{"@context":"http://iiif.io/api/presentation/3/context.json","id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/iiif/k93125r450/manifest","type":"Manifest","label":{"en":["Oral History Interview with Diane DePaolis"]},"logo":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/029/original/uo-logo-hires.png?1580744881","metadata":[{"label":{"en":["Identifier"]},"value":{"en":["Coll520_do011"]}},{"label":{"en":["Format"]},"value":{"en":["Digital Video File"]}},{"label":{"en":["Date"]},"value":{"en":["2018 July 24"]}},{"label":{"en":["Description"]},"value":{"en":["The Eugene Lesbian Oral History Project Collection consists of interviews of 83 people for the Eugene Lesbian Oral History Project, conducted by Professor Judith Raiskin and Curator Linda Long at the University of Oregon starting in the summer of 2018."]}},{"label":{"en":["Abstract"]},"value":{"en":["Diane was born in Danbury, Connecticut. She graduated from Stanford University in 1971. She worked with the Volunteers in Service to America (VISTA) program from 1973 to 1974. She graduated from the University of Oregon Law School in 1976. Dominick Vetri was one of her professors. She clerked in Portland in 1975, and also worked in legal aid. Diane discusses coming out in 1976. She discusses living in the lesbian community in Eugene, and her passion, women's softball. She describes Eugene in the 1970s and 1980s. She discusses the pain of the anti-gay political movement in Oregon. She discusses the leaders of the Oregon Citizens Alliance (OCA). Diane also discusses work on revamping the Oregon criminal code to make solicitation of anal or oral sex not deviant crimes. She talks about the efforts by the OCA to have local cities and small towns pass anti-gay laws. She also discusses a case of voting fraud in Junction City, Oregon. Diane discusses self-esteem issues and drug use in the gay community. Diane went to the March on Washington in 1993. She discusses the joy and feeling of freedom when she took an Olivia Cruise. She discusses marriage equality; in 2004, she married her partner, Nadia Telsey.\n\nKey terms: Coming out (sexual orientation); Homosexuality -- law and legislation -- Oregon; Junction City (Or.); Lane County Legal Aid and Advocacy Center; Lively, Scott; Mabon, Lon; March on Washington for Lesbian, Gay, and Bi Equal Rights and Liberation; Practice of law -- United States; Self disclosure; Self-esteem; Stanford University; Telsey, Nadia; University of Oregon. School of Law; Vetri, Dominick R.; Voting fraud; Women lawyers."]}},{"label":{"en":["Language"]},"value":{"en":["English"]}},{"label":{"en":["Agent"]},"value":{"en":["Diane DePaolis (Interviewee)","Judith L. Raiskin (Interviewer)","Linda Long (Interviewer)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Rights Statement"]},"value":{"en":["In Copyright"]}},{"label":{"en":["Publisher"]},"value":{"en":["University of Oregon Libraries"]}},{"label":{"en":["Source Metadata URI"]},"value":{"en":["https://scua.uoregon.edu/repositories/2/archival_objects/606994"]}},{"label":{"en":["Type"]},"value":{"en":["Moving Image"]}}],"summary":{"en":["The Eugene Lesbian Oral History Project Collection consists of interviews of 83 people for the Eugene Lesbian Oral History Project, conducted by Professor Judith Raiskin and Curator Linda Long at the University of Oregon starting in the summer of 2018."]},"requiredStatement":{"label":{"en":["Attribution"]},"value":{"en":["In Copyright"]}},"provider":[{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/aboutus","type":"Agent","label":{"en":["University of Oregon Libraries"]},"homepage":[{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/","type":"Text","label":{"en":["University of Oregon Libraries"]},"format":"text/html"}],"logo":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/029/original/uo-logo-hires.png?1580744881","type":"Image"}]}],"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/collection_resource_files/thumbnails/000/130/288/small/Coll520_do011.jpg?1637070531","type":"Image","format":"image/jpeg"}],"items":[{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288","type":"Canvas","label":{"en":["Media File 1 of 1 - Coll520_do011.mp4"]},"duration":5914.944,"width":640,"height":360,"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/collection_resource_files/thumbnails/000/130/288/small/Coll520_do011.jpg?1637070531","type":"Image","format":"image/jpeg"}],"items":[{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288/content/1","type":"AnnotationPage","items":[{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288/content/1/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"painting","body":{"id":"https://aviary-p-universityoforegonlibraries.s3.wasabisys.com/collection_resource_files/resource_files/000/130/288/original/Coll520_do011.mp4?1637070531","type":"Video","format":"video/mp4","duration":5914.944,"width":640,"height":360},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288","metadata":[]}]}],"annotations":[{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288/transcript/92573","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["762_Coll520_do011_aligned [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288/transcript/92573/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Long: When did you graduate from Stanford?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288#t=33.91,132.74"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288/transcript/92573/annotation/2","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DePaolis: I graduated from Stanford in 1971. So, I got there right after the Summer of Love and was very happy to be in the Bay area during that time. And then I was pretty sick of the traffic and had discovered Oregon, fell in love with it and the Law School was really affordable. They didn't have out of state tuition then and so it was pretty easy to decide to come here.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288#t=132.98,157.24"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288/transcript/92573/annotation/3","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Raiskin: Did you know anything about a lesbian community in Eugene?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288#t=157.73,162.39"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288/transcript/92573/annotation/4","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DePaolis: I didn't know I was a lesbian in 1972. Well, I had a few vague suspicions that I was pretty seriously stuffing because I didn't want that to be true. Had a lot of self-esteem issues growing up. I was overweight a lot. And I just, being a lesbian did not seem a very good idea. And so I didn't really know that, so no, I didn't know anything. But I started figuring that out over the next few years.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288#t=162.39,196.24"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288/transcript/92573/annotation/5","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And so I came out both to myself first and I came out in 1976 which was the year I graduated. I took a year off in law school because I really hated law school and I didn't see the point. But I was in the VISTA program and I worked in a little legal aid office in rural Eastern Washington. And I did see the point in terms of helping people and putting facts together with the law and trying to solve problems. Then I went back to law school and it made a lot more sense to me. I graduated in 1976 and then took a job with Lane County Legal Aid and worked there for ten years and then I went into private practice.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288#t=196.26,237.82"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288/transcript/92573/annotation/6","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Long: Okay. Would you mind going back and explaining the VISTA program?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288#t=239.25,241.93"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288/transcript/92573/annotation/7","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DePaolis: VISTA, folks now would know the AmeriCorps program, it stood for Volunteers In Service To America. So, you got paid a pittance and you were assigned to various and sundry community-related projects. There was a lot of community organizing. But that's a lot of the smaller legal aid offices all around the country. And legal aid was a much bigger program then because it had been part of the whole war on poverty thing. So a lot of the rural legal aid offices where they would have one, they would be staffed by VISTAs, either lawyers or, I worked as a paralegal that year because I was still a law student. And even I was even a VISTA second year, my first year working at Lane County Legal Aid, which was a bigger program, but it was a way for them to have a lawyer who they didn't have to pay much for. But you didn't make much money. It was a couple hundred dollars a month. I was on food stamps when I was a VISTA. But then after that first year at Lane County Legal Aid, I said, \"Okay, now I want a salary.\" Still wasn't a whole ton of money, it was a lot more than $250 a month.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288#t=241.94,313.39"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288/transcript/92573/annotation/8","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Raiskin: What made you go into law in the first place?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288#t=314.52,316.32"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288/transcript/92573/annotation/9","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DePaolis: Well, when I was in high school, I was smart and I was articulate and I was a good debater and so people— and I was interested in politics. So, people said, \"Oh, you should be a lawyer.\" And I didn't know more about what lawyers did than Perry Mason, a show I had grown up on. But, then I went to college and stopped being an overachiever and had a good time and got a good education in spite of myself. And then all of a sudden I was done with college. I was like, \"Oh, I forgot to think ahead.\" I didn't know what I wanted to do. I majored in psychology, which I was fascinated by, but the trend in psychology studies shifted while I was in college. I used to pick up pocket money by being a volunteer subject for graduate students’ experiments. The first two years I thought they were fascinating. There were experiments about alpha waves. There were experiments about other biofeedback. There was an experiment where they tried to trick you into thinking you had electrocuted a rat. There was a hypnosis experiments. I thought those were really interesting. But my junior and senior years, all the experiments were about learning a theory, which I thought was at least the experiments I was doing were the most abstract, boring, horrible things. I was like, \"This is grad school? I'm not going to grad school in psychology.\" So, that was out and I went, looked around and went, \"Whoa, I don't actually know what to do with myself. Well, what about law school?\" And I was idealistic. I ended up in law school and then I looked around law school. I'm like, \"Yuck, this is awful. All these people, well not all of them, but a lot of them are kind of argumentative jerks and I don't understand how this works and what this case law—\" I just realized I didn't really understand what lawyers did. I arranged to take a leave of absence for a year, which they didn't really want to give me.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288#t=317.38,437.78"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288/transcript/92573/annotation/10","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Nobody was doing externships at that point. There wasn't a lot of focus on practical lawyering. I had one instructor or professor, my first year, Dominic Vetri, who was the only professor I had who gave any thought at all to just practical aspects like having us interview each other about a car accident we had been in just to think about what that is about to interview a client, and those kinds of things. I did think I'm going to do this VISTA year and see what lawyers do on a day to day basis. And so my father was convinced that I would never go back to law school. And I said, \"Well, I haven't made that decision yet, so okay, you can think that.\" But I went off to VISTA. I lived in Omak, Washington.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288#t=438.16,486.71"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288/transcript/92573/annotation/11","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Long: Where's that?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288#t=487.65,487.75"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288/transcript/92573/annotation/12","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DePaolis: It's in Eastern Washington. Just the other side of the Cascades on Highway 97, about fifty miles from the Canadian border. It had a traffic light. It was the only traffic light in a 100 mile radius. It's about three hours from Spokane. It was very, is right on the edge of the Colville Indian reservation, which is a large Native American reservation. There where chief Joseph was buried when they wouldn't let him go back to the Wallowas. And so we had a lot of Native American clients, us because they had a legal services type lawyer but they didn't do any family law because it was often two members of the tribes.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288#t=487.92,532.77"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288/transcript/92573/annotation/13","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I spent a year there as a paralegal and learned about the whole idea of acquiring the facts that the client brings and what their problem is and then looking up the law or figuring out how the law can help them if it can or what it can do for them. And then trying to solve the problem and that turned out that that was the approach I needed. So we did a lot of landlord/tenant, a lot of public benefits, welfare turn downs, foods, that kind of thing. Some social security and a lot of family law.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288#t=535.23,569.51"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288/transcript/92573/annotation/14","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Long: And you said that was '76?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288#t=570.64,573.73"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288/transcript/92573/annotation/15","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DePaolis: No, that was when I graduated. The VISTA year was '73 to '74.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288#t=573.75,578.66"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288/transcript/92573/annotation/16","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Long: Okay.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288#t=578.68,579.17"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288/transcript/92573/annotation/17","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DePaolis: Then I went back to, so I started with the class of lawyers that graduated in 1975 but I was a year, I graduated in 1976.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288#t=580.19,589.81"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288/transcript/92573/annotation/18","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Long: Okay. So you came back to Eugene to continue law school.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288#t=589.81,596.71"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288/transcript/92573/annotation/19","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DePaolis: Yes.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288#t=596.73,597.41"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288/transcript/92573/annotation/20","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Long: In that process of coming back, was there something that happened at that time that made you come to terms with your sexuality?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288#t=597.41,606.1"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288/transcript/92573/annotation/21","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DePaolis: Well, there was a, something of an awakening, but really one of the things that happened, one of maybe the biggest momentous things was the summer of 1975 I got a job as a law clerk at the United States Attorney's office in Portland. And the U.S. attorney at that time was a terrific guy named Sidney Lezak. And one day I went out to lunch with one of the other law clerks that kind of I liked.