{"@context":"http://iiif.io/api/presentation/3/context.json","id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/iiif/ks6j09xz5n/manifest","type":"Manifest","label":{"en":["Interview with Richard Leacock [1/4-in. magnetic audiotape], August 25, 1964"]},"logo":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/029/original/uo-logo-hires.png?1580744881","metadata":[{"label":{"en":["Description"]},"value":{"en":["1 sound tape reel : ips; 3 in. 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Originally in Victorian cinema.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307#t=10.47,21.69"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307/transcript/76679/annotation/3","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e Everything had proceed according to the logic. If something happens, somebody. Yeah, I think anybody screams or somebody breaks down and cries too hard. At a certain point the audience won't believe it. So it's Jackson comes up. But in this kind of cinema, to the measure, to the extent that we tend to respect the authenticity of an event, guarantees the guaranteeing that what is happening is real. Suddenly a makes. Suddenly makes an event which would not be believable.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307#t=22.59,58.41"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307/transcript/76679/annotation/4","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eUnidentified:\u003c/strong\u003e Livable? Overwhelmingly so. It's.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307#t=59.07,63.41"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307/transcript/76679/annotation/5","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e And surprisingly. Yes. You mentioned in your interview in kind of a 60 to 80s, right? Yeah. Well, if that had happened in a movie, literally nobody would have believed it. They would say, what lousy writing, screenwriting and say, I don't know. But here we have a we have another program. And I was wondering in what sense.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307#t=64.62,84.59"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307/transcript/76679/annotation/6","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e This goes back absolutely fundamental as far as I'm concerned, to to what we're doing in the theater, have nothing.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307#t=85.49,91.34"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307/transcript/76679/annotation/7","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eUnidentified:\u003c/strong\u003e Whatever to do with their dramas with. No, no, because. It's the.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307#t=92.0,100.94"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307/transcript/76679/annotation/8","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Fact.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307#t=101.09,101.09"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307/transcript/76679/annotation/9","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e And that's what it meant, really, by the time objective.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307#t=102.44,104.42"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307/transcript/76679/annotation/10","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 3:\u003c/strong\u003e You, you know, you are simply dump on the fact that that is act right. And you can say, well, it's uninteresting, but you're not relevant. You know you've done it. If you throw it in a play, your reaction would be well up and it allows you right? Or he doesn't justify it, or he doesn't think that that the other thing or the captain allow the academic involvement. I'm only thing. But all these remarks, I love them about them and then no doubt you've got your faith. But then. Oh back back, back. And what happens is they have to realize Obama. And I'm like, oh, let me talk about this. Well, let me handle that. What I'm saying is that like button. Exactly. No problem at all about it. But look at number one.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307#t=105.92,157.32"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307/transcript/76679/annotation/11","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eUnidentified:\u003c/strong\u003e I like the problem. That's not my problem. I'm walking around working on something like. One hour. Oh.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307#t=158.73,168.85"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307/transcript/76679/annotation/12","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 3:\u003c/strong\u003e No no no no. Oh, okay.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307#t=176.36,183.23"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307/transcript/76679/annotation/13","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eUnidentified:\u003c/strong\u003e All. Right. So I got time to come to work. That's probably close.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307#t=186.47,198.83"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307/transcript/76679/annotation/14","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e All right. Testing. One. Two. Three. Testing one.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307#t=203.82,206.84"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307/transcript/76679/annotation/15","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eUnidentified:\u003c/strong\u003e Two. Three. Four.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307#t=207.17,207.89"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307/transcript/76679/annotation/16","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, we got some things moving.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307#t=213.47,214.67"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307/transcript/76679/annotation/17","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eUnidentified:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah, I don't know. Yeah. I need a moment.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307#t=216.13,219.2"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307/transcript/76679/annotation/18","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e I do. I'm focused on the people who got this Harlem crew going. Oh, yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307#t=221.42,227.12"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307/transcript/76679/annotation/19","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eUnidentified:\u003c/strong\u003e I got a friend from. Under the planning on the.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307#t=227.51,233.54"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307/transcript/76679/annotation/20","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Election in Massachusetts. It's a lovely contrast between Chuck Peabody, whose family is, well.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307#t=234.44,243.52"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307/transcript/76679/annotation/21","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eUnidentified:\u003c/strong\u003e That is them trying to become.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307#t=244.15,246.06"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307/transcript/76679/annotation/22","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e The lady who's the classic officer. The first generation. Immigrant rags to.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307#t=251.05,262.63"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307/transcript/76679/annotation/23","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eUnidentified:\u003c/strong\u003e Fame or for the fine. You know, I think the marvelous contrast, you know, building on the weak.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307#t=263.38,270.88"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307/transcript/76679/annotation/24","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e The also people that the novel. I mean, there were marvelous family models like do you want got arrested in Mississippi?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307#t=272.53,278.95"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307/transcript/76679/annotation/25","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eUnidentified:\u003c/strong\u003e Oh, yeah. That's right. The the mother of the.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307#t=281.56,285.34"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307/transcript/76679/annotation/26","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah, yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307#t=285.67,286.0"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307/transcript/76679/annotation/27","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eUnidentified:\u003c/strong\u003e So what what what appeals to you in a subsequent makes us really happy.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307#t=288.17,294.6"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307/transcript/76679/annotation/28","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, in this I just expected. But the problem is all about. What I'd really like to do is what we were unable to do in primary and primary. We got below the ordinary cliche was a little, but especially with.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307#t=296.07,311.04"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307/transcript/76679/annotation/29","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eUnidentified:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah, Hubert Humphrey. Yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307#t=313.5,315.27"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307/transcript/76679/annotation/30","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e But we were never able to do what I dream of doing, which what was really going on out with John laying the the president calendars.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307#t=316.47,326.4"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307/transcript/76679/annotation/31","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eUnidentified:\u003c/strong\u003e So, you know, brain Guy, the real professional politician.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307#t=327.69,332.61"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307/transcript/76679/annotation/32","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e And the statisticians and all the boxes of the government. Yeah, not Calabi-Yau.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307#t=334.08,339.87"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307/transcript/76679/annotation/33","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eUnidentified:\u003c/strong\u003e Real wrote. No, no, I was one with the calendar. It was brilliant, but.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307#t=340.92,345.24"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307/transcript/76679/annotation/34","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e I was bored or something like that. Yeah, I forgot, but these other advisors Advisers who were all of time having meetings, which was where, you know, just really discussing what the hell is going on, how you really want to work. This is what I would like to get on. What kept you from getting into employment? I don't know, Marilyn. Well, John Bolton is a fabulous character. No one there. 0000. You see, what you're doing is much too important. And mistakes with certain members. But they couldn't jeopardize any conceivable way. There's no purpose. Right. A feeling that in a mild thing like this. It's quite possible the guy like people. Then I bloody might very well let us in the world and really see how much was wrong. But I don't know.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307#t=346.2,400.25"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307/transcript/76679/annotation/35","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e So what appeals to you, then, is the his or the inside scoop.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307#t=402.83,406.0"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307/transcript/76679/annotation/36","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eUnidentified:\u003c/strong\u003e On our election goes and not the not the inherent drama of the election. So no, I don't really give a hoot about the I know, you know. So there's some. But.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307#t=406.27,417.87"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307/transcript/76679/annotation/37","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e What I want to say is Howard really know what really happened. Right. It's it's that. Tell us in the confirm what didn't have anything to do with the babies or anything. Like how anybody felt about babies. That is what how people really are. How they. How the world really.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307#t=420.24,443.94"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307/transcript/76679/annotation/38","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eUnidentified:\u003c/strong\u003e What does really happen. But when you were when you went down to do the when film Saturday, the first one that.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307#t=445.92,452.13"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307/transcript/76679/annotation/39","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e They had no to do it. Yes. I had no idea what we were going to do. No, I didn't think. I couldn't see anything. The babies were all in an incubator, everybody else going about their business. You had no idea that they were going to start exploiting the dispersion. Oh, in a basic sense, Yes. This is I know, an election not trying to win.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307#t=452.4,471.77"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307/transcript/76679/annotation/40","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eUnidentified:\u003c/strong\u003e I mean, the the foreign foreign is good, but you know.