an accidental camera movement. It seems to me full of possibility, and it seems more important that one should be on a par with my with the with the with the cameraman. But now, then. Bonnie and.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424#t=5068.18,5239.3"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424/transcript/76734/annotation/115","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e And then also you had to invent a new thing and was coming.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424#t=5240.41,5243.25"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424/transcript/76734/annotation/116","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Back. Yes.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424#t=5243.53,5244.76"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424/transcript/76734/annotation/117","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e One thing that you're skipping out of the they said. Yeah. First of all, they sit down and of doing almost a minstrel show for you, remember? Yeah. Seamus was drawing upon his television banter. And I began. And I was wondering what you were thinking at that point, whether you thought it was good or was unexpected.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424#t=5245.58,5269.13"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424/transcript/76734/annotation/118","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, I don't remember. I don't remember this quite clearly, but.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424#t=5270.58,5274.11"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424/transcript/76734/annotation/119","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e Began to talk back and forth as a musical comedy. Any of the. We're doing a blackface?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424#t=5278.49,5283.41"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424/transcript/76734/annotation/120","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Yes, yes, yes. I was running on this one night and.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424#t=5284.3,5289.75"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424/transcript/76734/annotation/121","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah, yeah, they started early. And then you started running.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424#t=5289.95,5292.68"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424/transcript/76734/annotation/122","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah. I can't tell you accurately that. I think I think probably it was. You see, Martin is is an absolute disciple of Seamus is. And. There may have been some spark here of of of devotion to the master. I don't know, I don't. I don't know.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424#t=5293.13,5322.24"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424/transcript/76734/annotation/123","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e Why. Later you had the trouble and the shame. I didn't want to play the pipes. And when he was there. Yeah, yeah, yeah. After this. And you asked him to play. You wanted to get that you brought up. The better the competition is. The same is the I don't want we don't want to compete with his friends. I mean, he didn't want to play the pipes because of course they were. They were hot. They been the heat in New York and run them tower on that. And I mean, I saw that. I mean, he was a real dead end kind of terrible.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424#t=5322.42,5356.53"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424/transcript/76734/annotation/124","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Terrible. Yes. Well we didn't we went we went filming by that and I think well, we. You know, the thing, the thing that was valuable out of that was, was Barney's contribution. The blond? Yeah. The blond by. Yes. Which had in it all a simple detail with this highly idiosyncratic sort of accent and manner, and then finally turning aside and saying, is that right half way to the others? You know, I could I would have been one might have achieved this much more economically, but I felt the evening was justified to get a piece like that. Because I assume always that the cameraman is, is is in close up on these things because I didn't want them. I, I don't particularly want them identified. I was in some I was in some quandary about whether to establish this this room. But normally these These sort of interviews and call them that. Just Irishman talking about their situation and therefore I, I'm not concerned with the external trappings of where they are. And there wasn't a sufficiently coherent thought of ceilidh set up to make it worthwhile exploring the room. All you would have been doing it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424#t=5358.09,5451.41"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424/transcript/76734/annotation/125","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e Exploring a role. Which interview would take place on a call here? I do like the way that people interact. All right.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424#t=5451.92,5461.12"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424/transcript/76734/annotation/126","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e No.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424#t=5463.52,5463.52"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424/transcript/76734/annotation/127","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e I noticed that you were using provocation a great deal. Yeah. As you got on and news, at the end of the day, you and you began to draw upon provocation. Contradiction. And most successful you see here tonight that I was very impressed. And you had established a kind of rapport. You went. You went closer and tighter and tighter on the money. Especially his ideas about things. And, you know, and then you would contact him and he would give him other reasons, and then he would argue with these people. Now, this would not be a conversation that would take place without a camera. No. Well, you were stimulating. Did you think you were actually looking for a reaction?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424#t=5465.9,5511.48"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424/transcript/76734/annotation/128","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e You know. Yeah. Yeah. Well, this is this is. This is a fairly normal stage of of of that sort of activity. You see, what I aim to do is, is never initially to crowd people at all about the thing, in fact, in sort of psychiatric terms, run off the supreme open question. For one thing, if I if I ask a question, I, I try and make a question. Go on for 20s. So they're not forced suddenly to come out with an answer they can really think. Now then, I also like to ask about six questions. I said no, tell me about when you came over here. What was it like? What did the did you see the English coastline did that? What was the what we all sort of feelings at that time. We were worried or frightened or had your family told you anything about this? You know, tell me about it. So that out of this, they were suddenly select something that that that clicks with them. You know, my family had told me about it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424#t=5512.92,5576.2"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424/transcript/76734/annotation/129","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e Directing them in their response, their response. I mean, I'm yeah, it's like I think that you're actually you were pushing something like that to you and then suggesting the things you're actually conditioning their mind.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424#t=5577.64,5587.6"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424/transcript/76734/annotation/130","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Oh yes, I'm sure. Yes. But. You mean that it wasn't an open question at all? No.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424#t=5588.02,5595.4"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424/transcript/76734/annotation/131","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e It was open and and.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424#t=5595.56,5596.61"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424/transcript/76734/annotation/132","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e And they were in an enclosed way.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424#t=5596.82,5598.22"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424/transcript/76734/annotation/133","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e But that you were you were actually doing what a director in a film Does what he's saying. Your hair's dirty. You're sweating. Yeah, yeah. Somebody stole your shirt. Yeah. You know, you just tripped on the board getting off the boat, you know? Yeah. Throw up your suitcase. Well, you already conditioned the guy by saying. Are you afraid? Were you dead?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424#t=5598.94,5619.62"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424/transcript/76734/annotation/134","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Were you that. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. The important the key phrase there, and this has been proved time and time again is tell me you never ask them a question which ends with a with a with dot at the end. I always say people will tell me about it, because then somehow this has a curious effect of, of of allowing them to expand a bit more instead of asking a specific question. Yeah. If you I use this phrase constantly, and I learned it from a friend of mine who is absolutely marvelous at doing this sort of thing, not on film, but inside radio. And I invariably use this sort of technique to try and. Allow him to understand that I know nothing about it, and that he has to tell me about this. That's all. There. The. It's really terribly difficult to be constructive about the evening. I think possibly one is totally haphazard about one's reaction, but I suspect, of course, that one isn't. But it's very difficult when you do this so habitually. It's very difficult to to pin down later exactly where what you've been doing. But I do I honestly, I feel that one is really terribly incoherent and unprofessional about this. Unprofessional in the sense that one wastes a hell of a lot of time and a lot of film and so on.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424#t=5619.95,5713.23"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424/transcript/76734/annotation/135","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e You know, you're wasting when you do it, because if that's the only way to do it, then review it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424#t=5713.41,5717.22"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424/transcript/76734/annotation/136","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, I don't know whether it is, but. Is this part headed? I ran a television conference last October which was about criticism, television criticism, and this is an area which in which way grossly neglected, I feel, and most other people feel too. And I ran a fairly high level conference about this in three days, which we talked about this and my two main professional participants were Don Taylor of Drama, BBC drama, and Peter Morley, whose ITV documentaries. And I was staggered when both of them disclaimed any need for criticism at all. And it rather threw me because I had assumed that that, you know, the thing was, on the basis of television, that criticism was valuable to television people. Not that television people didn't want criticism that tended to throw the weekends like there. But anyway. Now. It's partly the fact that in radio, especially in the regions, especially working in a region, the Midland region at about one has always been to a very great extent, neglected and unacknowledged. You know, if you produce good stuff out in a region, well, people sort of raise their hands and surprise. Partly that partly also a genuine sense of the complexity and the difficulty of what you're doing and the sort of arbitrariness in which you do it. You know what? What tells you. About this. You know, you've worked through this. You've had this sort of agony of working things out and and deciding ways to do them. It seems terribly wasteful if people don't share this. All these ideas are not pinpointed for other people. That's why I feel the need for criticism. And. Why? I feel we don't talk nearly enough about our techniques. You know, we all, we all just sort of hive off and we do another program and it's looked on as a, as something that comes out quite as a normal course of events. From this chap, all this chap. Now maybe we, we ought to get together much more often and talk about what we're doing. I don't mean in a terribly introverted sense, always family based on experience and and actual work and not periods about work, but then being born with it. Why did you do this in this way? Which is what you're doing to me now? You know, I don't know why I did it this way. And maybe this isn't an efficient way. And. Of course, one will disregard an awful lot of what happens at such seminars. But even in simple terms, such as I was telling you before about commentary, the business of of of writing commentary, this is something that you can learn. If someone tells you and you don't know it instinctively. The first lot of commentary I fortunately thank God it was any very, very minute. A month of commentary, absolutely, completely haywire. I put on a film and, you know, I just didn't know that there was a sort of relationship between what you said and the picture you're doing. Oh, what I was doing was writing a little bit of narration. This was a film I made in India. Called The Steel Goddess. It was about it was really about industrial revolution, which is a favorite subject of mine. And the other, you know what? What do you get out of this? This is about the building of a steelworks at Durgapur, and it was related to the Industrial Revolution in England by the device of of an inset in the program, which was shot in England, in the town where the blast furnaces were being built. And one was merely trying to say, you know, watch, watch out your you're getting this, but what are you losing sort of thing anyway? Now, I had about six pieces of linking commentary. Very tiny, 2 or 3 sentences, no more each each case. And I wrote these and recorded them myself. And I think the first one that I remember clearly, I've got a sort of crane shot down onto a hammer. My main village character, I was an Indian, was wielding a hammer, and this shot Crane down from seeing a high angle shot of this man right down onto the hammer. And the word I used over this because they seem to me expressive, where this is an industrial revolution, an industrial revolution in miniature, blah blah, blah blah blah. I was eating meat balls. Now I could have. I could know one thing. I knew the secret.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424#t=5717.73,6041.31"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424/transcript/76734/annotation/137","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e Holding it up too much.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424#t=6042.03,6042.75"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424/transcript/76734/annotation/138","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, that, I mean, it had an absolutely no relationship with with what you were looking at. You know, this was a man hammering and he was saying, this is an industrial revolution. Well it isn't. You know, you could use some terrible off the cuff sort of phrase like. The new a new India is being built by the hands of, of of a million Indians. Fair when they're looking at one pair of hands. But this does relate to what you're seeing. That's all. I didn't I didn't realize this, that you had to have a specific link between commentary and and picture. I thought commentary was maybe something that described, and this sounds appallingly naive, but I mean, just happens to be the way I thought that described an exterior emotion generated by the pictures. And it was here. Now, I feel this about this set of pictures and let me describe this to you.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424#t=6043.2,6103.09"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424/transcript/76734/annotation/139","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e You think it wasn't just like, well, yeah. Was it when it hit you afterwards or when you saw.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424#t=6103.75,6111.28"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424/transcript/76734/annotation/140","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Or noticed and people said this is terribly bad commentary. So I said, but why is it banned commentary. And they couldn't they nobody actually told me why it was bad commentary. It was only when I went through the middle of these biographical programs that I realized what was acceptable commentary and why it was acceptable in the sense that you can't, you know, you can't pull the thing too far apart. I think we were going to have some food, you know. Okay. It's 29.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424#t=6111.76,6138.05"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424/transcript/76734/annotation/141","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e My God. Yeah. One more question. Yeah. Why are you disappointed at this point about this one? I have not finished yet.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424#t=6139.2,6150.83"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424/transcript/76734/annotation/142","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e I'm not disappointed. I'm slightly apprehensive.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424#t=6154.79,6156.65"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424/transcript/76734/annotation/143","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eUnidentified:\u003c/strong\u003e I'm going to go.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424#t=6162.37,6162.92"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424/transcript/76734/annotation/144","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, first of all, there is the difficulty, actually, of dealing with Ashman, who. Even more in West Indians in a defensive, almost hostile situation over here. For instance, this morning out on the site for the first time, I saw on that site a group of imported Navies and navies who were digging a trench for a drain. Now most of that site up there is mechanized, and one is dealing with slightly more sophisticated Irishmen who are working machines. Now there are, in fact, an awful lot of men who are not working machines, but who are doing backbreaking digging and picking work day after day after day. The first time I actually met this chap and I. I talked to them. We did some filming on the actual, on the spadework and on the shifting of of Mac by the individual hand on the spade, which is an unnecessary part of the film as I see it. But I then tried to talk and I got very, very hostile reception, you know, what the hell are you doing here? And why is this? And and I didn't want to be involved in this and so on. Now. Given this. This situation. I fancied that we that I am not getting anywhere near under the skin of the of the Irishman in this country. I think the one to a talk, and this was evidenced by a chap in the trench later on. I did make contact with him, partly through this fortuitous thing of my name, which is very valuable. You see the very Irish name, and a and a, and a well respected name in Ireland on the whole. And he said, oh, no, I'm not going to talk to you. You're going to talk to the former knowledge gang on him. Now then you can get the foreman and the guy who will sell you a particular line about the job they do and about the job, the contract. And tell him, and if you're satisfied of this guy. Yeah, they may talk well and they talk very well about the sort of family atmosphere they generate on the site, but this is a load of rubbish. Very many Irish laborers are still hideously exploited, not in terms of money, but in terms of the actual way in which they're treated. You know, they they they they work fantastically hard, the conditions under which they work, inevitably, because this is open civil engineering work, are extremely tough. And they're, they're they're headed like cattle, especially by this Murphy contractor. We were filming this morning in Camden Town where they take off every morning. Is they really are treated like cattle, you see. If you accept the sort of and the view that penetrates at one level, which is the fact that you can get this form and talk well to you on camera. And here is a convincing man. He's an Irishman, you know, he looks Irish, he's a gangster or whatever. You've got through at one level, but you haven't really got through any further. And we have. I haven't got through at all on that on any level, which takes us, me, the audience into the lives of these people at any sort of level that matters. Anybody, any competent director or even incompetent director with a competent cameraman, can go out on a site on a on a civil engineering contract, building a road and make marvelous pictures. You know, these this is exciting stuff. It's wonderful. Well, you know, with the sun against it all looks absolutely lovely and the faces are good and so on. Anybody can do this. And and you're getting it way. But. The shorter the quality of what I get out of this film depends very much on the extent to which you, you, you make people feel that they are, that they're sharing the lives of Irishmen and that they are oppressed by these problems and these feelings.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424#t=6165.23,6424.73"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424/transcript/76734/annotation/145","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e You want to get inserted into the private nightmare of these other people or working down on your debt. Yeah. They're not going to talk to you. Yeah. And this is what this is like.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424#t=6425.39,6436.43"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424/transcript/76734/annotation/146","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e This wouldn't be difficult if one could maintain contact with them one evening in a pub and we'd be friends. There's no doubt about that at all. Even with my sort of upper class accent, this doesn't matter, because one has experience and sympathy and so on. And this is part of your job. You've got to get alongside people quickly. But the difficulty is getting either time or opportunity for establishing this. This you're getting this night in the pub I'm going to sneeze. I hear that. And that's the thing. And the Irish are shyer and more timid of the camera than any people I've encountered anywhere? No one. One reason for this. In a way, it's rather heartbreaking. Reason is that a lot of them are, in fact, evading wives, mistresses, landladies companies that they've gypped. You know, it's tragic, but this is a fact that a lot of them are on. I'm sort of virtually on the run. They're not really on the run, but sort of semi on the run, and that consequently they don't want their faces to be seen and they don't want to talk. They can't. The number of men who we filmed the pay parade, as you might say, up at this side from inside and from outside shooting from the office to the hatch where they connect up, and the number of men who, once they twigged it, stayed behind the edge of the hatch and didn't appear in the opening. Just put their hand through was quite horrifying. Now, this is one reason why it's difficult to get inside the Irish persona, as you might say, but. I also feel that. The one is making up for this by all sort of. But the glibness like an exchange, you know, the exchange between Martin and and and Seamus probably quite probably make amusing television, but it tells you precisely nothing about the about the Irishman. Except that. Well, okay, since the do is fond of music, but this is not a very significant point at that stage of the program or at a at an advanced stage of the program. So that's why I feel dissatisfied. And I, you know, I, I'm, I'm racking my brains to, to find out to, to to think to myself how one can can alter this balance, how one can now get inside the thing. And. Me last night, with the possibility we were down and in a little basement room. All of this man, wonderful talker and his wife and his children. And we set the camera up in the corner and children, completely unabashed, they walk backwards and forwards and put their arms around their father, you know, and said, daddy, I want to do this, you know, and talk to him. And then he talked to me in a, in a, in a remarkable way. Now this this gives you a sense of involvement with the family and especially what he said, which is pretty corrosive, you know, about the conditions in which he works. And about his own feelings and so on. What I haven't got is all right. Is is Diggs. I know what this is. Really. Is that if I had the same self-confidence that I had when I made the change. Which is a self-confidence born of an assurance about the capacity to master the material, which came partly from lack of experience. Partly. I didn't know how. I didn't have this world that didn't worry me. Partly from the personality of Jo anyway, whom I knew. If I'd had this degree of self-confidence, I wouldn't have gone any further than the 9 or 12 faith workers on the night shift of the Victoria line, whom we filmed on our first night. We went down the the Victoria Line tunnel, just that side, 100 yards from Cavendish Square at night on the 530 at 530, just for the night shift goes on at seven. And we stayed down there until the next morning. And no public relations officer, no know engineers came, knows they want to go to bed at night. So we were there and you know, we were able to to do what we could. And when I saw the rashes of that, I thought I ought to drop anything else and make a film about these nine men. And, you know, I just haven't got the courage to do it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424#t=6437.15,6734.17"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424/transcript/76734/annotation/147","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eUnidentified:\u003c/strong\u003e But I don't go crying. Doesn't go far.