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288#t=606.11,639.45"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288/transcript/92573/annotation/22","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"She was really nice and friendly and we just went out to have lunch and we got talking obviously. And she told me she was a lesbian and I was just like, \"Really? Tell me more.\" It's just like somebody plugged in an electric cord. And so that was the beginning of the beginning. I went back to my third year of law school and I don't know if everybody, all the women there had the same experience or what, but it just seemed all of a sudden the idea of lesbianism was awake and alive.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288#t=640.32,676.22"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288/transcript/92573/annotation/23","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Raiskin: Did you see that on campus?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288#t=676.23,677.99"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288/transcript/92573/annotation/24","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DePaolis: I saw it at the law school.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288#t=678.03,679.62"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288/transcript/92573/annotation/25","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Raiskin: The law school.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288#t=679.64,679.78"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288/transcript/92573/annotation/26","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DePaolis: I saw it. I didn't really have much to do with the U of O campus other than just the law school. And we were in the old building over, well right down the street here on Kincaid. But it's just there were other people, there was another woman who had started in my class who also took a year off and was down in San Francisco and I don't even know what she was doing down there, but she came back an avowed lesbian and there was another woman, that over the following summer— Well, that was an interesting story.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288#t=679.8,715.14"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288/transcript/92573/annotation/27","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Her name was Sarah and she was one of the most beautiful women I've ever seen in my life. She was just striking and she had a boyfriend and then over the following— well I guess it was that summer. I don't remember the detail. I know that at some point she decided to shave her head during the summer. She came back and she had a boyfriend. She came back to law school with this shaped head and she was still one of the most beautiful women you'd ever see in your entire life. But her boyfriend freaked out. And not long after that it became apparent that she was a lesbian. And I was still figuring things out for that whole first term. But the two women who were already lesbians had already figured me out. And one day she came over to me in the coffee break room and just sat down on my lap and I was just like, \"Oh my God.\" You're just, it's like, \"Oh, okay.\" It was pretty funny.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288#t=715.15,773.3"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288/transcript/92573/annotation/28","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Raiskin: Can you remember how your feelings were like as you were figuring this out?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288#t=773.14,777.22"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288/transcript/92573/annotation/29","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DePaolis: Well, I was scared. Fear was what had kept me from figuring it out a lot earlier, but I started to be more and more aware. It's super excited. Just like— and embarrassed. When she sat down on my lap and I thought I was going to die. And then I came out, I started a relationship with someone that actually I was with for a number of years. And but I remember the day after we first slept together, walking around simultaneously, I couldn't wipe the smile off my face. It was— what it felt like, this is what it really, what it felt like.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288#t=777.22,816.87"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288/transcript/92573/annotation/30","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And it struck me at the time— It felt like the missing piece of the jigsaw puzzle that made the rest of my life make sense. I just like, \"Oh, okay, now I get it.\" And I'd look back at high school and I'd look back at college and I'd look back at these intense romantic friendships that I had and I just went, \"I get it.\" Yeah. It was just an unbelievable feeling of just becoming whole, becoming myself. So, the next morning after we had spent the night together, I walked around with this grin I could not wipe off my face and the simultaneous feeling that I had an L branded on my forehead and that everybody knew. It was pretty funny, really in retrospect.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288#t=816.89,870.24"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288/transcript/92573/annotation/31","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"But—","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288#t=870.25,870.52"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288/transcript/92573/annotation/32","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Raiskin: Well you concerned at all about your chosen profession—being a lesbian and a lawyer?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288#t=870.54,875.57"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288/transcript/92573/annotation/33","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DePaolis: Well, I didn't really think about that so much. When I started the job at Lane County Legal Aid, because that's when the real world comes in. And when I started that job, I didn't even know if I'd passed the bar yet. But I had made a conscious decision. My partner and I had moved in together at the beginning of the summer and I was nervous about that because it was a new relationship. We'd only been together about four or five months, three months, I don't know. And I was studying for the bar exam and so all I could think of was all, please let's not have some big breakup tonight before the bar exam.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288#t=875.58,910.56"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288/transcript/92573/annotation/34","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I started the job at Legal Aid and I had made a decision that I wasn't going to come out to anyone there because I didn't want that to be the first thing they knew about me. On the theory that if that was the first thing they knew about me, they would never be able to get past that or it would color everything else. I thought, I want them to get to know me as a person first. And then after they've decided they like me and I'm a good lawyer or whatever, they decide, then eventually I will be out to them and then they can factor that into whatever else.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288#t=913.33,949.23"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288/transcript/92573/annotation/35","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Raiskin: So, you were out at work at Legal Aid.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288#t=949.24,952.7"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288/transcript/92573/annotation/36","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DePaolis: Eventually. Yeah. After a while. I came out, let me remember. I remember coming out to my boss at a point when, I can't tell, I worked there ten years, I don't remember exactly what year this was, but there was a bill in the state legislature on a gay rights bill, so it could have been '77 or seventy something. They don't meet every year.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288#t=952.7,975.15"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288/transcript/92573/annotation/37","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Raiskin: So, was it amendment 51?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288#t=975.15,976.97"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288/transcript/92573/annotation/38","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DePaolis: I have no idea what the number of it was, but it was in the legislature to I think maybe ban employment discrimination or something. I don't remember. But I remember that I was thinking about testifying or writing a letter and I decided I needed to tell my boss who was this lovely man. It was nerve-wracking. I just telling my friends after I came out was like, “Hope this is going to be okay.\" Part of the reason I felt I needed to tell my boss was we'd had a weird thing happen at the office where one of the receptionists got a DUI, and somebody anonymously called the office to rat her out. And I'm thinking, \"What do they care? She's a receptionist. She answers the phone.\" It was weird. I thought, \"I'm going to tell him.\" And I told him, I said, \"There's something I need to tell you because I don't want you to hear it from somebody else and whatever.\" So I told him. And that's one of those out of body experiences, when you're telling an authority figure? You feel like you're over on the wall watching yourself and you feel you're just completely outside of your body. Like, \"Okay, I am a lesbian.\" And he just looked at me with this credibly indulgent fatherly smile and just said, \"Oh, Diane.\" And that was that. I don't know if anybody there cared, they certainly didn't make it obvious.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288#t=977.22,1073.96"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288/transcript/92573/annotation/39","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Raiskin: Did you talk to your brother?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288#t=1073.98,1075.01"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288/transcript/92573/annotation/40","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DePaolis: Well, my brother is a really interesting story. In hindsight, I know that my brother started having gay sexual experiences when he was in high school, when he was going to a boarding school, when we lived in England. And also that he was very badly bullied there.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288#t=1075.02,1094.52"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288/transcript/92573/annotation/41","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And he had been a fat kid too, but he lost a lot of weight. And then we came to southern California. He was just this skinny, handsome guy and a junior in high school. And so he had friends and he dated some and blah, blah, blah. And he went to Berkeley. And again, in hindsight, I know that in Berkeley, it was this, if you went to college in 1964. He was in Berkeley and then living in San Francisco in the '60's and the '70's and the early '80's and doing what a lot of gay men were doing. And I didn't really get it then. I was pretty naïve. He lived in the Castro. I went to visit him once and I was early, he was coming home from work and I was too early, so there was a bar. So I thought, \"Oh, this is cool. I'll just drop into this bar.\" And I drop into this bar. And I'm sitting there. And after a while I realized everyone in the bar is a man. And after a while I'm realizing they're all looking at me, wondering what I'm doing there. And I thought, \"Oh, Hmm.\" But I still didn't really put together my brother. Because you're, I don't know a lot of people.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288#t=1095.7,1168.35"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288/transcript/92573/annotation/42","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Raiskin: Is he older or younger than you?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288#t=1168.41,1169.35"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288/transcript/92573/annotation/43","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DePaolis: He's three years older.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288#t=1169.37,1170.09"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288/transcript/92573/annotation/44","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Raiskin: Three years older. Okay.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288#t=1170.09,1172.83"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288/transcript/92573/annotation/45","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DePaolis: In any case, when I came out my parents and my brother came to my law school graduation in June of 1976. And I— in a private moment, told my brother and then I said, by that time I was suspicious of him. And so I said, \"Tom,\" his name was Tom, \"I've kind of wondered if you might be gay, too.\" And he just went, \"Who? Me? No, Nope, no way.\" And so I went, \"Okay.” And the following Christmas I was down in San Francisco, stopped in, visit, stayed with him, visiting him and then he and I were going to drive to southern California to spend some time with our parents. And he was super tense and acting pretty crazy. And being a big primadonna, which he could do some time. It was just weird. He had some friends over and one of his friends took me aside in the kitchen and said, \"Tom wants me to tell you that he is gay and he can't bring himself to say it himself.\" And I said, \"Why did he deny it?\" And he said, \"He's too freaked out.\" And this guy said to him, but when he told us that you were gay, I said, \"What? Are you crazy? She's your ally.\" And he was just so freaked out about it. But we drove down to southern California and had this incredible conversation. And so we were allies completely. But I think it was really, it's a combination of the self-esteem issues, all the homophobia, the internalized homophobia. And I think I came to think that it was easier for women in some ways because we had feminism. So we had a philosophical structure we could fit into.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288#t=1172.85,1292.24"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288/transcript/92573/annotation/46","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And the men had amyl nitrate and bars. And years later he told me that he had always thought, believed that just men were just fun.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288#t=1292.37,1311.02"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288/transcript/92573/annotation/47","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"You had sex, blah, blah. He was a party animal and then someday he would just find the right woman and fall in love and he would just magically have a regular normal life. And I think he finally understood that that wasn't going to happen. But I'm thinking he—","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288#t=1311.02,1329.29"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288/transcript/92573/annotation/48","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Long: When did he die?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288#t=1329.31,1330.09"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288/transcript/92573/annotation/49","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DePaolis: He died in 1992 just a couple of years before they started having some of the drugs for AIDS.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288#t=1330.11,1337.05"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288/transcript/92573/annotation/50","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Raiskin: Did he visit you here in Eugene?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288#t=1337.19,1340.03"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288/transcript/92573/annotation/51","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DePaolis: He did a couple of times. And he visited me here in the end of 1991 when he was starting to get sick and he stayed for a few months and he really liked it here. And he was talking saying, \"I ought to move here.\" And he was looked at a house and he just, but then he started to get really sick. And so that was out of the question.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288#t=1340.04,1366.22"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288/transcript/92573/annotation/52","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Raiskin: Was he able to get help here from Acorn house or HIV Alliance?