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307#t=472.19,475.25"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307/transcript/76679/annotation/41","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Another idea that we just have this afternoon to do a thing on Dave. Now why not? Because he's a fabulous personality as far as I'm concerned. But again, this guy runs Broadway now. He is he has a tremendous sense of theater. And I'd like to know what makes you know, what is there about this man that makes him just one after the other? Pick one of those. I think he must be a very, very interesting guy. I'm not the least bit interested in showing that he's a clown, but this, that and the other thing he is, he's a fantastic guy, no matter the must be. How do you feel this year? What is the fantastic about him? That's. You have to find out. I don't know you. I hope only that I'd have the intelligence to know, to discern the sea from all the other stuff, what it is. But that's what's important about this guy.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307#t=481.58,541.38"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307/transcript/76679/annotation/42","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eUnidentified:\u003c/strong\u003e And once you begin getting a clue, then you. Then you begin finding where to shoot.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307#t=543.81,549.45"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307/transcript/76679/annotation/43","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e To me. Well, I'm drawing. The closest I know is the. That woman writes the New Yorker is marvelous reporter Lillian Ross. Yes. She wasn't trying to crucify you, I don't think. I know you didn't think so again. So I see what you know. What is what what happens. And. I think what we're doing is sort of another extension of that very similar thing. And I think it's important.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307#t=550.02,588.11"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307/transcript/76679/annotation/44","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eUnidentified:\u003c/strong\u003e I don't know if I said this at the time, but. But I've said it before.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307#t=588.8,591.92"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307/transcript/76679/annotation/45","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Is that. Say 100 years ago, the average person, most of them couldn't read or write or.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307#t=595.64,609.65"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307/transcript/76679/annotation/46","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eUnidentified:\u003c/strong\u003e Or did very limited reading.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307#t=612.95,614.03"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307/transcript/76679/annotation/47","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e What they knew about the world was from relatively direct experience. And as the means of communication have increased, especially with the advent of film. And now the numbers thing with television. But I think that we've invented a set of cliches. We have begun to think we know things that actually Either distorted or completely wrong, or or have the the vital sap taken out from that. What I mean is this I've seen I have a deep feeling that I know what happened on a local. Now, this is absurd because I've never been on a log. And my feeling about what happens in a little local actually comes from movies that I've seen, which in turn were very likely made by people who'd never been on the local road either. What we're getting is the formation of sort of self-perpetuating cultural myths, which can get more and more inaccurate.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307#t=615.41,688.51"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307/transcript/76679/annotation/48","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e The perpetuated myths that are being established about our society.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307#t=697.81,701.5"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307/transcript/76679/annotation/49","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e You know, I can think of other examples. I and I was aware of this at the time when war was Pearl Harbor doing a tremendous amount of headlines. War. And I had I was sure I had a clear image. Well, the goofy, admittedly, but I sort of had visions of within a week there would be troops marching down the street, weeping girlfriends. I almost imagined there'd been an operatic time of singing over there. I think that's really the power. Or we march in. This is baloney, you know. No such thing. Nothing that I could tell who was very strange about some of the people, I think. Another thing was the the coming to power of the Nazis, you know, in the Hollywood movie that one day Hitler came to power, the next, that very night, stormtroopers run up the stairs screaming Jews and labor people dragged down Big Mercedes. But it's all baloney. I was in Germany in 1936. I was in Germany 937. I was in the, you know, the slow, creeping, strange thing, terribly hard to put your finger on. So and this relates also to what Christmas said, and I think it was a question who will be the need for a more accurate sharing of experiences? I think that's why I said, I think I said last time, this relates more to me to what education, at least what education should be in my view. I don't mean classrooms and blackboards and things. I don't terribly like that kind of education all of the time, but I'm not very good at but but coming to know our selves, our own society and other people's societies.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307#t=703.15,809.41"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307/transcript/76679/annotation/50","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eUnidentified:\u003c/strong\u003e Which I think can can.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307#t=813.88,815.74"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307/transcript/76679/annotation/51","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, there are other problems. How do you change people's. How is this sort of a national point of view change? You know, I don't think most white Americans have the faintest idea what discrimination of what it's like to be born black. To be condemned to a role in life because of this accident from the Taylor Ball. You know, people think discrimination is being refused admittance to a restaurant. Think that's that's just the that's the end of it. It's far more subtle and profound than that. No, I am the foggiest idea how you in terms of this kind of filming, but I believe it's possible that you can begin to illuminate to white people, folks involved with the Negro and what's involved with them, too. These are tremendously profound and difficult things that I don't think that you can do nearly as well. By lecturing, by writing, you have to see it to believe. But.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307#t=821.19,906.24"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307/transcript/76679/annotation/52","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e But this implies then.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307#t=908.69,909.71"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307/transcript/76679/annotation/53","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eUnidentified:\u003c/strong\u003e Different from what we've generally thought of, that you use this cinema a very de where one goes and experiences at one's filming.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307#t=911.09,918.62"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307/transcript/76679/annotation/54","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e It also implies.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307#t=920.66,921.08"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307/transcript/76679/annotation/55","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eUnidentified:\u003c/strong\u003e A kind of a general preparation background of.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307#t=921.59,925.63"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307/transcript/76679/annotation/56","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e Possibilities, of where things might happen and so forth. Yeah, it you need to enrich your baggage before you arrive to a greater degree.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307#t=926.78,936.65"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307/transcript/76679/annotation/57","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e You, you you got to have a bloody good idea of where these things. I mean, you can guess where certain things are going to, to, to expose themselves to, to become apparent. This is part of the problem of good journalism.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307#t=937.37,952.44"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307/transcript/76679/annotation/58","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e And it's for you. The problem is much more complicated than just going and.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307#t=954.39,959.16"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307/transcript/76679/annotation/59","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eUnidentified:\u003c/strong\u003e Following a Negro through his daily routine of his.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307#t=960.15,964.41"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307/transcript/76679/annotation/60","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e Daily life and seeing what.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307#t=964.56,966.06"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307/transcript/76679/annotation/61","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eUnidentified:\u003c/strong\u003e Kind of discriminatory elements like. Fact you would have, you would have to take a.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307#t=966.24,973.56"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307/transcript/76679/annotation/62","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e More perceptive approach and more.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307#t=974.61,976.2"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307/transcript/76679/annotation/63","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Approaches dealing with. Yeah, I even think that I go a long way in this particular problem, I think. But a lot of the.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307#t=977.16,983.7"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307/transcript/76679/annotation/64","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eUnidentified:\u003c/strong\u003e Filming has to be done by Negroes, can't be done by white people.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307#t=983.79,987.75"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307/transcript/76679/annotation/65","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Because as a white person, when I intrude and. Southern. Especially in the South and the private home. I just know that all the conversation changes. The distortion of the norms and the group you're having.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307#t=988.83,1007.3"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307/transcript/76679/annotation/66","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eUnidentified:\u003c/strong\u003e Going up to Harlem is Negro. Yeah. Yeah. Puerto Rican? Yeah. Puerto Rican. And I just noticed that in the room.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307#t=1007.57,1016.48"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307/transcript/76679/annotation/67","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e And all of a sudden, you're just, you know.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307#t=1016.9,1018.25"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307/transcript/76679/annotation/68","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eUnidentified:\u003c/strong\u003e From all the white talk and all the humor and all the.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307#t=1019.12,1023.35"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307/transcript/76679/annotation/69","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Marvelous things just boom like that. Yeah. But that's what I meant when I think it was last time I was saying that that this kind of film shouldn't be judged. Yeah. What it can do. Where it can go. I mean, I didn't mean that people shouldn't say they, you know, judge a particular film because they should. But the this genre of filming is so on file at the moment and was I think that we're all suffering under so many preconceptions as to form, style, methods, work and everything else. Since we were all our thinking basically this come from traditional journalism. The best part? Traditional film. But. I have a feeling the for instance, the, the, the, the crew tends to see these films in the form of the classical theatrical. I think that this is going to be.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307#t=1025.48,1095.7"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307/transcript/76679/annotation/70","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eUnidentified:\u003c/strong\u003e Detrimental in the long. Limited?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307#t=1097.71,1100.74"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307/transcript/76679/annotation/71","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Yes. I think the saddling themselves of the form isn't necessarily suitable.