{"@context":"http://iiif.io/api/presentation/3/context.json","id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/iiif/qr4nk3715b/manifest","type":"Manifest","label":{"en":["Oral History Interview with Susi Thelen"]},"logo":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/029/original/uo-logo-hires.png?1580744881","metadata":[{"label":{"en":["Identifier"]},"value":{"en":["Coll520_do072"]}},{"label":{"en":["Format"]},"value":{"en":["Digital Video File"]}},{"label":{"en":["Date"]},"value":{"en":["2019 August 27"]}},{"label":{"en":["Description"]},"value":{"en":["The Eugene Lesbian Oral History Project Collection consists of interviews of 83 people for the Eugene Lesbian Oral History Project, conducted by Professor Judith Raiskin and Curator Linda Long at the University of Oregon starting in the summer of 2018."]}},{"label":{"en":["Abstract"]},"value":{"en":["Susi was born in 1961, a third-generation Oregonian. She grew up in Beaverton. She was successful in high school; she was an athlete and was involved in student government. In 1969, her parents had a spiritual experience and turned to an Indian guru, \"Guru Maharaja\" of the Divine Light Mission. Despite the publicity of her family in this cult, Susi was secretive in school about her family's participation. The fear and secrecy she experienced in the Divine Light taught her how to be closeted as a lesbian. She attended the University of Oregon and majored in journalism and advertising. She also joined a sorority. But she was unhappy and lonely and thought about suicide. She had a girlfriend but they were both very closeted. Susi occasionally went to Portland, where she found it easier to be gay. Susi is critical of Eugene's reputation as a liberal city. Susi discusses working for University of Oregon student recruiting. She talks about her wedding in 1993. She concludes her interview by discussing contemporary use of non-binary pronouns and her frustration with LGBTQ identification.\n\nKey terms: Abuse; Ballot Measure 8; Bars (Drinking establishments)  --  Oregon -- Eugene; Closeted gays  --  United States; Drug use; Internalized homophobia; Marriage equality; Rajneeshees  --  Oregon -- Rajneeshpuram; Rape; Self-esteem; Social isolation; Soromundi Lesbian Chorus of Eugene; University of Oregon. School of Journalism and Communication; White flight."]}},{"label":{"en":["Language"]},"value":{"en":["English"]}},{"label":{"en":["Agent"]},"value":{"en":["Susi Thelen (Interviewee)","Judith L. Raiskin (Interviewer)","Linda Long (Interviewer)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Rights Statement"]},"value":{"en":["In Copyright"]}},{"label":{"en":["Publisher"]},"value":{"en":["University of Oregon Libraries"]}},{"label":{"en":["Source Metadata URI"]},"value":{"en":["https://scua.uoregon.edu/repositories/2/archival_objects/607044"]}},{"label":{"en":["Type"]},"value":{"en":["Moving Image"]}}],"summary":{"en":["The Eugene Lesbian Oral History Project Collection consists of interviews of 83 people for the Eugene Lesbian Oral History Project, conducted by Professor Judith Raiskin and Curator Linda Long at the University of Oregon starting in the summer of 2018."]},"requiredStatement":{"label":{"en":["Attribution"]},"value":{"en":["In Copyright"]}},"provider":[{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/aboutus","type":"Agent","label":{"en":["University of Oregon Libraries"]},"homepage":[{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/","type":"Text","label":{"en":["University of Oregon Libraries"]},"format":"text/html"}],"logo":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/029/original/uo-logo-hires.png?1580744881","type":"Image"}]}],"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/collection_resource_files/thumbnails/000/130/613/small/Coll520_do072.jpg?1637589874","type":"Image","format":"image/jpeg"}],"items":[{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613","type":"Canvas","label":{"en":["Media File 1 of 1 - Coll520_do072.mp4"]},"duration":6598.63467,"width":640,"height":360,"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/collection_resource_files/thumbnails/000/130/613/small/Coll520_do072.jpg?1637589874","type":"Image","format":"image/jpeg"}],"items":[{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/content/1","type":"AnnotationPage","items":[{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/content/1/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"painting","body":{"id":"https://aviary-p-universityoforegonlibraries.s3.wasabisys.com/collection_resource_files/resource_files/000/130/613/original/Coll520_do072.mp4?1637589874","type":"Video","format":"video/mp4","duration":6598.63467,"width":640,"height":360},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613","metadata":[]}]}],"annotations":[{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["864_Coll520_do072_aligned [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Long: This oral history interview is part of the Eugene Lesbian Oral History Project. The recordings will be made available through the University of Oregon Special Collections and University Archives.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=1.47,15.89"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/2","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"This is an oral history interview with Susi Thelen on Tuesday, August 27, 2019, taking place in the University of Oregon Libraries’ recording studio in the Center for Media and Educational Technologies. The interviewers are Linda Long, Curator of Manuscripts in the UO Libraries’ Special Collections and University Archives, and Professor Judith Raiskin of the UO Department of Women's, Gender and Sexuality Studies.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=16.45,43.01"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/3","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Susi, please let us know if you agree to be recorded for this project, and that you give your permission for the university to preserve and make available your recorded and transcribed interview.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=43.65,53.41"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/4","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Thelen: I agree, and I agree to have you make it available.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=53.89,56.63"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/5","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Long: Thank you.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=56.64,57.25"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/6","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Thelen: Make sure you stay with technology though because whatever you're doing now is going to change in about a day.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=57.27,63.81"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/7","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Long: Yeah. We thought about that. We know that's going to happen.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=64.45,67.37"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/8","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Okay, well let's get started. Can you please tell us when and where you were born, where you grew up, and something about your early background?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=69.04,75.66"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/9","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Thelen: I am a third generation Oregonian. I was born in Portland at the same hospital my mom was born in, Emanuel Hospital. And I started in Southeast— Northeast Portland, and at the time that I was growing up, it was right when it was starting to— the black community was starting to move in, and my parents moved us to southwest Portland in Beaverton. So complete opposite. Turns out, when I went to grade school, seven of the people I had gone to grade school in northeast were now in Beaverton. So it was kind of the white class sort of moving away from that area, it seemed.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=76.77,125.66"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/10","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Raiskin: What year were you born?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=125.67,126.68"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/11","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Thelen: Nineteen sixty-one. So that was 1966, '67. So my majority of— Well, I lived in southwest, but my grandparents took a lot of care of me in Northeast. So I was both sides of the river, as you might say. In probably the biggest— so I was— my dad owned his own business, my mom was a writer so she stayed at home. I was pretty successful in junior high and high school. I was in three sport, varsity athlete, I was student body president of Beaverton High School, won state tournaments and various things. Probably the biggest aspect of my life that may be different than most people's is in 1969, my parents joined a cult, basically. An Indian— started following an Indian guru, and brought our family into that. So from 1969 on, the reason we were so intricately involved is all the other people involved in this were sort of hippie young kids kind of, and our family was white, upper class. We had a Volvo. So we’re the ones the media showed. We were the— to show that it wasn't like this hippie cult kind of thing. But it really, it was, in this—","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=126.97,231.27"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/12","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Raiskin: What was it called?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=231.83,233.16"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/13","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Thelen: It was called Divine Light Mission. The practitioner was named— at the time, was named Guru Maharaj Ji. He still is a practicing spiritual teacher. He's changed his name now to his Indian name. It was a very hard part of my childhood. It was very immersive, our parents cut the table legs off the table, and all of a sudden we were vegetarian. We had a lot of strange people living at our house. We were taken to meetings and asked to speak on this subject because my brother and I were the first— the youngest people that had this knowledge that this guru was giving in North America, so we were sort of brought up as this Thelen family, like— and for my brother and I, when you're— His philosophy is very similar to other Indian philosophies, but when you're that young, it's a very hard philosophy to deal with, and we're talking one day I came home and all my bedroom was gone. My bed, my dresser, because Maharaj Ji's mother had come. It's called the divine mother. And she didn't have any place to sleep, so they took— like all my furniture was gone. And I never got it back, because once the divine mother sleeps on somebody's thing, no other person can ever sleep on it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=233.18,327.89"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/14","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So that being said, that's why I spent a lot of time at my grandparent's house who very much was afraid for my brother and I. And my parents were also going to rock concerts and— I'm kind of the kid of new age parents. So, my grandparents would take us to church every Sunday and sort of grill us about what was happening at our house which we wouldn't tell them because we were protecting my mom and dad. Regarding me being gay, this comes into play because there was a lot of secrets for me. No one in my circle of friends knew about the guru because it was just so hard to explain. I would lie when I would be going to festivals and— So there was a whole other life I had that my friends didn't know. And that's hard. It still is hard. I mean I've had to go to therapy just for that part of my upbringing. It wasn't any sexual abuse or violence by any means, but it was very immersive.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=328.42,400.21"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/15","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I, for instance, twice— the Paramount Theater in Portland, which is now called the Schnitzer, is a very large venue. I was chosen to speak twice up there in support of Maharaj Ji when he was in, because I was the youngest. Well, I didn't know what to say. I mean, constantly I was searching, like, \"What do people look like when they're blissed out? What are people talking about?\" And that was similar to my journey of being gay. “What do gay people look like?” “How do they talk?” “Do I want to talk like that?” “Do I not want to talk like that?” I only saw that combination as I got older.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=400.64,441.7"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/16","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So I moved from Beaverton to go to U of O in 1979. My parents had been married twenty-nine years, and they got a divorce as soon as I left. Which was really hard, because I never got to come home. And back then, we didn't have any way to keep in touch with anybody other than going home. You didn't have any of your friend's email, there was no email, you didn't have anybody's phone number. So for me, that was really tough. When I went to U of O, only— I had a graduating class of 425. Three hundred and eight-six went to OSU. My mom and my dad and all my family had gone to OSU. I was a triple legacy at a sorority at OSU. I knew the fight song of OSU, I knew everything about OSU. And only eleven people went to U of O.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=442.34,499.92"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/17","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So why did I go there? You know, a lot of it had to do with I just didn't want to just keep being the same person I was in high school.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=499.92,511.06"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/18","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I didn't know what an identity I wanted to be, but there's no way I could have broken free with— it just felt like, I remember thinking, \"I'm never going to get lost in Corvallis. I mean I'm never going to experience a new restaurant.\" So I broke, and my parents have never even been to Eugene. They went to Oregon State, and you didn't go to Eugene in the '50s. It was a bastion of liberalism, and none of my— everyone in my family was very worried I wasn't going to get a good education by going to Eugene. My parents didn't take me to school. They didn't drop me off.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=511.06,549.35"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/19","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Raiskin: Were they angry that you came here?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=549.7,552.93"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/20","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Thelen: No, not angry. Just like— no, not angry. It was just like sort of mystified I guess would be the word. So I did want a journalism degree, but it really wasn't just that. It was the just— yeah. So in the end, it was really lonely. I remember walking down the street in freshman year just like, I didn't know anybody, and I was like, knew everybody. So I'm not saying it was easy, but that's how I ended up going to U of O. And because I didn't have a home to come back to, I had to pay for all my room and board, so I had to stay in Eugene every summer and work three jobs. And I worked two jobs going through school.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=553.38,600.91"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/21","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Raiskin: Did you know that Eugene was a cultural center for lesbians when you came here?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=601.44,606.69"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/22","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Thelen: No. I had no idea.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=606.71,608.39"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/23","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Long: Before we go into that, can we just back up for a sec? I wanted to ask about your parents.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=609.2,613.69"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/24","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Thelen: Yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=613.8,613.85"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/25","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Long: Were you raised as a Christian?