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424#t=6735.34,6737.77"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424/transcript/76734/annotation/148","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e It could do because these are highly intelligent. These are jolly, intelligent men, you know, the various, the various and remarkable. And if I, if I'd met them a fortnight ago instead of any a weekend for I would have come to this. But you can see from my very the very fact that I say that that my mind, one mind works very slowly, you know, one works very much on preconceptions, in the sense that I find it difficult to change gears three days before always this all to be perfectly adequate. I don't have to change gears. And much more quickly than that, I think therefore this will be I think this will be a half cocked film.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424#t=6744.52,6788.69"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424/transcript/76734/annotation/149","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e It will be on preconceptions of you're not. You didn't know the plan one day. It was something. It took an amount of IRA to go and a certain amount of inclination, you know.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424#t=6792.23,6807.41"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424/transcript/76734/annotation/150","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Yes, yes, yes, it's quite true. But what I mean is the word preconception is wrong. What I mean is that that once one gets an idea about the way it gets one very reluctant to throw it overboard. But I think this is partly because your. Get on your about. You know, camera crew is here on a certain day and you want something solid for them to to work to. And therefore, if three days before they come, a sudden they're faced with the agonizing or indeed after they've come because we chart Tuesday. If your faith then with the with the decision do we junk everything else not worry about the site but but stay with these nine men in the Victoria line. I can think of all sorts of reasons why one shouldn't, because of the sheer by difficulty of keeping track of them, of picking up the threads of their lives which would all go off in different directions. I mean, the very fact that they all walked up in different directions and they came up, but that in itself is a potent, dramatic symbol. You know, they all go off and they all come together at this place. I very often find myself making wrong decisions about that, about this sort of program. I made a film called The Long Journey, which is about. Again, I'm not sure what it was about. It was about it was meant to be about alienated youth. It was meant to be about alienated adolescents. And I made some in Sheffield and. The fifth night I was there in Sheffield, I met a 15 year old girl just coming on live from Liverpool. These are beats ready so called. And this guy was very remarkable. She is Weisz parentage. Her father was a drunken man and she was the most potent central image of this whole film started with her. She appeared in various places and ended with her. But in the in the middle it lost. It's it's from its form and it not degenerated. That's too harsh or bad, but it ran into an examination of of them, of adolescent belief. Instead of staying strongly on her and and remaining with her. And the story of the film being the story of what this girl is like. You know, halfway through the shooting, she tried to kill herself. I mean, she took an effort as a judge, whether this was a theatrical gesture or not, I don't know, but she did. She was Spock, and she would have died if we hadn't walked around. And, you know, and I ought to have done this and I didn't. I made a film which was diffuse and difficult and and difficult in the wrong sense, pretentious and so on. But nonetheless, it gained tremendous. It got the lowest reaction, audience reaction on our sort of Gallup poll system is of any program it ever done. It was a dead one, and it got absolutely slated by my bosses and superiors in television. But I got a tremendous postwar response. I got the most moving letters as a result of that program. Of people who had felt that their lives had been totally revealed by this film. And this is the most extraordinary dichotomy between, you know, certain areas of opinion about a program and others. I get it. Well.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424#t=6807.68,7031.37"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424/transcript/76734/annotation/151","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e Good. We should go eat. One little question was they do you had. No, I had no idea, no break into the school year. Did I mention that? But I don't know.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424#t=7032.09,7042.65"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424/transcript/76734/annotation/152","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Whether that was true about.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424#t=7042.83,7044.0"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424/transcript/76734/annotation/153","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e What you were going to find and what you had to.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424#t=7044.6,7046.16"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424/transcript/76734/annotation/154","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Live on about the Irish script. Oh, no. No, oh, no.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424#t=7046.22,7051.35"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424/transcript/76734/annotation/155","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e Complaining about no research time. Did you spend any research time at all beforehand?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424#t=7052.82,7056.54"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424/transcript/76734/annotation/156","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Oh, yes. I had a month.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424#t=7057.74,7058.4"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424/transcript/76734/annotation/157","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e You did spend them? Yes, I.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424#t=7059.18,7060.11"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424/transcript/76734/annotation/158","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Did spend a month. A week of this was in Ireland and I had three weeks down here.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424#t=7060.23,7065.28"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424/transcript/76734/annotation/159","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e We were shooting. Not shooting.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424#t=7066.03,7066.87"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424/transcript/76734/annotation/160","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e No, no, not shooting until now.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424#t=7067.77,7070.01"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424/transcript/76734/annotation/161","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e One thing I'd like to know. You know what you're doing. Has the film taken its form yet? Are you in your mind or are you still exploring the material?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424#t=7071.37,7080.23"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424/transcript/76734/annotation/162","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Oh, there is a script. Yes, yes, yes, there is a script. It doesn't bear much relationship to the to the material as it exists. I always do a script and insist on the other script.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424#t=7082.2,7100.92"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424/transcript/76734/annotation/163","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e Before you shot or whatever.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424#t=7101.55,7102.45"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424/transcript/76734/annotation/164","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah, I do that because a camera crew is faced by a script is always much happier, even though they don't read the script. They sort of feel that somebody knows what's going to happen, right? As they couldn't be wrong, you know? But I always believe in giving a camera to a script, although I've never known a cameraman yet. If he read it, he understood it. He doesn't understand it and doesn't want to add anything. But if there's a if there's a bundle of paper, then you can say that the script by the end of the schedule, they feel the things on the right track. You know, they always write a script and also it's variable for you.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424#t=7103.14,7139.21"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424/transcript/76734/annotation/165","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e But I mean, I would like to know that, you know, what you're going to do next week with next week. Yeah. Finishing the shooting.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424#t=7142.6,7150.58"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424/transcript/76734/annotation/166","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, I go to Ireland tomorrow night.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424#t=7151.9,7153.34"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424/transcript/76734/annotation/167","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e You do have certain areas where you know, you're.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424#t=7154.9,7156.64"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424/transcript/76734/annotation/168","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Oh, absolutely. Yes, yes. Well, they've got to be because, you know, you don't have to make administrative arrangements. But I fly to and I'm recording the music all day tomorrow. I fly to Ireland tomorrow night at 1120. We drive from Dublin to over on the west side during Saturday, and I'm filming some scenes on the way. You know, the resistance here is of our history. Various scenes that I've seen on my way over that a couple of times. We get to we get to Connemara on Saturday night, and then on Sunday and Monday I'm filming with this family of fishermen, the Fisher family. And. And then on the Tuesday, I want to go up into the mountains and do sort of.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424#t=7156.85,7210.62"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424/transcript/76734/annotation/169","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e These are things you sort of projected. But had they been planned before you began shooting at all, or were they things that grew out of your shooting investigation?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424#t=7210.95,7217.43"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424/transcript/76734/annotation/170","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Oh, no. These are things that were planned before the shooting. Absolutely. These are part these are the resolution of my research. The the the the process of deciding how the program was going to be, how I reckoned it was going to be made. And this is the the difference is I'm not going to be paid. I'm not going to pay. By the time I finished my research. Right. I, I saw the program as a. As not falling structurally into two halves, but materially into two halves. One half was the evocation of a particular family living in the far west of Ireland. The. The aim of this was to, was to demonstrate the sort of conditions from which Irishmen come to do the sort of work that we're that we know about here. Well, I wanted to examine this because one wanted to another and to say, could look at this. Isn't it awful or how pathetic, but to underline the sort of values, once again, one is trying to pose a, a question of of of of value. You know, if you come over here like a bulldozer, what are you gaining? You know, gaining money. What are you losing? Well, what are you losing? You know, for audiences. So here is this material which. I think might be short a frame or two fast so that the thing is all is very slightly slowed down, not so much as to affect the sync sound, but just as to give it a slightly slowed down effect. And and it will be shot in a particular style. The camera will be will be static. There'll be no attempt to follow subjects every every scene. As I say, it will be a set up scene, even though the movement inside the frame is, of course, you know, so it's people walking or talking or whatever. There will be attempts to Highlight certain aspects of of activity which are common to both, but played out against different background, such as the the hands that the hands of of other man fastening steel reinforcement for concreting on a red bridge. Similar hand to those that are holding the nets on a boat on the upper coast.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424#t=7218.12,7377.99"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424/transcript/76734/annotation/171","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e Over the their past of their origins.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424#t=7379.4,7381.47"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424/transcript/76734/annotation/172","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Yes. Yes yes.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424#t=7382.4,7383.93"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424/transcript/76734/annotation/173","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e Contradiction and.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424#t=7384.56,7385.16"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424/transcript/76734/annotation/174","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Similarity. Yeah. Now then the the the continuation of this thought is that 1 to 1 is establish this family. And one of the boys of this family is coming to London, and we follow him from his home to Dublin, onto the boat, on the train and to London. And, and this is intercut with the, with the English material and as I see it, the sort of semi final scene of the film is this by coming out into London and out of Euston station. Now, by that time we shall have we shall have played out the whole sort of drama. What happens to men when they're over here?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424#t=7385.25,7426.36"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424/transcript/76734/annotation/175","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e And then we will have understood what will weigh upon, you know.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424#t=7426.75,7429.15"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424/transcript/76734/annotation/176","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Yes, yes, I hope so.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424#t=7429.55,7430.71"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424/transcript/76734/annotation/177","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e You figure a style. Do you envisage a kind of style of filming, framing up use of the camera, or is it what you can use in the way you can get?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424#t=7431.67,7442.53"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424/transcript/76734/annotation/178","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e No, I don't, I don't only a broad sort of technical style in the sense that the English material and stuff that we've been shooting for the past week is.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424#t=7443.34,7454.98"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424/transcript/76734/annotation/179","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e All.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424#t=7455.34,7455.34"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424/transcript/76734/annotation/180","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Highly fluid and. You know, the style of the thing is, is vigorous and and and and involved. You're there in the canteen With the chaps involved in the concert. You're there in the concrete plant. You'll be down in the trench watching the the thing come down on to in the in the Irish material. I want to stand aside from this and to observe it happening so that in a sense it has a rather more unreal. You're not you're not a participant in it. Because the, the, the resolution of this is, is that I see this material being used sometimes in a sort of memory context, and maybe some of the flashbacks, as it were to Ireland, will be from by looking into the future in the canteen or somebody. Relaxing on the site. You know, I don't know, of course, until I've shot the Irish material. But this is how it goes so that there there are two blocks of material, the Irish stuff, which is, plot wise, the life of a family. Boy leaves the family and comes to London. And the material on the site, which is a material in England which is the Victoria line, intensely had undergone work on the Elstree site, which is above ground standards of the civil works, but full of action and vigor and sunlight. It's all shot slightly overexposed. There's a lot of sun and light in it, and contrasting very much for the very, very black Victoria line. Largely my own fault for for forgetting to order the right sort of blood at I mean, not telling them. No, but.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424#t=7457.53,7564.02"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424/transcript/76734/annotation/181","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e You know.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424#t=7564.47,7565.34"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424/transcript/76734/annotation/182","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e And. Now, welding this together will be a traditional song, The Rocks of Bourne, which describes how a man, a man's heart is broken in the far West because he can't by the rocks the whole of this western seaboard and an intensely rocky and a modern, rewritten version of this. Which describes the photo to the same two, and then some of the same sort of lyrics. Describes what happens to him over here, and when we're using some rewritten versions of traditional Irish songs which are being sung by traditional Irish singers. Now these, I hope that the effect of this will be to weld these two elements together. And make a film which moves. Very strongly between two sort of emotional poles, between the reflective and the traditional and the the the harsh and technological world into which these chaps move. But this is articulating it rather strongly. And.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424#t=7566.45,7639.15"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424/transcript/76734/annotation/183","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, I think we had to go to dinner.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424#t=7640.23,7640.98"}]},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424/transcript/76734","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["English [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262424/transcript/76734/annotation/184","type":"Annotation","motivation":"subtitling","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/file_transcripts/associated_files/000/076/734/original/trint_Coll458_jb0068_Watkins_Gill_01_transcript.vtt?1740616609","format":"text/vtt","language":"en"},"target":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/file_transcripts/associated_files/000/076/734/original/trint_Coll458_jb0068_Watkins_Gill_01_transcript.vtt?1740616609"}]}]},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423","type":"Canvas","label":{"en":["Media File 2 of 3 - Coll458_jb0068_Watkins_Gill_02_p1.mp3"]},"duration":7609.93959,"width":640,"height":360,"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/public/images/audio-default.png","type":"Image","format":"image/png"}],"items":[{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/content/1","type":"AnnotationPage","items":[{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/content/2/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"painting","body":{"id":"https://aviary-p-universityoforegonlibraries.s3.wasabisys.com/collection_resource_files/resource_files/000/262/423/original/Coll458_jb0068_Watkins_Gill_02_p1.mp3?1739228303","type":"Audio","format":"audio/mpeg","duration":7609.93959,"width":640,"height":360},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423","metadata":[]}]}],"annotations":[{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["AUTO_TRINT_Coll458_jb0068_Watkins_Gill_02_p1.mp3 [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e At least gives you a certain power to find out how to talk to Jamis or have some inkling in which direction What you've got it from experience","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=5.51,14.97"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/2","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e One of the interesting things here is the stage at which you...","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=16.97,23.49"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/3","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e At which your bloody route yeah which came about about an hour or so in after you've gotten them going on Tuesday","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=24.08,33.28"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/4","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 3:\u003c/strong\u003e We're near the waterworks, so we want to get to them. This looks like the water works for me. Waterworks? Yes, there's actually a waterworks here.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=37.04,44.32"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/5","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 4:\u003c/strong\u003e We're in the car, he's running around scouring out, trying to find locations. We're on his sort of overlander.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=50.5,57.36"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/6","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 5:\u003c/strong\u003e Oh hell, this is terrible. You mentioned it to me later earlier. Yes I know, but I suddenly, suddenly, I suddenly slipped out of my mouth.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=62.57,69.03"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/7","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e I've got a cousin who is a psychologist with the Canadian Ministry of Defense, and I was talking to him about this a couple of years ago when he was in England. What do you mean about the meeting of people? Yes, no, about forms of questioning, about procedures. In establishing relationships with people, which is terribly important, obviously, to a psychiatrist. It impressed me enormously then, here we are, 128 Ivy Road, it impressed me enormously then how incredibly... Uninformed, I was, you know, that we tend to proceed absolutely on a question of individual genius, and I'm using genius in the sense of... In the, in the sense of...","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=69.99,132.27"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/8","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 6:\u003c/strong\u003e Is that our intuition or what? Yes.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=132.43,133.83"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/9","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Yes, that one learns the job, not in any codified way, but if you happen to have the right aptitudes and the right way of thinking about things, you fall into it. You know, it ought to be possible. It ought to perfectly possible for young men who are coming into the documentary as there are in television, in England anyway. To understand how one makes approaches and to learn the forms which, God knows, you know, in market research, in advertising and so on, people codify these forms absolutely so the wrong word is never used in an advertisement as far as can be humanly predicted. Now, it ought to be perfectly possible for some... Perfectly ordinary young man from a southern English environment to learn enough in a workshop for him to go with reasonable confidence into a gathering of northern miners. This is the extreme sort of form and be reasonably sure that he's not going to make a of himself. It can be easy in the English class system. For a young man who looks different, I mean, he really does, you know, he's smooth-cheeked, he's... There's something definably different about him. And as soon as he opens his mouth, his voice gives him away. Just as my voice gives me away, as soon I talk to anybody in England, my voice gives me a way they know.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=133.68,242.66"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/10","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 5:\u003c/strong\u003e What does that say? Educated, upper, middle class? Yes, yes.