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288#t=1366.23,1372.16"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288/transcript/92573/annotation/53","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DePaolis: While he was here?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288#t=1372.16,1373.67"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288/transcript/92573/annotation/54","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Raiskin: Mm-hmm [affirmative].","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288#t=1373.69,1373.83"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288/transcript/92573/annotation/55","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DePaolis: No, he didn't. He was just starting to get sick, just starting to really have some symptoms. And so he went back, he lived in San Diego at that point. And so he went back there and then he started getting pretty sick. And then he was dead less than a year later. But there's, I'm not going to call it a happy ending exactly. But last year it was the twenty-fifth anniversary of his death and I've always donated to HIV Alliance just because they're the local folks. And so when I made a larger donation, because it was the twenty-fifth anniversary, and then my wife and I were over meeting with the director and the development people and they were thanking us and showing us around the new facility and they had some quilts up on the wall and they weren't AIDS program quilts. They were smaller, but a little bit like that. And this is, well, may not be exactly the story you're collecting for the lesbian history project. But a few years after he died, our niece came to visit us for all, she was in college and she did a college thing where you're supposed to do one of those short semesters and have a project. And so she came to Eugene and stayed with us and did that a couple of times and she said, \"I'd to make an AIDS quilt panel for your brother. How would you feel about that?\" And she'd never met him. And I said, \"I think that would be terrific. I actually have some ideas.\" And so I did the design and she put it all together and I was never able to send it in.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288#t=1373.68,1470.38"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288/transcript/92573/annotation/56","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Raiskin: Why?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288#t=1470.4,1473.17"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288/transcript/92573/annotation/57","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DePaolis: I don't know exactly why I just couldn't do it. I was just frozen on it. But I kept it and I knew exactly where it was. And when I saw those panels at HIV Alliance, Renee at one point said, \"We'd like to do something to honor your brother.\" And she and I had talked about, maybe we'll put a bench in the garden or something. And I said, \"How would you feel about displaying an AIDS quilt panel that never made it to the AIDS quilt?\" And they were thrilled. And so that's where it's hanging now. That made me feel really good.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288#t=1473.19,1511.64"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288/transcript/92573/annotation/58","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Long: Can you tell us about your experiences living in the lesbian community in Eugene?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288#t=1511.64,1523.12"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288/transcript/92573/annotation/59","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DePaolis: Okay. I came out in 1976, I was still in law school. I didn't really, know, hardly any lesbians. Just a couple. In fact, my partner then, her name was Mary Ann and we met a woman maybe that summer that, she's passed away now, and some other people may have mentioned her, because she was a pretty big figure, eventually. Her name was Laurie McClain. She was a financial adviser, socially responsible. We met her because she was dating this other woman that we knew that was in the law school. So we met her and thought she was an old time experienced lesbian, really knew her way around and blah blah. Years later I found out that she was brand new, didn't know what she was doing and she met us and thought we were these long time, knew what we were doing kind of people. There was a certain amount of that stuff going on where people didn't really know what the hell they were doing. And were figuring out the culture and I know my partner and I started, we were just, we were readers. We read everything we could find and get our hands on. And that was Gay American History, a book I've mentioned to you before, which was just unbelievable because everyone so hungry, so starved to learn things. And then all the murder mysteries. And there were reissues of some of the pulp stuff and there were, there was just all this stuff available to read.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288#t=1525.57,1618.6"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288/transcript/92573/annotation/60","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And so we'd just haunt the bookstore and just read everything.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288#t=1618.6,1626.46"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288/transcript/92573/annotation/61","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And then when the first little tiny glimpses of media stuff like a movie or an episode of some TV show that would have something in it, that was just everybody had to know that, see that everything.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288#t=1626.85,1647.31"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288/transcript/92573/annotation/62","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And I've often wondered why somebody doesn't put together a collection of sitcoms from the 1980s that we're, each one would have an episode. I remember the one on “Kate and Allie” really vividly, but then there was just always one here, one there, one there one there. Somebody should really put a compilation of all those together. There was a sneak preview of a movie that came to town, I think it was called Making Love. It was about two men and nobody had ever even heard of it. But somehow the word got out that it was gay themed. And so we went down there. There were eight people in the audience and it was all lesbians and gay men.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288#t=1647.51,1690.52"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288/transcript/92573/annotation/63","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"We knew and I'm sure the theater is going, \"What did we book?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288#t=1690.69,1693.88"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288/transcript/92573/annotation/64","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Why did they dump this on us?\" It was that kind of just hunger, need to know. Just wanting to know history and connections and all of that other stuff. And I was super interested in the history and the historical stuff and I read a lot of things about that.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288#t=1693.89,1712.82"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288/transcript/92573/annotation/65","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Long: I remember. It was so exciting when the, what's it called? The Ellen show? Ellen DeGeneres sitcom and then she came out and the episode—","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288#t=1712.82,1722.98"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288/transcript/92573/annotation/66","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DePaolis: Yes. That was pretty fun.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288#t=1722.98,1723.85"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288/transcript/92573/annotation/67","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Raiskin: And the show was canceled I guess. Because of—","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288#t=1723.87,1726.63"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288/transcript/92573/annotation/68","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DePaolis: Well they did it for a while with her as an out lesbian and it just, I don't know if it wasn't working or the tension wasn't there anymore. There's so many, sitcoms run on a certain amount of tension. It's interesting. I used to watch these sitcoms when I was in high school and stuff and there was always this, they'd have the male lead and a female lead and they weren't together yet. And there was this romantic tension. In the movies, once the romantic tension is resolved, movie is over. So you don't have to worry about what happens next and who gets mad because somebody's didn't dry the dishes. But in the television show they would finally, with all this pressure, all this romantic tension, then they'd finally get them together and then they'd try to do another year of the show where they were a couple and it didn't work. It didn't work.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288#t=1726.63,1774.05"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288/transcript/92573/annotation/69","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Because being in a relationship is really different from than playing that little flirty game where you “will she, won't she.”","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288#t=1776.49,1782.28"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288/transcript/92573/annotation/70","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Raiskin: You mentioned the bookstore, you're referring to a Mother Kali's bookstore?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288#t=1782.51,1788.13"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288/transcript/92573/annotation/71","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DePaolis: I think so. In earlier incar— when I first went to Mother Kali's bookstore, it was on Blair Boulevard. In this little hole in the wall.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288#t=1788.14,1799.11"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288/transcript/92573/annotation/72","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Raiskin: Could you describe the bookstore and where it sat culturally for the community?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288#t=1799.12,1804.29"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288/transcript/92573/annotation/73","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DePaolis: Well, where it sat physically was in a quirky rundown part of town, although that's the trendy neighborhood now that I actually live in.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288#t=1804.31,1812.63"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288/transcript/92573/annotation/74","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"But, and it was tiny. And, I remember the first few times going, it was this paranoia about parking in front of it. Things in Eugene were different then. And it was a lot more paranoia and the paranoia people feel a lot of other places, but less so here now, but at the time you just kind of— And then there were all these degrees of being out. So, who you're out to, and that whole coming out process happens over and over and over again. So you, not exactly skulk into the bookstore, but there was this sense of who might actually be watching. And then finally it was like, \"Well dammit, I don't care.\" But it was a huge cultural center. That was where you could get the books, you didn’t have the internet, you weren't going to order everything from anything you wanted from Amazon or even find it at Barnes and Noble half the time. But, you have a lot more accessibility now, but of course you don't have as much stuff in a lot of ways. The niche has really changed. But at the time it was really exploded. And yeah, that was just the thing, that and the bar.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288#t=1815.27,1893.45"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288/transcript/92573/annotation/75","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Raiskin: Did they have cultural events at the bookstore? Or groups?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288#t=1894.16,1898.34"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288/transcript/92573/annotation/76","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DePaolis: I vaguely remember some readings and such, but I don't have real strong memories about that.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288#t=1898.5,1905.13"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288/transcript/92573/annotation/77","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Raiskin: So tell us about the bar.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288#t=1905.15,1906.13"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288/transcript/92573/annotation/78","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DePaolis: The bar was the Riviera Room, which was also a complete dive.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288#t=1907.11,1911.2"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288/transcript/92573/annotation/79","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And I had somebody at one point told me history about that, how the gays had moved around and weren't wanted when they went to the Riv Room. And the owner there was okay with that. But that was really a center of activity, whether you drank or not, but, just going down there, who's there, who you going to run into? And so it was just something you did every weekend it seemed. It wasn't a real big thing for my partner and I the first couple of years. But then we made a friend for whom it was a real big thing. And so then we just got into going there a lot and I learned how to play a lot better pool than I used to know how to play. You just went, danced, played pool, drank, drank too much or didn't, but, it just was a really big thing. And that's another thing that's really changed is those cultural centers and Mother Kali’s had morphed into different locations and was a really big thing, but just eventually not sustainable. And the Riviera went away. There was been a couple of other gay bars and mixed bars. But it's never really been the same kind of culture. Things change.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288#t=1912.74,1998.22"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288/transcript/92573/annotation/80","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Raiskin: What about softball?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288#t=1999.3,1999.81"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288/transcript/92573/annotation/81","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DePaolis: Softball. I started playing on a city league team in probably maybe 1977. I still play. That team that my partner and I started playing on was some other lawyers that we knew, was all straight women. But eventually over the years it morphed into an all lesbian team, which was sort of funny.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288#t=2000.55,2030.95"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288/transcript/92573/annotation/82","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Long: What was the name of the team?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288#t=2030.97,2031.27"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288/transcript/92573/annotation/83","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DePaolis: Well, it had a bunch of names because we’d have sponsors. We had this lawyer who had some business connections and so we'd have some of her client would sponsor us. We'd had a bunch of different names and it wasn't— there was an iconic lesbian team that I'm sure some people will tell you about, Peralandra. And this wasn't the iconic lesbian team, but it eventually all the players on the team were pretty much, maybe not all, but almost all were lesbians and that went along for years with assorted names. Until it finally folded, I don't know, five or six years ago and things just died down and I found another team to play on. I'm still playing.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288#t=2030.96,2074.19"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288/transcript/92573/annotation/84","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Raiskin: What's your position?