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=613.87,616.33"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/26","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Thelen: Yes. Uh-huh [affirmative].","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=616.34,617.27"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/27","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Long: So you were—","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=617.27,617.72"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/28","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Thelen: I was baptized and raised in the same church that my parents were married in and that my brother was married in. Disciples of Christ, there's a Disciples of Christ here in Eugene that I am drawn to because it was very stable for me. It was something at that age, I remember thinking, I just want somebody— in Eastern philosophy, they teach God is within, inside yourself. Well, when you're like twelve, thirteen, I wanted something bigger than me, I remember.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=617.74,653.49"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/29","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So, that was really hard, because I was supposed to know all the answers, and that's what I was taught. So as I've gone later in life, it's a recurring theme that I act like I know what I'm doing all the time, I've always had jobs way over my ability. My brother and I have had careers way above our peers, and it's because we were trained to just do things and blindly sort of act like we knew what we were doing.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=654.07,687.52"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/30","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Long: Why do you think your parents were attracted to the Indian guru?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=687.63,692.81"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/31","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Thelen: Well, I think they— Number one, if you look back in history, that era of parents, you know, they grew up in the '50s. They all looked alike, they did exactly what their parents, so— I've talked to my parents deeply since then, and in the bottom line, they did the exact opposite of what their parents were because the '50s were so restrictive. It's not uncommon if you look back, especially in Oregon, the number of cults that happened in that area. I personally— well, I know— I think they probably enjoyed the fact that they were— we always got to the front of the line, we were the— we weren't just one of the crowd, you know. My mom definitely had a narcissism, and my mom was considered the divine mother, too. So, at our house when we had meetings, people would wait in line to wash my mom's feet. The point is, I think she really liked that and got off on it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=692.82,763.41"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/32","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"But, I believe they were having a spiritual experience. The things that they did and the hours they drove. And they used to say to me, \"Hey, you could be born and raised Catholic, and you could have Jesus on a bloody cross in your living room. Instead you have—\" He was ten when he came to the United States. They never thought at all in any sort of the— the kids would have anything wrong.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=763.76,802.43"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/33","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"They really just thought because of what they had when they were kids, that this would have been something they would have loved and cherished. So we were never asked.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=803.17,813.89"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/34","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Raiskin: And how did you experience it? Other than secrecy from your friends, but the actual—","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=813.9,821.89"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/35","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Thelen: I had no spiritual experience. I was anxious all the time, I have an anxiety disorder I'm sure because of that, because I was constantly— people would come up to me and go, \"What does it feel like to have Maharaj Ji know your name, and to be blissed out all the time, and oh my gosh, you're part of the Thelen family.\" So I constantly had to put on a front for something— I didn't know what being blissed out looked like. I would only know by somebody else. I didn't like any of the food we were forced to eat.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=822.02,860.96"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/36","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"My grandmother and grandfather when they came to our house would slip us five dollars so we could go to Denny's and eat something. Is that the worst thing in the world? No. A lot of kids have that. But it was so foreign, and there were so many strangers in our house all the time. There was a lot of sort of nudity and marriages in our backyard. Just a lot of chaos, and a lot of me not knowing what was going on. My parents would leave a lot and I didn't know where they were. So a lot of— Now my brother, when I was ten, my parents sat us down and said, \"We are no longer the Thelen family. We are a family of the Divine Light Mission.\" My brother was twelve, and he told me from then on, he didn't believe he had a family. So he has checked out to this day. For me, I did it that other way. I have constantly tried way too hard to keep a family and to keep friends. So it really affected me in a very hard way.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=861.77,931.12"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/37","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Long: What did you think when the Rajneeshees came to Oregon in the early '80s?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=932.12,936.23"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/38","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Thelen: Actually, ironically, I was in The Dalles when they came. I had graduated from college, and my first job was in The Dalles. So I actually went to Rajneeshpuram three times, and I went because I was in The Dalles, and there was so much anger. I mean people are walking with, with like— they have jackknives, or whatever, flip knives, and they'd cut the Rolls-Royces' tires and they'd spit on them, and I'd be like, \"Well, have you gone there? Do you know anything about them?\" It was so intense. And I'm like, \"I have to go out there. I have to see with my own eyes.\" I didn't know if I'd have like a panic attack or anything, but I did.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=936.2,983.28"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/39","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Raiskin: How old were you when—","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=983.3,984.11"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/40","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Thelen: I was twenty-one, and so the first— and I'm not going to— we could— this is a whole other subject. But I'll just say it briefly. The Rajneeshpuram— See Wild Country, the documentary— basically had a start, and an epic, perfect, and then a bad apex. And I went to all three times. So the first time— I'm not going to go through all three times, but one of the times I went was when the Rajneesh would drive down the center of the road, and everyone got bent down, and I didn't. Which was weird, because when Maharaj Ji did, I'd always bend down. So I'm like, \"I'm not going to do it.\" Saw a lot of naked women in the back of the Rolls-Royce with him.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=984.13,1036.74"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/41","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"People with guns in the car with him. And I was like, \"Wow,\" you know. It was really— So, then I came back sort of right at the end, and it was really scary.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=1037.83,1050.22"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/42","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Super, super scary. Lots of guns, I was met— it's a public road, but I was met almost a quarter of a mile in by two cars, and it's a whole story. I don't regret it. It was very traumatizing for me to do. I didn't go with anybody because I didn't want to explain whatever might happen to me. But yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=1050.25,1076.13"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/43","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Raiskin: What insight did visiting Rajneeshpuram give you about your—","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=1076.14,1080.96"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/44","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Thelen: It gave me a lot of empathy and compassion towards my experience, because I saw a lot of little kids there, and I just gave myself a lot of room to realize that when you're that age, you just really just don't have a choice. But it's really scary for those little kids to see their parents all of a sudden go on the ground and bow at some guy driving by in a Rolls-Royce. I mean I could see it in their eyes. I've constantly searched, I'd say about every two years, I look on the internet for somebody with a story like mine just to kind of see what it's like. It's a big part— I've had to go to a therapist that specializes in this kind of thing because I have so many little landmines. I have a landmine towards patchouli oil, and in the early lesbian days, that was a very familiar smell. That was a very big landmine for me, because that's what people wore back then.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=1080.97,1152.46"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/45","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Raiskin: How would you say that your experience as a child influenced your coming into lesbian community as a young adult?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=1152.56,1162.22"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/46","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Thelen: I don't think they're related. They're only related in the amount of secrecy that was involved in my early lesbian years, and the amount of pain and burden and familiarity that secrecy caused.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=1165.89,1185.84"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/47","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And the way I was able to pull it off, and it became so easy to hide so well. I think if I didn't have the background I had, I think I would have come out a lot sooner because it's really hard being closeted. And it wasn't as hard for me because of my background of hiding.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=1185.98,1207.31"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/48","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Raiskin: And why did you feel it necessary to hide being a lesbian?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=1207.33,1212.11"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/49","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Thelen: Well, in the early, early years, I used to— my big thing was I used to keep— there were two things. One, I had been sexually abused, raped, very, very badly in high school. My father also abused me.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=1213.72,1233.73"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/50","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And I hadn't told anybody about those. But in my back of my mind I kept thinking, \"I don't want to be gay just because of those.\" And I was really worried about that. I was like, I was just really worried about it. And that was that part. And then I used to keep telling myself I don't want to pick apples over oranges if I haven't tasted an orange, because it didn't feel right. So you didn't have any role models to look at, and nobody looked like me. I knew one friend, good friend that I had in high school, and I knew she was gay. But nothing about her looked like me, she didn't talk like me, she didn't even talk like I wanted to be, or look like I wanted to be. She looked and talked like a person I didn't want to be. That's why I say I think it's so awesome for role models now, I think that's a big deal. But I didn't have any that I knew of.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=1234.47,1304.96"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/51","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Raiskin: What do you think at that time your parents' attitude would have been?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=1307.22,1317.31"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/52","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Thelen: I know, because when I came out to them, but I think— And my parents, my mom was sad because of the no marriage, no kids.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=1317.33,1330.6"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/53","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"That was her biggest sorrow. And clearly that was sorrow for her, or a sorrow for me. That I wouldn't get that. That was her biggest sorrow. Later, when I told her about the abuse, then she full-on went that that's why I was gay, which really bothered me because I had kind of determined that wasn't it. My dad, and you know— they also were parents in retrospect— like my brother wasn't surprised. He said, \"Oh, I've known that.\" Whether it was because of the stereotype of being in so many sports— But like here's a little tidbit for you. In high school, I told you I was a three sport athlete, but I purposely did not join softball because I didn't want to be considered gay. To this day I've never played softball. Back in the early Eugene days, that was the way you met a lot of people, was softball. And I never, never did that, because I didn't want people to think I was gay.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=1330.79,1407.88"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/54","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Raiskin: What were your negative ideas or attitudes about being a lesbian, and where do you think you got those from?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=1408.26,1416.35"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/55","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Thelen: You mean why I wouldn't have wanted to been considered gay?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=1416.37,1420.11"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/56","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Raiskin: Or the internalized homophobia.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=1420.13,1420.88"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/57","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Thelen: Yeah, yeah. Totally. That's what it is. Oh, I didn't see people wanting to— Okay, this is just back then. That people didn't seem to want to dress nicer, as nice as I wanted to dress, or have conversations about— what I can say is back then it was so gay. I mean everything was gay, gay, gay, and I'm like, \"You know, I don't want to just be all gay. I don't want to just hang around with—\" I still have very few in quotes “gay friends.” I just want— it just wasn't my thing, and people that I saw were gay were so gay, it was like that's all the people they hung out with, that was all the things they talked about, that was all the potlucks they did, and I was just like, \"I don't— I want more.\" And I felt, back then, pretty aggressive attitude to people that were like me. That weren't— it was almost like an attitude of being bisexual, which I wasn't, meaning you can have your cake and eat it, too. You want to be able to be in the world and be gay. And that was like— I'm like, \"Yeah, that's what I want.\" And that was because of the dress, the kind of dress, the kind of slang, the kind of like anti-heterosexual verbiage. I will give you an example. They would— they, the gay people that I didn't want to be like, we'd call heterosexual people breeders. And I hated that.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=1420.9,1519.67"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/58","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I'm like, \"Why are you even—\" It's just— So, you know, I mean I didn't have a role model of anybody sort of like me, so when you're on the fence of whether you're gay or not, it's hard. It was really hard.