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=242.56,246.36"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/11","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e I am the sort of person that normally gives the orders. In order to make that enormous transposition, that I am in fact on their side, you've got to accomplish some sort of change, and this is on the whole very difficult, because to most English people. All their years of education and upbringing tell them that a man that speaks like this is not interested in their individual problems and their individual lives. This is not just political prejudice. I mean, he can't be, because he's a boss and he hasn't got time for that sort of thing, and I've never met a man like this, and therefore I know that he isn't, that these men that talk like this aren't like that. I remember particularly when I was doing this film on shipbuilding in Sunderland. That um... I spoke to the general manager of the yard, well this is quite easy, he said well you have the run of the place if you want to make this film, but you must square this with the shop stewards. Well I met two representatives of the shop steward and I told them what I was trying to do and I hadn't, this was right at the beginning, I had no idea actually what I was going to do, but I tell them what I was trying to do. Which was to try and catch something of the sort of traditional quality of shipbuilding in Sunland. Sunland was the place where the great clipper ships of the 1850s and 1860s were built. The composite ships, iron and wood. Sunland Clipper was a byword for a really stiff, staunch ship. This is ultimately why I called the program Sunland Oak, because Sunland oak today is steel, really. One tried to make this sort of... Anyway. So I met these shop stewards and told them what I was doing. The great thing, now this again tends to sound priggish, but if you're asking me, I must be honest about it. The first consideration is that you've got to be honest. You really got to care about this, you know, haven't you? You can't, people are not easily kidded. You can carry it on for so long, but... You know, you've got to care, that's the answer, and people who don't care really can't go on doing this sort of thing. The first thing that I try to convince people of is that I really care about this. I really am care about their situation, about what their life is like. Usually I have a sort of sense myself of of protest about it, political protest about not very strong, this is not the prime motive power which drives me in any sense at all, but part of one's view of the situation. This is the prime consideration and once you show people that you're honest, this a great step forward. Well, anyway, on this occasion, yes these two or three shop stewards said, right, well, if you would like to come to the meeting of the shop stewards on Monday morning, we have a meeting every Monday. But they said, if you would come at quarter to 9, we have our confidential business first of all, and then if you'd come along after that, we should be very pleased to. So I said, okay, fine. So I went along. I was profoundly inhibited by this. I wasn't going to be left out of the deliberations up till quarter to nine. You know, this was half an hour or something. In which they were discussing things that profoundly concerned me. So I went along to quarter nine and we sat there and we talked about various minutiae of the yard and so on. And at the end I said I asked permission to speak and said well I was extremely flattered that they'd allowed me to come in and so but that I must be honest with them and say that... I, you know, if I was going to represent this shipyard accurately, then I had to see the thing from the beginning, and there was no question of going into committee at the beginning that I had be accepted totally as a member of the shop stewards committee. If they didn't believe that I was a person who was wholly concerned in the thing, then they must leave me out. But if they were prepared to grant me this... Facility, then I must be there from the beginning. So, anyway, this caused a bit of debate and they agreed that I should come in. And from then on I went to all the Monday morning meetings and this wasn't particularly valuable from the point of view of the program. The point is that when you're involved in research in any specific place, a shipyard or a building site or a factory or however different this factory is, it's a modern... Car production line, or whether it's an old, highly traditionalized glassworks, or whether it is whatever it is, you know, a ministry come to that. The aim, one's no aim, and the doctrine that one tries to put out is that you're not only getting to know these people yourself, but allowing them to get to know you. Because who the hell is this man to come along here and impose himself on the world? Of course television has enormous pull in this country. You know, the BBC has a status quality which is terribly valuable. And television has the sort of romantic quality and when they meet somebody from television, this has a sort of pull. But above all, you get results in filming if they know you, not if you know them. If they know you, and if they know what you're involved in, and they feel they can talk to you freely and openly and so on, this sounds trifle, peculiar. But the other day, for instance, just before we started shooting on this civil engineering site up on the M1, the motorway, I met the foreman, and I said, well, we're starting on Monday, and he said, have you asked the chaps? I said, what do you mean? I assume that they know roughly what I'm doing, and well, he said yes, I've had one or two people who are not terribly keen on being filmed. Perhaps you ought to ask them, but of course I felt that he oughtn't really to have had to say that. I ought to have planned to anyway, but it's slightly a bashing getting up in a canteen of 80 men and sort of assuming they're interested enough to listen to you wasting their dinner hour explaining this film that you're making, but anyway, I'd misjudged the Irish. I did. So the following dinner time I got up and... Hammered on the table and said, and spoke for 10 minutes or so. And said, of course, that anybody who didn't want to, I made a joke of it, didn't wanna appear on television, would they tell us? Because there was no question about it. Will they be cut out? And said the various areas in which they could be of help and told them what we were doing. And the incredible thing was that when I finished, in this sort of terribly highfalutin sort of accent, this terribly distancing accent in England, the way I speak, you know. When I'd finished this rather gauche sort of public school sort of thing, they all burst into applause. They all clapped, you see, which It was quite staggering and, you know, in the... That they're encouraging.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=249.45,765.04"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/12","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 6:\u003c/strong\u003e What have you done?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=766.98,767.48"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/13","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Well now you can just talk, tell them tell them what you're doing but they applauded, I couldn't, you know very much well let's go get you out of here","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=768.33,779.49"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/14","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 7:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, he did have come from the, well, Blood and Fire, and days before Christmas, and it was about Salvation Army. He did, yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=784.58,799.99"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/15","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 3:\u003c/strong\u003e Something that I call the back-breaking leap. This is 1954. This is 1945.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=801.88,809.82"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/16","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e There's a man in my seat. He's here. Just plain plain plain for ABC","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=814.07,820.11"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/17","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 3:\u003c/strong\u003e This is, uh, this is an extraordinary thing.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=823.71,825.65"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/18","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e He devised this himself, presumably.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=834.99,836.65"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/19","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 8:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, yes, of course.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=837.68,838.4"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/20","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e He doesn't talk to us.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=838.58,839.48"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/21","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 8:\u003c/strong\u003e I don't know what people are saying, but he's uh, he believes in a, kind of constantly assuring. For instance, he shot some of the most dramatic and spectacular shots in Lee Park's primary, on the, uh... Oh yeah?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=839.51,852.57"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/22","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 6:\u003c/strong\u003e Kennedy, you know, in Wisconsin.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=853.91,855.93"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/23","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e It was angry? No, no, no. Angry, but the train drivers are passing by, and here we are, parked in the middle of the road.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=859.89,868.13"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/24","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 6:\u003c/strong\u003e I still can't get over the sides of the road when it works, huh? You were turning over into an American when I even went along.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=870.22,877.44"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/25","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e I'm backing this up to no meaning... Oh! That's a tree. Oh, it's alright. Don't worry. I should get this right in a minute. Try and think, talk and drive the same way. What the hell was it? Just drive. Fortunately, this is constructed of solid iron. Whoa!","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=877.77,898.73"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/26","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e We're away Yeah, but I mean this idea of talking, you know, you know where you're going now, see that?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=900.57,909.93"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/27","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e We'll see you over somewhere up here. First crossroads, I think.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=911.97,914.27"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/28","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 3:\u003c/strong\u003e Is that it? Yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=916.87,917.73"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/29","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Where the impact is really good.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=926.08,927.5"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/30","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 7:\u003c/strong\u003e What do you do when you get a woman that won't talk like this?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=929.12,931.24"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/31","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 3:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, with her anyway, you can use this, is there anything you can do?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=931.93,934.93"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/32","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e As straight as you can. Now, what about...","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=936.04,940.78"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/33","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e Oh, that's gonna be great. What? Do you like, um... Greek curry? Oh, I'd love a good curry. I doubt we'll get a good one, but uh...","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=941.69,951.41"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/34","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 8:\u003c/strong\u003e I mean, some of them I've had, I figured were not good courage because they were so flat.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=951.93,957.85"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/35","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e No, no, I couldn't do that. You couldn't change your accent.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=966.26,968.78"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/36","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e How would I change my hair? I don't know how you would do shit like that. Ha ha ha! I mean, I can't tell you.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=971.349,981.46"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/37","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 8:\u003c/strong\u003e It's a very clear accent to me. Yeah. It sounds a little arched, like most educated English accents sound to me, but that's just an American point of view. We sound kind of duller to me","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=981.97,994.67"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/38","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e I don't know what I said, I don' think, but um, well I f***ing call this an Indian restaurant.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=995.03,1001.69"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/39","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e I have to tell the fans that I was a little wet.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=1004.62,1006.66"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/40","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 6:\u003c/strong\u003e Thank you for coming down to London and where I live right now. Would you like some water? Yes, thank you.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=1007.03,1015.77"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/41","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e And then... Anyway, I was detached in the civil service way for four months. And the week after four, I had to come down on attachment. I saw on the front page of the Namaskar Guardian a picture of this steelworks sight from the air of Dhokapur, India, Bengal. When I looked at this picture, I thought, well, you know, there's a marvelous film here. But this was only a sort of visceral response to what I knew must be there. But I went up to London the following Monday, and with this worked out. You had the idea of the film already? Just from a few images. Well, from that picture in the garden.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=1017.26,1071.23"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/42","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 9:\u003c/strong\u003e Bye!","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=1073.18,1073.18"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/43","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e And, um, I arrived in the office, this was Grace Widow and Goldie, on Monday morning. And, uh, I had an idea for a film in India. Well, within a week, I was in India, um... Doing a film. This is the second film I'd made after the day of the change day. This was your second film? This is your second. And, I forget what point I was going to make.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=1075.1,1102.2"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/44","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 9:\u003c/strong\u003e That is not true.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=1104.85,1105.51"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/45","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 6:\u003c/strong\u003e We're talking about an old documentary, Trains. Oh, yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=1106.47,1110.09"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/46","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah, you know, it was unprepared, but it's also like, I don't know if it's a good one.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=1113.04,1122.0"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/47","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 9:\u003c/strong\u003e Oh, yes. Yes, yes, yes The only separation I made...","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=1123.58,1128.42"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/48","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e The only preparation I made was to, I thought, Jesus, I want to catch up on some of the films I would have seen, isn't it? And I saw Jennings. Do you want to listen to Britain? No, I don't think so. Words for battle. Which is quite irrelevant, but Farman, as far as it started. Anything else? Long, long time. And I don't know whether this had any effect, I think he's a great man, but I was tremendously impressed when I first saw it by family portrait, who's he now? It was enormously moving, and then I saw it again, and I suddenly thought, no, this is a bundle of old bullshit. You know, all he's doing is crying a conventional romantic line about Witten. There's no real Witten in this film at all. Dairy for Timothy is very much that. Well, Dairy to Timothy is hell, it's called, but, uh... I can't, I really can't stand that anymore, well, I've seen it once, but yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=1126.61,1202.82"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/49","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 6:\u003c/strong\u003e You were a bit akin to really what everybody liked, the look to the battle field. And we appreciate, Jenny, for that extent, the capturing of that kind of heroic spirit. Yeah, yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=1207.03,1218.43"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/50","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Yes, but family portrait wasn't done on those lines. Family portrait was a much more conventional view of a country that was a great...","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=1220.7,1230.92"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/51","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 9:\u003c/strong\u003e Hang on, all right?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=1232.18,1232.82"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/52","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e I think plenty, I mean, it's really daft to say that Britain was really united as a family in 1951 when we were convulsed with all sorts of internal troubles which would have borne examination. There's no need to say this. There's new need to assume that everything is all right. And this is the great strength, it seems to me, although I may be wrong, that in literature... We're in all sorts of fields of art. America has a tradition of self-criticism, which Britain hasn't. The reaction to something that's rather nasty in America seems to be to, okay, pull it out, let's have a look at it. You know, either they make feature films, whether they're bad or good, or people write angry articles about it. But in Britain, it's, um... Well, look, we really must all put our shoulder to the wheel. I mean, it's a good thing we should change this, but let's not talk about it in public. I mean it's much better done under cover. And anyway, and this has been absorbed completely by most middle-class artists. Certainly in the film world, certainly the Sarl Dickens and the Basil Wrights, the Humphrey Jennings have absorbed this concept. But you don't make films of social protest in Britain. And to do it is to make jocular, custom-made films. But don't you think that both... Yes, of course, yes, yes of course I do, yes. But this is, these are very much the work of an individual, aren't they? Jennings certainly didn't sustain this. What I'm talking about really is the family portrait in which one was presented with this bland image. Drake's mirror and all this, and the white cliffs of Dover and men plowing the soil and the Thurn Abbas giant and all those... The what? The Thurn abbas giant, you know, this great... You know, do you remember in that, Now I'm just two tops from there. The peat walking on the plier there, and it's total to see these men on the hand and up on the hillside with this giant two-stick. Marvelously handled. But you know, these are parts of the truth which is really much more interesting than just the outward manifestations of it. I mean, to know these... The troubles that have convoked the Darwin mining industry. You can see through the Darwin mine of Gala. Have you seen Gala day, Gala Day, Mithras? No, I haven't. You know, if anyone could make a film with sort of... This is why this film about Westminster Abbey at the time, I'm going to make.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=1233.8,1413.86"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/53","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 9:\u003c/strong\u003e Nor one of these.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=1415.71,1416.67"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/54","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 6:\u003c/strong\u003e What do you want to do with what's going on? I've received a straight accolade.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=1421.51,1423.67"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/55","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Mmm, that'll be funny.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=1424.03,1425.47"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/56","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 9:\u003c/strong\u003e Have a good one. Time to respect that, don't show me that.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=1427.15,1433.4"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/57","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e A couple of years ago, 18 months ago, I was... Do you know John Reed?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=1440.45,1443.63"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/58","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 6:\u003c/strong\u003e No, I just got an introduction to him. I haven't met him yet.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=1444.97,1449.01"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/59","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 9:\u003c/strong\u003e Nightmare. Nightmare?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=1451.79,1454.83"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/60","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Oh, no","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=1456.34,1456.76"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/61","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 9:\u003c/strong\u003e Thanks for watching!","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=1457.39,1457.97"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/62","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e That is when John leaves office one afternoon","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=1458.59,1460.63"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/63","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 9:\u003c/strong\u003e No. He's a-","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=1460.71,1465.23"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/64","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e He said, I want to make a film on Westminster Abbey. Yeah, that's right, that-","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=1464.85,1469.48"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/65","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 10:\u003c/strong\u003e I didn't know it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=1470.35,1470.89"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/66","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Nah, it was all a big joke. He ain't been given a nice job to do. He wasn't really offering me the job.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=1470.92,1477.12"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/67","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 3:\u003c/strong\u003e Don't","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=1483.02,1483.02"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/68","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e He was an impeccable filmmaker, and in many ways quite profound filmmaker in terms of art.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=1485.17,1490.63"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/69","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 9:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, I've been off of the...","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=1491.98,1494.1"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/70","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, I've been asked to do a film on Westminster Abbey for the 900th anniversary of Westminster Abbeys to be the BBC's great film.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=1494.55,1502.25"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/71","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 9:\u003c/strong\u003e I was gonna do it that way.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=1504.04,1505.08"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/72","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Abbey Church where all the kings and queens of England have been crowned and so on and so forth, everybody's buried there. So I thought, lucky, I'm not going to do that. I was timed for that time.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=1506.73,1528.07"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/73","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 9:\u003c/strong\u003e Thank you. You're welcome.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=1528.86,1529.5"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/74","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e It has a sort of yobbo from the middle ends, you see. A yobo. A yopbo. And a rough neck. I knew there was no problem with that.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=1530.29,1551.34"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/75","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 5:\u003c/strong\u003e To it, bro.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=1555.93,1556.61"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/76","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e John Ragnarok, somebody Ragnorok. John couldn't stick with Westminster, I think he would have liked to do it. Well, I accept it before even thinking about it. It is a bit daunting, but it's going to be no one's budget for a BBC program. We're going to have the dollar. And, um...","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=1558.91,1589.49"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/77","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 9:\u003c/strong\u003e So I've accepted. You have?