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307#t=1101.58,1107.13"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307/transcript/76679/annotation/72","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eUnidentified:\u003c/strong\u003e Now, for instance, with regard to this, how and David both stated their desire.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307#t=1108.48,1113.22"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307/transcript/76679/annotation/73","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e To keep away from the imposed crisis.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307#t=1114.3,1116.32"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307/transcript/76679/annotation/74","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eUnidentified:\u003c/strong\u003e Making type of situation and rather dig into character or into personality and but.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307#t=1116.92,1123.52"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307/transcript/76679/annotation/75","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e Finally, what they want to do in the in projecting into the future, their own aims would be to come out with a story film. A film in which the story grew out of a story, grew out of a man's life, out of the reality.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307#t=1124.06,1137.38"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307/transcript/76679/annotation/76","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eUnidentified:\u003c/strong\u003e That they might have find around them. For instance, I'll mention it is interesting taking a pregnant woman who's thinking of a boy following her through finding out what happened, make it this kind of story, but a story which would have would be much better articulated than what the showman has with some of the other something. It would have a beginning, a middle, a man, which will have many of the emotional involvement qualities of of good fiction.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307#t=1137.95,1166.21"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307/transcript/76679/annotation/77","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e And I tend to sense that you wouldn't go in that direction at all.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307#t=1167.17,1171.58"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307/transcript/76679/annotation/78","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eUnidentified:\u003c/strong\u003e If you're seeking something out.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307#t=1176.56,1177.63"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307/transcript/76679/annotation/79","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e No. Well, I'm just not, you know, that might. You know, that might happen. I think the people keep thinking of this because they're used to theatrical forms. You know, and I don't know, I'm saying really that I don't know where it's going to go. But I, I sort of have a hunch that that may be not what's going to happen. I know that everybody keeps thinking that this is going to happen and this is what they're after.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307#t=1178.43,1212.1"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307/transcript/76679/annotation/80","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eUnidentified:\u003c/strong\u003e But I have a powerful hunch that that's the that's probably the thinking this for the wrong reason.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307#t=1213.48,1220.02"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307/transcript/76679/annotation/81","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e What would be your attitude toward those films, which tend to use these techniques that the appearance of authenticity.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307#t=1220.56,1227.46"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307/transcript/76679/annotation/82","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Toward fictional ends. This is frightening.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307#t=1229.89,1232.55"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307/transcript/76679/annotation/83","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eUnidentified:\u003c/strong\u003e That, say, the cruel world attempts this to a certain degree.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307#t=1233.69,1236.6"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307/transcript/76679/annotation/84","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Good artists from London, England. Yeah, I think we're wish. Yeah. You know, the dogs. Cats would never know. What would you see? To me. You know, if you go back. Way back. There's a very strange thing about the history. About. The Greeks. Who? You know, as far as I'm concerned. Of the earlier there's.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307#t=1238.13,1265.76"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307/transcript/76679/annotation/85","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eUnidentified:\u003c/strong\u003e I mean, you know, I don't know what the Chinese did before that. Before that the whole was out. Weeks earlier. Not for me.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307#t=1266.06,1271.1"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307/transcript/76679/annotation/86","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e But here was a very burly fellow from the theater. Now, the funny thing about from is that they not only did not try and make things look real, they went lean over backwards in the opposite direction. They wanted an absolutely explicit that this man is not Korean. He is an actor performing the part of Creole and not to play and to make his. His name may be limp or A-plus. And you all know him. He lives in their village, and you know we'll have drinks together afterwards. That lump of cloth, the actor. Now we're going to put a mask on him, and he's going to speak in a very strange kind of artificial language and verse, which you know perfectly well. Creole never went around talking in books, and we don't want any confusion about that. So we're going to make it absolutely formal, and we are going to now perform a play which has a great deal to do with reality, but not on the silly, superficial level. Now it's market. And this is still true. Pretty much in Shakespeare's time. Obviously it was last night, but. But still very, very formal. You suddenly stopped the play. And the lovely things the Greek did, the stop, the pull together on the author. The author himself came out and defended himself. Now the obvious, right. I came right out and discussed the play and what we're talking about, and defended himself and attacked all we all playwrights. It was the whole bunch of slob stuff. And he's incredibly that hasn't changed. Oh, I'm involved now. And the same because the the Shakespearean soliloquy was was directed the audience. It wasn't, you know, stream of consciousness development was straight out. No, this was no stop the play. And this is what I was discussing was the relationship to the to the promises that now as stagecraft. This is just a theory. I don't know, and I'm not sure yet, but as stagecraft about, you know, you got electricity and then you begin, you'd have a thunderstorm, then you could have a shipwreck, and then you're going to be all of that. You do it in more serious time. So by the time you had you had the, the, the helm pump drive beginning toward this is actually the way people this is how they speak. This is how the drawing room looks. And then you get into check off and things and and what happened? You got a sort of a crazy business. It was Belasco also imported actual rooms from England. Yes. And sort of an actual. So then you got a reaction away from us. And I think this is parallel with the development of the of the advent of film motion picture, which was even more realist. And I would presume that this medium, certainly you have to be realistic because people look so real and everything. And so the theater this time around, the time of Barack Paul and so forth, you get a violent reaction in the opposite direction. Going back to a theatrical and, you know, you got the dregs of the realists with half a million people and you got the violent reaction, which is absolutely obvious now. It's practically universal. Realistic drawing was. So I saw an Epson flag from London was spooky. So finally you've got theater going in the right direction. Now. Film, by and large, is still persuaded that you should be realistic now at this point, and you get films like like Sporting Life and Things, which is terribly confused because they're so realistic, and then all of a sudden they have symbolic things, you know, spiders on the wall and all that jazz which don't fit in with realistic stuff at all. And you've got this funny clashing and then you've got what we're doing, the sudden arrest, which is, as I explained before, totally different because this really is to do with reality. So now at the same time, in film, you've you've had early beginnings with, for instance, Eisenstein, who was never interested in realism and the sounds. His beginnings of his experiments and and really formalized. Well, it started much earlier than the opera and the Germans in. Caligari. Eisenstein and getting in the sort of operatic forms highly formalized recently. Of course we know who is is is hell bound away from from from realism. And I think that there's again, this is a newer area that nobody's really tackled. It's presents terribly difficult problems because it's true. The film is so inherently realistic and in a funny sort of way, my hunch is that what we're doing is the most important thing the film can do. That the other uses of film, the theatrical uses, are going to go in the direction the theater is going away from. Realism. Because I have a feeling all the guys that have gotten more and more realistic just go up to a dead end.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307#t=1271.7,1647.81"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307/transcript/76679/annotation/87","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e While they remain realistic, wouldn't you admit? In a style of realism, but actually that we're still hamstrung to a theatrical device, to a to intrigue, plotting, to dramatic destruction, and then the magical science and and finally the realism only remained a kind of a realism of setting.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307#t=1648.74,1673.79"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307/transcript/76679/annotation/88","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eUnidentified:\u003c/strong\u003e And, and a kind of a realism, the, the look of the people in their dress to the point that it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307#t=1674.33,1679.79"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307/transcript/76679/annotation/89","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e Never was real. You know, then it seems to me that there is, since you pointed out that film is inherently realist, it tends to make things look real. Yeah. This is a basic operating principle of the film.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307#t=1679.88,1695.42"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307/transcript/76679/annotation/90","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e But now you see your beginning in films like Shoot the Piano Player on I'm Julia. Julia. Jim. And things are beginning to get. And marvelously. Because the Japanese understood this long ago. Well, it's marvelous to have ghosts and films.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307#t=1696.38,1711.42"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307/transcript/76679/annotation/91","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eUnidentified:\u003c/strong\u003e But because they're much. Really. And then.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307#t=1712.14,1715.32"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307/transcript/76679/annotation/92","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e They're fine. I mean, yeah, you have very definite sounds. The Japanese film, many of them. But this is theater. There's no bullshit about. It's theater. And. My own feeling is that the the what I regard as in a sense, is for strong word. But I don't like film news just for for. I don't like to be hoodwinked. I don't want to play games. When I go to a musical, it's fine. You know, West Side Story, I love them, you know? I know Puerto Ricans don't sing and dance in the street. Anybody else does. It's an opera. It's a piece of theater.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307#t=1716.58,1758.99"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307/transcript/76679/annotation/93","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eUnidentified:\u003c/strong\u003e Wonderful. Absolutely wonderful.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307#t=1759.74,1760.91"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307/transcript/76679/annotation/94","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e But when I go to the connection and they tell me they're not putting on a play, and I know bloody well I'm putting on a flight or some nonsense of books, and I find it very, very aggravating.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307#t=1764.03,1773.96"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307/transcript/76679/annotation/95","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, I think you and surely will admit that this was.