{"@context":"http://iiif.io/api/presentation/3/context.json","id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/iiif/hq3rv0dp9t/manifest","type":"Manifest","label":{"en":["Oral History Interview with Jill Sager"]},"logo":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/029/original/uo-logo-hires.png?1580744881","metadata":[{"label":{"en":["Identifier"]},"value":{"en":["Coll520_do052"]}},{"label":{"en":["Format"]},"value":{"en":["Digital Video File"]}},{"label":{"en":["Date"]},"value":{"en":["2018 August 29"]}},{"label":{"en":["Description"]},"value":{"en":["The Eugene Lesbian Oral History Project Collection consists of interviews of 83 people for the Eugene Lesbian Oral History Project, conducted by Professor Judith Raiskin and Curator Linda Long at the University of Oregon starting in the summer of 2018."]}},{"label":{"en":["Abstract"]},"value":{"en":["Jill was born in the Bronx in 1957. She was raised Jewish and went to secular Yiddish schools. Born with the left leg shorter than the other, Jill had surgery at age nine to correct the discrepancy, but the surgery failed, leaving her with a permanent disability that affects her mobility. She was diagnosed with scoliosis at age twelve. Every summer her family vacationed in Upstate New York in the \"Bungalow Colony.\" Jill was sexually attracted to girls at a young age and had a relationship at the Bungalow Colony. In high school, Jill fell in love with a girlfriend who rejected her. Jill went to therapy and her male counselor suggested she sleep with men. Jill started a relationship with a man and moved to San Francisco. In San Francisco, she became a part of the lesbian community. Jill went to college, graduated from San Francisco State University in 1984, and got involved with the Disability Rights Movement. She played with the Shooting Stars basketball team. She discusses the assassination of Harvey Milk, the Briggs Initiative, and Sally Gearhart. Jill moved to Oregon and fell in love with Susie Grimes. Jill says that Eugene was \"lesbian heaven.\" She talks about farming just outside Eugene. Jill started the Pride Celebration in Eugene, and worked with many other women on the celebration. Jill talks about working against Ballot Measure 9. She discusses changes in the lesbian community over time. Later, Jill fell in love with a man and they got married. It disturbed her that she instantly had privileges married to a man that she otherwise would not have had. In her new relationship, she was initially uncomfortable with other straight couples.\n\nKey terms: Abortion; AIDS (disease); Baleboostehs; Bars (Drinking establishments)  --  California -- San Francisco; Heterosexuality; Judaism; Lefton, Enid; OWL Farm; Parenting; People with disabilities -- civil rights -- United States; Phelps, Linda; Sheklow, Sally; Silvers, Vicki; WomanShare Collective."]}},{"label":{"en":["Language"]},"value":{"en":["English"]}},{"label":{"en":["Agent"]},"value":{"en":["Jill Sager (Interviewee)","Judith L. Raiskin (Interviewer)","Linda Long (Interviewer)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Rights Statement"]},"value":{"en":["In Copyright"]}},{"label":{"en":["Publisher"]},"value":{"en":["University of Oregon Libraries"]}},{"label":{"en":["Source Metadata URI"]},"value":{"en":["https://scua.uoregon.edu/repositories/2/archival_objects/607038"]}},{"label":{"en":["Type"]},"value":{"en":["Moving Image"]}}],"summary":{"en":["The Eugene Lesbian Oral History Project Collection consists of interviews of 83 people for the Eugene Lesbian Oral History Project, conducted by Professor Judith Raiskin and Curator Linda Long at the University of Oregon starting in the summer of 2018."]},"requiredStatement":{"label":{"en":["Attribution"]},"value":{"en":["In Copyright"]}},"provider":[{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/aboutus","type":"Agent","label":{"en":["University of Oregon Libraries"]},"homepage":[{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/","type":"Text","label":{"en":["University of Oregon Libraries"]},"format":"text/html"}],"logo":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/029/original/uo-logo-hires.png?1580744881","type":"Image"}]}],"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/collection_resource_files/thumbnails/000/130/380/small/Coll520_do052.jpg?1637320846","type":"Image","format":"image/jpeg"}],"items":[{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380","type":"Canvas","label":{"en":["Media File 1 of 1 - Coll520_do052.mp4"]},"duration":6680.72533,"width":640,"height":360,"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/collection_resource_files/thumbnails/000/130/380/small/Coll520_do052.jpg?1637320846","type":"Image","format":"image/jpeg"}],"items":[{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/content/1","type":"AnnotationPage","items":[{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/content/1/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"painting","body":{"id":"https://aviary-p-universityoforegonlibraries.s3.wasabisys.com/collection_resource_files/resource_files/000/130/380/original/Coll520_do052.mp4?1637320846","type":"Video","format":"video/mp4","duration":6680.72533,"width":640,"height":360},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380","metadata":[]}]}],"annotations":[{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["843_Coll520_do052_aligned [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Long: This interview is part of the Eugene Lesbian Oral History Project.