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=1519.88,1534.61"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/59","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Raiskin: Well, it was another set of constraints, and you'd already come out of constraints.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=1534.62,1537.51"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/60","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Thelen: Right, it felt like I— right. And clearly because I didn't go to Oregon State, you know, I'm not a big follower. I'm not any big independent leader or anything, but I want to just be who I am, and that has been throughout my gayness, that's the most freeing part about me right now is I don't have to even tell people I'm gay, and that's just awesome. Then they went through a thing where you have to say lesbian, which I think we're in right now. And you can't say gay, so I'll start using the— forever. I never wanted to use the lesbian word, you know.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=1537.51,1579.26"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/61","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Raiskin: What does “lesbian” sound like to you? Like what's like—","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=1579.28,1580.95"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/62","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Thelen: Well, back then, I mean it was just— it felt so sexual to me. And so much of a, like, a thing you had to be. It was like a thing you were.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=1580.97,1593.74"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/63","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And I didn't want to be anything. I didn't feel— so, luckily, I've never really felt discriminated against for this. So a lot of my friends were really angry, you know, and I would say, \"Maybe you're angry because you dress slobby, and you're sort of mean spirited, and you don't do your hair, and of course people are going to have an attitude,\" and they would be like, \"Well, they just can fricking live with it, because this is who I am,\" and I'm like, \"Well, I guess I'm going to play the game.\" Another thing I'm probably sure you've heard. That would have been called a lipstick lesbian, I guess it's what you would have— So here I am now labeled a lipstick lesbian, which is like “Great!","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=1594.38,1642.33"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/64","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Great!” [laughs]. I'm blow drying my hair, you know. Back in early years you really couldn't get away without being labeled something. And I have to say, the various pods of lesbians were not welcoming to other people. It was very— like I'd have an event at my house and literally be asked, \"Will there be any straight people there?\" Lots of times. And in my case, there would be. Just because I got asked that, I'm like, \"Well screw you, I'm going to invite—\" I mean, why do you even ask that? But I know lots of people to this day that do that.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=1644.68,1683.67"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/65","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Raiskin: And where did your life intersect with the lesbian community in Eugene? Where would you run into people, be with people?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=1683.69,1691.84"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/66","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Thelen: I joined a sorority. And I did so because I didn't really know anybody, and I really wanted that family influence.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=1691.85,1704.29"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/67","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Raiskin: Was it the one you were legacy to, or they don't have it here—","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=1704.29,1706.19"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/68","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Thelen: No, I was in a— yeah they had it there, and I was supposed to join that one. No, I didn't join that one. I joined the one I joined because it was the smallest, and you got your own room, is why I joined it. I didn't—","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=1706.0,1719.8"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/69","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Long: But which one was it?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=1719.82,1721.11"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/70","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Thelen: It was Alpha Delta Pi, was the name. Did I know I was gay at the time? I probably did. I hadn't had an experience with a woman. Did I want to be? Absolutely not. Maybe I joined it to prove that I didn't want to be. It just seemed hard. Everything about it seemed really hard to me. Way harder than addressing the subject to myself. I didn't have any vision of anybody that I wanted to hang with or look like, so when I joined the sorority, about seven months into it I met a woman that lived across the street in another sorority, and we just totally hit it off, and so then this is the basic lesbian best friend story. But you got to throw it into being in a sorority.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=1721.13,1783.97"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/71","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So it was— we— oh man. So, you know, in a sorority you have dances, you have this, you have that. I also had two jobs. So after the first year, and then I had met Julie, I was getting so many fines in the sorority, and I could never even eat dinner because I was working all the time.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=1784.89,1811.31"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/72","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Raiskin: Fines for what?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=1812.03,1813.1"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/73","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Thelen: For not showing up to dinner, not going to parties, and for me, I didn't like going to these parties, because it really was about hooking up with guys, and I had to now start making up stories. I remember on Friday I would start making up my story of what happened on Saturday night so on Sunday morning when we all made for breakfast, I could tell a story. And made sure the pronouns matched and the whole thing. So really—","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=1813.39,1842.71"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/74","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Raiskin: As if you had been at the party or a different party.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=1842.73,1844.2"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/75","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Thelen: Exactly. I'd always had be at a different party. So it was very hard, very emotional, very isolating. Even though they didn't know, right?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=1844.14,1855.17"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/76","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Raiskin: And what were you doing on Friday and Saturday nights?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=1855.17,1859.1"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/77","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Thelen: I would just find something to do on my own. Very lonely. Yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=1859.1,1863.71"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/78","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Really hard. So, sometime in there, I'll tell you this. There were— no, here it comes to the— there were three, and I know you guys know this, but there were three bars in Eugene back in the— and this is like '79, '80. And there was a newspaper for— so the newspaper's called The Lavender Network, I think it was— probably went through a variety of names. And there were three bars, and one was a woman's bar. It's escaping me now. I'll remember it in a moment. And the other two were not women's bars. But the women's bar was like full-on just—","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=1865.41,1913.08"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/79","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Raiskin: The Riviera Room?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=1913.1,1914.52"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/80","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Thelen: Yep. That's it. Oh my gosh, yeah. So it took me so much, but I finally was able to kind of— I didn't have a fake ID or anything, but I was able to get in to the women's bar. It was my first time ever.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=1914.53,1929.82"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/81","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And I was personally horrified. I saw women with T-shirts with cigarettes rolled up in their, you know— Every quotes “stereotype” you could imagine, and absolutely no entrée for any part of who I am or who I wanted to be. And kind of scary, because I'm like— I didn't see a future of being gay if that was gay. And so then now what am I supposed to do? And some women would come and talk to me, and the people seemed very scary to me. And it was not— It was like a sociological dig for me, you know? I mean I'm just— I was open.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=1930.28,1979.01"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/82","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So then when I went to the other bars it felt a lot easier being around gay men. Mostly because they didn't care about women.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=1979.02,1989.4"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/83","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Although there was a period when women started going to Perry's and the men got really mad. But for the most of the thing, so— That was a hard part of that.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=1989.43,2005.24"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/84","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Raiskin: But you knew you were attracted to women.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=2005.44,2008.01"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/85","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Thelen: I did.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=2008.02,2008.56"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/86","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Raiskin: And then you didn't see—","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=2008.58,2009.75"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/87","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Thelen: I didn't see any, and so my friend Julie and I, she, I swear, is like identical situation as me, and we didn't even say it even out loud, we called it “The question.” Like how drunk are we going to have to get? How stoned are we going to have to get? It was really— so when we finally became physical, for the next two years, we didn't tell anybody. We would go out on dates in our sorority and come home and then meet somewhere. Very painful. Make a point we weren't seen together because best friends are only seen a certain amount of time together. It fit right into sort of my cult sort of hiding and planning. It was really hard. So, my sophomore year I quit the sorority, mostly because I just didn't have any— I just wasn't having any fun, and I was not going to anything.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=2009.88,2083.05"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/88","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Raiskin: [crosstalk 00:34:43].","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=2083.24,2083.41"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/89","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Thelen: So it was very traumatic, because when you quit a sorority, they what they call disaffiliate you, and they like never speak to you again. It's like— and I was like, \"I thought we were sisters for life, you know? We did a blood covenant.\" But it's like, \"No, you are gone.\"","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=2083.43,2103.06"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/90","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Raiskin: It's another cult situation.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=2103.23,2104.62"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/91","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Thelen: It really kind of is, you know. It fits for people— it fits fine. I don't really have a judgment about it. There's a lot of gay women that come from a sorority thing. I never felt physically attracted to anybody there. I never felt like it was— that I was— you know, looking at them in any different way. Some people would think that. I just wanted the emotional involvement, and so that was really hard for me when that went away.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=2105.08,2143.48"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/92","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Raiskin: Did you know of any gay organizations on campus that you might—","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=2143.49,2148.75"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/93","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Thelen: No. When I was a junior in college, I was date raped. Very traumatic. Just like you hear about now, but there's all that help, you know? And I didn't— I thought it was my fault, the whole thing. It was terrible. And that was the only time I reached out.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=2148.84,2177.33"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/94","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And ironically, I had joined a— now I remember. I joined a women's group with three other people, and I had sort of come out to them. And one of the people knew a woman at the Health Center, turned out to be Deb Landforce, who was a graduate student, and she said, \"She's gay, she's wonderful, you just need to talk to her.\" And because I knew she was gay, I just couldn't call her. I didn't want her to convince me I was gay. I wanted somebody just neutral. So my junior year in college here at U of O, I almost committed suicide. I was going to jump off a parking garage. Because I just had nothing. I didn't have any touch points at all.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=2177.76,2227.33"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/95","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And in this particular case, I was really drunk, and I remember thinking to myself, \"Okay, if you're sober in the morning, then you can do it.\" Now I don't know where that comes from, where that fortitude happens, but it happened, and then that next morning I called the University Health Center, and they said there was as two week waiting list, and I said— I mean you have to get— for me to do that— I mean I know it's for a lot of people, but for me, for me, it was— to me to even dial it, and I said, \"Well, I really can't wait,\" and they said, \"Well we have nothing for you.\" So that happened in 1981 or '82 at U of O. I mean I don't know why I didn't kill myself.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=2227.43,2278.77"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/96","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"But I could have, very easily. U of O was— So, did I go deeper to find any resources? And I would say no, because I didn't want— like I said, I didn't want to go to a gay and lesbian place, because I wasn't— I just wanted to go to a place, you know? And have somebody talk to me as a person rather than as a lesbian or a person that's been sexually abused. For the lesbian, there were a lot of resources, but they felt so lesbian, you know?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=2278.8,2317.62"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/97","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And I didn't feel so lesbian, kind of thing.