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307#t=1775.22,1777.26"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307/transcript/76679/annotation/96","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e The issue is. But even better. I found it was annoying. Oh, some wily actors comes up and says he wants to make a connection in the end bowl and try to catch $10 off and bullshit. And I was doing it every night. You know, I'm not. I don't need you. I don't like to be treated like an idiot. I want to play. Let's have a play. If we're going to look at reality, let's look at reality. And if the author's got something to say, he wants to give me a lecture. Then, for Christ's sakes, have the honesty and self-respect to come out and tell me what he has on his mind. I'd love it that way. Give me a clean straight.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307#t=1777.56,1816.04"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307/transcript/76679/annotation/97","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e Of course not. In a cruel world. Did you see the cruel world? Yeah. It seems to me that the kind of subject to here that Shirley is dealing with nevertheless needs a feeling of competence. And what you're saying is, is real or to be able to move along. Otherwise, it is, not it?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307#t=1817.25,1835.93"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307/transcript/76679/annotation/98","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah. No longer. There are three. So three different kinds of film that came up from those early Shirley Clarke. You know, Dizzy Gillespie accompanied by pictures. Those. Informational sort of like mental health films. Informational film. Sort of lecturing you where like the scene where the college graduate does so for all the wrong things, which is for the edification and uplift of the audience and so on. Was there is an attempt with straight dramatic filming. I love Hollywood by Souffle.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307#t=1836.68,1879.6"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307/transcript/76679/annotation/99","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e In other words, a realistic basis. And with a dramatic structure.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307#t=1881.34,1885.57"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307/transcript/76679/annotation/100","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e So yeah. For now. The thing that I found missing in all that was any kind of emotion. Which I don't understand. But my own feeling. As if, you know, Shelley is dealing here with a very real subject. The best way I know the work is to go to the subject, the real thing. Nobody's convinced by play is about Negroes. It's true for a subject.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307#t=1886.89,1918.09"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307/transcript/76679/annotation/101","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eUnidentified:\u003c/strong\u003e Up. You know, the other people would come of the people that agree with you anyway. Whereas I think.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307#t=1920.73,1927.27"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307/transcript/76679/annotation/102","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e That when you take a look at the real situation, you do actually have the chance of persuading people because you inform them of something they learned, something they didn't know might be under the possibility of change.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307#t=1927.51,1940.72"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307/transcript/76679/annotation/103","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e Now, do you think it truly made it very seem to me a very strong and worthwhile effort to try and to surround and recreate a certain kind of reality within a and a real context by improvizational techniques.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307#t=1941.56,1960.43"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307/transcript/76679/annotation/104","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eUnidentified:\u003c/strong\u003e And so forth, depending very much on what you could draw out of people who were actually involved in the drama she was depicting. Well very fun. Yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307#t=1961.03,1969.58"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307/transcript/76679/annotation/105","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e Fine.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307#t=1970.48,1970.48"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307/transcript/76679/annotation/106","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Anyone go? Well, no. And then the only question is to do it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307#t=1971.2,1974.26"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307/transcript/76679/annotation/107","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eUnidentified:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, now. The only reason to write about it was I.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307#t=1974.35,1981.94"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307/transcript/76679/annotation/108","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Probably only in the sense that I don't think that this is the direction.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307#t=1982.24,1984.97"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307/transcript/76679/annotation/109","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eUnidentified:\u003c/strong\u003e But that's the that's the new direction.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307#t=1988.63,1991.45"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307/transcript/76679/annotation/110","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e This is. Well, it's it's the realist film.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307#t=1996.87,2003.32"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307/transcript/76679/annotation/111","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eUnidentified:\u003c/strong\u003e This is some like finding you're you're what you're in some saying is that this is.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307#t=2004.49,2009.32"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307/transcript/76679/annotation/112","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e Finding sort of.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307#t=2009.71,2010.43"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307/transcript/76679/annotation/113","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eUnidentified:\u003c/strong\u003e New, new materials for the same.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307#t=2010.55,2014.57"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307/transcript/76679/annotation/114","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e Sort of theme quickly.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307#t=2015.44,2016.07"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307/transcript/76679/annotation/115","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e The subject matter is what's revolutionary about so from really that that. That's very worthy and know. Let's say let's.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307#t=2018.17,2031.79"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307/transcript/76679/annotation/116","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e Put it this way. It would have been perhaps impossible to have. Encountered and truly, in a direct manner, a situation which had as many facets to it. Perhaps you wouldn't have. I mean, I'm I'm just supposing. But it would be. It have been extremely.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307#t=2031.97,2052.6"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307/transcript/76679/annotation/117","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eUnidentified:\u003c/strong\u003e Difficult, if not impossible, to have been able to find a subject that was that developed, you see, and had a, a a great deal of cohesion.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307#t=2053.17,2066.04"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307/transcript/76679/annotation/118","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Come in. Hold on. Yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307#t=2066.85,2067.81"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307/transcript/76679/annotation/119","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e So what I'm saying.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307#t=2069.85,2071.44"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307/transcript/76679/annotation/120","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eUnidentified:\u003c/strong\u003e Is that finally she was able to give us by recreating and trying to.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307#t=2071.8,2077.469"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307/transcript/76679/annotation/121","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e Make her recreation and, and keep its roots in the reality that she's trying to give us a, you know, a clearer picture, let's say. I'll admit that there are several styles or so of other things.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307#t=2077.59,2091.27"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307/transcript/76679/annotation/122","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e But the the principle seems to be here that a a logical operator. But my own feeling is that the, the, the more plastic forms and the less realistic build up is more if you're dealing with ideas, is more moving back to him in every way. And fake reality. I just don't think I'm in a cage. There have been a few very mild.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307#t=2091.54,2120.23"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307/transcript/76679/annotation/123","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eUnidentified:\u003c/strong\u003e Mostly dumb pictures of the neo realist things, but by and large.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307#t=2120.68,2127.97"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307/transcript/76679/annotation/124","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e There is a question of writing. Acting and realism really has very little to do with how effective it is. As theater comes.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307#t=2134.42,2149.93"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307/transcript/76679/annotation/125","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e Down to a kind of faith that one has in one direction or another, I suppose I was thinking.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307#t=2150.26,2155.0"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307/transcript/76679/annotation/126","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eUnidentified:\u003c/strong\u003e In terms of surrealist film. In your film, Petey and Johnny, I don't know how much your film it is, but there.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307#t=2155.57,2163.91"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307/transcript/76679/annotation/127","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e Is a scene I was in with Just the Big Night where A character we haven't seen before. It breaks down and cries on a bed or a Jonesboro on it. Now, this person has not been introduced, and we really don't know that he's the brother of the principal character until just almost at the moment when we see him in this tremendously emotional scene. It has been pointed out.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307#t=2164.12,2190.24"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307/transcript/76679/annotation/128","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eUnidentified:\u003c/strong\u003e To me it isn't original or me, but this comes of that.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307#t=2190.45,2193.87"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307/transcript/76679/annotation/129","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e And this may be worthwhile considering that if somehow this character could have been established and worked in better towards it in the beginning of the.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307#t=2195.46,2204.04"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307/transcript/76679/annotation/130","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Film first, then the scene itself would have become much more, much more effective. Yeah. This is a this is a principle.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307#t=2204.1,2210.04"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307/transcript/76679/annotation/131","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eUnidentified:\u003c/strong\u003e Of dramatic presentation. Yeah, we're dealing with. But I can't the fan quickly. Grew out of a.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307#t=2210.55,2223.54"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307/transcript/76679/annotation/132","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Mishmash of a half dozen people shooting over weird periods. Nobody really knew what they were dying. Very poorly. The very poorly executed money was the marvelous things done up. And then on top of this, it's forced into a mold.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307#t=2223.63,2243.84"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307/transcript/76679/annotation/133","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eUnidentified:\u003c/strong\u003e But. To make it, you know, the drama of these two people.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307#t=2246.57,2251.16"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307/transcript/76679/annotation/134","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Sort of. Loses some of its impact as far as.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307#t=2253.77,2259.26"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307/transcript/76679/annotation/135","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e So would you in any case?