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=1590.87,1593.65"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/78","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e This is a real Jennings subject, in fact. You can just imagine Jennings doing Westminster Abbey after the wonderful film he'd have made, too. Wonderful film. Goodness, how...","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=1595.36,1606.94"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/79","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 6:\u003c/strong\u003e You don't have any idea what you're going to do with it, do you? None, none at all. Why do you, what makes you think that it's wonderful? That's the first thing I've ever done. I can't imagine anything else. When I say it's right, it's not bad. Because the Abbey's are","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=1608.13,1623.01"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/80","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e No, it's an ugly place really, full of a conglomeration of monuments. Well, part of the place is always absolutely swimming with people. You know, this is not an abbey in any real sense, I mean, it's a sort of museum, it is a national museum which has its added sanctity of being a church, and of people being buried in it, and people walk around it all the time, it´s a sort of saturation of people all the time, their feet, their voices, it is soft and sustained all the time, absolutely fantastic, and quite Apart from that, there's sort of the, the, um... The Abbey organization. It's fantastic and ridiculous, these men, these pellets and whatnot, it so happens that I have two very good friends who are on the staff here, one of them is the organist, he's an old friend of mine, and one of him is the Senior Cannon, who is a Marxist. Senior what? Senior Cannon. What is that? But a canon is a priest, a senior priest who's on the staff of an abbey or a cathedral. And this man is a senior canon. And he's a remarkably politically conscious and highly articulate man. And now, thank you. And, um, so this, this gives us a basis to have a, to work on. But it's a terrifying prospect, there's no doubt about that.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=1624.42,1741.84"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/81","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 6:\u003c/strong\u003e I would be absolutely fucking the best if I had to do this, wasn't it? I'd be knowing what she's going to be, I mean...","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=1743.99,1752.43"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/82","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e This is a great thing, but just think of the notoriety in the business, if in fact one's film is scurrilous and it's not shown. You know, it's in copies.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=1752.58,1765.52"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/83","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 6:\u003c/strong\u003e Oh, yeah. Yeah. It would really be the thing. Wouldn't it? It would be what I was looking for. You'd be in a cine club or something like that. McFunger's Hotel in Denver is there. I haven't seen it. I'm not there. Where the whole thing passed the Army, because it was marvelous, it was everything they wanted. Friends who had done so much what they wanted, and he turned it to ridicule, you know? And it's very subtly so. And it wasn't until the critics got ahold of the film, so what a marvel it was.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=1766.209,1804.77"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/84","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Now he's coming around. Jeremy's not alright.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=1806.85,1808.93"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/85","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 9:\u003c/strong\u003e Thank you.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=1809.37,1810.05"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/86","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Is it true that Hugh got a Hepna? Didn't the National Film Board of Canada make a film about Hugh got Hepnas? But General Heffner showed it to everybody that came in to play by chance until someone pointed out to him that it was an attack.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=1812.02,1829.33"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/87","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 6:\u003c/strong\u003e I don't know whether he did not know the fact, he did know that.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=1832.07,1836.83"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/88","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 9:\u003c/strong\u003e I'm sorry, I'm so sorry.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=1837.16,1838.1"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/89","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 6:\u003c/strong\u003e He did like it, that I heard. I hadn't heard, I hadn' heard that he felt that the attack was bad. It was shown all over the United States in a lot of cities. Really? Was it an NCB? National Frembo production? It was two men from the National Fembo. What was the NationalFembo name? The Most. It was called The Most? Yeah. Winds up calling himself a Judas.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=1838.22,1871.49"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/90","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 9:\u003c/strong\u003e Bye-bye.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=1872.36,1872.36"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/91","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 6:\u003c/strong\u003e And they sort of let Heffman destroy himself by cutting in shots of his daily life with his descriptions of how he lived, you know? Yes. Most of his days are black girls. Well, I mean, a businessman, sort of trying to con girls into things, and you know. So there's stuff with him going on, you now. Very, very much. Very seedy. No, but his, but then his energy was being very, you known, justified. No, I think he was the greatest, sort of a cashless place, like a paragon, sort of thing. And he was very sharp, but he just killed himself in the book, apparently. The mazes objected hardly to it. They felt it was intended to destroy it. And, uh, I felt that this was not going to set us up, so I'm being honest, I'm making the sound. No, what about... It was probably the most successful one. Well, only by a question of the other kind. What is this?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=1876.24,1943.11"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/92","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e No, no. You'd eat it as a sort of first course. It's a bit thin, but it's fine.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=1944.14,1953.52"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/93","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 6:\u003c/strong\u003e Right, do see you. Oh, well, that's the only boy with Cunningh and Schreuter, and... Well, I talked to Cunning by, I mean, Canada last summer, I think. Yeah. They're going to turn it into fire. They felt they were putting the relationship in the sort of salient aspects that they felt. The things that... Oh, of course, yeah. But I mean all the information this guy says is fantastic. You know, Paul Rankin is the greatest thing the world has ever known in the last 500 years. I would, too. Let it reveal itself, yeah. That would be fantastic to see in the night club. You know, the kiss and all that, don't you? Oh, yeah, but I thought this was very dubious. Um, this is one of those scenes that were staged, and then turned into something that wasn't staged, because everybody admitted the artifice, you know? I'm going to say that this is not going to be recorded anymore. That wasn't the case, so it somehow made the scene, made that switch, you know, contact.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=1953.99,2038.2"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/94","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e But I've heard this described so many times before I saw it. And when I saw, it didn't seem to me to make the point. I was told that this alienated one completely from the fat man. Whereas I thought in a way he took it rather well.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=2041.8,2057.51"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/95","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 6:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, it wasn't so much the strike law, or even the manager, I mean, these guys, that's mostly French-based system, read that into, there you go. They wanted it at any price, you know, to make a big thing out of it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=2061.92,2080.78"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/96","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 9:\u003c/strong\u003e Good person, isn't it?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=2084.92,2085.98"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/97","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 3:\u003c/strong\u003e They're very valuable, but they do resolve things for all time.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=2088.239,2095.02"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/98","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 6:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah, when you find out that that really wasn't it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=2097.529,2100.09"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/99","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 9:\u003c/strong\u003e I believe that I made it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=2100.29,2100.49"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/100","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 6:\u003c/strong\u003e I believe that in making that film, he was making it somehow.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=2110.15,2112.51"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/101","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 9:\u003c/strong\u003e It's alright.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=2112.98,2114.1"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/102","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 6:\u003c/strong\u003e Which has a universal theme to be related to the myth of Ctesius and the Minotaur. This is a cynics kind of thing.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=2117.35,2126.55"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/103","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 9:\u003c/strong\u003e It's very interesting, it's a very interesting thing.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=2128.39,2130.49"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/104","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 6:\u003c/strong\u003e A quiet, timid man. I was nervous.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=2131.6,2133.88"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/105","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 9:\u003c/strong\u003e Thank you very much.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=2134.63,2135.43"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/106","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 6:\u003c/strong\u003e When I first met him. He was director, wasn't he? Well, he shot it too. He's director and shot it. He had a sound man. Basically, he's a camera man, or basically he's director. He's a director, but he's become a director too. While I'm a Canadian film bar, it really doesn't matter.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=2136.96,2154.48"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/107","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 3:\u003c/strong\u003e I don't know what I'm talking about. You, uh...","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=2154.82,2156.78"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/108","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 6:\u003c/strong\u003e Sometimes you get director's credit and then you get camera's credit, but you're usually doing both at the same time. Croyder kind of helped in the organization. And I think how he added the sound, I don't know if you've heard that. And then just went out and shot. And all the shooting, I think maybe a little tiny bit. Who was the collaborator you were saying? Freuder, Roman Freuder. And what's he doing? Well, as a kind of a, he gets produced at a production festival, but actually he's, Freuder's kind of the thinker of it too. And they almost always work together. Although Freuder is directed too. They sometimes work together sort of as a team. Porter kind of has the overall philosophy, but he has more of the instinct. The whole idea behind it is man's struggle to become something, and then his final failure.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=2158.819,2232.95"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/109","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 9:\u003c/strong\u003e I don't know what to do.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=2233.5,2234.26"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/110","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 6:\u003c/strong\u003e In his final acceptance of what Breyer said, uh, Cunningham said in his Final Acceptance of Sex. All of this, I said, was very hard. I wouldn't be able to interpret that from a film, particularly. But knowing that, I could probably go back and interpret the film, you know. I can't. Yeah, yeah, but it's just that we feel that this is the feasiest myth. You know, it's hard to believe you're still playing with documentary. But the thesis is that it dominates structure, film structure. It dominates the content. The things you're looking for in the content, and they said that we feel that all effective films have this myth behind them. His thesis, his belief in life, his struggle for his final battle and his failure, and then a kind of a celebration of the qualities of man.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=2234.4,2294.82"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/111","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 9:\u003c/strong\u003e Boom, boom.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=2296.14,2297.04"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/112","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 6:\u003c/strong\u003e Accidentally, I have this. Yeah, all effective films. This is sort of the, this is inherent to the structure of the film.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=2298.97,2308.23"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/113","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 9:\u003c/strong\u003e That's all I have to say for now.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=2308.43,2309.79"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/114","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 6:\u003c/strong\u003e He felt. It got moved. In a sense, the mental features in the minotaur And it's a very exciting thing. It's a thing that's pooh-poohed by a lot of people, but it's funny, it's nice to know these things about human way of thinking. And they've created something. The tool is such a point that in the exposition, the World Fair for 1967, they're working on the Canadian, or the Canada Air exposition which is being done by the National Film Board. Colin Lowe, Roman Croyder, and Tony's part of the working group. That is it. It's an exposition, which will be done in some of them with multiple screens on several steps.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=2310.62,2364.77"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/115","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Magic Mansion, check. Thanks for watching!","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=2365.97,2377.05"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/116","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 6:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, we were already petrified, and... No, I see it. And we did. Me in the loop.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=2380.29,2387.7"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/117","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Lightweight, lightweight? Yes, I mean, you have a handheld... This is a band camera, isn't it? That records picture and sound. And you can take it out like a piece of tape. Take this pool out and leave it there and put it on the machine playback. Or, indeed, just as with the Euro, you've got a playback for the instrument there. And, um, you just play it back and there's a microphone and I'd speak of that.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=2388.45,2416.45"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/118","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 6:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, I'm not going forward, further than that, even. Go ahead, excuse me. Go on, see what I'm up to. I'm waiting for the day when... We hook it up with our own audio and sensory equipment, you know? And skip things like lenses and more or less didn't. I think it's going to be very impossible. I mean, you know, a brain laser or something that would create impossible.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=2422.87,2451.07"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/119","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 9:\u003c/strong\u003e Thank you very much.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=2451.97,2452.49"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/120","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 6:\u003c/strong\u003e And then we're going to have some trouble, you know, because it's going to be... I'm in trouble now. Esthetics and ethics and all of that. Yeah, yeah. And then, especially when it gets to the point where you communicate, not through the senses, but like direct to the brain, you now, a recorded section of sensory impressions transmitted to the brains by tape recording. Well, then what? And the brain is going to see that one's completely real, you know.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=2452.74,2485.67"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/121","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 9:\u003c/strong\u003e Good luck.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=2486.7,2486.9"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/122","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e I'd rather tune in on that. There was a fascinating eye spot in the listener last week. About life on other worlds. And in the book of silence section, I'm just reading.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=2490.04,2511.83"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/123","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 9:\u003c/strong\u003e Thank you.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=2513.73,2514.13"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/124","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e There's one story which works out The, well, in the most rudimentary terms, works out the results of the super-intelligent machine.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=2515.69,2525.55"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/125","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 9:\u003c/strong\u003e Ha ha ha!","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=2526.27,2526.47"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/126","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Now, one of the quite clear and foreseeable steps in the conquest of space, and this is deep space, is the creation of a super-intelligent machine. Yes, thank you. That's very nice. And, have a good day, lady. I don't want to overdo it. Would you like to use a trick or... Now, man is within a foreseeable step.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=2527.5,2563.9"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/127","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 9:\u003c/strong\u003e So it does.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=2564.73,2565.27"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/128","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Yes, yes, yes. Next, brava, mango, thank you.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=2565.99,2571.83"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/129","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 6:\u003c/strong\u003e I'm going to put some of that on the proper unit.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=2572.96,2575.6"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/130","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e I've got some mango. Mango is delicious. Right, he comes back now. Mango for two. Two mango. Two mango with cream. That man is in a foreseeable distance of creating a super-intelligent machine. In other words, a machine more intelligent than man himself. Once, once it's achieved. The super-intelligent machine can create a machine that is even better than this. The central theory was that, in fact, now, owing to Einstein's theory of relativity, we believe that nobody can travel faster than light. But he allowed, slightly on this, to show that with the help of a superintensive machine, in fact, you could travel as fast as possible. Why would it? I mean, God knows, don't quiz me on this because I'm not... There's a reason to believe it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=2579.24,2649.55"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/131","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 6:\u003c/strong\u003e Is there a reason to believe this is possible, or is it a super mission to figure it out?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=2648.44,2652.4"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/132","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Oh no, it wasn't just if we create this, then I'm sure it will be so, there were reasonable arguments about this. His basic theory about the existence of life in space is hardly arguable that you know there are something like a hundred thousand galaxies in space as far as I know. And that many of our atmospheric conditions must be not dissimilar to the world here. And it may indeed be possible that we're under observation. From another planet, you know, and this flying saucer thing has never really been fully explained. But once, um... I would love to do a documentary. It's pretty dry, of course, but I think it's a great documentary to make on life on another planet. You think how unbelievably primitive our life in fact is, with the exception of things like washing machines and pianos and so on. Life is short, brutish and whatever the other word was.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=2652.53,2735.96"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/133","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 9:\u003c/strong\u003e Huh? 10-4-15","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=2737.11,2737.91"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/134","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Okay, okay. I'll walk you out.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=2739.06,2740.46"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/135","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 6:\u003c/strong\u003e Okay, let me try it for you.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=2742.99,2744.65"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/136","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e That's our end risk. Um... It's not cream, it's evaporated milk. Now let's take a look. I'm afraid that is not in the evaporated milk and I really must protest in paying 60 bucks for a couple of spoonfuls of evaporated milk. I'm sure you have a supreme sense of fair play.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=2746.3,2791.42"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/137","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 6:\u003c/strong\u003e What are you going on from here? Aren't you... I'm going to stop and actually... I'm in the room. I'm not in the realm.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=2805.23,2812.21"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/138","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 9:\u003c/strong\u003e I think that's all I've got to say.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=2813.79,2814.89"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/139","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 6:\u003c/strong\u003e And perhaps to Montreal, when I go my way. Well, first I'm going to Tunis, Algeria, Rabat. That's good. Financing this. No, no, this is Ford Foundation. I think that was just known as a grant.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=2816.04,2837.6"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/140","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e They guarantee that.