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=2317.65,2321.1"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/98","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Raiskin: And was the Women's Center active then?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=2321.12,2322.97"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/99","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Thelen: I have no idea. I don't know.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=2322.99,2325.06"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/100","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Raiskin: And what were you majoring in?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=2326.71,2327.86"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/101","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Thelen: Journalism. Advertising journalism.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=2328.36,2331.52"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/102","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Raiskin: And where were you living then by the time you were—","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=2331.53,2335.06"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/103","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Thelen: I got an apartment after the sorority. From that moment on, I never lived with anybody again. I always had my own place. Not again, but during those years.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=2335.08,2348.35"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/104","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Raiskin: So, it sounds like you were saving your life in some ways after that moment.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=2348.55,2356.75"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/105","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Thelen: Yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=2356.76,2357.1"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/106","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Raiskin: How did you do that? What did you find for yourself?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=2357.2,2361.18"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/107","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Thelen: Well, it was rough. Those were very, very dark years for me.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=2361.2,2369.3"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/108","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Because I was also still going to this cult with my mom and dad.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=2369.57,2373.41"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/109","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=2374.36,2374.73"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/110","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Long: After you were in college?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=2375.1,2376.01"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/111","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Thelen: Yeah. Because they had festivals. And you— I mean my therapist said, \"Well why did you go?\" And I'm like, \"I didn't even really think I could not go.\" I mean I didn't even remember saying I'll go. I mean it was just something I did. But I didn't tell people where I was going, I didn't debrief it after I was coming back.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=2376.02,2398.62"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/112","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Raiskin: And your parents were divorced at this point, right?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=2398.64,2400.74"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/113","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Thelen: Yeah, but one of them would— You know? It was very dark. It was hard. Very hard. So let's see. My senior year, one of my friends that is in journalism— Well, let me make sure I'm— Nope, I'm not there yet. My senior year, Julie and I were the only gay people we knew.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=2400.71,2427.79"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/114","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And she was in a sorority. She was still in a sorority. I had left the sorority. She would go out on all the dances and it was just really painful. So how did I save myself? I think just being alone. I'm very glad I don't have an addictive personality, so I didn't become addicted to any— and I tried to— I have fun and stuff, but it just— college was not a good time for me. I think in the end, knowing what I know now, it would have been better for my persona to be at Oregon State just because I would have had more foundational friends. I wouldn't have been just so out there.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=2429.43,2481.85"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/115","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So, when I was in college, I would like go to Portland, and I remember going to Pride in Portland. Because no one would know me there. So I would go there, I started going to— there was a restaurant in Portland called Hobo's, I don't know if you ever heard of that. Hobo's was a— it would look like the Excelsior now. It's a very sort of high end, really nice food, very nice bar. A lot of business people would have gone there, and it was gay and lesbian friendly. I felt really safe there. I could see more people like me. It was right next to Darcelle's, which, Darcelle's was— is a drag show place in Portland. It's been there forever. So when I went traveling, I'd always look up gay places or gay parts of town to go to, to see what was happening and what it would look like. So I tried to just sort of see, \"Do I feel comfortable here?\" I was kind of on this exploration.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=2484.09,2557.94"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/116","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Raiskin: It seems brave to me. To go to these different places.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=2557.94,2562.37"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/117","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Thelen: Yeah. It felt better because it was more anonymous. And back then, may I add, it was hard to find them. Because you didn't have an internet. Really it was The Lavender Network or each town sometimes you could find— so now we're back to Eugene— there was a women's bookstore, Mother Kali’s, which was hard for me to go into sometimes because known lesbians were there. I remember one time I went there and I knew somebody, and they went, \"Hi,\" like, \"Oh my God, I didn't know you were gay,\" and it just completely freaked me out. Which was sad, right? I remember walking away going, \"How sad is that?\" I don't even know how to be their friends. I don't know the nuances of the lesbian community because I didn't play softball— I used to ride my bike past softball fields where all the women were playing. Once in a while I'd stop and watch just to kind of, again, see what it was like, can I see myself out there. So it was kind of a long— you know, and this comes back to the cult thing. I never got to ask for help there, and I kind of just came into the same secretive thing of trying to figure out where I fit in.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=2562.39,2647.49"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/118","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Raiskin: Did you ever talk to Izzie Harbaugh at Mother Kali’s?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=2647.51,2651.29"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/119","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Thelen: Yeah, I knew her. But I never talked to her.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=2651.31,2653.85"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/120","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Raiskin: She talked to a lot of young people who were in your situation.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=2653.87,2656.1"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/121","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Thelen: Yeah, she did. She did. She was definitely a really important mainstay of the— so, when I would go there, I could find a book that would have, like if I went to L.A., with known places you could go, and that's what I was saying that I could find. But even then it was— I mean that's how closeted I felt emotionally. So where are we now?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=2656.12,2689.57"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/122","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Long: What year did you graduate?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=2690.33,2691.7"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/123","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Thelen: I graduated college in 1982. Excuse me, '83.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=2692.44,2696.44"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/124","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Raiskin: And so what was the next part of your life?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=2696.6,2701.05"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/125","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Thelen: So my next part of my life was I moved to The Dalles. I was in— I graduated in advertising, and I've always worked in advertising, my whole career. So yes, you can go to school and do something that you actually studied. I didn't know anybody in The Dalles. I had to find a map on how to even go there. I've worked in the newspaper industry, and I was on a publisher's track for the newspaper there. And so you know, a part of me was— Julie and I were still very, very involved. She graduated and went to Burns. It was like— [shakes head] Because she was in TV, so she had to go to a small TV market to work her way up, and we decided that we weren't going to see each other when we graduated because it just— we had to break that state.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=2701.06,2758.2"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/126","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So, when I was in The Dalles, I met a man who I just really liked, and you know, and long story, within nine months, he came out to me. He was a gay guy. And it took me a long time to fully tell him my story. Within The Dalles I actually did meet another guy who I really liked, and he was like— And I'd never really dated a guy, so this was like— we had like three dates, and I was like, \"Okay, you know, maybe this is working,\" and I'll never forget the third date he never called me for, and this is really sad, I couldn't figure out why he didn't call me, and I waited a week, and I knew where he lived in Hood River, and I remember driving to his apartment, and he had moved out and left.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=2759.27,2816.3"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/127","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"In other words, he just left. He didn't say goodbye. And here in my mind, I was like \"This is my first guy, maybe I'm not gay.\" I mean I just sat next to his door and just started crying. I'm like, \"Really?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=2817.53,2829.61"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/128","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"What is this?\" It really did happen, and I remember thinking, \"God, I meet two people—\" and it was really, again, sort of pretty painful.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=2831.0,2844.72"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/129","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So, Julie and I did meet, and we started our relationship again.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=2845.16,2851.85"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/130","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Long distance, obviously.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=2854.47,2855.94"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/131","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I was in The Dalles for two years, and then I moved back to Eugene to work at U of O. I was the operations and advertising director of the student newspaper here, and I was in charge of students that I worked with, because I worked there during school. It was a really weird position to be in. Now I'm in my first professional job, in a relationship with Julie but completely closeted. So then you turn in, Julie turns into a guy. I think we called— she— We picked Jim, because any time she sent me flowers, it had to come from a guy.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=2855.95,2903.59"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/132","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"She couldn't call. We didn't have cell phones, so she couldn't call too much because that would— it was really a lot of dancing. And why did I do that? Well, I was working around students, and I could be fired. Totally.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=2905.12,2918.22"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/133","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"You say, \"Oh, you're working at U of O, you could never be fired.\" I could be fired. And it was really hard to change your pronouns all the time, to not tell where you're really going, to have something really happy happen and you can't tell anybody. Then we met somebody that Julie and I went to college with that was a lesbian, and that had a partner, and she was much more out and like— so we kind of glommed on to this pair, and that was the only two people in the whole world that knew Julie and I were together. So we could say happy things to each other, and I'm still friends with them to this day.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=2918.59,2964.98"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/134","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So, you know, I mean, would I say it was rough working there? I mean it was just what you did, what I chose to do. I mean I don't think I chose it, but, you know. So, nobody knew. And it was hard.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=2967.08,2985.49"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/135","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"At that point Julie lived in North Bend, Coos Bay. I'd have to drive there a lot, and I remember one time I was coming back from Coos Bay and I got in a car accident. Broke my arm, but how could I tell people I was driving back from Coos Bay? So I had to make up a whole story of where I was driving, how I got into this accident. To this day probably no one in my family knows where I really was and how I got in the accident.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=2986.1,3013.45"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/136","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Long: So what were the years when you came back for that job that you love?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=3013.71,3017.38"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/137","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Thelen: Nineteen eighty-five, and I left U of O in that position in 1991.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=3017.29,3023.42"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/138","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Long: Okay, so you were here when Lynn Pinckney ran for ASUO president.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=3023.42,3028.85"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/139","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Thelen: Yeah. Yes. Uh-huh [affirmative].","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=3028.87,3030.49"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/140","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Long: Can you tell us a little bit about that?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=3030.51,3031.92"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/141","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Thelen: Well I was a professional, right? I wasn't a student.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=3031.88,3035.19"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/142","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Long: You weren't a student, but you were here on campus at the time.