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288#t=2074.21,2074.35"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288/transcript/92573/annotation/85","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DePaolis: I pitch. Slow pitch. Only now I'll have to armor up too because I don't need any line drives in the knee.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288#t=2074.35,2084.18"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288/transcript/92573/annotation/86","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Long: You must follow the UO softball team.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288#t=2084.19,2087.34"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288/transcript/92573/annotation/87","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DePaolis: I have season tickets. Yeah they've really been really fun. Yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288#t=2087.36,2092.09"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288/transcript/92573/annotation/88","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"That was another iconic thing was sports. The women's basketball team was this huge deal that the lesbian sort of discovered because my partner and I, the first women's basketball games we went to were played in the basement at Gerlinger in front of about fifty people and we might've been the only people in the stands that weren't parents or friends of the players. And then Bev Smith came to town and a lot of people started going to games.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288#t=2093.47,2121.03"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288/transcript/92573/annotation/89","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Raiskin: Tell us who's Bev Smith?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288#t=2121.19,2122.15"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288/transcript/92573/annotation/90","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DePaolis: Bev Smith is the best basketball player the University of Oregon has ever had and one of the best players in the history of the game. And she was early on, they didn't even, weren't even in the, the Oregon women weren't even part of the NCAA at that point. It was a whole different league for women's sports. And she was just incredibly all around good. And eventually later became the coach of the team for a while, but she was— every dyke in town was drooling their socks off over her. She was just really cute. She's eighteen, nineteen, twenty and everything and she's pretty shy. But she was really, really good.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288#t=2122.15,2159.99"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288/transcript/92573/annotation/91","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I'll tell you a funny story though, sort of about Bev Smith, but not really. Mary Ann and I had a next door neighbor and she had, out of all the dykes in Eugene who have crushes on Bev Smith, this woman had a crush the size of Texas. She was just beside herself.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288#t=2160.87,2175.43"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288/transcript/92573/annotation/92","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Mary Ann and I went away camping one summer, we were up in Canada and Bev Smith was from Canada and we were just kind of wandering around finding places to camp and here and there and all of a sudden we looked at the map and realized that we were only fifty miles from Salmon Arm, which is this tiny little town that Bev Smith was from. And so we cooked up, we both had a prankster minds. We cooked up this idea and we drove to Salmon Arm and bought a postcard of Salmon Arm and addressed it to our neighbor and wrote on like it was from Bev. And it was an innocuous postcard was just like, \"Hey Gail, just want you to know it's just been so great seeing you up in the stands and I really appreciate you coming to the games and looking forward to next year. Your friend Bev.\" And mailed it to her.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288#t=2175.43,2228.48"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288/transcript/92573/annotation/93","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And we came home and she said, well she went out, she had a mailbox and she went out to the mailbox and we got her. It was maybe only for a second and a half, but she was like, \"Oh, Oh!\" It can't be right. That was super fun.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288#t=2230.25,2246.6"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288/transcript/92573/annotation/94","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Raiskin: Did you ever tell Bev?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288#t=2247.08,2248.1"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288/transcript/92573/annotation/95","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DePaolis: I did tell Bev once. I don't think she thought it was as funny as I do because she's buttoned down and she's a really nice person, but she had some political fundraiser at her home. This was, I don't even remember when this was, but my wife and I were there and at one point I said, \"I've got to tell you this story.\" I just said, and she just looked embarrassed. But I still thought it was hilarious. I thought it was one of the funniest things I ever did.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288#t=2248.12,2279.07"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288/transcript/92573/annotation/96","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Long: How did you get to know her?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288#t=2279.62,2281.03"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288/transcript/92573/annotation/97","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DePaolis: Who?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288#t=2281.04,2281.93"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288/transcript/92573/annotation/98","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Long: Bev.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288#t=2281.94,2282.5"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288/transcript/92573/annotation/99","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DePaolis: Oh, we just sort of were told about this fundraiser. I didn't really know her. We've never socialized or anything. We were told about this fundraiser for a political candidate who is going to be there with somebody we supported. So we thought, \"Oh, that'd be interesting. Let's go see where she lives.\" She was this iconic figure.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288#t=2282.52,2299.66"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288/transcript/92573/annotation/100","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I don't think she wanted to be, I think she's very private. But, it was just, we went to this thing and then we were all just sitting around afterwards. But I think I embarrassed her.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288#t=2299.66,2310.49"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288/transcript/92573/annotation/101","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Raiskin: Well she stayed in Eugene after her coaching.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288#t=2310.5,2314.33"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288/transcript/92573/annotation/102","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DePaolis: Yeah. She likes it here, I'm sure. And she's done a really good job, I think with Kidsports and she's a really been a really good figure for that.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288#t=2314.34,2322.21"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288/transcript/92573/annotation/103","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Raiskin: So, can you describe for us what a typical weekend would be like?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288#t=2322.23,2328.97"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288/transcript/92573/annotation/104","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DePaolis: When?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288#t=2329.38,2330.41"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288/transcript/92573/annotation/105","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Raiskin: Say late '70's, early '80's.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288#t=2330.43,2333.83"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288/transcript/92573/annotation/106","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DePaolis: Late '70's, okay. Well, in town we almost always would go to the Riv, at least one night. I'd just go have a drink, see who was there, and leave again. There were, I'm trying to remember in the '70's because later, I think this was maybe in the late '80's and early '90's.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288#t=2333.97,2359.54"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288/transcript/92573/annotation/107","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"There were some women's dances that would get put on when there wasn't a bar really anymore. But you could dance at the Riv.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288#t=2359.54,2367.33"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288/transcript/92573/annotation/108","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"That was if you wanted to dance. There was that. Well, this isn't a typical weekend, but my partner then, and I used to have an anniversary party every year. We started having that a few years in and then it became this community event. We would invite maybe a 100 people and we'd have at least 200. It was a big party. It was a thing. In fact, my wife now told me once that she was miffed that she was never invited. And I said, \"I didn't know you, I would have.\" But she said she used to hear about it from other people. I guess it was kind of a big thing.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288#t=2367.5,2407.35"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288/transcript/92573/annotation/109","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Long: One thing I'm curious about is to know more about just in general what Eugene was like back in the late '70's and early '80's. Because there were not very many restaurants. How many movie theaters were in town? Was there a shopping center yet?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288#t=2407.71,2429.35"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288/transcript/92573/annotation/110","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DePaolis: Well, when I came here in '72 Valley River center was real new.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288#t=2429.37,2434.16"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288/transcript/92573/annotation/111","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Maybe it had been built in '70 or '71. It was really new and that was when the downtown retail started dying. They were putting in, for a long time in downtown Eugene there was this central mall that you couldn't drive through and they had put in, they'd made a lot of the streets one way and they'd blocked off and the whole central area, now where Kesey square is, was a mall that you couldn't drive through. There was a big, there was a big concrete fountain there. It was really ugly. People called it the tank trap.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288#t=2435.62,2474.77"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288/transcript/92573/annotation/112","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Long: So it was a pedestrian mall?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288#t=2476.57,2480.07"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288/transcript/92573/annotation/113","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DePaolis: It was a pedestrian mall, but there were stores still downtown.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288#t=2480.09,2483.42"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288/transcript/92573/annotation/114","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Sears was across the street from where the bus station is now. JC Penney's was over where there's Charnelton, maybe in Broadway, that area. There were some other big, there was at least one other big department store downtown. I can't remember which one.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288#t=2483.84,2501.43"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288/transcript/92573/annotation/115","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"There was an athletic supply and sporting goods store. Luby's—it's a guy who used to play minor league baseball who opened that store. And so downtown had been the retail center. When I came in 1972, they were still putting in parts of the mall. Now where the, I can't remember what the parking garage is that's on Willamette between Seventh and Eighth, but that was still an old retail block.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288#t=2501.43,2536.98"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288/transcript/92573/annotation/116","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"In fact, there was a Lane County commissioner named Archie Weinstein who was a real throwback strange guy. He had a second hand store there that was pretty well known. He was at, one of the stories about him was that he'd buy a box car of surplus army socks and they're all the same size and then he'd throw them in boxes labeled small, medium and large. That's the guy he was. And so all, everything was changing down there and they were still putting in parts of the mall and closing some of the streets and everyone thought this was going to be a really good idea. But then the Downtown retail core died because I guess people wanted to be able to drive by a store before they, although you can't do that at Valley River, either. But anyway, one by one, all those big retail stores left and then obviously now they've changed it back to streets you can drive through and so on. But Eugene had a much more of a small town feel then. And Springfield was really small and was totally blue collar and Springfield's really reinvented itself in a lot of ways. There weren't that many places, like Mazzi’s was a classic place to go. Pegasus Pizza didn't exist yet over the campus and there just weren't that many— it was just a really different feel to it. And then, the town got a lot a lot bigger. Well, I still pretend it's small, but—","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288#t=2537.28,2627.88"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288/transcript/92573/annotation/117","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Long: And then—","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288#t=2629.25,2630.1"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288/transcript/92573/annotation/118","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DePaolis: And the other thing that was different then was the economy. The Weyerhaeuser paper mill dumped its smell into the air a ton. I still remember how horrendously that smelled. You still had the grass seed farm burning wars and some really bad things, it was terrible accident on the freeway one day when there was just an unbelievable smoke that just really clogged everything up.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288#t=2630.12,2657.24"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288/transcript/92573/annotation/119","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Springfield, well you had a lot of logging, obviously still going on and then that started to die down in the '80's. But Springfield was considered to be just an absolutely redneck dangerous town for anybody a little different.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288#t=2660.01,2676.48"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288/transcript/92573/annotation/120","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Long: What about the highways? Was I-105 in and the Beltline?