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=2847.55,2848.21"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/141","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 11:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, that was the end of the conversation with Phil Dunham on Thursday, June 12th, or June 10th. Thursday, July 10th, in London. I don't know what that was. This is a really charming bit from the book, on the hints on some of the acting actors, by Agnes Platt, played one or two. She said it's something else, and she says, uh, not until he, the actor, understands that the reason why the greatest dramatic actors usually have foreign blood in their veins is because that foreign blood makes the expression of the feelings a matter of everyday life, when we realize, as he must realize, if he is to do artistic work, that he must never consciously assume an emotion, unless he has the power of feeling and of working himself up so that he cannot help expressing what he feels. There is no actor. No pretense can ever take the place of sincerity. I use the word fancy emphasis when speaking of the English films, and I think that English acting is a little thoroughly deserves praise for this quality. Unfortunately, the mere fact that the only way to realize this consciousness is in itself a condemnation. It is the reason why intellectual people as a whole feel a certain contempt for the work of an artist, if they are consciously up at the rise below that work. It is unfortunately apparent, and that is why English acting does not sweep us off our feet. Directly, you try to write, you defeat your own object. And a great artist becomes so small-blown to be an actor, dancer, or singer, but you do not criticize or sit and watch up. That affair is by a real hand. And a similar acting. Thank you for watching, see you next time! National Business and Personal Efficiency Department, the standard art book company, a little bit of diamond. Two diamond going south west, fine. Lesson one. This is put out, doesn't say it on here. I don't know what. This person's by Mary Pickford. She says, generally speaking, the best type of hairdressing for the film is to dress the hair on top of, on top for modern characters and behind the certain walls, such as those of a juvenile school that's just next to a vampire. Of course for a juvenile class, the flying professor is still regarded as the most beautiful and at the same time the best for photographing purposes. Oh yeah, Mary Pickford says that people should observe and practice not to find out at any time and should try to imitate in front of a friend or somebody. In a very realistic way, I'm trying to observe their manners, and that way I can tell whether they might be a probable or not. Once the smiles have been settled, she says, I'll wait on your hair and clothes and things. When you settle this point, find an example of your emotions to be portrayed in the part I'm practicing, as you would practice at the piano if you were preparing for a music examination. For a music examinations, two stars are strong in all paths, all anger, anticipation, fear, joy, surprise, longing, triumph. Practice under the cannon fan and discover which is your weak point. Then keep hearing away at it until it's your strongest. Supposing there's fear, express it in your face on every possible occasion until people are explained, are you frightened? Then go over the scene around the game before the film is taken to make sure the chain of emotion is complete. At previous business you will say, no doubt, but remember whatever your part, so long as you are appearing on the film, your face and your control over it, and as your power to express emotion, is your stock in train, and every good businessman or woman will realize the importance of keeping the stock in order. And once you have mastered these details, you will experience a new joy and fascination in your work, which could then be felt unless there is a real boundless sympathy between the living actor and the mythical part of your plane. Try and think that the part you appear in is a leaf out of your own life, while the film is being taken live out of live that part of their own life. And you will be surprised how easy and how intensely interesting the work becomes, and how additional power is placed at your command by means of the harder concentration on studying of your part. How difficult it sometimes is to catch the correct atmosphere of the part you are playing may not be fully realized by the beginner, but after the first attempt, there is a certain amount of uncertainty that it must be before you can get very far in the practical area of a modern film studio. If you want to make a simple test of atmosphere, look at the program of coming events of a cinema. Pick out two films with a similar theme, one featuring a leading actress near a lesser known star. Visit them both and carefully watch how the two actors develop their part. Both may act well, both may make no action mistakes, if given discern, if the effect of the two characters on the same audience may be absolutely different. The reason is quite simple. One of the characters is meant to have created the proper atmosphere for the part she is playing. The other may be a better actress in the period of radical scenes. At least the final touch in her expressions movements and gestures. The details may be too small to be recognizable, but nevertheless the cumulative effect as the film passes over the eyes of the audience is tremendous. This brings us to the question of the film language. Until a speaking picture is invented by the one who is looking at school, the only speaking language possible is that which finds its power of explanation in the actions of the players themselves. At first sight, this may seem rather unimportant as it does in my handbook when I act for the films, but as it becomes the possibilities of action dialog on the screen, it is still very incompletely understood by the public, and even by the majority of film actors and actresses themselves. This is still my picture in my mind, chapter four, and this is an indication of kind of thinking that I've learned of some of those things. Action dialog. Let me give you an example of what is meant by action dialog. The scene is a line for waiting for the return of her husband. She's reading, but suddenly she stops and listens. Of course, if you think of him coming, he's the playing message read by the audience, just as clearly as that was spoken by a living being instead of a screen figure. He relapses into a book, and after a short while looks at a wristwatch several times in quick succession, each time with a growing air of impatience and expectancy. This time, quote, where has he got to? Is what the audience reads. It's very possible to go on such examples indefinitely, but these two will suffice to indicate the necessity for synchronizing actions and motion, and this one makes your acting be its own explanation of the part you play on the plot. To do this, you'll have to know that where the actor, like the chess player, should never keep about five moves ahead of the camera, and should dwell on the simple rather than the elaborate. Always remember that the camera records every action, however small, just so it occurs. And that being so, the longer you eliminate unnecessary detail, the stronger the vital movements which interpret the spirit of light will appear when they are reproduced on the screen. It's the most predictable station of action dialog, and the only nation with all the necessary detail in real life with pioneer gold digger. These men, usually went in pairs into the wilds to wander up and down with their dreams always struck lucky. Took a minute to work for hours while uttering a sound. Away from civilization, they had discovered that most cities, so-called matters of no more, did not matter at all. They slept, fed, and worked, and ended the same number again. Those of them who became rich drifted back to the cities, and even then, they never returned to the petty, pleasantries. Jelly accepted as part of life. They remained strong silent men, who fell off and then spoke little. A type apart. These men learned the art of action and dialog, and could never bring themselves to speak from the turn of a hand, though the pinching of a fist would express their feelings just as well. Just as I say for a player to have constant control of emotions and clarity over what to put in the game, so it's clearly dangerous to get ahead of the producer. I mean, the types of online meets in the after-hours videos occasionally make me feel impressed with the idea of our own powers. Perhaps you'll need a super-price, you'll know. In a super price, you won't want to try to anticipate the present discussions often with dire results to the film or own career. On page 21, this is lesson four of the same book by Oral Sidney, and he gives an impression of what it was like to work on the plot to what the producer might say to you. What the producer would say to him. Well, also, first he gives advice about maybe your eyes and body motion, therefore, it's not the color of your eyes. And the thing that I'm working on behind the camera is that the front of your eye gets away from it. The big difference here in which you work was, of course, on the theatrical stage as well as inverted. And he says that you have to think when you come out. And now, here's the scene of the exhibition, the producer says. Here are the guests for the wedding breakfast. The married husband is responding to a congratulatory speech. They all register happiness and attention. One suddenly, from behind him, the ladies father enters and denounces the bridegroom as a murderer. Now, here is where I want the big bunch. Numbers one, five, six, and ten spring up their feet. Number one, knocking his glass over. All look first toward the father. Number two, the married pair. Registering consternation and horror. The bride feints and numbers three and one go to the tinder. They rip her wrists and lift her away from the sofa. How do I invite them? Do you want to carry on? All right. 2, 4, 9, and 12 go towards father and son, but Vincencoil and the others gradually disperse, still registering this night. The word registering is a difficult term to learn, and the retention of any facial expressions such as surprise, delight, and disappointment. For obvious reasons, the producer cannot be expected to remember his pre-actified and inspired moments. The names of every member of his cast, all the preliminary to every scene, his assistant, numbers them off. It would be a bad thing for the actor to forget his number.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=2849.48,3192.91"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/142","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 10:\u003c/strong\u003e I've just heard about him from people and I've listened to him speak. He comes across as a very presumptuous old man who thinks that he... I mean, one doesn't say it's about people normally, but with regard to him, certainly, he thinks he knows more about the documentary, come over, anyone else, and he's still qualified to talk about it. But he's really, really old hat now. I mean most people are not old hat, but he is. And if you ever read any of his big manuals on the history of the British cinema... It's so sort of unimaginative and he makes sort of factuous criticisms about things which then tend to become the accepted thing because they are in this, the sort of Whittaker's Almanac of film if you like, and he comes out with these sort of statements, I think such and such a method of filmmaking of such and so a director's work is basically not very interesting and he's sort of been making these presumptuous rather factuous statements. Not based on very much, but he hasn't done very much himself. His last good film was about 1946 or something like this. I'm afraid he's a bit of a write-off.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=3196.09,3260.27"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/143","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 9:\u003c/strong\u003e How you got in there?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=3261.58,3262.34"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/144","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 10:\u003c/strong\u003e No, no, please.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=3263.63,3264.15"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/145","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 6:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah, no, no. Type, type. Do anything you want. This is, uh, no problems.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=3265.79,3270.55"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/146","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 10:\u003c/strong\u003e Can we see the other one you showed? That's alright. Well, he roughly comes in the same category I think.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=3272.58,3277.6"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/147","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 6:\u003c/strong\u003e But a world of difference, he's a very alert old man, very much aware of what's going on, and very much approving of it, and pretty much considering himself as kind of fast, but doing his best to encourage what's going on now. I was surprised. He's very, very aware of the things going on. Anybody else? Let's see, where are they? Who's attacking you right now? I think he mentioned you, or someone else that he thought was just marvelously potty. Because he put a little bit of jewelers. Because, I don't know what it was, but anyway, he felt that was the quality.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=3277.81,3330.45"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/148","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 10:\u003c/strong\u003e There's another man called, you probably won't get to see now, but there's another man who's sort of as well known in his own right as each of those two, a man called Edgar Anstey.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=3332.43,3342.65"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/149","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 4:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah, I've read a lot of articles on these.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=3344.17,3346.03"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/150","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 10:\u003c/strong\u003e There are about six men who all come from the John Grierson School and the two you've just mentioned are two of them and Edgar Anstey is another one and he is the boss of the British Transport film unit, which in its heyday did some very, very good films indeed. But they're all, they are, each of them, in their very late middle age now, and I suspect that their film, their style of filmmaking is past. I saw Basil Wright's film, I've never been, he made a film on Greece called, I forget what it was called, it was a color film documentary, which was basically a very sort of phony, dreary sort of thing about It was just about statues and columns in Greece. It was so boring. God, it was boring and very long. There was nothing in it at all.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=3347.38,3399.22"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/151","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 12:\u003c/strong\u003e I didn't see that. All I've seen is, of course, a Nightingale song, which I admire quite a bit, the song and so on, especially at that time.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=3401.39,3410.83"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/152","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 10:\u003c/strong\u003e Yes, I know, but unfortunately these people live on the sort of reputation made by about one or two films. And these films belong into another era.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=3411.53,3420.51"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/153","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 6:\u003c/strong\u003e Everybody does, to a degree, you know. Everybody has about two films that they made. Oh, yes.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=3421.609,3426.71"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/154","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 10:\u003c/strong\u003e Oh yes, yes, but it doesn't really matter, because these people don't, I don't think these people pretend to be anything now, I mean, they don't make films now, Rofo and these people, they're just sort of sitting back now, in a mellow light. They don't mean anything now. Influencing parliament or something like that, I guess that's it. Perhaps. But there's, you know, the tragedy about this country, as I was saying to you, there's been no takeover from them. There's no sort of movement now. To continue in a new vein what they started, which I think is an awful indictment of all sorts of things in this country.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=3426.38,3462.22"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/155","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 12:\u003c/strong\u003e But, you know, really, does one need to continue what they started as a social thing, attitude?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=3463.1,3471.84"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/156","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 10:\u003c/strong\u003e It depends, really, because what they did was for very much propaganda purposes, and it wasn't, it was a very much superficial thing in a way, it wasn, it didn't really look at anything other than saying, this is basically very good. Not always, because I believe Paul Oga's film, The World of Plenty, I believe it was very savage sort of thing on The World of Non-Plenty, and I haven't seen it, but a lot of them stem from the propaganda machine of the last war. Or showing us all pulling together and this sort of thing coming and going, basically this sort of school. But I, you know, I don't think you can say to me, in fact I know you don't believe yourself, that any country doesn't need a good healthy sort of critical band of people who sort of make documentaries about things that aren't always good about the country. A core of people who if you like are the shouters or the something. We've got nothing like that in this country at all. Perhaps about three people, all sort of working individually. I can't even think who those three are. Two, three, I don't know who they are. We've got no movement at all, you see. As opposed to a vigorous feature film movement or, I mean, most documentaries on television, you look at a couple of British documentaries and most of them are fairly sort of flatulent, I see it's sort of uncompromising, sort of compromising sort of...","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=3471.99,3553.06"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/157","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 12:\u003c/strong\u003e I saw the newcomers just recently, when you were so bored with it, and I have to agree with you, it's very tame. I shouldn't really say that.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=3553.89,3561.81"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/158","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 10:\u003c/strong\u003e I shouldn't really say that, because I only saw about a quarter an hour of one episode, and that was enough for me. I sort of know.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=3560.89,3567.13"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/159","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 12:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, I felt that it actually was a terribly tame thing, and I was rather surprised that it made such a smash, you know, two years ago. Probably the technique, although I found the technique rather timid, too, you now, from a reportage standpoint. I mean, really, most of it was silent shots of the boy, Sue, but now and then the attempt to try to gather up what was happening.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=3567.1,3593.46"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/160","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 6:\u003c/strong\u003e Yes. But nevertheless, it was an attempt to criticize. It wasn't a problem, a housing problem, the one I saw. The difficulty of the apartment, of lodging. So there was some effort and criticism. The other documentaries I've seen haven't been critical at all, really. There was one. I was with a guy named Philip Donald,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=3593.83,3621.42"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/161","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 10:\u003c/strong\u003e Oh, yes, I'm thinking of him, yes.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=3622.4,3624.1"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/162","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 6:\u003c/strong\u003e And he's shooting a film on the Irish and dealing with the problem of exploitation of the Irish warfare when he comes here, you know? And the whole social problem with the Irish and all of his surroundings, he's being completely out of fact with his train, with his upbringing and everything here. So this has a critical bent to us, but a critical in the sense that I'm with a camera that was first used for research before it. And not just to collect evidence to propound a thesis, you know. He's, in a sense, investigating and making up his mind about it as he's going along, seeing what the problems are.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=3624.43,3663.91"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/163","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 10:\u003c/strong\u003e Philip Donnell, there's one of those people on PBC I know very little about, because I've only seen about two of his films. I haven't seen, he's had a recent series out. He operates in the Midlands. He believes in getting away from the moor up here. And he always films in the midlands, but I haven' seen anything. He works out Birmingham. That's right, yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=3664.69,3679.43"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/164","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 6:\u003c/strong\u003e I did something in the black.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=3679.78,3681.06"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/165","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 10:\u003c/strong\u003e Yes, I don't know whether he's any good or not. I would imagine from the sort of subjects he tackles, he couldn't be any worse. He'd probably be better than most people here.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=3682.21,3688.63"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/166","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 6:\u003c/strong\u003e He's a marvelous guy, has a tremendous amount of perception about what he's doing. And, for instance, he was telling me about this film, he got these films on industry he was doing, where he did, that he had done, where his approach was not to show how a man and the machine works, but show, try to find those moments that helped man overcome that life of the machine, you know, and it was the kind of the way he conquered it, you now, the way, he turned, he retained his humanity, human relationships with the other. In between the times that he was working at L.A. And things like that, to show that things didn't go well is right. So it was an interesting approach. But this was interesting. I sat through the whole evening at this Irish man's home. He had arrived. He was going to film this Irish fiddler. And it was souse out of his mind. And it is sobering up, and then start getting him drunk again while the camera was coming as he was playing. It was like a very little four in the morning. So, the things you have done up to present have not been social criticism. The colliding has resonances, but this atom bomb film will be, to a great degree, because it will pose a social problem, will it not? Try to shake things up. This would you consider as to be your first day?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=3689.5,3791.09"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/167","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 10:\u003c/strong\u003e No, I wouldn't, no. No, I would, you know, I mean, it probably depends on which way you look at these things, but I would consider Culloden as relevant, as I consider my next film, which is to be a Western, as relevant. It's all to do with things as they really are, and I certainly think a film which attempts, even if it doesn't necessarily work, attempts to show war, as it probably is, is as relevant now as it was then. A police action is a police action. War is war. Tell me you're talking... Cullodden.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=3792.04,3821.95"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/168","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 6:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, I think that works, but I was saying it wasn't taking a social problem to say it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=3822.57,3826.59"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/169","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 10:\u003c/strong\u003e It is a social, I mean anything, anything war is a problem, it's just, you know, it is a question of getting at people in various ways and so perhaps people can, I don't know. But I don' regard anything, I means costume, uniform, history, it doesn't matter, people are people, people are problems are problems, so I'm doing a western and I'm doing a thing about divorce, which will be a modern thing, and I should go back into history and do the Irish hut rising. Which is the whole Irish problem, as we affected Irish history. How's your shooting been going? Oh, alright. The film is sort of four-fifths ready now.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=3826.49,3867.57"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/170","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 6:\u003c/strong\u003e How's the... Have you had any particularly snaggling problems, you know, indirectly, wasn't it a beautiful label? No, not really. It ain't going well.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=3872.47,3880.53"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/171","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 10:\u003c/strong\u003e The problems will start when the hierarchy see the film. Should be about two weeks time.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=3882.03,3887.01"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/172","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 6:\u003c/strong\u003e How do you compare yourself to that?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=3890.36,3891.68"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/173","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 10:\u003c/strong\u003e Well I'm not, I can't prepare myself, they'll see the film, well I have prepared myself, I've got all sorts of counter-arguments and things, and I think I'm going to get them into a very difficult position. What do you think the main attack will be? I don't know, I think, I've argued this over so many people, but if you basically think about it my film says that my film doesn't say it implies or in furs, or whatever other word you like to use, that the whole situation, certainly in this country, is, in a way, very, very undemocratic. I think that's a rather weak word to use. But in that, if you have a country of 52 million people, probably not more than 10,000 of these.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=3892.16,3943.71"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/174","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 9:\u003c/strong\u003e I have somebody with a kind of a...","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=3946.01,3948.29"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/175","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 10:\u003c/strong\u003e I wish it were me. It's not as funny.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=3948.34,3950.1"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/176","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 9:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, I actually lent it to Tony, so he should have lunch.