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307#t=2259.71,2261.84"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307/transcript/76679/annotation/136","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eUnidentified:\u003c/strong\u003e I think it was a tremendously ambitious thing. I don't think we were, like, running to really help. Yeah. Would you though, and at any.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307#t=2263.52,2270.33"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307/transcript/76679/annotation/137","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e Point in something that you might be doing now if you felt the need of a particular scene that that illustrated, let's say, something that, that you felt inherent in the subject, since you do put put a lot of importance on what you feel about what's going on. I'm trying to initiate a scene, you know, created.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307#t=2270.51,2292.06"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307/transcript/76679/annotation/138","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eUnidentified:\u003c/strong\u003e All the work that would be in an indirect manner to.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307#t=2294.43,2297.97"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307/transcript/76679/annotation/139","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e An audience. Yeah. And I do like the vocal.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307#t=2298.45,2300.73"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307/transcript/76679/annotation/140","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e I prefer not to. But this is how far you are in the film. I couldn't get into any situation where a direct discussion of the subject of harm took place. So I asked someone to invite a group of people to their home. And and hash it out, you know, have a discussion. And it was informal and it's the scene and this was the me I was sitting in rather than whatever. You know, it was in the not not the formal meeting where they talked about the doctor not coming out. That was the thing that just happened. But where they're sitting around and the guy says, well, I think we're talking out of two sides by mouth. Yeah, the other guy says he doesn't. What about the other thing? Once that discussion got going, it had little or nothing to do with me. They were discussing, but I did ask the guy to invite people to his home because it had happened all over town, but I wasn't there. So I had to sort of, you know, be there the next time.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307#t=2301.21,2369.72"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307/transcript/76679/annotation/141","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e And now, let's say that you would miss a scene was particularly revealing where Mrs. Fisher is given clothes, and that's to try on.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307#t=2371.64,2382.8"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307/transcript/76679/annotation/142","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eUnidentified:\u003c/strong\u003e Things that obviously do not fit with her, with her life, or the way she sees the life and things of that nature. So we found it was very important in the film. It was the the.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307#t=2382.95,2393.93"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307/transcript/76679/annotation/143","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e Exploitation that regardless of.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307#t=2394.98,2398.22"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307/transcript/76679/annotation/144","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eUnidentified:\u003c/strong\u003e The person, if you would miss that scene and.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307#t=2398.4,2403.53"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307/transcript/76679/annotation/145","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e You had seen it or something. Would you have felt justified in asking it to be redone? No, I couldn't do it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307#t=2404.75,2410.33"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307/transcript/76679/annotation/146","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Wouldn't work. I couldn't work, that wouldn't work. Why wouldn't I mean it? You don't think you could have gotten to that about it? Then. Then I would have to tell everybody what to do, and I would lose all.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307#t=2411.41,2423.2"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307/transcript/76679/annotation/147","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eUnidentified:\u003c/strong\u003e It just wouldn't work. It's incredible how it changes.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307#t=2423.8,2426.65"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307/transcript/76679/annotation/148","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e And so much more important, it would reveal that I learned certain things of, well, most important things.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307#t=2428.06,2437.48"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307/transcript/76679/annotation/149","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eUnidentified:\u003c/strong\u003e And I would like to control my relationship first. And I'm filming.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307#t=2437.9,2441.44"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307/transcript/76679/annotation/150","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Everybody. Nearly everybody wants to please you. You know, you're the man. The camera. Just what is it you're doing? Let me give you an example of putting down that. Everybody that had been down to the Fisher family wanted to take pictures of Mr. Fisher at the place where he used to work. It was no longer working. I took a leave of absence from the work. So he said, well, I guess I'll go down. He's trying to be helpful, you know. Here we were, these poor guys, and they didn't seem to be having the shoot. And he was genuinely sorry for us. So he said, well, why don't I go down to the place where I work? So he went down, we got out of the car. He said, well, now you want me to go in? I said, I don't want to do anything. He said, well, don't you want me to go in and shake hands with the boss and say hello to the boys? I said, no. I said, do you want to say shake hands with the bosses tomorrow? So we'll do. Let's go home. Because you see, once you, you know, then you'll do something else to please me. I'm not interested in pleasing me, but I don't care how unhappy I am. I don't want him to please me. I want him to do what he wants to do. Once I start asking him.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307#t=2442.76,2514.03"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307/transcript/76679/annotation/151","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eUnidentified:\u003c/strong\u003e To do things. And then.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307#t=2514.15,2516.73"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307/transcript/76679/annotation/152","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e How did you finally establish your relationship with you. You said that you did it. You had very little relationship with them. Funnily enough, we were the ones that left them alone. And this was sort of cutting up the noses, the spy and whatever that thing is. But so the film really isn't close to that. We were with them on a couple of charming things happened, like the kittens that just happened. What's the most real thing.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307#t=2519.94,2549.95"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307/transcript/76679/annotation/153","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eUnidentified:\u003c/strong\u003e With the whole picture? And nothing to do with us? The kids found the kittens in the barn. They yelled into the car and we just happened to be back. Almost the most charming thing. What have you. Did you feel that you had enough footage to make the film? When was the witch telling you?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307#t=2551.12,2573.77"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307/transcript/76679/annotation/154","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, I had a dilemma.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307#t=2573.98,2574.55"}]},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307/transcript/76679","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["English [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262307/transcript/76679/annotation/155","type":"Annotation","motivation":"subtitling","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/file_transcripts/associated_files/000/076/679/original/trint_Coll458_jb0028_Leacock_01_transcript.vtt?1740614657","format":"text/vtt","language":"en"},"target":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/file_transcripts/associated_files/000/076/679/original/trint_Coll458_jb0028_Leacock_01_transcript.vtt?1740614657"}]}]},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262306","type":"Canvas","label":{"en":["Media File 2 of 2 - Coll458_jb0028_Leacock_02.mp3"]},"duration":2567.73225,"width":640,"height":360,"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/public/images/audio-default.png","type":"Image","format":"image/png"}],"items":[{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262306/content/1","type":"AnnotationPage","items":[{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262306/content/2/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"painting","body":{"id":"https://aviary-p-universityoforegonlibraries.s3.wasabisys.com/collection_resource_files/resource_files/000/262/306/original/Coll458_jb0028_Leacock_02.mp3?1739224664","type":"Audio","format":"audio/mpeg","duration":2567.73225,"width":640,"height":360},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262306","metadata":[]}]}],"annotations":[{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262306/transcript/79511","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["AUTO_TRINT_Coll458_jb0028_Leacock_02.mp3 [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262306/transcript/79511/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e No, that film really is part of the system work.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262306#t=4.82,7.16"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262306/transcript/79511/annotation/2","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e You're doing good. You're in contact. Do not fall. Fall. Yeah, break. Ah ha.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262306#t=14.83,23.13"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262306/transcript/79511/annotation/3","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 3:\u003c/strong\u003e Sorry. I don't know what I said. I don' know what you're saying.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262306#t=27.52,33.35"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262306/transcript/79511/annotation/4","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 4:\u003c/strong\u003e To become proof of, see, what in this dilemma, it doesn't prove so, see? Exploitation, because anything other than that is charity, right? And we don't prove charity. You know, until we find ourselves having fun. What can suck? Nobody's that clear about it. One guy said, you know, he says what we're talking about both sides of our mouths. They were aware that something was wrong. But there's really no...","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262306#t=37.53,65.86"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262306/transcript/79511/annotation/5","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 3:\u003c/strong\u003e Um... Thank you so much.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262306#t=68.71,72.8"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262306/transcript/79511/annotation/6","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 5:\u003c/strong\u003e I think it's the first time that's happened, first time we've ever come here. Could've.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262306#t=77.03,81.73"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262306/transcript/79511/annotation/7","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 3:\u003c/strong\u003e What's up, man?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262306#t=84.03,84.77"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262306/transcript/79511/annotation/8","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 5:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, you know, one of the things is, like I said, there's more than... More indirectly and therefore for me more prolonging the way even the chair Or any of the others that I have seen puts its finger on a an abstract problem in a way, I mean a problem of a social economic problem that extends into our own morals here, the problems, the batteries are coming out of the plants now.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262306#t=90.52,127.01"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262306/transcript/79511/annotation/9","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 3:\u003c/strong\u003e There, now I'm getting it. Now maybe it was going to... Yeah, this is getting a bit too... You must have a broken line somewhere. Maybe so. Well, let's keep it that way.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262306#t=129.16,146.52"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262306/transcript/79511/annotation/10","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 4:\u003c/strong\u003e All right. But, uh, what's the discussion between Lipscomb and myself? Have you noticed? What do you mean by that?