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=3035.21,3038.05"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/143","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Thelen: I was. And so at that time, some hard things happened to me in that position, because I was the director of advertising. And some of the lesbians and gay people in the community perceived I was gay, and they wanted me in my position on the paper to do certain things or not do certain things. Put ads in, or for instance, Playboy, this was a big one, was on campus recruiting for their college campus issue. Well, Playboy is a legal institution, there is nothing illegal about what they were doing, and many students on campus wanted the chance to meet them. And I'm in charge of advertising.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=3038.07,3084.6"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/144","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So I took the ad. That's my job. And my car, all my car tires got slashed, I had terrible things written on my windshield, and basically \"You're finally a woman in power, and this is what you're doing to women.\" Which I can see. Because I am finally a woman in power, and this is what I did. But I also allowed six women the opportunity to be something they wanted to be, even— it was very complicated.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=3084.97,3117.18"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/145","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So, when Lynn, you know— so I just really kind of had to, I felt, extricate myself from all the gay and lesbian issues. The weird part was where I worked was on the third floor of the Memorial Union, and all the gay and lesbian group was on the third floor of the Memorial Union, and so towards then I was going to a bar in Eugene, Perry's, more, and they would see me there, and it was kind of rough. Because the maturity wasn't really there. The students didn't really understand the consequences that could happen to me. It was— and they were really pissed that I could make a statement, I could be a real help to them, and that I wouldn't make that move. That was—","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=3117.27,3186.31"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/146","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Raiskin: What did they want you to do?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=3186.32,3187.47"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/147","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Thelen: I think they wanted me to come and speak to them about being an out woman, and because they respected my position and who I was, and the way I acted. I wasn't giving them the time of day, so it was like— and again, in those early years, it was really important for that community to be really together and strong. And people that weren't with them, it just, it felt like they were feeling like they're doing all the fighting and I'm getting all the glory for that.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=3187.49,3232.29"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/148","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And maybe that's the case.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=3232.76,3233.56"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/149","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Raiskin: The sad thing is there were quite a number of closeted gay and lesbian professional people on campus, like you, at the same time, and you probably didn't know each other.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=3233.58,3242.96"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/150","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Thelen: No, we did not know each other. I was here when the first out Out List came that identified faculty and staff. I'd say the main thing that happened in this era for me was I went to a conference, Atlanta, and I met— when you go to a conference, and it was all advertising people, and I met this guy I really liked. He was married, but really fun, blah, blah, blah. So, at one point he says to me, \"You know, my wife and I have an open marriage, and I'd like to sleep with you,\" and I was like— I went up to my room and I went, \"Oh my gosh. I really like him. I feel trusted with him. This could be my—\" because I'm still hanging on to I'm not going to pick apples if I haven't had oranges. I mean literally I'm still thinking that because I hadn't gone to therapy yet, and I didn't want to pick being a lesbian if I was just damaged. I didn't think that was so— even though all this time with Julie. Crazy. So I did. I slept with Bill. Totally on a— what's that word? Sociological like, \"How am I feeling now?\" Absolutely no emotional— like a research project.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=3242.96,3325.19"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/151","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Totally. Thank God I'd watched movies on what you're supposed to do or whatever. And I remember after going in the bathroom and look in the mirror I go, \"Yeah, I think that's it. I don't think I—\" And I'm, \"Poor Bill,\" you know? Should I go back and tell him, and I go, \"No, I'm not going to tell him.\" That was really a big point for me. I'm, \"Yeah, this is not for me.\" I mean I didn't hate it. I wasn't disgusted by it. But compared, that I had the comparison. So then I was kind of in a big more quandary, because now I'm like— you know. I had held myself up to this apples/oranges, and now I had done it, and so now was a— It was a big turning point for me, because I didn't— Now I had to just really figure out what that meant. I don't think Bill ever knew that, but that was funny.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=3325.35,3385.16"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/152","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So that probably happened in like 1987, but Dorothy— I mean, Julie and I were still together. And we're now living together. But it's totally unhealthy. She would go on dates and literally kiss the guy goodnight, and our bedroom was above the door, and I would hear her. I mean it was just crazy making. We would go to Portland to go to Hobo's or to go to some gay bars in Portland. We didn't go much to Perry's. But, then in like 1991, I finally just told Julie, I said, \"I just can't do this any more.\" I said, \"It's just too painful.\" I said, \"I cannot totally 100 percent commit to you and say I'm going to be a lesbian,\" and she goes, \"I can't commit to you,\" and so we very slowly— I mean at first it was like no, we're not going to do it, and then it was like we kept coming back together, and then she— and then I just said, \"It's too—\" It was the most painful thing ever.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=3385.49,3465.5"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/153","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Because it didn't have anything to do with us not being in love. I mean my current wife knows this. I mean she was really the love of my life, and we didn't break up because of not being in love. We broke up because we couldn't say— and literally within three months, each of us was with another woman. Which really even pissed me off more, right? Because it's like, why did we do this?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=3465.56,3494.17"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/154","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"But you couldn't go back after that.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=3494.56,3497.99"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/155","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Raiskin: And with your new partners, were you out in ways that you—","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=3498.01,3504.33"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/156","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Thelen: No. So now, what does “out” mean? Out means, to me at this point, would be going to a bar with a partner, and even Perry's, and dancing, or stop using different pronouns and say I'm out. So no, I was not— I did not— so when— this is just a sidebar so people can laugh. So here I am at this apex in my life, right? Met the love of my love, we split, she's with another woman, I'm by myself, so I said you know, \"I have to go do something,\" so I go on a trip to the San Juan Islands, bicycle trip through Parks and Rec, by myself. And before I leave I write this letter to God, basically, saying, \"I am at the end. I have got to figure out what to do. I need a sign, I need something. I have to figure out how to move forward in my life.\" I haven't told my family anything. And it was just really— it was long.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=3504.35,3577.9"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/157","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So I'm on the ferry going over to the San Juan Islands, and I literally stand there and rip it up and say a prayer and literally throw it in the water. It makes me tear up today because I'm— I mean I really just— It's just so hard, I just didn't want my life to be so hard. So I go on this trip. I didn't know anybody. There were nine people.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=3579.72,3604.15"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/158","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And I met friends. I make friends pretty easily. And I met three different friends, and I was really friends with this one woman. She was a little older than me, but I didn't feel— she was just gotten— she was just gotten done with a divorce, so she was there post- divorce.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=3604.84,3622.45"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/159","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"When I— we get back. Two, three days after we get back, I get a call from her saying, \"Hey, can we talk? I miss hanging out with you.\" So we talked and she says to me— first of all, she's a hairdresser. She has a poodle. She's been married seventeen years, and she says she's fallen in love with me. That she doesn't know what this is like, she's never fallen in love with a woman before, she doesn't even know if I'm gay. And I'm like, \"God, really? A hairdresser? You had to just send me a hairdresser with a poodle?\" Because I had just did this thing with God saying, \"Okay, whatever you give me, if it's Stanley, if it's something, I'm going to do.\" And there it was, and I was just like, \"Oh my God.\" She didn't know I was gay, so it was the sign of all signs. From that moment on I decided I wasn't going to hide anymore because I had made this covenant, and it was a very sweet relationship, and it was very— It was just funny.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=3623.3,3697.73"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/160","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And here's me, teaching a woman who's never been with a woman before. Like I'm the lesbian. And it was just— It was so unperfect that it was perfect. It just felt like this is perfect.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=3699.33,3714.64"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/161","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Raiskin: How long were you with her?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=3716.05,3719.71"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/162","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Thelen: About nine months, and then she left me for another woman. At that point, I did start going to Perry's with her. The gay bar scene in Eugene was a lot of drinking at that point. A lot of cocaine. Lot of drugs. And the bar in Eugene— there were two I think. The other one had stopped. It was a scary bar to go down to, I'm sure you've heard. It only had one entrance and one exit, and lots of times there would be people coming down saying, \"Hey, nobody can leave for a while, there's some people upstairs that are following people to cars.\" We always parked blocks, and blocks, and blocks away and walked in circuitous routes to get there. And then we always asked— there was like bartender guys that we'd go up to the top of the stairs and look around to see if it was okay to leave. I mean that really happened.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=3721.07,3792.3"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/163","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"None of— nobody that I knew got hurt, but it happened.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=3794.39,3798.67"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/164","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Unfortunately, it was mostly the men and anybody that was a cross dresser, usually. But I was just more scared of a fire. Because it was crazy. So much smoking, oh my God. Literally I would have to— because I don't smoke, so you'd have to put your clothes in two rooms in your house away, and it was horrible. It was safe. It felt safe. It felt fun. I liked it. I didn't feel bad knowing people, and it was— it felt better. I still didn't come out to my parents because now how can I come out with a— she was probably seventeen years older than me. Had a kid. I just couldn't do it yet. So that's that era.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=3800.15,3865.36"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/165","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Raiskin: And the whole time you were working at U of O?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=3865.37,3868.51"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/166","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Thelen: I am at that point. And then I move in 1991 from U of O to what was What's Happening, a weekly newspaper. They hired me to start an advertising program there and kind of change their name and make it more profitable. So I left U of O to go there. Hired my own staff, I ended up hiring Sally. It was there that— so that year is probably 19— okay, I may have gotten my dates wrong there. It was probably like 19— probably started going to therapy in 1987 or '88, and I ended up going to a lesbian therapist. And it was really tough for me, and I told her flat out at the beginning, I said, \"I'm not coming here just about being a lesbian. I mean it's part of my story, but I'm finding it hard to be at work because I've realized I don't ever ask people how to do things. I'm always just self- sufficient, and it comes across really bossy and pompous and all these descriptions that don't even really match me.” But I had that in my background.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=3869.31,3965.65"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/167","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So that's really a lot of the things we've worked on. Turns out this particular lesbian therapist was one of the only lesbian therapists, so whenever I would go in the waiting room there's tons of people I knew, and it was like, \"What?\" You know [laughs]. That was kind of weird. So, let's see— within that period of time, this is a pretty little epic story. I think Coming Out Day, or National Coming Out Day had kind of started. I don't know when, but sometime around then. So, one day randomly, I get a call from my brother, and he says— my brother got married right after he graduated from college when he was eighteen to a woman that he dated when he was fifteen, and I was thirteen, so we've been close. So this whole time, totally knew her—","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=3965.98,4030.56"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/168","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Raiskin: He got married after high school or—","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=4030.58,4031.82"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/169","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Thelen: College. And I've known—","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=4031.84,4033.64"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/170","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Long: He was eighteen when he graduated from—","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=4033.66,4034.58"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/171","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Thelen: Oh, I'm sorry. However old you are. Twenty.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=4034.6,4037.77"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/172","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Raiskin: Twenty-one.