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288#t=2678.26,2681.29"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288/transcript/92573/annotation/121","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DePaolis: I think 105 was in or the Beltline? But I didn't drive around the outskirts much. I really dealt with the university and I live pretty close to the university. And so as you just tended to deal with a core area. My partner and I went camping a lot, but we didn't really, it wasn't right around here. But the towns really— Things have really changed. The logging, that whole industry went away, they've stopped the burning. The university hadn't expanded as much. Obviously, you didn't have all of the new buildings that the university has. Springfield and Eugene was a really, the town and gown thing. It was just this whole thing that Eugene was very elitist and Springfield was totally blue collar. And there's a lot more of a dichotomy at that point. I still remember going to a barbecue that they used to have in Springfield. They'd have barbecue chicken and everything was really good. My partner and I went and it was on a hot summer day and I was wearing a sleeveless shirt and I have a great horned owl tattooed on my upper arm and I realized after a while I noticed that people were, I was getting a lot of dirty looks. And at first I thought it was because we were two women and I finally thought, \"I think they think that's a spotted owl,\" which they despised because that, they blamed that for the loss of logging industry. Although there were a lot of factors in that.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288#t=2682.69,2788.85"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288/transcript/92573/annotation/122","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Raiskin: So these are also the same years as these recurring anti-gay bills and then anti-discrimination movements and—","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288#t=2789.68,2799.57"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288/transcript/92573/annotation/123","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DePaolis: Yeah. Oregon citizens Alliance.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288#t=2799.76,2802.06"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288/transcript/92573/annotation/124","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Raiskin: Oregon Citizens Alliance. And can you tell us about your memory of living through that and particularly as a lawyer who understands things about the legislature and nondiscrimination?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288#t=2802.06,2810.53"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288/transcript/92573/annotation/125","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DePaolis: Yeah. Parts of that were a complete nightmare. The OCA started out with an antiabortion, a statewide initiative.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288#t=2810.82,2825.6"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288/transcript/92573/annotation/126","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Raiskin: The Oregon citizens Alliance.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288#t=2825.6,2826.16"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288/transcript/92573/annotation/127","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DePaolis: Oregon Citizens Alliance. Yeah. They were a strange group and it's a couple of their people were super strange. One of them, I can't remember, his name is Scott something?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288#t=2826.08,2838.97"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288/transcript/92573/annotation/128","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Raiskin: Scott Lively.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288#t=2838.99,2839.48"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288/transcript/92573/annotation/129","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DePaolis: Is he the guy who I ended up going to Uganda and persuading them to try to pass legislation that homosexuals were to get the death penalty? I think. Yeah, he was a real— And he wrote this whole book that the Nazis were all really homosexuals and that was the source of all their evil. This guy was obsessed. I'd love somebody to get inside his head someday and see what was going on for him. And then there was this other really unbelievable guy named Lon Mabon, who was the face of that. I think 1992 was the first anti-gay measure. I think. And it was good that that was the first one because it was the creepiest and the ugliest one. And so it exposed them to a lot of people who they really were because it essentially equated homosexuals with pedophiles, necrophiliacs and people who practice bestiality because they were all lumped together as the bad guys. And so the only good thing about that was that it was so extreme that an awful lot of people who might otherwise go, “Whoa, I'm not too crazy about the gays either” were like, \"No, wait, this is nuts.\" That was really good.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288#t=2839.5,2922.51"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288/transcript/92573/annotation/130","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"But it was terrifying and really divisive. And it was also that fall and that same, that election was the fall that my brother was dying.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288#t=2923.18,2935.37"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288/transcript/92573/annotation/131","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"That was just a nightmare for me all around. And I was not only working at Lane County Legal Aid [actually, was working in private practice at this time], but I was teaching a class at the law school in practical lawyering skills. And I was flying down to southern California to try and see my brother who was in the hospital for four months. And in fact, my partner and I got absentee ballots because we were afraid we might get stuck down there.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288#t=2935.37,2964.6"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288/transcript/92573/annotation/132","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And we weren't going to miss that election. But that time was such a complete nightmare. And I know you're going to talk to my wife Nadia later, but, and she'll give you— she'll flesh this out for you more, but I'll just tell you briefly, she afterwards was invited to participate in a group led by a mediator that was some evangelical leaders and I think an OCA guy and activists from the gay community to see if they could have some dialogue to sort of find some humanity, and that was a really profound experience for her.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288#t=2964.6,3010.71"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288/transcript/92573/annotation/133","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I know she'll end up telling you a lot about that. But at one point the mediator took them all down to southern Oregon somewhere to a retreat or something and things got super intense and I know Nadia called me and I'm like, \"I will drive.\" This was three hours away. I said, \"I will drive down there and pick you up tonight if that's what you need, if you want to leave.\" And she decided to stick it out and eventually was glad. But one of the most profound moments that came out of that was when she broke down crying about the pain around these things. What the OCA had done. And one of these religious leaders was like the first time it had occurred to him that this stuff because it caused pain to real people. It was also, I think the first time it occurred to him that a gay or lesbian person might have ethics and morals. It's like he just didn't think that way and it was a change for him too.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288#t=3011.03,3069.05"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288/transcript/92573/annotation/134","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"There was a lot, but there were a lot of things going on legally. This is actually lead to a couple of funny stories. So, in the very early seventies they revamped the Oregon criminal code and they threw out a lot of the law against gay sex. It was against the law to have, whether you were gay or straight, it was against the law to have oral or anal sex. It was a crime. And so they eliminated that and cleaned up a lot of other stuff. But one law they did not eliminate was a law that forbade soliciting oral or anal sex. Now, there was a law that said you could not solicit so-called heterosexual sex if there was going to be money or something of value that was exchanged. That's prostitution law. But this law said you could not solicit anal or oral sex regardless, which meant that it was still against the law to ask somebody to do something that it was no longer against the law to do. So, the Eugene police for reasons they would have to be interviewed to find out, set up a sting in Alton Baker Park because they'd gotten some complaints by, I don't know who that at three or four o'clock in the morning, there were gay men in a parking lot who were soliciting and so they had their cutest cops put on tight pants, go walk around down there at 3:00 o'clock in the morning until they'd snag some guy who would ask them to do something or maybe just ask them to go home with him and they'd just extrapolate. They were issuing these tickets and these guys didn't want any publicity, so they were all pleading out to disorderly conduct instead of soliciting, whatever. I don't know what they called it— deviant sex I think was it. Soliciting deviant sex. Nobody wants that on their record.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288#t=3069.89,3207.23"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288/transcript/92573/annotation/135","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"A woman I know, an attorney who might not have been an attorney, I don't remember. Anyway, she was active and trying to deal with this. And so she was trying to find some guy who would be brave enough to take it to trial, because the idea was, you have to go to trial, and of course there'd be publicity and you get convicted and then you can appeal it and say, \"Hey, you can't make it against the law to ask somebody to do something that isn't against the law to do.\" But that's the only way you could do it. And of course you'd want it in appellate ruling because that would be state wide. You don't even want the trial judge to make that ruling.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288#t=3207.24,3249.5"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288/transcript/92573/annotation/136","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Although they could have.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288#t=3249.5,3250.07"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288/transcript/92573/annotation/137","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"She finally found a guy who was brave enough and then she found a local trial attorney who I would say up until that point in time, had absolutely zero interest in gay rights. But he was a fighter and believed in justice. She persuaded him to try the case. I went over one day to watch the Voir Dire where the lawyers interview the jury panel to make sure they're going to be fair and unbiased. And that was remarkable. Well first of all, I had never seen this before.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288#t=3251.63,3279.65"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288/transcript/92573/annotation/138","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"There were at least six people on the jury panel who said, not the whole panel, but the twelve that they seat then they questioned them.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288#t=3279.65,3286.86"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288/transcript/92573/annotation/139","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"There were at least six people who said, because the question was, the defense lawyer would say, \"If you knew nothing else about my client, except that he's a gay man, do you think he's more likely or less likely to tell the truth or are you neutral?\" Now, the right answer would be if you knew nothing else about anybody except some irrelevant fact like that, then you're like, \"Well I'm just neutral. I don't know.\" But there were six people who said, \"No, he'd be less likely to tell the truth.\" They were excused for cause, which is really unusual in a criminal trial because nobody ever admits that they're biased. Nobody ever says, \"Yeah, I'm a racist. I'm not going to be fair to this black guy.\" Nobody ever says, \"Oh no, I can’t be fair.\" Because everybody's invested in wanting to see themselves as a fair minded person or at least not admitting it publicly. There are all these people who said, \"I don't know, I think he'd be a liar.\" Absolutely. That would push me over the edge.” They were all excused for cause. That was pretty amazing right there. Then they're asking the more individualized questions were more tailored questions. The defense lawyer asks the group, he says, \"Well, my client is accused of soliciting sex. So, I don't know, maybe if any of you ever had an experience that or—\" Something. I don't remember exactly how he put it, but anyways, so this one old guy raises his hand. He said, \"Well, when I was a boy, we used to go swimming at a quarry or a pond or something.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288#t=3289.17,3385.13"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288/transcript/92573/annotation/140","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And there was a guy that hung around there and it was sort of known that he'd approach some of the boys and ask them to go with him or something like that.\" And so the lawyer says, \"Well, did that ever happened to you?\" And he said, \"No.\" And he said, \"Well how would you feel about that if that happened to you?\" And the guy said, \"Well I just figured if you didn't want to, you said no.\" I'm sitting there going, well you're not going to be on the jury as the prosecutors getting rid of you way too fair and sure enough, next round of challenges because you do, it's anonymous challenging.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288#t=3385.15,3419.58"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288/transcript/92573/annotation/141","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"It's done so that theoretically the jury can't tell which lawyer is challenging who. But you don't have to be overly bright to figure it out. But in any case, I know the order they go in. I knew it was the prosecutor and the other guy was called. Then then the, I think the D.A. was asking some questions and then this young woman raised her hand and said, \"Excuse me, can I ask a question?\" And I thought, \"Oh, this probably isn't going to be good.\" But the DA, you never want to look like you're being mean to somebody on the jury because then the other jurors side with that jury person. So, even though I'm sure he didn't want to, he said, \"Okay.\" And she said, \"So you mean to say that I could ask a guy to have sex and that would be okay, but it's against the law for him to ask a guy to have sex?\" And the D.A. turned bright red and he said, \"Well, the judge will instruct you on the law at the end of the trial.\" And I'm thinking to myself, \"No, he won't honey, because you're not going to be here at the end of the trial because you are gone, gone, gone.\" And yeah, she was the next challenge. And so what happened was this lawyer, Larry Gildea was his name, he did such a good job that the guy got acquitted. Which was not even what they wanted to have happen.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288#t=3419.58,3503.27"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288/transcript/92573/annotation/142","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Then they had to find another guy who was brave enough to go through a trial and they finally did and they lost and they appealed it, and the court of appeals said, \"You can't make it against the law to ask somebody to do something that's not against the law to do.\"","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288#t=3503.4,3520.1"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288/transcript/92573/annotation/143","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Raiskin: And what year was that?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288#t=3520.12,3524.7"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288/transcript/92573/annotation/144","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DePaolis: Well, this woman, Dana, I don't think she was admitted to the bar yet. I'm going to say maybe 1977, '78. Well, let me think. She was in Mary Ann's class, Mary Ann graduated in '78. It was probably '79, maybe early '79. Yeah, that was one of the most amazing— that and the Voir Dire was one of the most amazing things I ever saw. The Oregon Citizens Alliance, finally, what path? I can't remember exactly what happened now, but the result— What happened was that all the local communities started passing anti-gay laws. Veneta and Junction City and Springfield and all the little local communities started passing them. And the ACLU was challenging all that because there was going to be some bigger decision made.