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=3949.86,3952.84"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/177","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 10:\u003c/strong\u003e Yes. I'll give it to him, if you know what I'm doing. Yes, okay. Thank you very much. Thanks so much. Are 52 million, perhaps not more than 10,000, know anything at all about the present world nuclear situation, world nuclear stockpile, what their own national deterrent is, what radioactivity is, and it'll all catch up with them before they even know. And this is closely undemocratic. And so my film is telling people, if they want to listen, they probably don't want to hear what these things are, not only on a national basis, but about the whole present situation. As it is now as it is not being legalized and formalized and analyzed by such people as Herman Kahn And they didn't even go Should he away I Reckon who knows somebody said Every man before he dies. It's a right to know what he's running from why where to and I believe that very much And people don't not more than a microscopic percentage of people in this country know anything about the present situation at work. And it is not deliberately well hidden with help from people, as much as being a gentleman's agreement not to tell people. And this is why the film will really curl the eyeballs up on the higher people, because they will have to decide, they will have to decided that it is right for people to know these things, because this will affect the war morale of Britain. And that's going to be a hell of a thing to decide. And this the avenue I'm corralling them into. That's going to be a very nice, juicy situation for... You're going to put them back against the wall on the basis that they're a democratic... Yes, they are going to have to tell me. You're crowding them into a... Oh, I'm going to... ...Into a realization that they are almost a fascistic situation once they find themselves. Well, yes, I'm carrying them against, into the situation whereby they will have to admit what the forum says is true, not only who is mathematically certain, but then I can say to any one of those gentlemen, how many books on radioactivity or thermonuclear weapons have you read? And not more than 0.5% of them will have read more than half a book. And a lot of facts in the forum will be fairly new to them. And this in itself will be a very interesting revelation to them, and they can only but admit, unless they actually lie. But it's quite likely that most people are in this position as well, and then they have to decide whether it is a good or a bad thing for people to be in this position. In other words, whether the withholding of knowledge is a good thing. And any argument, the only sort of, the outward argument they will probably put if they reject the film is you mustn't frighten people. And this, I will say, doesn't wash. Let's get deep to it, what's really the reason. And they will say this, or they'll have to say this, or I will say to them, is this it? And then if this is so, as they can only admit it is, then we shall really be going to town. That would be a very interesting situation indeed. But we are living in this gross lying illusion, because of course the whole political structure of things rests on this thing of mood. But I at least feel that people have a right to know what that structure is, before they then decide, well, it's a good thing or a bad thing. A lot of people will probably... Then see my film and say, well I still believe that thermonuclear posture is a very good thing to prevent happening what your film shows happening. At least he says that with some knowledge now. Because anyone puts a cross on a ballot sheet they don't put it with any knowledge at all really, do they? And this would normally not matter in normal, in past sort of historical precedent when wars were recoverable from. But thermonuclear war is recoverable but only in a very, very limited degree. It's going to catch up with us how much in your","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=3953.65,4184.68"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/178","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 6:\u003c/strong\u003e film which deals with the situation of the act of a bomb. How much of your film deals with this situation of government decision? Is this part of the structure of your film at all? I was wondering if somehow your film reflected the kind of position that you were actually explaining to me now about a government's responsibility.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=4184.83,4209.11"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/179","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 10:\u003c/strong\u003e Government's responsibility is probably something I don't...","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=4216.51,4218.55"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/180","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 6:\u003c/strong\u003e And filming of them.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=4218.71,4219.69"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/181","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 10:\u003c/strong\u003e Ah, well this I do. This the film does, and at least, this the film does at least two or three chunks quite, quite specifically. I mean, there is one sequence when I put forward something to the audience which they will immediately identify themselves with because they will know themselves they won't know it. In other words, for instance, the camera spends five minutes going through a crowd of people who are undergoing various, fairly minor, psychological kickbacks from what they've been through. That's to say they're in fairly harmless states of days and apathy, which is a fairly minor thing. And they have come out from a radioactive Z-zone, so the commentary will say, it is likely that few of these people will even know what a radioactive z-zone is. And then I don't explain what it is on the contrary. And I then say. It is likely that few of them will know what beta burns and cell division and pollution are. And I don't explain what they are. And I can, if it works, I can see the minds of anyone who's honest with himself saying, well I don' know what these things are either. What is iodine 131 and cobalt 60? What is carbon 14?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=4219.67,4295.38"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/182","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 6:\u003c/strong\u003e I mean, you don't explain it in the film, but the point of your film is to scare them and make them realize it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=4297.92,4304.86"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/183","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 10:\u003c/strong\u003e No, it's not to scare them. I mean, if I then explained what carbon-14 is, I'd need a film about two and a half hours in length and not two hours in length. That's a technical thing. But it's not necessary. Not if I think if you see the film, and if the film does work, basically what radioactivity does to the human body is explained in quite horrifying detail anyway in the film. But actually specifically what carbon 14 is or anything like this, which are all very important ingredients, I don't explain this. So I'm sort of titillating, if you like. And this is sort of the authority of the film, is the obvious fact that the check on the board of governors or anyone else himself won't know either. And hasn't had it explained to him. And I have, you know, I have one thing I quote from a British manual, Home Office. These are really the villains of the piece. Saying, written in 1959, British public knowledge in the affairs of radioactivity will be made progressive during the next few years. I then go to a totally genuine street interview and I ask a woman, do you know what's dropped in my tears? She says, uh, I think it's a sort of gunpowder, isn't it? Most people said they didn't know, but she said that. It's appalling. Absolutely appalling, and now, you see, I just sort of got the film roughly cut together at the front, and I got my escalatory system, Vietnam, Berlin, Walls, Jersey. And then Herman Kahn, God bless him, publishes this thing in The Times two weeks ago, which I'm now going to put in the front of the film. And three or five of my scenarios are exactly there in Herman Kahan's 38 rungs to spasm, or insensate war, as he calls it. It's quite horrifying actually, really. Understandable, but horrifying. Yeah, you've finished your shuri now. Yes, yes. But the point is, you see, they're going to feel themselves as if this can undermine civil authority. Because although no one would admit it, civil authority in this particular subject seems to partly rest on the staunchen of lack of knowledge. In other words, one could say to oneself, really, the key burning issue is if people really understood the thermonuclear posture. And the results of it and the way the results could affect a pretty small country like this as opposed to For a moment once thinking an insular term Would they stand for it would they accept it that's possible they might but it is also possible they may not Basic thing is nobody has the knowledge to even decide that at the moment That's where the undemocratic situation comes in, but that is what's going to want important government","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=4303.91,4476.36"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/184","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 6:\u003c/strong\u003e In a sense, then you're not attacking the bomb, or the idea of a bomb, or the end of the war, as much as you're attacking the government position. You are.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=4477.91,4486.77"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/185","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 10:\u003c/strong\u003e If anyone looks at this film and likes the idea of the bomb, then they must have sat through it with both eyes shut. But I do not come out in the end and say Britain must unilaterally disarm. I leave that to the person himself. I think the whole thing is a mad situation from beginning to end. And it's not just Britain, it's the whole world. I keep reiterating such things as Khan's policies and the present growing world stockpile, and all that sort of business which nobody knows about. Expense. You know, the one tenth of the American labor corps is on the payroll of the military. It's an incredible sort of thing, isn't it?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=4488.12,4522.94"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/186","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 6:\u003c/strong\u003e That was it. I'm telling you, man. That was cool.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=4523.07,4525.21"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/187","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 10:\u003c/strong\u003e Works for the army? Yes, in one sense or another, defense installations, manufacturing projects.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=4526.36,4534.74"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/188","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 6:\u003c/strong\u003e There was a group of Americans that took 60% out of their taxes because they learned 60% went to warfare costs, so they just refused to pay. It's all up in litigation, maybe. What I'd like to do, and I won't bother you anymore if you're bitter. I was wondering if you could go back and think of these scenes that you directed in that story, since you were crushing your mind. Any particular problems, in particular the scenes where you were trying to get something in particular. And just sort of, try to see in your mind again how you went about it. Just different problems. Working with the people. Camera. I'm not interested only in what you said finally to the actors or what you, you know, the final things, but sort of the general movement toward getting the results. For instance, when Donald arrived on the scene he had to face specific problems. He had a drunken character in the lead. He had to work over that. He had another guy who used to play the pipes. We didn't want to play the pipes until the pipes wanted to play themselves. We had a nice Irish sense there, you know. So there's a difference. There's a different between the pipe, the music the pipes play when you want to play them, and the music that the pipes played when somebody tells them to play. This is the difference. It's nice. I mean, it threw in a whole, you know, that Donald and I just sort of swallowed it and began from way out left field and started coming out, you know, and then different instructions. Whole, a whole indirective fashion of arriving and finding what he wanted and we were there playing the pipes and the violin and ringing the phone in the morning, you know, plus interviewing these people and finding out things about them. You understand, the sort of this kind of operating procedure, the incidental problems cropped up in the sink, sort of like a particular scene that you might have.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=4536.1,4673.34"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/189","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 10:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, I don't know if you'd be interested, because my sort of film is totally different to that, you see. I know, it's actually, I mean, really getting down to basic root. I mean my sort a film, in a way, is a gross cheat, in way, because I mean it's, you can say in a way it's life just as I see it, and really as it isn't. I mean you can perhaps say that.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=4674.35,4696.21"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/190","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 6:\u003c/strong\u003e So this poses even more problems. I mean, you're trying to get what you saw. You've got to... But I've never...","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=4696.76,4701.98"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/191","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 10:\u003c/strong\u003e But I've never even seen it, you see. This is where a lot of people will even attack this film. I mean, I have all just... Well, it's very minimal, but there's a sequence in the film which looks at the problems which will inevitably arise should civilian evacuation be put into motion. About rung about 31 on Herman Kahn's ladder. How do I know? How do i know how people will react? I have various police, you see, you know, I mean, how much of this is just myself saying what I want to say? But I try not to. I have the civil authorities putting into practice certain restrictions in order to put rationing and all sorts of things into process. And because they are going to receive a large number of evacuees, this I know will happen because if the government put evacuation into process. They have to put people somewhere, therefore evacuees have to go somewhere. One knows there are 52 million people in the country. There's little point in beginning evacuation unless you evacuate 50 or 60% of 25 cities we have in this country which are key counter city targets. So all this is mathematical. Logic, but almost logic. These people have to, evacuees have to go somewhere that is considered non-target area, they can't go into the sea, they have to somewhere on the land mass. The number of places in this country which could inhabit, which could and feed and shelter, a proportion of 10 million people, are fairly limited, that aren't themselves under the radioactive lee of, or the blast range of, either airfields, ports, buccaneer air bases or cities. The number is very limited. So it happens that the county where my film is set is one of these non-target areas. So therefore, if you divide the number of evacuees by a small number to work out the number that will go into this county, you then have a large number of mouths coming into a county to feed. So this is a mathematical way of getting to the sort of problems. So then you see the civil authorities have to put certain restrictions into play, such as rationing, otherwise you'll never feed these people. Now if they do this, they have to set up such things possibly as restrictive road movement and all this sort of business. So then what do you imagine a policeman saying? And you imagine a policeman saying... Uh... Yes we've got to have roadblocks and i don't care for father who lives at chatham and is now outside the roadblock wants to come in and see his wife i stop him or do you imagine a policeman saying this is absolutely bloody nonsense you can't stop husbands getting to wives at a time like this my policeman says the second thing because i think it's a more humane thing for a policeman to say and i think any man would say that Probably. And partly it reflects the problem. But I don't know whether a policeman would say that, so I also have a sort of policeman saying something like the opposite, roughly, but generally I try and keep it on.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=4701.52,4895.72"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/192","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 6:\u003c/strong\u003e And then you have the two of them.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=4895.69,4896.77"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/193","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 10:\u003c/strong\u003e In a sense, but I rather try and have the other side of it, which is the problem itself. Let that speak for itself. They do actually set up roadblocks, but the thing doesn't work very well.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=4898.34,4907.2"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/194","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 6:\u003c/strong\u003e Of the people in the encampment, in the...","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=4909.78,4912.44"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/195","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 10:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, all I can do there is imply that it's about 50-50, that about 50% of the people stay, or 60%, and another half immediately light out, so that you look at both sides of it, but in actual fact I could be grossly wrong, 100% would stay or 100% would flee, you just don't know. But given your situation now then, and dealing in an absolutely projected thing... See, this is unlike Culloden. I had record of what people said and things and things.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=4913.72,4942.74"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/196","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 6:\u003c/strong\u003e But now you have to make your own record. Yes, I have to my own record But since you want it to be as absolutely convincing as Aladdin was, as a newsreel is, as, as uh, a report... You have to...","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=4943.74,4956.08"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/197","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 10:\u003c/strong\u003e You have to then feel to yourself that given these set of circumstances, which mathematically have been added up to, that you think it's quite reasonable that someone would say that thing. You as an individual watching. Otherwise the thing doesn't work. It's got a ring true, and I think most of the things ring true. Basically because they stem from this mathematical pyramid, which is the only... This mathematical pyramid is the one... Is the ONLY, if you like, the foundation of the film, just as Culloden. History was the foundation. There's no history as a foundation for this one, so I have to add up known facts and figures and present a sort of plateau of history on which I work. It's all I can do.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=4955.47,4993.81"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/198","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 6:\u003c/strong\u003e In working with your people, you're using non-actors as an example. Yes, taken from the place.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=4995.09,5000.01"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/199","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 10:\u003c/strong\u003e Yes. Yes.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=5000.68,5001.28"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/200","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 6:\u003c/strong\u003e In trying to project them into something that they had not yet experienced. In Culloden you had the benefit of the fact that the people, it was almost a legend.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=5002.62,5010.4"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/201","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 10:\u003c/strong\u003e Yes, I don't think this makes a lot of difference though, because really, when you get down to actually putting a human being in front of this awful camera lens, any legend or anything, it all goes out of his mind straight away. He is just worried about the whole thing, so you really have to start from scratch either way. And I mean, you know, basically, you can only work on the assumption of trying to... It doesn't matter whether the person is a Scotsman or a Policeman, it doesn't really matter what he is. That basically he comes across as a real person and not as someone acting those lines, and the key thing in this, I find, is trying to get nothing out of that person that is not right for him as a character, and if a person's only got to open his mouth and say two lines, it really is she-she nonsense to go into all the background of his personality and individuality to talk to him about this. I just don't. I mean, I haven't got This is nonsense. He is in a way not only a person he's representative of people in this circumstance and having so recognizing that you just have to try and show that what he says is is underplayed and as believable as possible and this is not easy when people are being angry into the camera how the hell do they expect me to do this or that This is, you have a scene where you, uh, somebody gets angry. I have seen, I have scenes, I mean there was one scene I did on Monday where it was a very difficult thing indeed, I had a crowd of about 20 children, aged from 6 up to about 15 boys and girls, with mothers and a couple of fathers, and about 80% of these have been very, very, I haven't seen the rushes so I'm not sure yet, but they looked as though they'd been very well made up. In a very horrifying way because they are... Yes, horror, yes and these people this is the one time in the entire two-hour film where the camera says you are now looking at the debris of thermonuclear war these are the injuries these people have been gassed, these people has suffered from heat stroke these have been empolled by flying debris, these have people have been burnt these people had their clothes set on fire by thermal radiation etc etc from laying it down the line like that, and I have 20 people who are, I mean it's rather like trying to sort of toss a clump of humanity into a corner and letting them writhe almost, it was awful, and they had to scream and cry and do things which normally is just about the most dangerous and difficult thing to get an untrained person to do, but I don't know, we spent about, I spent about a quarter of an hour getting it of them.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=5011.77,5176.77"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/202","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 6:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, how did you arrive on the scene? Did they know what they were doing?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=5177.42,5179.74"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/203","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 10:\u003c/strong\u003e No, no, no!","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=5179.84,5180.3"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/204","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 6:\u003c/strong\u003e They were made up, but they didn't know.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=5180.9,5182.26"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/205","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 10:\u003c/strong\u003e They didn't know what they were supposed to do, they trundled down into this little sort of wrecked corner of a barracks where we were filming, I laid them all out in this sort of position.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=5182.26,5190.08"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/206","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 6:\u003c/strong\u003e Without explaining the scene.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=5190.93,5192.07"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/207","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 10:\u003c/strong\u003e Without explaining the scene yet, plonked them down, then I said, you are now in a forward medical aid unit, you have been so and so, so and, so, explain this position that they were in, I then went to each single person individually, the camera goes, it's a wide angled camera shot which is hand held and goes past people and sometimes someone goes past and bangs into the camera so it obscures it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=5192.86,5212.96"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/208","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 6:\u003c/strong\u003e And you planned out the camera movement?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=5214.56,5215.78"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/209","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 10:\u003c/strong\u003e Yes, yes, right. Yes, or laid the people out and planned the camera movement to them. But the thing, if the thing works, it will look totally unorganized. And then I went to each person and tried to tell them what they were supposed to be suffering from and tried get from each of them a different sort of shock or paralysis or crying or fear or pain reaction. Which is extremely difficult to do and I don't know if this has worked or not. But to look at someone and really believe that he is in pain is uh... This is the most difficult thing of all to do and uh... But you see in that sort of scene there's nothing like the collective force because we're running on sound and i said the sound is as important i'm only going to be passing your face prepare about five seconds but i want you to be giving forth, except for one woman, who she could not give forth for more than 10 seconds, well actually giving herself a rupture of what she was doing. But most of them I said, I want you to give forth, for all the minute that this shot is going to last, whether you're in shot or not. And then, so they all got this noise coming up, the noise was an awful sort of animal-like noise, and I was watching them, and they were, it was absolutely incredible. Something clicked, the scene clicked, they knew what they were supposed to be doing, and then they really went to town, and uh... All sorts of people, a little sort of kid was sort of looking bolt-eyed into the camera, and I... But you worked it out individually with everyone? Yes. Yes, yes, yes. And, uh... You cheat to start with. I mean, with a kid, it's not easy at all to try and get them. And a sort of basic form, which tends to sound more like a factory method, but... Uh, it, uh, if in fact you get someone breathing very quickly... This, in fact, starts to get something going inside them, which an untrained person is not easy to project just cold like this. If you get a fast... It opens the mouth and something happens to the eyes and then if you try and build something on top of this, the results can sometimes be not bad at all. For pain or...? For pain, or... Yeah, I mean, this sounds like saying there's sort of physical act number five for such and such, and I mean people would normally say this is not the way to do it at all, but I may say that one is working with untrained people here, and anyway, I would do that even if I were working with a professional, because it is a... That is a psychosomatic thing anyway, breathing fast, it does produce certain things. But I got some kids doing just that and bolt-eyed into the camera, some kids I got to pretend they were crying, and when, in fact, the noise of everyone was awful, they lost inhibition and went to town on it a bit. And so consequently, I'm making noises that people don't normally make, these sort of noises like this, and so consequently when you've got a vicious melange of this sort of thing, and that possibly, although I go on about how difficult it is, it possibly it is. In a sense, more difficult, more easy, easier than a settle scene perhaps, when you've got one person isolated in front of the camera. And the whole thing depends on the right sort of flick of the eyes or the things just either work or they don't work and the depressing thing about this sort of filming is you can never tell whether it's worked until you see it on the screen","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=5216.5,5422.16"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/210","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 6:\u003c/strong\u003e You just made a statement, because of course the screen is the thing that, or the camera relationship to all of this is the thing that's going to make it look real or staged in a way. I mean you could, the scene you're telling me, it could have been taken by a boom or a crane, you know, and you could have moved up like this and it would have looked like fiction drama. Yes, yes. I was interested because you've said the word unorganized as a part of technique, I mean, a feeling of a black hole. It is","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=5422.84,5448.68"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/211","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 10:\u003c/strong\u003e organized an organization.