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=4037.79,4038.15"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/173","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Thelen: And I'd known his wife since she— fifteen, they started dating. So I was only thirteen. So we were like friends forever. And my brother calls me, randomly, and says, \"I have to tell you Diane and I are getting a divorce.\" And I'm like, \"What?\" I mean I haven't seen them fight, I haven't seen him— It was just like out of the blue. And he says to me— they had a nanny named Kathy. \"I caught her in bed with Kathy. She tells me she's a lesbian.\" Now they had a southern wedding. I wore a hoop skirt. She's from Tennessee. Total conservative. And I am not out to anybody. And I am like, \"What?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=4038.17,4083.45"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/174","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Are you kidding?\" And he is pissed. He's like, \"God damn lesbian, I can't even believe,\" and just totally pissed off. And I'm pissed off.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=4084.27,4093.0"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/175","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I'm like, \"What, Diane? What are you doing?\" I couldn't believe it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=4093.06,4098.42"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/176","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So I meet Mike, and he's like, \"Yeah,\" and he just starts going off. So then I meet my mom, and she starts going off on Diane, and being gay, and— And then I go home, and I'm like, \"Oh my God,\" you know, here I'm gay, they don't know I'm gay, and everybody's trash-talking being gay, and it just felt like I was in this really weird space because I'm not pro-Diane, but I didn't want them to think I would be if they found out I was gay. It was just like, \"God dang, you know, what am I going to do?\" And I felt like if I didn't tell them, then I'm living this weird lie, and letting them feel like I manipulated them when they would find out. It was really fucked.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=4100.26,4147.92"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/177","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So I go back to my therapist and I told her this, and she just couldn't even believe it. She's like, \"What?\" So it turns out I made an appointment to talk to my brother, Diane, and my mom all on the same day. Because I didn't want hearsay going along. And my first one was with my brother at a local restaurant called Ambrosia, it's an Italian place. I'm sitting in the lobby waiting for him, and it turns out it's National Coming Out Day. You guys, I swear to God.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=4148.05,4184.78"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/178","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I didn't want to do it then. Because I didn't— it wasn't about me.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=4185.14,4194.22"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/179","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And I just laughed at God again, I'm like, \"Really?\" The one time I'm coming out, and I don't even really coming out because I'm coming out, it has to be on this day?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=4196.2,4206.63"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/180","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"But I couldn't cancel because I just was— it's just something hysterical, and I swear to God that's the truth. And the only good thing is my brother is so oblique he didn't even know. I mean I almost told him, \"I'm not coming here because it's National Coming Out—\" But he wouldn't even have known in the first— I only knew because I saw it in the newspaper like on What's Happening.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=4209.76,4231.21"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/181","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"National Coming Out Day. So I told him, and I just said, \"This really is not about me, it's about me telling you. I mean it is about me, but I just don't want you to feel like I'm going to be Diane's best friend, or I'm siding with Diane, or whatever.\" So, it was kind of an anticlimactic coming out, because it really wasn't so much about me. But he was— he really— he maybe said, \"I've always known,\" or \"Thank you for telling me,\" or it wasn't a big deal, per se. My main thing— and I told him, \"Now I'm going to go tell mom, and then I'm going to go tell Diane.” Because I didn't want Diane to all of a sudden think I'm this bastion of lesbianism that she can turn to, because I'm pissed at her, you know, as a person. I don't really care the other part.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=4232.17,4287.9"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/182","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So then I go tell my mom, and she just— there was a book. I think you guys maybe have heard of it. It was the only book back then that people were using to give to people. It was called Now That You Know. It was a black book. I bought three copies. I gave one to my mom, one to my dad, and one to my brother. And I can see it, it's black and white, it said Now That You Know. And it was the only thing I could find to give to somebody, and it was meant for that reason.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=4288.81,4323.06"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/183","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Raiskin: Do you remember where you bought it?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=4323.08,4324.31"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/184","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Thelen: I bought it at Mother Kali’s. Yep. And I liked it, what it said, because it said, \"You didn't do anything wrong, there isn't anything wrong.\" And my mom went down the road of the abuse, and I couldn't get her off that, and so I just didn't. She was very, very upset at what she did, all the things she could have done, and how hard my life's going to be, and I'm like, \"Well, you don't know how hard it's been,\" kind of— I didn't tell her that. So it was very emotional for my mom. And me I guess, probably. And then I went to see Diane, and Diane by now, I didn't even know, but now Diane is like full-on lesbian. She has all these lesbian potlucks and friends, she is like lesbian, lesbian, lesbian. Way more than me. And I'm like, \"Well, whatever.\" And she goes, \"Oh, I've always known you're gay.\" And I go, \"Okay, great. Well.\" She is the mom of my two nephews, and she always has been.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=4324.33,4403.15"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/185","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Kathy and her raised them for nine years. So then they broke up, so my nephews then had two, three moms, because my brother remarried. And with lesbian couples and they break up— it turned out at the end my nephew has now eight moms. And you should have seen that wedding. It was not pretty. You don't— Yeah, so. So that happened, and that's really how I came out. I had to talk to my dad over the phone, because he didn't live here. But I wanted to do it all at once, because I just thought that was— but that was an intense day. And I really, really didn't like it because it wasn't me starting the conversation. And at that point, I told them who I had relationships with so they could have seen it, they knew who those people were. But at that point, I wasn't with anybody.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=4404.35,4467.25"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/186","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Long: And remind us what year was that?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=4468.43,4471.35"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/187","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Thelen: That was probably 19— Maybe '89 or '90. Before Lynn, and then Lynn was— Lynn was probably the first— But it didn't last very long, but the first woman they might have seen me with. So, now I'm in the Eugene Weekly, and I just decided I wasn't going to change pronouns, but I just didn't talk about them very much. Even though that is like totally the most cool place to be. In 1991, I met Dorothy. And I think this is a very interesting story because this kind of shows what it was like for my type of being a lesbian, right?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=4471.37,4529.12"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/188","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So, I saw Dorothy from afar at a soccer game, and I really liked her.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=4529.64,4535.44"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/189","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"She just had a bright light around her. And I knew not one mutual friend, which was very rare, because I'm sure you've heard the whole second date lesbian is getting a U-Haul kind of thing. I didn't have one— and I used all my connections, and I could not find one mutual connection. But I knew she was gay because I was at this soccer thing, and I knew other people. Obviously, I knew people on the soccer team, but not like any kind of like, \"Hey, I know Martha.\" So it just turned out like two weeks later she was at Perry's. She was in— I talked with her, and she's in sales, and I was in sales.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=4535.5,4584.39"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/190","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"That really was cool because I hadn't really met any professional women in sales, and so we had a business lunch, which was totally a business lunch, and— and I think we had three business lunches.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=4585.46,4600.29"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/191","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And then I'm like I really wanted to ask her on a date. But I have no experience in this. I've never asked anybody out for a date. Women my age weren't taught how to do that at all. I mean you—","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=4600.29,4617.24"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/192","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Raiskin: How old are you now?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=4617.26,4618.44"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/193","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Thelen: I'm probably twenty-five, maybe. Twenty-four. Twenty-six maybe.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=4618.46,4626.11"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/194","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Yeah I know, because we got married in '93, so it must have been like '90, '91. And I could not figure it out. So what I did was I went to Excelsior, which was a really— it's a nice restaurant around here.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=4628.33,4648.73"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/195","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"It's close. It's kind of intimate, but kind of casual. I picked a table that I wanted, F3. It was kind of in a bay window. I made a reservation. I bought a gift certificate for a hundred dollars. I totally ruffled up the gift certificate, and like put coffee on it, and I made it expire in a week. And I called Dorothy, and I said, \"I just found a gift certificate that I won in a sales contest, and it expires in week.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=4648.86,4682.92"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/196","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Would you like to go to dinner with me and use it? I'd hate to have it like be—\" \"Are you sure you like me?\" \"Yeah, we have fun, it'll be fine. I don't want it to expire.\" That was my ruse. It was the only thing I could figure out.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=4683.24,4697.44"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/197","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So it happened. And I got, apparently I got up during salad to go to the bathroom, and Dorothy says, when I was gone, she looks at the table, there's a bottle of wine, there's two salad things, she sees me, and she goes, \"Oh my God, I'm on a date.\" That's how she found out in her mind. And luckily she wasn't like feeling manipulated or anything. She didn't even say it at the time, \"Oh my God, I'm on a date.\" We just kind of finished the dinner. So that was kind of the start to our—","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=4698.53,4739.76"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/198","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Raiskin: But if you were nervous that you were on a date, what was the next move?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=4740.7,4744.58"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/199","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Thelen: Well, okay, so it's kind of a long story, but I'll hurry it up. Within the dinner— I personally hate bugs. I really hate bugs. Really bad.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=4744.58,4757.59"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/200","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And I was living alone at the time. And I had had an infestation of carpenter ants, and before I left for this date, I turned on two of those bug bomb things, like massive, and shut to the door. So when the date was almost over, I looked at her, I go, \"Well now I'm going to go home and probably die,\" and she's like, \"What do you mean?\" And I go, \"I hate bugs, I bought a bug bomb,\" she goes, \"You did not—\" She's a scientist. She's a geology major. She goes, \"You did not do that.\" I go, \"Yeah, I hate bugs.\" And she goes, \"You can't go in that house. Do you know what it's going to smell like?\" I go, \"I've done this before, I'm fine.\" She goes, \"No, it's—\" And she goes— I go, \"Fine, let's go look at it.\" So we went to my house, opened the door, and it was bad smelling.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=4757.86,4797.89"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/201","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And we go in the living room, and there's these dead rows of ants everywhere. Even on my bed is dead rows of like these huge carpenter ants, and I'm like \"Oh my God, I'm so glad they're dead.\" And she's like, \"You cannot stay here.\" I'm like, \"No really, I mean really, I'm fine,\" she goes, \"No, you cannot stay here, you're coming to my house, I'm not going to let you die in this thing.\" And I really liked her, and I'm like, \"No, I don't think—\" So we go to her house, it's really small. I mean she only has one, literally one bed. And she says to me, you know, \"I'm just having you do this because I don't want you to die,\" and I'm like, \"I know,\" but inside I really liked her. So we lay down in this bed, and she immediately falls asleep, and I am like [grimaces]— Because I didn't want to screw it up. Because I really liked her, plus I didn't even really know. So, here my first non-date, I'm sleeping with a person, and the worst part of all is it was upstairs, and on Sunday morning, her friends—who I don't know—come over to wake her up to cook her breakfast, and she's down there, and I have to walk down the stairs. And they're like, \"Who is that?\" So that's why it kind of like became more of a date than not a date, but it really wasn't a date, and so we're like, \"Let's debrief. What just happened here?\" So once in a while for our anniversary or something she'll get me an ant card or take little ants and put them on the thing, so that really happened.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=4798.37,4895.0"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/202","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Raiskin: So you say you got married in 1993?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=4895.01,4897.44"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/203","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Thelen: So in— Yeah. So in 1992, I never in my life ever thought I'd be married. I could never visualize it. Ever. Probably the most reason was I could never visualize like not having my own room. I know that just sounds weird, but you see these marriages where all of a sudden like it's just always just one room, and I just couldn't figure that out. I just couldn't see it. So I never, ever thought I'd get married. Even with Dorothy when we were— I hadn't really thought that far ahead, but Dorothy was traveling, and she had set these mystery clues around the house, and at the end of the clue was, \"Pack a bag and wait at the door at this time.