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288#t=3525.2,3586.61"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288/transcript/92573/annotation/145","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And I'm not good on the details right now, but the director of the ACLU, the Oregon ACLU, Dave Fidanque was and is a really good friend of mine. We went to college together. He'd had different volunteer lawyers and see, he asked me if I would handle, do the Junction City lawsuit.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288#t=3586.68,3608.08"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288/transcript/92573/annotation/146","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And it was pretty, a lot of it was boilerplate. What ended up happening was the cities were mostly settling because they didn't want to pay to litigate this. They didn't have the budget for all of that. And there was an argument that it needed to be a statewide decision and blah de blah. But before we got to that, there was an interesting situation in Junction City and this was the first lawsuit that I did as a volunteer for the ACLU where they had discovered that the law had passed in Junction City by two votes or something.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288#t=3608.08,3644.72"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288/transcript/92573/annotation/147","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"It was unbelievably tight and it was discovered that there was a, want to say Faith Center, but I don't want to slander them because it might not have been them, but there was a religious, there was a church that apparently had allowed, possibly encouraged, some of its members to use the church as an address to register to vote.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288#t=3645.2,3668.56"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288/transcript/92573/annotation/148","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And you can't do that. Since we were pretty sure how those church members had voted, there were three people or four people who were identified. And so there is a statute that allows you to challenge the outcome of an election. I don't remember a lot of the details. I think this was might have been in the early '90's. We challenged the election and that involved getting a couple of these people and pretty much proving that no, they didn't live there and that yes, they did vote for it. And anyway, that was sort of crazy.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288#t=3669.3,3711.28"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288/transcript/92573/annotation/149","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And then the OCA put it back on the ballot for Junction City. And this time, the anti OCA people decided that they were sick of spending their money and energy fighting this stuff when the outcomes were— Anyway, they just said, \"You know what, we're funneling all our energies into Habitat for Humanity right now.\" And so they didn't fight it and it passed big. And then the ACLU sued to overturn it on these other grounds and the city settled and voided it, which all the cities did. Veneta, Springfield, the other ones all ended up settling and voiding them out for the time being.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288#t=3711.28,3749.28"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288/transcript/92573/annotation/150","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"But, that voter fraud suit was unusual.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288#t=3749.29,3751.62"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288/transcript/92573/annotation/151","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Raiskin: Do you know what happened to Lon Mabon or Scott Lively?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288#t=3751.58,3757.41"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288/transcript/92573/annotation/152","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DePaolis: Scott Lively went after writing this book about the homosexual Nazis and that being the whole source of the Nazi thing. He ended up being really big in, involved in this African missionary thing where they got countries like Uganda to pass or to consider passing laws that would give the death penalty to homosexuals. I don't know what he did after that. And Lon Mabon, I did at one time know what happened to him. He's drifted on into something else.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288#t=3758.07,3789.37"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288/transcript/92573/annotation/153","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Raiskin: I think he was jailed for wanting another—","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288#t=3789.25,3790.88"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288/transcript/92573/annotation/154","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DePaolis: I can't remember now. He was a strange character too, because he had been a really liberal and hippie type person. And then I don't know if—","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288#t=3791.65,3802.97"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288/transcript/92573/annotation/155","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Raiskin: What was the motivation, do you think?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288#t=3803.15,3804.55"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288/transcript/92573/annotation/156","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DePaolis: Christianity, that was all the whole thing that they was their thing.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288#t=3804.56,3811.94"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288/transcript/92573/annotation/157","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Raiskin: So now we're in Eugene in the '90's.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288#t=3811.96,3817.23"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288/transcript/92573/annotation/158","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DePaolis: We already got to the '90's.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288#t=3817.37,3819.11"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288/transcript/92573/annotation/159","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Raiskin: You mentioned the drug scene.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288#t=3819.13,3822.63"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288/transcript/92573/annotation/160","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DePaolis: Yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288#t=3822.64,3823.47"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288/transcript/92573/annotation/161","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Raiskin: Can you tell us a little about that?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288#t=3823.49,3825.03"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288/transcript/92573/annotation/162","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DePaolis: Well, the '80's was a big cocaine scene. I can tell you that I certainly did my share and there were other things Quaaludes and other stuff and that was part of the bar scene and part of the just very licentious time period. I don't know, let's blame Ronald Reagan for that period. It was just sort of notorious. You'd go to the bar, you'd sneak into the bathroom with somebody, you'd do a couple of lines of coke and dance your feet off. Yeah. Some people got really hurt.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288#t=3825.05,3865.06"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288/transcript/92573/annotation/163","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"No question. And I'm a fortunate person that I don't have a super addictive personality and so eventually it's, \"No, this doesn't seem like a very good idea.\" But and there was heroin around too. I didn't know people, but I know Nadia had a roommate who was a heroin addict who died. I think that's just part of life to some extent.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288#t=3865.56,3891.45"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288/transcript/92573/annotation/164","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And I think drugs and gay people, my brother and his friends, I know they were super into amyl nitrate, poppers and his friends, I didn't even know what it was. And they offered some to me one afternoon when I came to his apartment and he had roommates that were home, but he wasn't home yet. And he said, \"Gee, have you ever done poppers?\" And I said, \"No,\" and I was very experimental then. It was a hoot, but I think you would get a heart attack. I don't know. But, I think there was just this licentiousness— there's also this freedom and this idea that we're finally out, we can do whatever we want. And we were all young then, too. You can do what you want if you don't do too much of it when you're young. Because, now I know I'd have a heart attack. But, a lot of people get over that. But, that stuff claimed a lot of people too because they didn't know how to say no finally or how to dial it down.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288#t=3891.47,3951.21"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288/transcript/92573/annotation/165","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Raiskin: Do you see any specific to the gay community in terms of drugs or you think it was just of the time, or?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288#t=3952.51,3959.83"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288/transcript/92573/annotation/166","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DePaolis: Well, I think there's multiple factors. There's no question it was of the time. I think that part of being gay is dealing with your own and everyone else's homophobia and self-esteem issues and drugs and alcohol are a place to hide or to just not feel it for a while. And gay life— obviously we all know stories of the ‘50s scene and all of that, and the bar was the only place you could find people, meet people and so on. I think that's part of it. I think the pain of being, feeling like you're such an outcast. I know that there's some pleasure in being an outcast. And there are people who are even nostalgic for the good old days when we were all secret club and you could just see somebody and you'd know, and there was a secret handshake or whatever. And I get that too, but then it's like, \"Yeah, but how do you feel about all those police raids and all the— Yeah.” There is some of that, but I don't know enough to know if the rates of alcohol and drug use are higher. It wouldn't particularly surprise me because I think there's so much psychological pain. There's so been so much hatred and fear. And then it becomes part of how you feel about yourself and that feeling that you have to hide and that you can't relax. And this is a place— the bar where you can have a few drinks and just relax. I saw a variation on that one time in the early '90's. Nadia and I did an Olivia cruise, a women's cruise up to Alaska with 800 of our closest friends and that's a small one now. And it was fun and we met some super interesting people, but one of the things we noticed was, when talking to people was that so many of these women, that was the only place where they could walk around on deck and hold hands where they could be themselves. And we didn't feel that way about Eugene because Eugene can be a bubble. And because we were more out and we didn't have to worry about a job or family, not that our families were in love with it, but we didn't have to worry about a lot of that stuff. And for a ton of these women, and you talk to them and you find the women that went to lots of these cruises and you'd say, \"What exactly?\" I know they have good entertainment but then they go to fun places, but it's got to be there anything else? And that's what it was about. It was about: Here I can be myself, here I can be open, I can relax, I can finally let my guard down. And that's what a huge part of that time was. Your guard was always up. I have a new doctor, what am I going to tell? I remember when Mary Ann got a yeast infection when she was still in law school. She went to the student health service and they said, \"Yeah, you have a yeast infection. Then the nurse is like— and so Mary Ann is like, \"Well, what about sex?\" And so the nurse says, \"Well, you'll probably be painful right now.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288#t=3959.85,4174.71"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288/transcript/92573/annotation/167","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"You probably should wait and then after that few days and you take the medication, ask your partner to wear a condom.\" And Mary Ann is like, \"What about a woman?\" And the nurse turned bright red, and said very professionally, \"Oh, well that's a very good question. And the doctor will discuss that with you.\" Every place you went. We went to buy insurance, renter's insurance, in the basement of Sears and Roebuck, which was on Tenth at the time. And it's like, \"Well, normally only one renter can have the insurance.\" And we finally actually somehow all figured out together that the woman agent was also a lesbian.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288#t=4174.71,4244.64"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288/transcript/92573/annotation/168","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"By the way, at this health center, the doctor who came in was at that time, married and subsequently came out as a lesbian. It's just over and over again. Now, a while back, Nadia and I were, I don't remember where we were. We were vacationing somewhere and we were renting a car and we said at the desk and we're like, we want to add a second driver and the guy says, \"Well, is there any special relationship?\" And actually I think he was gay. And when we said, \"We're married,\" and he goes, \"Oh, good.\" But in the '70's, in the '80's and the '90's, it's like, \"Who can I tell? How much can I say? What will happen? “And so that coming out process is over and over and over. Everybody you meet, everybody you talk to.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288#t=4245.51,4303.1"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288/transcript/92573/annotation/169","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And it's just such a big thing. I had a conversation with a law professor. Well, I wasn't in law school anymore, but and he was a nice guy and I like this guy, but he just kind of, he said, \"Well, I get it and blah, blah, blah. But I just don't see why you have to tell everybody. It's just private, so you just don't have to tell everybody.\" And I said, \"Fred, every Monday morning when you go to law school and you have your first class and everybody's rolling in and uncapping their coffees and whatever, and you say, 'It's a pretty bad weather today. But I had a really nice weekend.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288#t=4303.64,4346.24"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288/transcript/92573/annotation/170","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"My wife and I went to the coast and blah, blah blah.'\" And I said, \"You just came out to your class as a heterosexual.\" And to his credit he went, \"Oh.\" And he got it. I said, \"It's just casual.\" When Nadia and I got married finally, I just took a lot of pleasure in anytime I was in any casual conversation with the most casual or there's somebody standing next to me in the supermarket line and it's like, \"Oh yeah, my wife and I like that brand too.\" Because I thought that's exactly what straight people do. They say it is all the time. It's just normal. Well, this is normal to me. That was funny.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288#t=4346.24,4388.01"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288/transcript/92573/annotation/171","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Long: Did they have any negative reactions when you would say something like that in a casual way?