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262306#t=148.5,158.98"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262306/transcript/79511/annotation/11","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 5:\u003c/strong\u003e The discussion.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262306#t=159.01,159.17"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262306/transcript/79511/annotation/12","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 4:\u003c/strong\u003e Oh, were you at the seminar? I was at the thing before.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262306#t=159.58,162.86"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262306/transcript/79511/annotation/13","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 5:\u003c/strong\u003e No, no, I got in. I didn't know there was going to be one. I see. I came in at the 6 o'clock showing.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262306#t=162.91,168.57"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262306/transcript/79511/annotation/14","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 4:\u003c/strong\u003e The definitions of what we're doing, I've said often that as far as I'm concerned, that you know, what are the ground rules? Under what circumstances can you do one of these films? Obviously, even though we've reduced as much as we can, the impact of the filming process on the situation that you're going into, obviously you're affecting it. Now, there's an analogy in science, because people get into these long discussions of objectivity. Is it objective? Is it not objective? Are we objective, etc., etc., Well, as far as I'm concerned, all of these things, these things are nearly always relative questions. A physicist, and I used to be one by the way, when you make an electrical measurement on a circuit, You do it with a voltmeter. Now the moment you do that, you change the circuit thing, because some of the electricity is now going through the voltmeter, and every physicist knows this. So you design your voltmeter so that very little goes through it. And in a very sensitive situation, you need a much more little going through it, or you upset it. But inevitably you do change the situation. Now the thing with the physicist is fairly easy, you know exactly how much you change and you argue your way out of the paper bag, you know, so we know this much is going there, so we discount this, so it's irrelevant, etc. Now, if there are a thousand people in the banquet hall and a newspaper man walks in, automatically it changes it. Not very much. You walk into the camera, it changes a little bit more, but not very much, now if even with our minimal problem. If we walk in on Mrs. Fisher alone when she's doing nothing we're the only interesting thing in the room. So we change it enormously now. If we walk in on Mrs. Fisher, when she's trying to get the kids off to school and she's mad as a hornet out from when they're late or something, we change that very little. And so it's a constantly changing role to playing, of which, you know, that one has to be aware of. So, you now, the only way that I can summarize is that we try to film That we're really only successful in finding out anything when we're filming somebody who is more concerned with what they're doing than with the fact that we are filming them. Well, this led, did it not, to a...","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262306#t=171.38,334.01"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262306/transcript/79511/annotation/15","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 5:\u003c/strong\u003e Drew his attention in your early efforts to find a crisis-making situation.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262306#t=336.3,341.68"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262306/transcript/79511/annotation/16","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 4:\u003c/strong\u003e Yes, well then let me outline what I can set as the ground rules, and then we'll go on to his, because now I think there's a real difference developing. Then I feel, you know, what is it that we are doing? Well, the closest to an accurate definition that I can say is that the finished film, when it is photographed by a filmmaker and edited by the same filmmaker with no interference. Then... What you get is an aspect of the filmmaker's perception of what happened. Now this is assuming that he does no directing, no directing of appearance. He doesn't suggest, he doesn't, and then the relationship of the filmmakers, a very peculiar one, we'll go into that later. It's sort of what I call a gray relationship. You must have the respect of the person you're shooting, but they mustn't, in a sense, be influenced. So it's a sort of an inoperative respect. For instance, I felt that in the Maisel showman, they never won the respect of Joel Levine. I think he was treating them as office boys that he could get rid of or he could let in. Well, this David said is- Yeah, well, I- I sensed this the whole time, but he really didn't respect them. He didn't understand what they were doing. And this is terribly important if you're going to succeed. It was very difficult for us to gain the respect of the fishers. And funnily enough, ironically enough, again, we had a dilemma. The only way we can gain respect of the fish is to stay away from them, which was, again a suicidal thing. It was nuts. But we had to do it. And in a funny sense. Because we knew that by being, by bugging them, the way everybody else was bugging them, we were driving them crazy. And we were part of the very thing that we were filming. We too were exploiting them. So we've gotten to very complicated issues there. So if you think of it as an aspect of my perception of what happened. Now, again, in the Fisher film, we have a strange... Thing. For instance, what is the case if I shoot it and somebody else has it? Well, we have this. In the case of the Fisher film, the Quintuple film, because of a legal wrangle with Drew and things, we had to give ABC two prints of every single thing we shot and sync sound. And they edited a half hour film which went on the air themselves from exactly identical footage that we have a print of that. And you cannot imagine two more different films, two utterly totally different films. It's very important. Oh, go ahead. So I think of myself as having a very, very rigid discipline. To me, it's like writing songs. The moment you break those rules, you don't have a song. You may have something else. You may something better. I don't know. It's not the same thing. And I don' care. It may work for a while, but you begin to get distortions. Now why are we doing this? And to me, the only purpose of doing this is to find out something, important aspects by watching our society, by watching the way things really happen, as opposed to the social image that people have of the way that things are supposed to happen, by seeing discrepancies in us, by revealing the things that are different from what expected from the cliche. I think people in general are going to find out something quite important about themselves. That's why there's a deliberate attempt here in the Fisher film, the Grint film, to see what was going on that was important, to this as a social blend and not simply as a bunch of jokes. Um, now, on the other hand...","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262306#t=342.83,616.91"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262306/transcript/79511/annotation/17","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 5:\u003c/strong\u003e View to see it as a social dilemma. There was a definite view on you.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262306#t=618.03,622.35"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262306/transcript/79511/annotation/18","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 4:\u003c/strong\u003e Oh yes, I went down, I had the faintest idea what was happening. I wasn't even interested. And I started watching this going on in this town, and more and more, by the time we left we were absolutely convinced that this was the most important thing that was happening then. With this relationship between exploitation, non-exploitation, and the, not only the but of the... Grown-ups the way that nobody paid any attention to that mother you know when they took a shopping they were doing something that had no relationship to her they never asked her what sort of a dress do you want it looked like it looked like the prize on a quiz show now so the alternatives the alternatives. I think that one's going to get into a danger here. We have a problem This film is very successful critically a lot of people love it in audiences Now the problem is it doesn't sell anything. It doesn't so no it doesn' sell drugs. It. Doesn't sell motherhood It's got problems now supposing you start changing this and You say well, we've got to have an exciting story I'm talking about the problems that arose in relation to ABC, etc. It's got to be gripping, it's got be this, you start putting, I'm saying it's gotta be interesting, otherwise it's scrapping. But supposing you say it's gonna be exciting, it got to fascinate 20 million people, 30 million people. However many it is, they've got those crazy numbers and these TV outputs. To me a million people is more than I can see of, I mean I know about a hundred people. I'm not even sure I know a hundred. I'm brilliant now. I know about thirty, you know. The thing that I'm afraid of happening is that it's terribly easy and it's very difficult to deter. Use of the same techniques to reinforce the preconceived conceptions of what happened. This is a silly thing to worry about, there's nothing you can do about it. People will either sense the difference or they won't, but it's going to take a great deal of sophistication. You can... And I think that... I think that this is tended to happen.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262306#t=621.06,798.78"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262306/transcript/79511/annotation/19","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 5:\u003c/strong\u003e Finally wound up with a conception of what happened. Oh, yes, which you tried to draw out of your...","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262306#t=801.449,806.83"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262306/transcript/79511/annotation/20","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 4:\u003c/strong\u003e But what I'm getting at is that it's much easier to distort than I had thought at first. I've said several times that it is very difficult to distort the conception of the situation that you come out with. I now realize that on the most important level, it's very easy to distort it. And it's almost inevitable, I think, unless... Well, it requires that this be done by most, you know, two people who are involved all the way through and are, in a sense, socially aware of what they're doing. But I don't mean in a sociological sense, but they've got to be pretty shrewd observers, not just cameramen or not just editors or...","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262306#t=808.03,855.96"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262306/transcript/79511/annotation/21","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 5:\u003c/strong\u003e But obviously, you will have, I mean, since you've drawn this thumb toward the expression of a dilemma, in a sense, you have distorted all of the various aspects to fit this idea, which may be a real idea.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262306#t=856.88,872.68"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262306/transcript/79511/annotation/22","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 4:\u003c/strong\u003e You see, you get places...","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262306#t=875.24,876.46"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262306/transcript/79511/annotation/23","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 5:\u003c/strong\u003e Actually, I have a feeling that with this film, we're talking finally about the commitment to a certain viewpoint and which makes it valuable, I think. But isn't that, you know...","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262306#t=878.83,893.19"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262306/transcript/79511/annotation/24","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 4:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, to me, the film presents evidence. Now you could set, again, this is an analogy to a scientific one. The ABC film is all perfectly true. It's just uninteresting. They're not distorting in the sense, that is, it's a distortion by omission. It's that kind of distortion. They simply were not aware of what was going on, they didn't see it in the material, and if they had seen it, they'd have mourned it. And so what did the film become? It became a mishmash about sweet little children lying in cradle, and girls singing songs, and nurses telling you in interviews how the babies were born, and all that sort of stuff. Oh, which is true. Perfectly fine. Just missed what I found significant in the situation. Now... Down, you see, Jim Lipscomb's definition, which, you know, I used to go along with, was that the, that you have to, how is it, that in all these situations, there is a drama, there's a real storyline. Now, this can be true in such a situation. Um... And that's where you run into the real... It's hard for me to express this, it's more a feeling that...","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262306#t=893.97,994.56"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262306/transcript/79511/annotation/25","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 5:\u003c/strong\u003e It's terribly easy to distort. Well, the drama, for instance, in the tear was, is he going to get out of it or not? Is he, is he, so we had a kind of, let's wait and see.