\" And a friend picked me up, took me to the airport. I flew to San Francisco.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=4897.46,4955.64"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/204","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Dorothy was waiting for me. She had set this up. She flew from Boston, and she had arranged— back then there were like two really famously known bed and breakfasts for lesbians in San Francisco. One of them was called The Blue something, and you knew this from that book, or maybe it was Mother Kali’s or in The Lavender Network or something. And she had made us a room there.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=4955.64,4984.06"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/205","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And I thought that was it. And then she had made reservations at the Castro at this dinner place, all on her own, which I thought that was it. And then during the meal at some point, she brought out a ring and said this incredible thing to me, and said, \"Will you marry me?\" And I was like— remember, I never even thought I would ever be married, let alone I always thought I would have to be the one. I never thought anybody else would ask me, so I didn't answer right away because I realized the gravity of this. This is real. Forever real.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=4985.39,5027.88"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/206","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And I thought about it, and finally I said yes. And then Dorothy kind of gave a wink to the bartender, it was a gay and lesbian place, and the whole restaurant erupted in claps, and she had pre bought champagne for everybody in the restaurant, and they all toasted us, and it was incredible.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=5027.99,5049.34"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/207","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Raiskin: So marriage wasn't legal at that time—","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=5049.35,5052.36"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/208","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Thelen: Wasn't legal.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=5052.25,5053.02"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/209","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Raiskin: —so what— How were you imagining this?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=5053.02,5056.38"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/210","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Thelen: We decided we are going to do a real wedding. What that means is I'm not going to do a fake wedding, so my dad was actually a licensed person, he'd done lots of weddings, and we rented Shelton-McMurphey House, which is a historic building in Eugene, and then we rented a restaurant called Café Fandango, which was on West 11th, run by a lesbian. We rented the entire restaurant. We had a limo, we had rice, we had a three tiered cake—","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=5056.47,5095.37"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/211","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Raiskin: What did you wear?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=5096.01,5097.21"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/212","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Thelen: I wore a really pretty flower dress and Dorothy— with beautiful flowers in my hair, and Dorothy wore a blue dress. We had both of our families there. All of our families there. And we had fifty people could fit in the Shelton-McMurphey House, and a 100 could fit in Café Fandango. We kind of had two different groups. And rice when we left, you know, limo. We had people bring instead of presents, champagne or flowers. Dorothy had really won a sales contest for seven days in Hawaii, and literally the next morning, we flew first class to Hawaii. So, when we got married legally, people are like, \"You're not doing anything.\" I'm like, we brought out our wedding album. Like yeah, we did it already. So that was November 9, 1993.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=5097.43,5154.52"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/213","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I'm still wearing the ring. My parents gave me their diamond from the divorce to give to Dorothy, and this diamond is a third generation diamond from her family that was given to me. We don't have matching rings, we didn't want that. And here's sort of a lesbian story. There's a prominent lesbian jeweler in town which probably you've met, and if not, I'll give you the name. And all the lesbians had her rings. And we purposely didn't go there. And to this day, she brings it up, by the way. Because we're one of the oldest married lesbian couples— not oldest. Longest. We've been married now twenty-six years. We just celebrated our twenty-fifth wedding anniversary in San Francisco, by the way.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=5159.64,5212.98"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/214","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"But we didn't want to get her ring because they all look the same, and everybody’s looked the same, and we just wanted— so we had a guy that we know in town make our rings. And that was a thing, though. It's like, \"Let me see your ring. Oh, blah, blah, blah, blah didn't make it.\" \"Yeah, no. They didn't make it.\" So that was a thing.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=5214.85,5234.66"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/215","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Raiskin: Do you remember Measure 9 in 1992?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=5234.68,5238.11"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/216","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Thelen: Oh yeah. No, I remember Measure 8.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=5238.13,5239.96"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/217","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Raiskin: Measure 8. And 9.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=5240.11,5242.61"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/218","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Thelen: Yeah. Terrible. Horrible.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=5242.63,5245.58"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/219","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Long: And so what was it like for you?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=5245.6,5247.25"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/220","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Raiskin: What— like for you?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=5247.48,5247.63"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/221","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Thelen: Well, boy. Well, the first Measure 8, I don't think— I'm not sure when it was. I'm not sure if I was out or not. Probably was, but—","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=5247.65,5259.47"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/222","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Raiskin: I think it '87 or '88.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=5261.19,5261.6"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/223","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Thelen: I must have been then. It was— I can't even describe it. You know, I'm a very privileged white person. Educated person. I've never been poor, I've never been— I'm a strong woman, I've never verbally been discriminated against, and I've— I was just shocked when Measure 8 came out. I was just like— I just was shocked, and I really was shocked. And then— I'm using that word because it was so violent, and it was so accepted in Oregon. And there were so many people that weren't shocked, which is just shocking.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=5261.62,5317.72"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/224","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Because it was just— and to be working and hear this thing, it was the sort of soul-sucking. My own state. And then to have it happen again with Measure 9, and then living in Eugene, Springfield passed a non-discrimination— and Eugene didn't pass it. Eugene, I'm here to tell you, is sort of a fake liberal city, in my opinion. I believe it presents itself as very forward thinking and very liberal, but it's the reason Trump got elected, meaning, the people that are not that way don't talk, but they vote. And they talk amongst themselves. And this is a very conservative town. It always has been. That was my first— You go to U of O, and you have your little crowd, and you forget until you kind of grow up how conservative, and how much old money is in this town. Like people, now I know, people don't know that parks and streets and major things are named after families that are still alive in this town, and are very, very conservative. It was really— and then when they— they kept coming back. It just— it was really hard. And the other thing that was hard is it just sucked up so much energy and so much money donating, and that was before the Human Rights Commission, HRC, I think came out, so you never felt like you had any national support.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=5318.43,5433.71"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/225","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I think I had joined the Equity Foundation by then, which is based out of Portland. Portland had a lot more things you could join to help things, but— it was really bad. It was really hard to see— I mean, like I said, I have a lot of privilege, and there were people that don't have what I have that were very affected. Kids, adopting kids, losing kids. A lot of pain there. It didn't really cause me any pain in person, but it was very emotional. I still have No on 9 stickers and No on 9 buttons.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=5435.63,5479.66"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/226","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Raiskin: And a lot of people came out more publicly at that time.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=5479.86,5483.71"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/227","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Thelen: They did. Because they— it did. But they came out in an angry way, you know? And again, came out in a like, \"We have to come out,\" way. But that's okay, I guess. I forget the name of that guy.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=5483.72,5501.6"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/228","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Raiskin: Lon Mabon.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=5502.12,5502.21"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/229","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Long: Lon Mabon.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=5502.14,5502.43"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/230","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Thelen: Yes. And somebody that I knew worked with his brother or something, and that Lon Mabon— so, it was really hard.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=5502.35,5515.98"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/231","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Long: Did you know Harriet Merrick on campus?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=5518.1,5519.57"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/232","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Thelen: Yeah, Harriet Merrick. Kathy was the person that had the affair with my brother's nanny. Kathy is now married to Harriet. Okay?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=5519.59,5535.51"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/233","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So that's like point five degrees of separation. So I know her now as a family member, as one of the moms. That would be mom number five, I think. But I did know her on campus, and I— back in the early years when I wasn't really out, she scared the bejesus out of me, and a lot of people wanted us to be friends, and I just couldn't make it happen on campus. I didn't feel I was up to her level of passion and anger. Not anger, but up to her level of— she's so politically involved, and always has been, and I've always respected her, and I still do, for that. But I just never felt sort of worthy of that. Because I wasn't as aggressive as she was. So I knew of her, but we weren't really friends when she worked here. I mean, we'd say hi and stuff. That's who Harriet is to me now.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=5535.91,5608.31"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/234","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Raiskin: And you mentioned Soromundi? Were you ever a part of Soromundi?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=5608.33,5610.97"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/235","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Thelen: No.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=5611.69,5612.92"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/236","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Raiskin: This is the lesbian choir. But how do you know Karm?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=5612.93,5615.22"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/237","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Thelen: There was a time right around when I was dating Dorothy, like it was '91 to '93, that actually I was pretty involved in the lesbian community in a fun kind of party way. I used to throw games parties and I used to— it's like it was a complete opposite. But it was a different crowd, and I met Karm and Sheryl back then somehow with one of the things that we did somewhere. I know a lot of the founding people of Soromundi. I've never been a singer, and to be honest, like I said, I really just wanted and have a very— I just have so many— I've always had so many disparate groups of friends. I've never just had one. And so it felt like I went to an audition rehearsal one time, and it just felt too encompassing. Like it would just be too much of my life, and I wasn't ready to make that commitment because I have so many other little groups. It wasn't about not being gay or anything, it was just a too much of a commitment for one thing.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=5617.93,5713.59"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/238","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Raiskin: What's interesting about you and Karm is you're both Oregonians.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=5713.61,5717.31"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/239","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Thelen: Yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=5717.45,5717.5"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/240","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Raiskin: And a lot of people we interview have come from somewhere else, and came for this.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=5717.52,5724.81"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/241","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Thelen: Oh, right, yeah, right.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=5725.01,5726.21"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/242","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Raiskin: And both of you were here.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=5726.23,5727.17"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/243","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Thelen: Right. We kind of fell into it. I know throughout my years of wherever I've been in the early years especially, when I would say I was gay, they'd be like, \"Oh, you are so lucky.\" Through the years, and I'm sure you've heard this, when we're getting into the '90s and the 2000s, there was a big separation for lesbians. They went out and made your own lives. It was really kind of hard to meet new lesbian friends. They already had their girlfriends, going to the bar wasn't a thing. There wasn't really a community center.