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288#t=4388.03,4392.08"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288/transcript/92573/annotation/172","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DePaolis: No. By the time we were married it was, it wasn't 1970 anymore.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288#t=4392.09,4399.38"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288/transcript/92573/annotation/173","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Raiskin: Yeah. How was marriage equality roller coaster for you?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288#t=4400.86,4403.14"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288/transcript/92573/annotation/174","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DePaolis: Well that was pretty interesting because we've done commitment ceremonies. We did this one with the city of Eugene. We did the thing in 2000—we've had a whole series of, we had so many anniversaries, we finally gave that up— it was crazy. But because we went to the March on Washington in 1993 and went through a mass commitment ceremony. So, in 2003 was it, or 2004 when Multnomah County decided that they were going to issue marriage licenses. You can thank my friend Dave Fidanque for that. And Dave says, \"I'm going to get you one so that you can get married in Eugene so we can show that you can use a marriage license anywhere.\" Well, I was actually out of town. And so there were some other couples that got married and they publicized the thing he wanted. But then I came back and we were still going to do it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288#t=4404.24,4460.16"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288/transcript/92573/annotation/175","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And so we had a week to figure out a wedding. What we decided to do a wedding, so we had a week to pull it together. We rented space at the Downtown Athletic Club and we invited a whole bunch of people and we had food arranged, we paid for a little dance floor. And then a bunch of my friends from Portland drove down. And all these people showed up that we barely knew. They just heard about it and thought, \"Yeah, I want to support this.\" And we ended up with 150 people at this wedding. And we did a chuppah— Nadia is Jewish, so we had a chuppah, that we made ourselves and we had, people, couples and then our niece at the corners and talked about what the symbolism of the chuppah was, which I didn't really realize, but it symbolizes the home that you're making together and the people that you have holding it up, the posts, are symbolizing how society, your friends and family support you in your home and your coupledom. And then I didn't realize how moved I was going to be by doing it, by just making this public promise. I was really— it was sweet—was really surprised. It was fun. And when we exited, we'd had music set up and so they was playing the Beatles, “All You Need is Love.” And then we went into a little room where we just recovered, ate something and got our blood sugar back up and our adrenaline down before we went back out to mingle. But we had had somebody recording it and they were still recording. They were out there recording and they showed us later that everybody started singing, “All You Need is Love.” It was just really unbelievably sweet. I knew that wasn't going to last because I knew that the Oregon Supreme court would say exactly what they said, which is, \"No, we're not doing this on a County by County basis.\"","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288#t=4460.18,4595.05"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288/transcript/92573/annotation/176","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Raiskin: So, your marriage was annulled.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288#t=4595.07,4597.48"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288/transcript/92573/annotation/177","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DePaolis: Well, it was what was voided. It was voided, for free. And they send us back our check. I know people who didn't cash their check.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288#t=4597.5,4605.26"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288/transcript/92573/annotation/178","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So they—","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288#t=4606.88,4607.11"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288/transcript/92573/annotation/179","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Long: What year was that?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288#t=4607.13,4607.91"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288/transcript/92573/annotation/180","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DePaolis: It was 2003 or 2004. I can't remember which.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288#t=4608.2,4612.16"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288/transcript/92573/annotation/181","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Long: 2004.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288#t=4612.18,4613.34"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288/transcript/92573/annotation/182","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DePaolis: Well, we still have a very nice picture of us under the chuppa with our friends holding the poles. So anyway, they gave us a free voiding.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288#t=4614.56,4624.01"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288/transcript/92573/annotation/183","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Raiskin: How did that feel?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288#t=4624.08,4625.19"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288/transcript/92573/annotation/184","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DePaolis: Well, I knew that was going to happen, so it didn't really make any difference. And we had exchanged rings long before that. And we'd been together I don't even can't even remember now. But seventeen or eighteen years by that point. That was just fun. It was fun to have all those people show up and to have a big party and to go through the ceremony and to make that— And I thought about that. That’s that public commitment. That was really moving and that was really fun. And then when it happened for real, when Judge McShane made his ruling in Oregon and I knew exactly how that was going to come out, too. Anyway, so the day his ruling was going to come out was like I don't know, Monday at noon or something. And so I had gone over there at about 11:30 to get in line for the marriage license. And I was not first; there were people who had been there for hours and we were fourth. I was fourth.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288#t=4625.21,4690.67"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288/transcript/92573/annotation/185","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Nadia couldn't come yet. But, so at— it was announced at noon and all, all these people around me had smart, I don't have a smart phone, but they had smart phones. And I knew they would. They all knew instantly and then the clerk's office said, whoever issues the licenses said, \"We're going to be closed for an hour.\" Well the reason they were closed for an hour, is they were waiting for the ruling and then they changed their form, the marriage license application, which used to have line for husband and wife. They changed it to party A and party B. And so at 1:00 o'clock they opened and Nadia had joined me by then and we got the license and then they had a— Basic Rights had something set up over at Davis's restaurant.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288#t=4690.68,4742.62"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288/transcript/92573/annotation/186","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"They had a bunch of ministers and people there to do the ceremonies and stuff. We went over there and two friends of ours, two very dear friends of ours had come to be with us and be our witnesses. And so because I said, \"We're getting married instantly.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288#t=4744.0,4760.97"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288/transcript/92573/annotation/187","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"We aren't having another party, I ain’t waitin’, I ain’t waitin’ for there to be a stay appealed for— “It was like, \"We're getting this done.\" Part of the reason from my point of view was that my social security is going to be a lot more comfortable than Nadia's and if I died first, I wanted her to be able to access it. Even though Oregon when the marriage thing in 2004 was undone by the Oregon Supreme Court, which was the correct ruling and then we had that horrible campaign. The marriage is only between a man and a woman.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288#t=4760.99,4799.77"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288/transcript/92573/annotation/188","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Long: That was Measure 36.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288#t=4800.58,4802.87"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288/transcript/92573/annotation/189","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DePaolis: Yeah, I don't remember the numbers. And then the Oregon legislature passed a law that basically said you can register for an Oregon domestic partnership and your rights and responsibilities are exactly the same as if you had gotten legally married. For state purposes, there was no distinction whatsoever. But not for federal purposes. And that was where the whole social security thing came in from my point of view. And just in terms of wanting to provide for my family.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288#t=4803.14,4836.02"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288/transcript/92573/annotation/190","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Raiskin: So when you were down at the courthouse at that time to get married, that was 2015.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288#t=4836.86,4842.47"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288/transcript/92573/annotation/191","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DePaolis: '14.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288#t=4842.49,4842.48"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288/transcript/92573/annotation/192","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Raiskin: '14.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288#t=4842.62,4843.74"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288/transcript/92573/annotation/193","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DePaolis: 2014.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288#t=4844.02,4845.1"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288/transcript/92573/annotation/194","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Long: Okay. It was before the national.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288#t=4845.1,4846.6"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288/transcript/92573/annotation/195","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Raiskin: Yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288#t=4846.6,4847.26"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288/transcript/92573/annotation/196","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DePaolis: Right. It was before the national decision. We went over to Davis' and then one of the judges showed up. It was Ilisa Rook-Ley, who I know. She just came over to help out. And I said, \"Oh good, because I don't want a religious person doing our ceremony, so you could do it.\" So, it was just this little, yup, I do. Yup. Those kind of— Not overly memorable, but it was cool. Then for Basic Rights, I was on a number of panels talking about what it means to be married. Because then I had to— Because I did a lot of family law.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288#t=4847.64,4885.6"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288/transcript/92573/annotation/197","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And so I had to tell people, I said, \"This isn't just moving in or this isn't— There's some serious rights that come with this and there's some very serious responsibilities that come with this. Now when you leave, you have to get divorced and you could be ordered to pay alimony, spousal support and you might have to divide property differently.\" There already been a lot of stuff around dividing property. And I did some of those cases and I had a really landmark case of a civil or not a, it wasn't a formal domestic partners, informal domestic partners. It wasn't a gay couple either, but the rules were the same. It was a man and a woman and there was this huge dispute when they parted ways over who owned what and who got to have this and that. And we got a ruling out of the Oregon Court of Appeal. Well, we won the trial, and then the woman, I represented the guy and then the woman appealed and we won the appeal. Well, we counter appealed, but I didn't think we'd win the counter appeal. We just did that to shake her up a little bit. But the court basically said, the whole thing with these domestic partnerships was, and they'd already been some law on that, that you go by the intent of the parties and if they have a written agreement, fine, you have their intent, but nobody ever has a written agreement. Then you have to figure out their implied intent by how they lived their lives. And there was all this stuff where, and there were some same sex cases too, where people buy a house together, but one of them doesn't have the down payment.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288#t=4886.35,4981.19"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288/transcript/92573/annotation/198","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Somebody puts in $20,000. Well, now they're breaking up. Well, do they get their twenty grand back? Will they get it back with interest? Do they get a percentage of the apprec— How does that work? Or you put the, or the other ones where you buy a house together, except that it's only in one person's name because the other person doesn't have very good credit, and then maybe you make the payments equally or maybe you don't. Maybe one person makes the payments and the other person remodels the bathroom and then you start getting into these things you have with marriage where the Oregon Courts finally in the '80's I think, or something said that the contributions of both spouses are deemed to be, are presumed to be equal regardless of the actual dollars. Because you had this thing where— and I'd get these cases— a guy comes in to get divorced and then I say, \"Your pension is going to be half hers.\" And then he says, “What do you mean? I got up and went to work every day.” And I said, \"Well, was she sitting home on the couch sleeping? What was she doing?\" \"Oh, well, she was raising the kids.\" \"Well, your pension is half hers.” That thing. So, the case I had with this unmarried man and woman expanded that the thoughts about how to divide things equally or more in line with the intent of unmarried couples. And that would have been applied the same to unmarried gay couples, too. But when marriage law passed, then I started doing these little talks and go, \"This is a bigger deal.\" Better, worse. I don't know. It's just is. It just is what it is. And I said marriage is a contract and nobody thinks about the terms of the contract until they get divorced. And so now we get to be part of the same mess.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288#t=4981.8,5093.1"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288/transcript/92573/annotation/199","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Long: And was that work that you did through Basic Rights Oregon?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288#t=5094.01,5097.58"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288/transcript/92573/annotation/200","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DePaolis: That was just volunteer speaking on speaker panels around Eugene and we had a presentation at the law school on different stuff. And so I just did— some of that as— so that was a later time period than what you're focusing on. But the change, I never in my entire life thought I would get married even when I thought I was straight, I didn't think I'd get married.