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262306#t=996.2,1007.94"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262306/transcript/79511/annotation/26","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 4:\u003c/strong\u003e See what's going to happen. Is he going to make it? Well, what I think is happening there, you see, is that we're all brought up to certain preconceptions of what a drama is. The obvious soap opera content of The Chair is that drama, Will He or Won't He? My own feeling, having shot, you know, Drew and I shot the lawyer, and Annie and Greg shot the stuff in the jail, and we all shot in the courtroom, now my own feeling is that The obvious drama was not really the most interesting thing that we got. We were locked out of the jail. As we'll be frank, we'd be seen walking to the chair down the corridor and things were shot over a month after the whole incident, because we couldn't get into the jail at that time. And these things were shots to get the material to conform to the will-he-want-he thing, which existed, but it existed in very peculiar form. And inevitably there's this process of selection. I must say, I feel that many of the most interesting things that we've found out were omitted because they did not fit the conception that was required of the film, that it showed this kind of a drama. And you can get into awful trouble. When you have the pressures of commercial television and things saying not give us something interesting but give us some exciting for instance the lawyer was terribly pissed off at Louie Nizer coming in and said so there are yards material, pissing and screaming, who's this son of a bitch coming out of New York, dub dub dub and he was terribly concerned with the race tracks all the way through And so, you know, at times you wonder, how the hell is this guy ever going to get out? He's never going to the bloody brief room. And there are all sorts of things that I feel are important, and I think... What I'm really getting at here is that everything about network television as it exists today with its audience requirements mitigates against honest reporting. Now you may get a remarkable guy who can satisfy both things, who can really tell the truth and be interesting. And also satisfy the demands for winning a gigantic audience that I gripped and grabbed them by the throat or whatever it is. You've got to grab them by their jugular, praise God. What I'm really saying is that this, as I see it, should not be any part of the entertainment industry, as we know it. This, I think, is part of what should be, and I know education is a terribly dull word, but this has to do with education, with learning about ourselves, learning about our own society. And sometimes it can be quite rugged. And this is the area that logically, where this should blossom. Where you're going for a limited group, perhaps. Oh, you know, let's make it as broad as possible, by all means, make it available. I'm not expecting 20 million people every week to be grabbed by what we're doing.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262306#t=1007.97,1252.52"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262306/transcript/79511/annotation/27","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 5:\u003c/strong\u003e So what you're saying, in other words, rather than seeking out the plot that's going to grip and grab, rather find what is inherent. What important is going on? What is original and... And it's this right here.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262306#t=1252.97,1268.59"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262306/transcript/79511/annotation/28","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 4:\u003c/strong\u003e This is the process of getting to know our society, of getting to understand it, of it's a process of discovery. It has to do with it, it relates to science, it relates to society, to education. Now, of course, good drama should too. This is a dilemma that Broadway has. It's not enough for a play to interest. Um, a small audience. It's got to be a total success or total disaster, and you know, um, great big intellectuals like, like Walter Kerr, um come down and they lower the boom on the bloody thing. If they're not, if they're not moved to tears or... Right. That's right. And it stands, you know, it runs three days or it runs three years. You know, we're more and more, we getting the television thing this, Broadway has this, the movies has this. And to me, we've got to do something like, it's like the small to compact car, you now? There's got to be some sort of a revolution. There's gotta be some way where we can be satisfied with smaller audiences, with less gigantic sums. With more communicat-","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262306#t=1268.79,1350.58"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262306/transcript/79511/annotation/29","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 5:\u003c/strong\u003e In order for this kind of thing to actually exist, we have to develop the mass minority","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262306#t=1352.61,1356.53"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262306/transcript/79511/annotation/30","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 4:\u003c/strong\u003e Yes, what we've got to find look the novelists had the same problem in the 19th century is they went a hell of a lot of people Wrote and write you know they had to find their audience and We know that the audience exists we can have screening after screening night after night in New York and pack the room Where people who are fascinated by the point? And by primary in certain moments. But we've got to find some way where we can organize an audience that we know exists. And at the moment, frankly, we have enough foggiers. The obvious place is television. But funnily enough, it's cut off. It's read itself out of the field, so to speak. You know, we think about the theaters, but you know, the short films have been condemned before it even tried by the film industry. It's ridiculous. There's something that happily doesn't exist in Europe. Yes, it does, same problem. It's a little better. TV's, I wouldn't say TV's better. They run in Beverly Hill, but it's less than they do here. But there are programs that are. Consciously geared to a smaller audience.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262306#t=1358.09,1441.19"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262306/transcript/79511/annotation/31","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 5:\u003c/strong\u003e I know that in Paris, I mean, the Pagoda will run, Francis will run and they ran three of the others. But they lost money. Normally she will do that, the lady who runs it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262306#t=1442.79,1454.15"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262306/transcript/79511/annotation/32","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 4:\u003c/strong\u003e There are places here, and I don't think there's a hell of a lot of difference, you know, on the bus existed here, till the port pulled out of it, Sunday afternoon, I know it's disastrous, but I'm happy with that sort of an audience. Right, well I think that we're only six million.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262306#t=1454.44,1479.02"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262306/transcript/79511/annotation/33","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 5:\u003c/strong\u003e Many of us are trying, I think, to find some new way of distribution, organized. Colin Young was trying to work on a film institute idea in California, in which he would somehow marshal the mass audience, the mass minority group, into some attainable situation where","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262306#t=1482.31,1506.93"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262306/transcript/79511/annotation/34","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 4:\u003c/strong\u003e One of the problems is that this always gets mixed up with what is traditionally known as culture, which is pretty deadly. I mean, what happened to Omnibus is typical. They insisted on not badly produced Greek vise and modern dance, and it becomes a strength for us. It becomes, you know, it loses people like droves.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262306#t=1509.46,1536.6"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262306/transcript/79511/annotation/35","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 5:\u003c/strong\u003e Now, I don't know how you get around that, but to get back to the film itself, the, uh... What you're saying is you're not, you're finally not rejecting the need that the film must have to move people. And grip them, grab them, but that it must be done in terms of something inherent in the situation that you perceive rather than just going after what will obviously grip and grab. Now, the thing that's become significant is that you say that this film... That you made is much more interesting and much more vical than the ABC television film, which you call Boring. This means that in some ways your film then was edited for emotional effect too, so that it would move. I don't have time to go to work.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262306#t=1538.25,1597.02"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262306/transcript/79511/annotation/36","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 4:\u003c/strong\u003e It's got to work. It really boils down to the difference between good journalism and bad journalism.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262306#t=1598.08,1605.58"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262306/transcript/79511/annotation/37","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 5:\u003c/strong\u003e So, what I'm trying to understand is that this seems to be some of the essential problem of this whole approach. You're wanting to remain somehow non-committed or non-interfering. You want to get reality to speak for itself, and yet you... Throughout the film definitely moved in a certain direction, definitely made a certain revelation, which is nothing more than what a creative person does.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262306#t=1608.74,1645.54"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262306/transcript/79511/annotation/38","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 4:\u003c/strong\u003e You're selecting. Everything you do, you're selecting But you see, so does a physicist When he describes a crystal to you He doesn't tell you that it's pretty, or ugly Because that's personal opinion, it's irrelevant You make things pretty, you make judgements, it is irrelevant But, nor does he describe every aspect of a crystal He describes to those aspects which he finds to be interesting and significant. He couldn't describe every aspect of the crystal. He doesn't know every aspect. He'd have to give you the crystal, if you were to do that. He describes those aspects that he judges to be significant and interesting, and to be objective in the sense that he didn't cook it up. He found something out. He's telling you about a crystal. He didn't create it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262306#t=1647.08,1707.82"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262306/transcript/79511/annotation/39","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 5:\u003c/strong\u003e But what he chooses to be the salient aspects of that crystal, in your case of that event, are nevertheless your own choice. This contract is what... With the usual idea one has of your work and of your attitudes toward your work, which generally people think of you as being non-selective in a sense, and more or less, I think... You've been quoted as saying that you were trying to be as objective as possible and non-interfering.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262306#t=1710.03,1748.84"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262306/transcript/79511/annotation/40","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 4:\u003c/strong\u003e That's a different thing. That's why I make this analogy with the scientists. It's no less objective to be selective. Objectivity has to do with, am I causing this to happen? Selective of my being, that's one thing. Now selection, there's nothing that is a physicist, it's a very objective fellow, but he's very selective, he's much more selective than we are. He tells you precisely and only what he wants you to know, all the rest is irrelevant. Now if you want to go north around and you","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262306#t=1750.79,1790.15"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262306/transcript/79511/annotation/41","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 5:\u003c/strong\u003e We come now to then to, I think we're right in the middle of the moral aspect of this problem. Since we're showing something which obviously happened, what we see from cut to cut obviously happened because of the feeling we get from it. There can be, according to what you have seen and what you've picked out, an editing shot that maybe the thing didn't happen this way at all, but the way the inferhens of the film is put together, we get the idea that such and such a thing did happen. I know in Showman there are quite a few moments where shots have been taken from another situation entirely and brought into one scene, but to fill out a given idea of that scene. What do you think about this, this moral aspect involved in this kind of a treatment? I don't know why are you, can you allow yourself to do things like this if you want to be scientific? Um, you avoid it like the plague and it's...","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262306#t=1791.58,1864.37"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262306/transcript/79511/annotation/42","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 4:\u003c/strong\u003e Right, though. There's one shot in the film which was brought in the fellow sequence from another sequence. I just assumed we hadn't found that. It's not important. That simply calls off a Mrs. Fisher looking. It's a basic moral problem to me. And the really difficult one, well there is the one, what you're talking about is the editing of the film, you know, honesty in editing. I think, I mean all you can do is usually sense it, if it's there or not.