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=5449.71,5451.19"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/212","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 6:\u003c/strong\u003e How would you explain that in terms of what the frame looks like?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=5452.83,5455.33"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/213","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 10:\u003c/strong\u003e You avoid, do you avoid well-fronted shots? Yes, yes, completely.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=5456.91,5460.73"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/214","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 6:\u003c/strong\u003e I mean, that's it for a point of view.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=5462.26,5464.36"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/215","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 10:\u003c/strong\u003e Uh, no, I don't, not, not yes, in that sense, but in, in the sense that, um, I, I believe things for my sort of film must be as... Flat on, and this doesn't denigrate dramatic effect at all in that sense, but I mean, if I film someone talking to camera, I would usually prefer to film them talking nicely and a fairly tight close-up. My spot of close-up is about this to this. From just below your tie to your hairline. No, just above the hairlines, above the head. Just about there. And never, never that sort of thing. Never, ever, ever. Why not? Well, I don't like it. I just think that you're starting to get into the field of drama here. I like to keep people back a bit so that you can look at them. My people always look straight into your eyes because they're looking into the lens. They're not looking off. And I think that... In a raw situation to go flat on to someone saying to the camera, I think so, so, and so. This is where someone, this is where you are using a real person in the sense that, for this sort of film, in no sort of sense where a created dialog scene where a policeman says something to a pedestrian, the pedestrian then answers. I mean this phony sort of thing that you get. This is direct. Television has to work. This sort of a film has be incisive, has to make points and move ruthlessly. This particular sort of film, in fact I believe any sort of film has to, I believe you've got to... The real sort of films, you start to sit down, you sit like that. Like that. And you still hardly settle down, because it's got you. And I'm not saying Culloden does this all down, I think he does it a couple of times and the rest doesn't. I think the thermonuclear thing is going to do it far more. Partly because people are hardly going to be able to credit what they hear from a lot of it. Erm... But, erm... Sort of low angles. Or angles looking past, you know, the sort of traditional sort of western angle, looking past, looking up past the gun holes, none of this for this sort of film just doesn't","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=5464.27,5582.48"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/216","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 6:\u003c/strong\u003e What about being on the shoulder of someone else?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=5583.48,5585.34"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/217","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 10:\u003c/strong\u003e No, very seldom. Seldom if ever, unless it's right. You've got to say to yourself, you are in a newsreel situation, what is the sort of thing you would probably see or have taken if you were there? And this is a fairly good criterion, in a way. Then you cheat sometimes on that, because you can say, bottom buck, A, there were no newsreels cameras in 1746. B, he would never have been in front of charging men. If you film it in such a way that it looks real. Then that question usually doesn't arise in 85% of the people's minds anyway and certainly won't arise in this film because the nuclear film is a far better film, I think it's more realistic all the way through.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=5585.71,5623.11"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/218","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 6:\u003c/strong\u003e What do you do when you say it looks real, and it means this feeling that the thing is existing on both sides of the camera, and the camera is getting a bit out of it?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=5623.56,5631.42"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/219","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 10:\u003c/strong\u003e Yes, the thing is existing. I mean, I had a shot going through a whole stack of wounded people, another one, which didn't basically work, because the action itself was bad. But to hear someone saying by the camera, if the camera's going through, excuse me please, excuse us, this sort of thing, this does things, I assure you. Or if someone looks, if a camera comes up, someone looks into the camera and the camera sort of bumps and goes away from, just as you see. Or i mean i had one thing camera goes out so it's also goes to get thing you know hands work wasn't what yes and the this is this is the technical nuts and bolts of it you asked me what the nuts and bolts it is this sort of thing you gotta make sure it's not overdone you will make sure to write for the scene and you've got a used different ways of doing it because hands and things they you see it twice in it it looks wrong once a film is just about all right But there are all sorts of other things. What about now? We talked about you staging a live scene. But handheld is half the answer to the whole thing. Handheld. Never, never, never do a... Never, ever, never in this sort of film do a track. That is a smooth track. I have about six... I have one track in the film which takes six minutes. I have on shot in the movie which sounds the most phony sort of track. Because it looks... But in actual fact, curiously, it looks real. I have a shot in sync. Which goes on for about five, four, five minutes. The camera is on the back of a motorbike, looking over the pillion of police dispatch riders' shoulder and his helmet's in foreground. And the thing is in sync, and he drives about 200 yards fairly fast down the road, stops, gets off the motorbike. Goes up to two policemen. They say, take it straight up there. He's got a message. Camera follows him off, up the flight of steps, through swing doors, into the vegetable of a big county hall. Up a flight of steps, round a corner, up another flight of steps, down a corridor, into a room, all in sync, listens to two people talk to each other for a moment, follows a man across a floor, circles round a table where four men are sitting, down behind the table, and someone starts to talk in dialog, and all that happens in one shot. And normally, you see the thing could, it probably does look very funny. No, I don't think it does look funny. I think it works. Because it's hand-held, because people look into the camera as you go past, people react normally, because the dialog isn't always crystal clear, because all sorts of things happen that are just right. You might get a light flaring into the cameras. I mean, this is real.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=5629.85,5784.89"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/220","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 6:\u003c/strong\u003e Mm-hmm how do you have you're having a personal relationship now this is the thing that you said might look funny if you had a policeman talking to a civilian on this thing but you do have here I got two questions and things like this","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=5785.42,5796.56"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/221","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 10:\u003c/strong\u003e I do. Yes, I do, and I mean you can have, I have... In Calotten you had a lot less of that, you had just the things like the... Yes, it depends on the scene really, you see, this is what I want to try and edge into now, is is the camera that can observe dialog, I mean the camera that can go into a cafe and look at a boy and girl when they're evening out, I mean, just to take a cliche situation, and listen to them talking to each other and believe that they really are talking to Java. That they perhaps acknowledge the presence of the camera but they've accepted it as a sort of friend and have then rather tended to forget about it, as I want the audience to do. But the whole thing is cooked in the sense that it is recreated, but the technique then... So that it isn't... Well, I mean, all I'm after is that you believe it, is that if you look at a boy who's about to jilt a girl or vice versa, it doesn't matter what the situation is, that you are more interested, perhaps, because you think it's happening... This is an indefinable something which either happens or doesn't happen. It's whether the technique works or not. But if it works, the people, the audience could possibly care a lot more than if they knew it was on a film set or in a studio with an actor and an actress, studio lights and all this other business. This hasn't been done a lot before. Some of the Italians have done it and done it spendedly. But I'm sorry to say they don't do it very much now.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=5796.64,5875.23"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/222","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 6:\u003c/strong\u003e He still does try to, you know.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=5875.18,5876.56"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/223","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 10:\u003c/strong\u003e Oh yes, I know. I-","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=5876.63,5877.73"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/224","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 6:\u003c/strong\u003e So we're actually in the middle of a problem of how do you make effect without giving the impression that these effects are being made intentionally?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=5881.41,5892.03"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/225","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 10:\u003c/strong\u003e You know, you know, I know what, what, I don't, yes, that, that's it exactly.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=5892.07,5896.53"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/226","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 6:\u003c/strong\u003e So you're constantly having to play a game with yourself.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=5897.46,5899.24"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/227","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 10:\u003c/strong\u003e Oh, yes, it's a complete game, but all I can say is that if you just try and give everything as far as whatever talent you've got will let you, in giving this appearance of reality, and I try and go all the way down the line to meet that. I mean, I'm more than prepared to be, in fact I damn well know that this is just a technique which a lot of directors don't usually work in. I'm prepared to believe there are probably... Five dozen directors who've got more intelligence than I have, who if they had adopted this, who've more sort of experience of life and the way people really behave, they could possibly do this far better than I had. It just happens that I'm working it when most people aren't. So a lot. A lot of it is intuition, because of course I'm not particularly well-traveled, and I don't know a lot about life, so how... But I would venture to say very few mortal men would ever have sufficient range of experience to know all these things, so it has to be an intuition thing. But having real people and not actors is a tremendous thing, and you can only say... I can only... I can say by looking at that shot, is it working or isn't it? If it works for me. I like to think it'll work for the audience, and I chuck a lot of my stuff away that doesn't work because it doesn't look right.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=5900.09,5982.62"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/228","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 6:\u003c/strong\u003e What kind of effect does this have upon the kind of dialog you have to create, the lines you have in the setting? Well, I don't have...","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=5983.77,5989.61"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/229","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 10:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, I don't have dialog in that sense. I'm going to, but dialog usually means two people talking.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=5988.92,5995.06"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/230","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 6:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, when you were mentioning the example, the hypothetical example of the kid and the girl... Yes, yes, yes. What do you suppose this kind of technique would require? We have to reconceive the whole structural aspect of the scene? Yes, I don't know.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=5995.26,6009.48"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/231","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 10:\u003c/strong\u003e If I did something like that, well, I'll take another example. I'm going to do it at Christmas time. A film about the tragedy of separated or divorced parents of children, where, and this happens a lot of times, where there are, usually the mother has a custody of the child, and the child meets the father about once or twice a year in very sort of, somewhere out of the way, and talks to him for a hard afternoon. You've basically got this sort of double tragedy of the child growing away from the father. And the father growing away from the child, simply because physically they don't know each other anymore, it's as simple as this. And this happens to a great number of people, particularly usually fathers. And erm, I would imagine, I haven't gone into the incident rate yet, but I would imagine the divorce rate and all this separation rate is quite high in this country, probably in most countries, and people, this is sort of an interesting sort of human, tragedy is a corny word, but tragedy that a lot of people really don't really know about. And if... Anything anyone can do by making a film about it that might sort of put a bit more understanding or something in, I don't know, is of help as opposed to making a Laurel and Hardy film that's the sort of thing I want to do and in this case, how do I know what these people say to each other? I wouldn't I would want a film an afternoon of a boy and his father during one of these rather sort of awful biannual meetings. Seaside resort doesn't really matter where but when they're talking to each other in a cafe sort of thing Father asked the boy. How are you doing at school? Doesn't know him anymore and So this I will base on Actual accounts given to me by fathers of what they talk about I mean this will have to be based on On for real and then I will I will have a lot of case histories and I will evolve the dialog from this Because I cannot humanly And even if I could, I wouldn't sit down and concoct, invent this, because it wouldn't be real, and it would show. But then, having got that dialog, in other words, I know that one father I met said, well, we usually talk about something very trivial, and he says to me, I say to him, so and such and such, and, he says, to me this, and I think to myself, oh, well, I really don't. I say, to him you know, how are you getting on in the fifth form? And he says me, well I'm not, I'm in the sixth form now, and then I realize I didn't know that. Well, this sort of thing, you know. Um, which sounds trivial, but, um... So if you know that people said these things, then I would try and write down dialog. And I must say, I haven't done this before, but this is what I want to try and do at Christmas. So that A does talk to party B, and B does reply to A, and then A asks B something else. But that it would be filmed in a fairly innocuous way, probably with a telephoto lens. Uh... Probably this is simple cross-cutting between the two people uh... Pauses and looks into the camera and then forgetting about the camera, but in other words a sort of a middle way between the way people really talk to each other, which is chronically boring in actual fact if you put it on a cell phone.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=6011.45,6207.58"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/232","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 6:\u003c/strong\u003e I don't see why you wouldn't shoot it off the hook.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=6207.18,6209.64"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/233","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 10:\u003c/strong\u003e Oh, no no no, no, because, and partly, there's a double reason. A, it's the presentation. You've got to keep your audience with you. And if you actually film a real conversation, there are two things. Your audience won't take it after a while, because it's very boring. People's gaps and pauses and irrelevances are, um... After a while they spin the thing out like nobody's business. I mean, you listen to two people talking to each other on tape recording. It's, you know, it is chronic sometimes. If you listen two people talk to each, as usual, as dramatists usually write it. This is as unreal in a way. So what I would want to do is I would want to take just a smattering of those irrelevances and a spattering of the pauses and inject them into dialog which has actually been, which I know is real because it comes from life, that's to say. And then try and, with all this, film it as well in this way, that is to say, in a very simple way, so that you feel it's double camera coverage probably on a long, snipe lens. And Um, so the presentation is real, and then also, and this is where I wouldn't, wouldn't want to do it, uh, from real life, because one could then, one could then synthesize all the way down so that if you have only a half hour film at the end of that half hour, you feel, I've got to know this, this thing, I didn't know about this whole thing before, so that you take the license, if you like, on, in basing this dialog, because you take, say, twelve case histories, and if you I just ran your camera over. You have a film eight hours in length. You don't. You pick out what you consider, and this is where, I don't know, intuition or whatever comes in on the part of the guy who's making the film. He takes those salient points in the dialogs that are life history as being relevant to what he's trying to say, and he films those only. So the audience really are listening to relevances and key points. Which is what the dramatist tries to do. Which is what the drumsist tries to do, yes.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=6209.78,6323.73"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/234","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 6:\u003c/strong\u003e You're going to be obliged to find another structure, rather than his initiation. No, no, no. The dramatist has rising dialog and always finishes each scene off with some sort of a twist which moves on.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=6323.29,6335.49"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/235","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 10:\u003c/strong\u003e Oh yes, this is not necessarily, I don't think, at all. I mean, any sort of film like this doesn't have to be an hour's worth of two people talking to each other. You know, there are all sorts of basic cinematic techniques which, if done well, can possibly work. I mean the camera can then step back and watch these two either at a fair or something. It doesn't really matter where the father takes the boy out in the afternoon. And then in fact the father can, then in fact you can have a statement based on what a father has said, you know it's funny you really feel that you're not getting, this sort of thing, as a sort of commentary over disassociated scenes, I mean this is another way you go but this is a more corny usual way, or the father can suddenly talk straight into camera, perhaps at the time when he's seen the boy off in the evening on the train back to Paddington, so then","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=6335.48,6389.3"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/236","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 6:\u003c/strong\u003e Are you seeking, then, a father and a son that had this, some sort of, this election?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=6390.78,6394.82"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/237","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 10:\u003c/strong\u003e This is not essential, but as it so happens, with this particular thing I know a man who has been a, who is in precisely this position, and he's also got a very interesting personality, he's quite a good amateur actor, and I might plumb for him, but that's just an individual case. I don't think that's necessarily necessary, no. I mean, I don' think that is any more necessary than the fact that men who play a police inspector in my film are not police inspectors. I don't think that is necessary.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=6395.01,6423.73"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/238","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 6:\u003c/strong\u003e How are you going to get them, because in this situation, you're going to have, like you said, you were looking for ways of doing this. But don't let's forget, they are acting.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=6425.88,6432.5"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/239","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 10:\u003c/strong\u003e Don't let's forget this. In the end, they are acting.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=6433.44,6435.84"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/240","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 6:\u003c/strong\u003e If you're looking for something else, then what we've grown to know is that...","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=6437.35,6441.05"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/241","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 10:\u003c/strong\u003e Yes I am, but it stems from the fact that I sit down there with the camera, two people sit there and I say to them, right, I'm gonna film you saying this and if you don't do it as I feel is right at first, then we'll do a retake, another retake and the guy is damn well acting. Right. So what I'm asking is what can you do at the retake? So he doesn't have to be a genuine, I mean as long as he understands the emotions required and I feel he's got the right sort of character, then he doesn' have to be genuine divorced father at all.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=6441.17,6467.47"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/242","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 6:\u003c/strong\u003e I agree with you. I'm wondering, though, how you're going, you're planning now to go about this because what you're boarding here is something terribly more sophisticated in the sense that you're demanding things terribly more nuanced, a performance that is more, has a greater richness to it. Many values are entering here, many emotional values that you didn't deal with in Pilate for instance, and probably aren't dealing with in this film. In the sense that the actor or the person is going to be obliged to articulate things. So have you any clue from your experience with Kaladan and your experience with the Adam Bantha that will give you an insight into how you're going to get these articulations?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=6467.41,6515.71"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/243","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 10:\u003c/strong\u003e I mean, you know, it's like asking me how long is a piece of string? I just don't know, I, erm... Erm...","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=6517.12,6522.74"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/244","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 6:\u003c/strong\u003e Experiences, for instance, let's say a policeman in a caravan thing, you had to get him, you said you wanted him to say something human. Let the person in. This reflects a kind of a subtext state, you know, a state, an attitude on the part of the man, and a decision. So we already have a complex.