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288#t=5097.59,5121.75"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288/transcript/92573/annotation/201","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Raiskin: I was just going to ask you, what do you think the biggest change in your life has been?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288#t=5122.56,5132.18"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288/transcript/92573/annotation/202","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DePaolis: Due to what?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288#t=5132.18,5133.09"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288/transcript/92573/annotation/203","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Raiskin: Even the change in the community or as a lesbian. What you were thinking in 1977 and looking back now.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288#t=5134.84,5141.71"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288/transcript/92573/annotation/204","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DePaolis: Yeah, in my life, because I don't care about joining the military or any of that. I can't say that being married has changed my life so much as the change in feeling, well, part of this is just getting older.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288#t=5141.72,5162.93"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288/transcript/92573/annotation/205","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"When you get older, you don't give a crap a lot what other people think. That's what might've just happened anyway. But in the '70's, things were just starting to change in a lot of ways. It was still a secret society. My partner then and I had a little signal we'd give each other— we used to play charades and charades, when you touch your ear, it's a cue for, it's sounds the word you want, sounds like the word I'm going to act out because I can't act out. I can't figure out how to do the one that I should be doing, but I'm going to do a word that sounds like it. Rhymes with usually. It started from that, because it was like, sounds like “trike,” or sounds like “bike” when we'd see somebody, when your gaydar would go off.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288#t=5162.93,5214.74"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288/transcript/92573/annotation/206","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"We'd see some woman walking down the street and we'd go like this. So, secret society, you know? I know that a lot of— The U.S. is a bubble and then the part of the U.S. we live in is a bubble. There are a lot of places in the United States and a ton of places in the world where it is super dangerous to be gay. That said, they're having conversations in some of those places that they weren't having in the '70's. And our little bubble, it's become so matter of fact.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288#t=5214.96,5260.94"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288/transcript/92573/annotation/207","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"We just saw Oklahoma in Ashland, the musical and they did Oklahoma this year with the two main characters are both women, and the secondary pair of lovers are both men. And it was really fun. They didn't change anything in the play except they changed the word. One word in one song. It's a song where one of the characters things, \"I'm just the girl who can't say no.\" Well, that got changed to “boy.” But the other ones didn't change any of the dialogue. I don't think they were allowed to by the people that will hold the rights to them. It was just— and we said afterwards, “God, that was fun.” It was so normalized. Totally normalized. And the role of Aunt Eller was played by a transgender woman. That was really fun, too. And, one of my old college friends met us there with his husband and he and I were really good friends in college and we dated for a while and we loved each other and trusted each other totally. And we're really good friends. And we had traveled together. There was no dating spark. And a few years later I figured out why I didn't have one. And eventually he figured out why he didn't have one. And so he was there with his husband of twenty-five years. And now I'm starting to twirl.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288#t=5263.24,5350.44"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288/transcript/92573/annotation/208","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Raiskin: What do you think about aging as a lesbian? Do you have any thoughts about that or how you and—","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288#t=5350.46,5355.64"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288/transcript/92573/annotation/209","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DePaolis: The process of aging takes up so much energy that aging as a lesbian is hardly even part of it. Just aging is a really interesting thing to do. Part of aging as a lesbian is that I really don't give a crap anymore about what people think. As long as I'm not somewhere where I think somebody's going to shoot me or beat me up. But otherwise it's like, \"Well, this really isn't my problem.\"","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288#t=5355.66,5381.73"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288/transcript/92573/annotation/210","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Raiskin: How do you feel about—","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288#t=5381.74,5384.27"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288/transcript/92573/annotation/211","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DePaolis: There's just a sense of just, and this is part of getting older, I hope for a lot of people is that you just like, \"I am who I am.\"","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288#t=5384.29,5389.99"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288/transcript/92573/annotation/212","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Raiskin: But you'll be dealing with institutions, health institutions or retirement homes—","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288#t=5389.99,5394.01"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288/transcript/92573/annotation/213","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DePaolis: Yeah. See again, it's part of they're just going to have to deal with me as I am. I am done. I never did a whole lot of hiding and I'm— If I have to go into a nursing home, then I am who I am. But I think that's a really big question for a lot of people who don't have the privileges I have or live in the community that I'm in. And that's a big fear for a lot of people. And I've heard about couples that can't share a room in a retirement facility or— I wouldn't want to be an aging lesbian in Arkansas, Mississippi. There's a lot of work still to be done in that realm. But around here, I could be really naive about this, but I don't see it as a really big issue.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288#t=5394.03,5450.46"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288/transcript/92573/annotation/214","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Raiskin: How do you plan to keep up community as people age?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288#t=5450.61,5455.88"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288/transcript/92573/annotation/215","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DePaolis: Well, Nadia is better at that than I am. I do keep up with friends, although surprisingly a lot of the people I keep up with, old friends are not lesbians. But, we know a lot of people. One of the things I notice is just the, the lack of lesbian or gay events, it seems like.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288#t=5457.32,5477.26"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288/transcript/92573/annotation/216","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"We're not that connected to the campus stuff and those people are fifty years younger than we are. There was a comedian that we, I'm remembering this, so, there was a comedian at the pool hall. It's over on Charnelton and— Lucky's. And it was somebody that we had seen years ago on TV in a gay sketch show on the logo channel.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288#t=5477.28,5506.5"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288/transcript/92573/annotation/217","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And we thought, \"Oh, this will be fun. Let's go see what she's like live.\" And the comedians were all gay and I don't know if that was just a thing that Lucky's ran into that one night or what, but it was really fun. And some of them were super good. You look around the audience and realize, you start to look around the audiences and realize you're the oldest people there, or among the oldest.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288#t=5506.96,5536.09"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288/transcript/92573/annotation/218","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"That's just really different. It's not necessarily off-putting. But the number of events, the spaces, and people, maybe that's just part of aging that people nest more people are in a lot of people in couples, they do things. You just socialize differently when you get older.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288#t=5536.11,5561.18"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288/transcript/92573/annotation/219","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"There isn't as much of a push to go out. You can't stay up as late, can't drink as much. It's just really different. Potlucks have lost their charm for me. Some of that's just aging. But it is a different thing community-wise. You have to put more effort into it. And I find one thing that happens, and again I think this is just part of aging, but people that you were in touch with on a regular basis because of a certain thing you share a certain event or something and then when that goes away the relationship goes away because that was the, it's not like you don't like each other. If you ran into each other on the street, you probably stop and talk for twenty minutes and then say, \"Oh, we should have lunch some time,\" but you won't probably.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288#t=5561.18,5610.58"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288/transcript/92573/annotation/220","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"It's like there's a certain amount of social glue just from going to certain activities, and work is a big piece of that, too. The number of people I've stayed in touch with now that I'm not working anymore. The number of people from that community is really small. You have to make adjustments like that. But I'm not sure that that has anything to do with being lesbian. But I think for some people it could if they don't reach out very well. So, I don't know.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288#t=5611.7,5641.75"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288/transcript/92573/annotation/221","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Long: When you look back on your life as a lesbian in Eugene, what would you consider the greatest joy of living in the lesbian community?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288#t=5642.75,5655.84"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288/transcript/92573/annotation/222","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DePaolis: Wow. It would've been a good question to tell me about ahead of time. The greatest joy? Well, I dearly love my spouse, so that would have to be my greatest joy because that's— we’ve been together 30 years and for all our— and we are as different as night and day, but, somehow we make that work. So I'm going to put that on the top of the list. I'm absolutely filled with joy that I can still hit a softball. A lot of what I think about when I look back on my, I had a young person that had been a client of mine once asked me if I had regrets and I said—I have made a lot of mistakes in my life though.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288#t=5656.22,5712.16"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288/transcript/92573/annotation/223","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Don't misunderstand me. I have made my share maybe more, I don't know, but a lot, but I don't know that I have regrets exactly. I regret if I've caused somebody pain or something like that, but in terms of each step and each thing leads to where you are. So I said, \"I'm afraid to change anything because then it might not have ended up the same and I feel pretty good about where things ended up.\" So, I can look back on my life and go, I've been really lucky to escape a lot of the hell that some people run into, whether it's just bad luck, car accident, health, whatever. And I feel good about the work that I've done and the contributions that I've made and I really like being retired. So, not really going to complain about anything. The thing about being a lesbian that's interesting is I first had a thought— I had it cross my mind. The earliest I can remember is when I was in high school. I know some people know when they're three or whatever, but I didn't. And I didn't know. It just occurred to me. And I went, \"Oh no, that's not happening. That would be really awful. As much as I feel depressed and an outcast and fat and blah, blah, blah, that would be absolute kiss of death.\" Okay. But it would come creeping back and then it goes, shoved that away. And then when it finally just was, it was like I said earlier, it was like, \"Okay, this is all right.\" And then things were hard at different times. Different stuff was hard. I was really lucky in so many ways. Nobody beat me up. I didn't get discriminated against. I only had the one employer and then I went into private practice. I've been really privileged in a lot of ways. But there was more than anything, it was just this sense of finding who I am. And so to the extent that that's true, if that's true for other people, and I imagine it is that they feel like they found who they are. And maybe there's a little, some things that aren't, the greatest about that, but it seems like that's the biggest thing in life anyways.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288#t=5712.24,5889.71"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288/transcript/92573/annotation/224","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Figuring out who you're supposed to be. Who you are meant to be.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288#t=5891.02,5894.1"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288/transcript/92573/annotation/225","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And if we knew then what we know now, but we don't ever. I don't ever get that. Anyway, I'm not going to complain.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288#t=5896.15,5906.62"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288/transcript/92573/annotation/226","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Long: Thank you so much.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288#t=5908.25,5909.28"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288/transcript/92573/annotation/227","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Raiskin: That was wonderful. Nice talking to you.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288#t=5909.29,5909.58"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288/transcript/92573/annotation/228","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"DePaolis: You're very welcome. It was fun.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288#t=5909.6,5910.68"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288/transcript/92573/annotation/229","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"[END OF INTERVIEW]","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288#t=5911.17,5911.28"}]},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288/transcript/92573","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["English [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56016/file/130288/transcript/92573/annotation/230","type":"Annotation","motivation":"subtitling","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/file_transcripts/associated_files/000/092/573/original/762_Coll520_do011_aligned.vtt?1776852348","format":"text/vtt","language":"en"},"target":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/file_transcripts/associated_files/000/092/573/original/762_Coll520_do011_aligned.vtt?1776852348"}]}]}]}