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262306#t=1865.43,1919.07"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262306/transcript/79511/annotation/43","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 5:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, let's take, for instance, there's a scene, the scene we were talking about at first, the banquet where the girl is singing as prickly as she knows how, and we're getting this tremendously acid feeling from the film.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262306#t=1920.31,1934.13"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262306/transcript/79511/annotation/44","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 4:\u003c/strong\u003e Now those reaction shots are the shots at that moment.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262306#t=1935.61,1939.05"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262306/transcript/79511/annotation/45","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 5:\u003c/strong\u003e The scene builds, and you leave the scene with a look of dismay.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262306#t=1940.72,1946.44"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262306/transcript/79511/annotation/46","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 4:\u003c/strong\u003e I'm a crooked son of a bitch. It's a crooked presentation. Now, I pray that people will be able to tell the difference. Not all of them will. Now, the mayor's speech is there in total without a single cut, because I knew that if I cut that speech and cut in reaction shots, no one would believe that that was his speech. But here's to your acquaintance. You were aware of this more or less. It's not a ball, it's a bat!","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262306#t=1947.85,1976.53"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262306/transcript/79511/annotation/47","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 5:\u003c/strong\u003e Problem well I know but there is a there is an ethical question and it is here no I could have cut it and not be distorting it","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262306#t=1976.63,1983.65"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262306/transcript/79511/annotation/48","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 4:\u003c/strong\u003e But since I knew that your acquaintance would be stretched, I left it in one shot, liberally. I think this is very important in this kind of a... But there are other moral problems that concern me even more. How about the whole question of intrusion, of invasion of privacy, of lawyers? And this, you know, I'm absolutely convinced that these techniques are going to result in the most awful plethora of voyeurism, of peeping-tomism, of every kind of horror. But just as the invention of the printing press and mass distribution of books has resulted in the most God-awful collection of crack. Pornography, crap, junk, bullshit, everything else that goes on to the name of the publishing business. The same thing's going to happen to the film industry. That's the price we pay. There are no rules about it. You can't have laws about moral questions, unfortunately.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262306#t=1983.97,2058.59"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262306/transcript/79511/annotation/49","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 5:\u003c/strong\u003e How do you feel that you overcome the embarrassment of why you're isn't? How can I?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262306#t=2059.679,2069.8"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262306/transcript/79511/annotation/50","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 4:\u003c/strong\u003e I would say the closest I can get to a rule is my personal working rule. I have yet to make a film that I couldn't show to the people concerned with films. And not get, it may be grudging approval, but they're approval. And that's not a...","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262306#t=2069.969,2093.01"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262306/transcript/79511/annotation/51","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 5:\u003c/strong\u003e And not by them. You think that the city council, what was this, Aberdeen? No objection.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262306#t=2093.04,2100.22"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262306/transcript/79511/annotation/52","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 4:\u003c/strong\u003e They've all seen that, that's what they serve. I don't think it's funny. That's the man, the man sat up all night writing that speech. I don' think it is funny. They all applauded that, you heard them. Um, the lady who sang the song might be a bit upset, because you did. She was upset at the time, having to sing the bloody thing. The lady that talks to Mrs. Fisher, you know, about whether you should hold a bunch of mums in your arms or something, that's what she said.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262306#t=2101.509,2138.84"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262306/transcript/79511/annotation/53","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 5:\u003c/strong\u003e When the girls thought about what she could wear.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262306#t=2139.16,2140.8"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262306/transcript/79511/annotation/54","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 4:\u003c/strong\u003e That's the way she thinks you should act!","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262306#t=2142.59,2144.23"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262306/transcript/79511/annotation/55","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 5:\u003c/strong\u003e But nobody, when you showed this to them, thought that the step back had ridiculized.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262306#t=2146.08,2154.16"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262306/transcript/79511/annotation/56","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 4:\u003c/strong\u003e I know there's been a screening of it, and I liked it. You get into further things. The Daily News, when they publish the front page picture of a woman weeping over her child's dead body, you know, they pay her and she agrees to it. It's okay, that isn't an absolute code that works. We can pay people off, and they'll agree to let you do it. I think it's a moral to sell a newspaper on a woman's agony. Both immoral and not interesting. But there are times when I'll break these rules. If I'm going after a socially immoral, that is, somebody I regard as socially immorally, I'll breaking all the rules, at which point they have the perfect right. For instance, anybody films me without my permission, I feel I have the right to knock their teeth in. There's hidden cameras and things. I love hidden cameras. I don't wanna go spying on people. But, if I was doing a film on a bunch of goons, or a bunch a social, the irresponsible people on Dr. Goebbels, or a Hitler, or a drug paddler, I might well hide something. And if he finds out, I guess he's got the right to knock my teeth out. It might have luck. Sometimes...","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262306#t=2159.74,2262.49"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262306/transcript/79511/annotation/57","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 6:\u003c/strong\u003e It's illuminating to see a person in a staggering, you know, look at that picture up there, it's from the daily news. You see those three people, the man and the woman standing behind her, just above the box there? That's taken at the moment that that lady learned that she'd been sentenced to death. That's an incredible picture. She's listening to the verdict right there a terrifying shock the newspaper thing now i i i think that's worth you know","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262306#t=2264.1,2295.75"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262306/transcript/79511/annotation/58","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 7:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, do you have a moment of that air, of that quality, perhaps, or not of that terrifying? Well, we'll make that an impact soon.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262306#t=2297.93,2306.35"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262306/transcript/79511/annotation/59","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 6:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah These are all genuine moral questions, and morality is a tricky business, how do you make rules about it?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262306#t=2308.02,2319.87"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262306/transcript/79511/annotation/60","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 7:\u003c/strong\u003e Let's take up another aspect. First place, this kind of cinema has been accused of having no structure. And then, to a certain degree, it's been accused of having a false structure. The structure imposed upon us, the soap opera structure to make who will get it, who will win. What do you think will go into making an authentic structure that will move and find the film and yet take into consideration your concern, your commitment toward a certain viewpoint? What are the elements that allow you to structure the film? Is it a deepening or a progression of awareness? I think we're dealing with a whole new object, a whole animal. To me, structures have always been a problem. And the thing that fascinates me about Chexbill flies is that they use very large, very corny structures. Lots of people have written essays about what a corny fly, rummy and dirty fly is. Well, that's another thing. I think that's a fly. Well...","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262306#t=2320.5,2390.61"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262306/transcript/79511/annotation/61","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 6:\u003c/strong\u003e That is struck.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262306#t=2391.2,2391.68"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262306/transcript/79511/annotation/62","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 7:\u003c/strong\u003e But structure is also many other things, isn't it? It's one of the fantastic things in Shakespeare. The important thing in the play is nothing would have to do with the structure of the play. But many things that make the Shakespeare play move are not the fact that A against B, a fight, and C is produced, and this and that, and we go along in an intrigue. No, the structure is what gets the audience to, all of a sudden, they have a feeling... Whatever it is, it's come to an end and it's time to go home. The structure is also, it seems to me, a kind of a gross feeling. It moves along like musical harmony. I'm very aware of structure and I think that my own films, by my own ones, I mean the ones that are totally my own, like Toby. Toby is a very definite structure. And there are key trigger moments in Toby that were designed into it, that are structural moments, where all of a sudden you've done a lot of, you know, putting up tents and talking around town, there've been a lot incidental scenes, and suddenly I say, okay, I want to move my audience now, propel them into another phase, and somehow let them know that they're going into another And Toby looks at his watch walks across the street, and the soundtrack has some crazy old tune in double time, right? In double time. And all of a sudden, the thing changes pace, and this does something to you. In this film here, again, there's a fairly definite structure, which works to me, you know, babies, all this, and then it builds and builds, and at first, it's just sort of introductory, and then it starts to build, and it builds right up through the end there. Of a pace and everything else now let's see what takes place that's before the parade before the parade starts which is your last sequence the last thing was right before that is the lady singing before that at the mass speech before that of the press where is the early morning council council that's quite a ways back that's that's the low point of activity the whole film and then it starts to pick up now are these necessarily in chronological Or do you? For instance, Altaway made a very interesting idea. They found out that they found that chronological order was the best sequence. Would you... I tend to say that. It tends to be. It's the base that you're working on. And the closer you can get to real time, somehow the better this thing works. But you wouldn't disavow something like this? No. I mean, the kitten sequence doesn't matter when that happens. There was no real chronology in this, except that the babies were born in the beginning, were a month old at the end, and there was a pariette at the ends. That's the only chronology there was. And the sequence of them driving around the car for the first time. It happened to be the first day we shot? It's true. The first thing we ever shot for them. This is the beginning. But it's irrelevant for the... First thing.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262306#t=2391.98,2559.88"}]},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262306/transcript/79511","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["English [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141777/file/262306/transcript/79511/annotation/63","type":"Annotation","motivation":"subtitling","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/file_transcripts/associated_files/000/079/511/original/trint_Coll458_jb0028_Leacock_02_transcript.vtt?1747070142","format":"text/vtt","language":"en"},"target":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/file_transcripts/associated_files/000/079/511/original/trint_Coll458_jb0028_Leacock_02_transcript.vtt?1747070142"}]}]}]}