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=6525.18,6544.8"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/245","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 10:\u003c/strong\u003e I mean, you know, I'm sure, really, that if one knows exactly what it is the dialog is trying to say, one knows basically what sort of man you are planning the father to be, and that will basically be, probably, that man, whoever is playing the part. Uh, in the, uh, you say yourself that man in that part. Let us assume he is actually in this situation. And I think the basic ingredient from his point of view is that he has to have this sort of basic working intelligence. It's really intelligence is what's needed. Intelligence and perception. And certainly this would be much more difficult for this than anything I've done before, because nothing would have encroached near this. And if in this particular case I've got a father who is divorced, this might be a help. But then you think that a lot of divorced fathers wouldn't even necessarily have that sufficient perception to then draw out from themselves what it is they normally feel. In such a way that this can come across and go click click click on celluloid which is really what we're talking about so it might be that someone else who has more perception than divorced father will say yes I understand this I understand why dad says this and why the boy replies that and we talk about the sort of emotion and background of things to why they're saying it and what then basically what you're trying to get the audience to see and to understand then film it and you can only hope it'll work But I mean, the fact that I haven't done... Specifically that before, isn't putting me off doing this. Quite the contrary, I'm looking forward to the challenge of it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=6544.85,6637.09"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/246","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 6:\u003c/strong\u003e The point well this is your you're right in the whole center of my interest right there getting something other than other than a conventionally active performance yes how would people who will remain on the screen give the feeling that they are people who exist breathe you know this is behavior real behavior we're watching that's what you're after something that you're going to say, what a smacking good performance.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=6637.49,6667.18"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/247","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 10:\u003c/strong\u003e I've got a whole string of people, somewhere very deep in the nuclear film, who talk about... They each have only about one and a half synthesis to say, and then one bang bang bang, one after the other. And each of them sort of talk about little different domestic trivia, really, in a way, of what it's like not to have heat in the house, or have very much food, or to have unclean washing water. And, um, none of the people have ever been in this circumstance before, whereas she did, they were normal men and women. But somehow, I mean, they understood what I wanted from them, and it's, you see, partly, now this is the thing one shouldn't really say too loudly, but it's partly an audience delusionment as well. Because if you have someone who very quietly and simply says, I didn't, doesn't matter what, will you- We'd been eating everything out of tins in the last three days and it was all being cold. And if you think to yourself, oh my god, that could happen to me because, you know, this is a normal sort of thing, and she says it quietly, and she looks dead tired, and it's totally unacted in the accepted sense, then the audience will help that by reading a tremendous lot into it. But basically, but basically, you have taken an ordinary person, I mean, getting right down to the mechanics of it, you've taken an orderly person. You've got to repeat something two or three times so she says it was quietly and simply enough and as tiredly and isn't fatigue enough and there you've got it. That is, it is a cheat in a way.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=6667.71,6763.75"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/248","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 6:\u003c/strong\u003e How did you approach her to this, to get her to look tired, for instance?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=6763.88,6767.38"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/249","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 10:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, you can, I can only, you know, yes, I usually do these things for people. I say, I want you to say it like this, and then I say it, like this. And I say I want to say like this and I want you to be tired and play it down. And you have to keep holding people down. And some people, I mean, some quite ordinary housewives, for instance, they, they surprised me like hell. They came up with a marvelous thing. First time, some people I had to go to about take seven or something like that to hold them down. Uhhh... But it's the basic simplicity, it's dialog which I've probably given them thrust into their palm about ten minutes before we shot it, I said, now go and learn that. I mean, the way of shooting this film is terribly disorganized. It has to be, in a way. But they knew, I mean you know, this is not intellectually staggering. I mean if you know you are a housewife after a nuclear strike, there's bound to be a lack of water in the house, what sort of problems are there? Here are two sentences typifying one of that sort of one of the sort of problems.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=6768.76,6827.84"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/250","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 9:\u003c/strong\u003e And so you said...","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=6828.85,6829.47"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/251","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 10:\u003c/strong\u003e So that is the sort of thing they know about. They know exactly what the sentence is. I mean, I don't say, your name is Mrs Baker, you have got five children, because this is irrelevant. She is, in a way, standing for a lot of housewives who will be in this position. And then I, because the point has to come up, make itself in four seconds back and go down again, she's gone. But she's an integral part of, if you like, people in this sort of circumstance.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=6829.81,6856.07"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/252","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 6:\u003c/strong\u003e Approach, you're on the...","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=6858.52,6858.78"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/253","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 10:\u003c/strong\u003e About a matter-of-fact manner of explaining? Yes, yes, yes. Explain exactly what she's got to do because she is not a mother of a divorced... The whole thing is... She is relevant only for those four seconds that she is on celluloid. And if those four... If those four second basically are showing a middle-class woman talking about lack of washing up water, because after all in four seconds it's probably all the human mind can absorb, then that's all that needs to come out. Because that's what matters.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=6858.87,6886.45"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/254","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 6:\u003c/strong\u003e Did you have anyone who was a larger who has seen more difficult?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=6889.16,6893.02"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/255","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 10:\u003c/strong\u003e If you have something that's more difficult or if you have something whereby I mean I have a man who plays a police inspector who has to explain in about a long minute take straight into the lens in a very sort of quiet and shagged out way as though it is literally two months after thermonuclear strike the process of moral breakdown he's explaining to us about how this happened, is that good? As the interviewer has said to him, well now what about this police inspector, what about people, the way they're behaving, and he looks straight in the camera, he says, well, before the strike people behaved in such and such a way, but now things are getting worse because, because, and then tries to explain, and it helps, not always, but it helps to have a fairly intelligent, perhaps amateur actor, and amateur actors come into two categories. There are those who are useless for you because usually they over project like mad and there are those who've got tremendous intelligence who immediately grasp this totally different technique they've never used before because usually they stand on a board raised five feet above people and they shout like hell to the back of a hall you know, a hundred feet away but now you're talking to a microphone which is even closer than this one is and you're talking to a camera lens here and this requires you to put yourself forward in a way you've never done before so you have to if you can get someone who can do this and who's had a little bit of You know, basic... Acting experience and this acting experience really helps in all sorts of technical things just as emphasis of things and The intelligent grasp of where pause is coming and why pause is come in which is","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=6896.889,6991.53"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/256","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 6:\u003c/strong\u003e to allow him to elaborate his own text along a kind of understanding.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=6992.78,6996.16"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/257","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 10:\u003c/strong\u003e Oh, yes, I mean, some people do, some don't, I mean, no, usually, usually I write it right the way down to even putting the dots of the pause in, and I write the errs in. And then usually I find people forget these because they know they could remember the err and it's precisely the right place. But they sort of, this, the way it's written, I, er, think, write the ur in dot dot. Well, you see, because people never always talk in life. So, but this is the mechanics of it. If you write it like that, and you further explain to someone this is how you want him to say it, because, people talk in like this, people never deliver lines cleanly from beginning to end with a full stop on a comma, then they usually don't have to copy you exactly, and they might change the words themselves slightly, but they're writing the feel, rather than you saying to them, here are clean words put the ears in where you feel. I could do it that way, and I probably do it sometimes, but I usually tend to say the thing over and over to myself, so that I feel the reality is coming out, and then I feel where the ohms and errs might go in, and people change them if they feel it's wrong, but we go to it right from the word go, with a much longer thing like this.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=6996.1,7068.92"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/258","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 6:\u003c/strong\u003e This guy who plays the police inspector into the into his speech well I the problem of playing in this situation here you got a man who'd never been for a camera before he was used to playing to the balcony yes although he was an amateur so he wasn't he wasn'","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=7069.8,7083.98"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/259","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 10:\u003c/strong\u003e It's just, it's sympathy and intelligence, that's all it is.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=7086.06,7088.32"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/260","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 6:\u003c/strong\u003e Can you, well, have to sort of step away. Did you tell him, did you just give him the script first, or did you say sit down and... Yes, I let him, yes, I...","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=7088.8,7095.24"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/261","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 10:\u003c/strong\u003e Yes, I let him see the script, I told him the sort of man he was supposed to be, I told him all the sort things you can imagine I told him, both to do with I don't go into character a lot because I don' believe in this sort of thing for this sort of film, I mean I believe a man is a man and he'll come out as he is. And if I say to him, you've got 15 children, I mean, this is irrelevant, because he's forgotten that, and this is not gonna... I mean the audience is not going to look at him and say, I've got fifteen children, isn't he? I can see it in his eyes that people don't get this sort of thing. As long as he knows the circumstances... Basically, the sort of man he is, is the sort man he's. I seldom, if ever, attempt character playing. Culloden had a bit, and a lot of it didn't work. But the nuclear film is different. It's got no character playing in whatsoever. People are themselves. And as long as he knows the sole circumstance, precisely the sole circumstance he is supposed to be in and probably the way that he would react. Then... Then really, you're really most of the way there.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=7093.91,7155.07"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/262","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 6:\u003c/strong\u003e What happens when a guy says that?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=7155.4,7156.6"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/263","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 10:\u003c/strong\u003e Can I help you, sorry.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=7157.07,7157.71"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/264","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 6:\u003c/strong\u003e What do you say when an actor says you're a non-actor? Who am I supposed to be? And how can I play myself? I don't know who I am. They want, so many people want to know who the hell they are so they can play it. Otherwise they get lost. Of course this is mainly an actor problem.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=7159.96,7175.64"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/265","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 10:\u003c/strong\u003e This is, it's probably because I've produced, thank you very much indeed. I suppose in... three films, at least three of the last films I've done, I probably had an aggregate of 700 people passing before the camera. Not one person has ever said that to me. I'd probably be foxed if he said that to me. Absolutely foxed. Absolutely Foxed. But you know, I think the audience is the thing in the end. I mean, if in fact people felt that Aladdin were phony in part, or if they feel this next one, they'll say so and they'll to realize that... It's sort of, you know, the audience here have to accept your own basic sort of intuition and intelligence and honesty and you've got to do it, you've gotta be basically honest about things yourself and not try and make people react in a way either that you believe they wouldn't react because you calculated by a certain formula that's how they would react or because based on actual case history you know that's the way they would react. If you bastardize that then you're fouling the whole system up from the word go because you're taking the whole, the audience are taking you on trust in this sort of film. But I think even so, if you did foul them up, they'd spot it. And you'd have fouled your own system up. I think people can tell when you're being phony about something. And they're the final judge. And I can only say that if someone says, oh, that moved me because I know people behave like this, or I felt that's right, then you've worked. And that's all you need. Yes? Oh, dear.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=7176.41,7273.73"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/266","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 6:\u003c/strong\u003e All 18 pounds of... 18 pounds...","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=7276.49,7279.17"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/267","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 10:\u003c/strong\u003e Oh, anyway, I don't... Oh, alright, just in case.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=7280.86,7283.26"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/268","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 6:\u003c/strong\u003e Did you ever have any difficult emotional status that you had to get from the people? I mean, not screaming and yelling, you know, that you have to work with to draw out of these people.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=7291.55,7304.87"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/269","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 10:\u003c/strong\u003e Oh yes, this happens. Yes, I think really, emotions in this sort of film tend to be fairly basic and fairly uncomplicated, I think. It's as much the force of circumstances as the people who are involved in them. So in this aspect they are, they will be or they are totally different to the subject of the Christmas film for instance, which will depend so much on, well it will still be the force but you'll be using the people this time. Well, I've had all sorts of problems, yes, but none of them I don't think particularly interest you because they're all fairly minor ones in the sense of the emotion was a fairly basic one. It wasn't psychologically terribly complex.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=7307.19,7354.68"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/270","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 6:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, I don't think any emotion is terribly complex. Producing some of them are difficult, you know?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=7356.13,7360.81"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/271","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 10:\u003c/strong\u003e You can even be up a gumtree just having someone saying something of one sentence to camera. I just wanted a man saying to camera simply, you know it's funny when you turn on the cold water tap and nothing runs out. This old rusty triple. The whole thing hits you more, there's something all wrong. I mean, something like that, which is a fairly simple thing to say, which was the sort of thing I reckon that would mean more to the ordinary domestic audience. And I went on to 13 takes and a man couldn't say this. What was his problem? Oh, I don't know, he just... Crum? Stumbled? Yeah, he wouldn't, yeah, there was a sort of technical problem, he couldn't get it, he kept saying trusty Rickall and things like that. That's a technical thing, but even so, he just seized up. Well, now, that's a basic thing, but, you know, I had one woman, and, I mean, it was supposed to be a crowd scene in a riot, and a rather sort of fascist citizen's auxiliary called drive up in a truck and run a child down, and this precipitates a rather mass mauling of these auxiliary people by the crowd. And I actually used a woman with her real son, I thought, well, this is fair enough. And I said to her, right, you are in this situation, the truck comes up, well put your boy under that truck as soon as the truck stops and the camera will be approaching from the back. By the time the camera charges through the crowd to the front, you'll just be picking your boy up under the wheels of the thing. And because the truck has gone over the curb, it'll look as though he's hit someone in the crowd. By the time that camera charges to it, we'll see you picking this boy up when no one's your boy. And she was dead worried about this because the truck has to come bouncing up the screech to a halt then she has to put a boy underneath and we tried it once and the truck wasn't in the brakes properly so it used four or six inches and it was a panicked fit. But I said I want you to pick this boy up and I want to you to go bloody animal mad! I said, you're two months hungry, you are two months under various debilitating conditions and your rations are down to a minimum, and this happens, you've got a boy lying there who feels odd in your arms now, and there's some blood coming out of his mouth because he has an internal puncture. Now I want you to go mad at these people in this truck. Could she do this? I shouted and screamed, I ruptured myself, the crowd were going berserk, the conditions couldn't have been better, and she just looked like some of the Alison Trinian's. She could not do it. Somebody out of what? You know, a sort of girls' school thing. You know. A hockey team. So, you know, these two examples have been very basic and simple, but these sort of problems happen. Did you finally get it? No, I had to have a man in me, and I got someone who wasn't, see, this is the cheat, someone who was not the boy's father at all, and he looks marvelous. He looks as though he was sort of about to throw the boy body at the people and sort of go and castrate every one of them.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=7362.82,7532.45"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/272","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 6:\u003c/strong\u003e What do you think made him able to do it?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=7532.1,7534.44"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/273","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 10:\u003c/strong\u003e Because he had this sort of intelligence and he grasped it. You already had already understood the scene. I said to this woman, I said this is your own boy, I almost kicked the boy in the teeth to make her really react and I just read everything she damn well knew what the scene was and what was supposed to happen. But she couldn't do it. And being a mother doesn't always have any advantage whatsoever. It's sort of this basic sort of click, I understand, click. I'll forget inhibitions, click, I can do it. Sort of clicks take place. And sometimes with people, no click takes place at all. I don't know, I had another scene which should have worked fairly well but didn't work quite as well because the woman just wouldn't give. But I have a house 27 miles from the epicenter of a series of megaton explosions on an airfield and nothing is happening in that house really. Correction, it's further than 30 miles. Nothing is happening in that house other than the place is undergoing prolonged blast wave so that it means that everything is going... It's going like this, and the whole house is going like that, and this goes on for 45 seconds and all this family are doing is... The boy has been out in the field and because they don't hear the sirens...","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423#t=7534.87,7604.98"}]},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["English [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262423/transcript/79539/annotation/274","type":"Annotation","motivation":"subtitling","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/file_transcripts/associated_files/000/079/539/original/trint_Coll458_jb0068_Watkins_Gill_02_p1_transcript.vtt?1747071003","format":"text/vtt","language":"en"},"target":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/file_transcripts/associated_files/000/079/539/original/trint_Coll458_jb0068_Watkins_Gill_02_p1_transcript.vtt?1747071003"}]}]},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262418","type":"Canvas","label":{"en":["Media File 3 of 3 - Coll458_jb0068_Watkins_Gill_02_p2.mp3"]},"duration":87.11837,"width":640,"height":360,"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/public/images/audio-default.png","type":"Image","format":"image/png"}],"items":[{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262418/content/1","type":"AnnotationPage","items":[{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262418/content/3/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"painting","body":{"id":"https://aviary-p-universityoforegonlibraries.s3.wasabisys.com/collection_resource_files/resource_files/000/262/418/original/Coll458_jb0068_Watkins_Gill_02_p2.mp3?1739228037","type":"Audio","format":"audio/mpeg","duration":87.11837,"width":640,"height":360},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262418","metadata":[]}]}],"annotations":[{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262418/transcript/79504","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["AUTO_TRINT_Coll458_jb0068_Watkins_Gill_02_p2.mp3 [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262418/transcript/79504/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e When he suffers thermal whiteouts, flash dazzle, and they pick him up and run inside the house and it's all awful fun, the camera runs into the house with them and this stuff and they just grub on the table and but when they charged into the House they had one little boy in their arms and I had a baby on the floor they had to pick up and the baby was screaming his bloody head off when we were filming this and this sort of, the scene looks horrifying because there's a boy charging And the camera is bouncing, and we've got all the crockery on the... How did you do that? Oh, I just shake the thing. But you know, the woman's face wasn't right. And I couldn't do this again, because I got her out there, all sort of great plan and what not. But she just didn't give something. Couldn't quite. But the scene is luckily overall not bad, so you don't really... Do you feel the association will be enough? I think it will in this case, but I just wanted a sort of awful sort of... Non-comprehensive gait from her, which is a very difficult thing to get from some people, and it didn't quite come, but because you don't really see it, and this kid is screaming in the other one, like, he's a marvelous kid, isn't he, and he was going, ah, ah, and it was something incredible, and, you know, but that's another...","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262418#t=4.43,81.44"}]},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262418/transcript/79504","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["English [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141817/file/262418/transcript/79504/annotation/2","type":"Annotation","motivation":"subtitling","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/file_transcripts/associated_files/000/079/504/original/trint_Coll458_jb0068_Watkins_Gill_02_p2_transcript.vtt?1747070073","format":"text/vtt","language":"en"},"target":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/file_transcripts/associated_files/000/079/504/original/trint_Coll458_jb0068_Watkins_Gill_02_p2_transcript.vtt?1747070073"}]}]}]}