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=5727.42,5771.66"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/244","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Raiskin: Why do you think that was in those years that it came to be that way?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=5771.67,5775.66"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/245","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Thelen: Well, it's not what Portland is. Portland has museum nights for gay— and they always have. I mean I've always been intrigued by all the ways that lesbians could meet in Portland not around alcohol, or not around— just different ways you could connect.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=5775.68,5802.75"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/246","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Eugene doesn't— they just don't have it, and— that’s the paradox again. Eugene is really a paradox. I mean like right now in 2019, there is no— well, kind of a gay bar. There hasn't been— and maybe we don't need those anymore. Maybe we don't. I don't know. But now it's— being gay is not such a thing. But in the 2000s and late '99, it was very hard to find gay people my age. Why?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=5802.79,5839.36"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/247","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Well, we're in a college town. Eugene's a very transient community.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=5841.03,5846.53"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/248","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"People tend to leave Eugene, and then they tend to come back when they're older. And when you come back and you're older, people don't tend to make new friends. But the stereotype is you talk to anybody in Oregon and they'll say Eugene has so many lesbians and a strong lesbian community, and I have to say, I don't think it's a strong lesbian community from where I sit. We— what would that mean? I don't know. Maybe a community center would have once a month a literal— I'm going to use the lesbian potluck and laugh, but like a lesbian potluck, or a reading group, or something. And I don't see anything.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=5846.97,5891.1"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/249","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Plus, we don't have a newspaper, you know. Maybe you don't need that. There's no money. The people that have the money in this town that are gay and lesbian, I've spent a lot of money on national issues. I mean that's where I invest a lot. And I don't want to be a starter. I'll be a follower. I don't know.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=5891.16,5916.63"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/250","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Long: Maybe it's because of assimilation? You know, there's less of a need for—","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=5916.65,5920.74"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/251","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Thelen: Well another one of my friends said this: My age had to go through so much to get to be lesbian and ready to meet other lesbians, but I don't want to do anything to do it, because I've spent so long getting here, and we're all kind of the same age. And there isn't really a need other than a comradery or something. I go to Pride now in Portland, and like I said, Portland has a much, much different community. I think.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=5921.18,5962.98"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/252","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Raiskin: So you're still on campus, and you see students around.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=5963.73,5967.57"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/253","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Thelen: Yes.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=5967.59,5967.96"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/254","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Raiskin: And they have a really different way than our generation did.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=5967.97,5973.8"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/255","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Thelen: Yes. Yes.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=5973.8,5974.48"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/256","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Raiskin: What are your thoughts about that?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=5974.45,5975.85"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/257","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Thelen: Well, you know, that's an excellent question, and I do have a story that I've been telling about this. It was very emotional for me. So here it is. I do major events for the student recruitment here at U of O, and I created a major sponsorship with Portland Pride for U of O. We're the only university in this state that has taken such a prominent position in Pride in Portland. We have a huge booth, and we are there to recruit college students. So, to do that, I like to bring in the LGBTQIA, I don't know if you need to say that anymore, group on campus to be there so they can talk to these students, too.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=5975.87,6030.56"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/258","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Now I've worked here twenty-seven years. For twenty-five of those years I didn't work with students. I've worked for the Office of the President. So, I didn't even know when college was. I didn't know when school was, when it wasn't. Just completely off the grid. But now I've moved into Orientation, which is— prime focus is students, and U of O is ranked number nine right now in the nation for the LBG— LG— LGBTQ community for a lot of reasons that I won't go into, but a lot of them have to do with pronouns and residence halls and all these things.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=6031.08,6069.02"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/259","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Well, I was at a meeting a year and a half ago where someone said, \"Let's start with our pronouns.\" I had no idea what that meant. A year and a half ago. No one ever asked me that. In the division we're in now, you have to start every meeting with your name and your pronouns. And you have to put on your signature your pronouns. Well at that meeting, I had no idea, so I'm like, \"Why don't we go this way,\" you know, to try to figure it out by the time— And then I just said, \"Hey, I have to admit it.\" And so they told me what it meant. And I did a bunch of research.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=6069.03,6105.2"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/260","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So now, fast forward to Pride of this year. I'd been doing a lot of practicing, but there's a lot of things that change for me. I have to figure out how to make hotel rooms differently now. I can't just assume hotel rooms. I can't assume names. I have to make— and in this last thing I had three people that had pronouns, they, them, theirs, and I had one like, “ib-“ something, something. And I had twenty-five people. And I also have had to learn in a year and a half to not say \"You guys.\" And I got in a big tiff with my supervisor about this, because they, at my division, you're supposed to say \"You all.\" And I won't say that. Because it's not in my vernacular. I've never said it, I'm not from the South, it doesn't feel right. So I say everybody, everyone, or whatever.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=6105.26,6169.0"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/261","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"But I have to admit, I say, \"You guys\" because I'm fifty-eight years old, and I've been saying it for fifty-five years. So here's the— you asked me about students today. So, I had a really, really hard experience at Pride. And I found it— when I started with my staff meeting, I opened up, and I just said, \"Here's the deal. I am trying really hard to understand pronouns and understand to remember, and to understand the idea, and this is who I am, and I might say ‘you guys.’\" I really felt like I opened up. And I also pre— had to do a lot of reconciliation with what the hell does this mean, and why are they doing it? But I tried to let all that go because it doesn't matter, I'm in a job, and this is the job.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=6169.67,6225.42"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/262","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I made some mistakes, and the students from that community gave me— and this is— I am going to cry, because zero slack. They criticized me, they said, \"I am not a guy, I will not respond to you, you've done this four times.\" Just zero slack and no compassion at all. And at one point I said something and called— her name— See— “Their” name, and I used a she pronoun, and she just got right in my face and just yelled at me in front of everybody, and then I put my hand on her, and I— On them, and I said, \"I'm so sorry.\" \"I did not give you permission to touch me! I am not touch- friendly!\" And then I'm like, \"Oh my God, now I have to ask people to touch people?\" I mean it just felt like it just goes on, and on. And it was really rough. And I felt like, \"Jesus. You don't know me. You don't know what it's taken.\" And then I felt like this elder, like you know— even to get to Pride, I had to do this. And there was no respect or honor or compassion or leeway. And I'm just like, \"You are so— you're in a university, you're so coddled.\" It was really hard. That's been really hard.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=6227.42,6327.92"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/263","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Raiskin: Remember when you were talking about the constraints on how— This is what it was like to be a lesbian, this is what it took to be a lesbian. And so they're doing that to each other, not just you—","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=6327.94,6339.4"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/264","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Thelen: In a way.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=6339.42,6339.56"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/265","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Raiskin: —and it's just like a similar trapping.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=6339.58,6342.8"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/266","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Thelen: Then the last thing I'll say that I had a huge emotion— and I laughed about it, but when I went to Pride, they have an actual key now to fifty-five-types of flags. Fifty-five. But I'm sitting there going— I look at somebody, I go, \"What is it with the flags?\" I mean I haven't even seen a rainbow flag. \"There's no rainbow flags now.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=6342.82,6363.84"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/267","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"That's bad.\" I'm like, \"What do you mean, bad?\" He goes, \"You have to have rainbow with brown in it now, because rainbow—\" and I'm like, \"Brown? Okay, but what about that?\" \"Oh, that's a trisexual flag.\" \"Trisexual? What about that?\" \"That's a bisexual, that's a— There's the key.\" And I'm like, in my mind I'm like, \"What the hell?\" I mean I fought for this fricking rainbow flag, and then you guys go change flags. Why does everybody need their own flag? I just said that, and they're looking at me like, \"Whoa, what is wrong with you?\" And I had a talk with him, I said, \"Talk to me.\" And I realized at the end, really does it matter to me? No. It doesn't matter to me. But it really seemed to matter there for a minute, like, \"You can't just come in here and wake up and say you're a bisexual and make your own damn flag.\" It really, really ticked me off. And then I really sat down with myself, like \"Why is this ticking me off? Why do I really care?\" And it was like it's just this— like in our department, we now have dry erase pronoun name tags. I'm like, \"What, you wake up one morning and you can be a he/him, and then you're she/her the next morning? It's just dry erase?\" \"Yes, gender is fluid.\" And I'm like, \"Oh, help me now.\" And why does that affect me? That shouldn't affect me. I mean I don't really care.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=6363.84,6452.26"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/268","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"But I just went up against my own wall. And I laughed. I'm still laughing because it still— the dry erase name tag is just— it says, \"My pronouns are dry erase\" [laughs]. I'm like, “Oh, man. I am in big trouble.” But I mean do you laugh, do you— it's not funny. If I laughed at that where I work, no good. So I'm confronted. I'm not sure why. I work in a place that nobody is doing it in a mean spirited way. It's fluid. Okay [laughs].","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=6452.26,6488.44"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/269","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Raiskin: We end a lot of these with asking from your point of wisdom, having fought for what you fought for, and being who you are, and your life history, and the wisdom that you have accrued, do you have any advice that you would give to a younger person who might be watching this interview at some point?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=6489.21,6510.19"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/270","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Thelen: Yes. I would say now that I am this age, that I would look at— if you are gender— looking at yourself as a different gender than male or female, and you're on this— I would actually go back and look at the history of gender. Sort of like a Black person would do and say, \"Let's look at the history of Black people in America, and Black people in Oregon. What does it take to be where I am now?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=6512.04,6549.11"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/271","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"What did people do to have the chance for me to be Black right now?\" And I think that would be a very cool thing to do because I think it would give them a big perspective of how much has happened and how cool it is that they can have a dry erase name tag, but also how that fits in this cycle, and where it goes, and where it came from. So, I would remind folks that although what's happening now is very different than anything that's happened, it is on the same historical platform, which is why this is kind of interesting. So that's what I would say.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=6549.11,6593.31"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/272","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Raiskin: I want to thank you very much—","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=6593.33,6595.56"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/273","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Long: Thank you very much.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=6595.58,6595.76"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/274","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Raiskin: —for a wonderful interview.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=6595.78,6597.24"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/275","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Thelen: You're welcome.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=6597.26,6598.5"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/276","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"[END OF INTERVIEW]","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613#t=6598.52,6598.62"}]},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["English [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56413/file/130613/transcript/92630/annotation/277","type":"Annotation","motivation":"subtitling","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/file_transcripts/associated_files/000/092/630/original/864_Coll520_do072_aligned.vtt?1776852386","format":"text/vtt","language":"en"},"target":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/file_transcripts/associated_files/000/092/630/original/864_Coll520_do072_aligned.vtt?1776852386"}]}]}]}