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=5.08,9.4"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/2","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"The recordings will be made available through the University of Oregon Libraries’ Special Collections and University Archives. This is an oral history interview with Jill Sager on August 29, 2018, taking place in the University of Oregon Libraries’ recording studio in the Center for Media and Educational Technologies. The interviewers are Linda Long, Curator of Manuscripts in the UO Libraries’ Special Collections and University Archives, and Professor Judith Raiskin of the UO Department of Women's, Gender and Sexuality Studies. Jill, please let us know if you agree to be recorded for this project, and that you give your permission for the university to preserve and make available your recorded and transcribed interview.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=9.47,50.32"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/3","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Sager: Yes, I do.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=50.56,51.15"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/4","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Long: Thank you very much. Let's just begin with a pretty basic question.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=51.17,55.89"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/5","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Can you please tell us when and where you were born, and something about your early background?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=55.89,60.34"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/6","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Sager: Yeah. I was born in 1957 in the Bronx, New York City. Parents— my dad was a machinist, my mom a bookkeeper. Started working, again, when I was about in middle school. My background was I'm Jewish, very raised that way culturally, not that way religiously. I kind of denied religion early on. I always said to my mom, \"God, what is that?\" And she couldn't explain it, so I just thought, \"Well, I don't believe in it, forget it.\" But, we did go to Temple. My brother did get Bar Mitzvah'd because he was a boy. It wasn't that important for us girls. We didn't have a lot of money, so that was part of it, too. And but my sister and I were raised in secular Yiddish schools where we learned Yiddish instead of Hebrew, and the history more. And Bible study, which was really stories. And, you know, so not really religious.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=60.6,119.52"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/7","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"My life was a little different than everyone else in my family. I was born with a disability. I have one leg shorter than the other. And at age nine, my parents decided to— they did a surgery, decided to have a surgery done. Back then, it must— in the 1960s, the doctor actually said to me, \"Don't you want to wear high heels when you're a teenager?\" And, I was like, \"Yeah, sure.\" Anyway, we had the surgery to lengthen the left leg, but it didn't go as planned. It was actually kind of experimental. And so, the leg that was only like two and a half inches shorter, but that worked fine actually stopped working fine. The knee, the foot, a lot of nerve involvement. So, I ended up actually disabled. Ended up also with scoliosis at age twelve, which is very severe curvature of the back.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=121.0,172.66"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/8","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Basically— and so between the ages of nine, it was like 1966, nine and twelve, I was in and out of hospitals with a lot of different surgeries. I had homeschooling, and I ended up in what in New York was called health classes. Back then there was no mainstreaming of kids with disabilities. You were kind of segregated into classes with other disabled kids with all sorts of disabilities. But you were in a regular school, you're just kind of on your own.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=173.32,207.35"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/9","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Raiskin: Why would you not be in a regular classroom academically?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=207.55,210.21"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/10","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Sager: I was told— I asked my mom that question and I was told it had to do with liability back then. Yeah. That they wanted you— but they were protecting you or something from— yeah. I was wearing braces and crutches and a lot of those kids were too, but some of the kids in the class definitely had learning disabilities, and emotional disabilities and all that kind of stuff. And anyway, yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=210.35,235.6"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/11","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"That was definitely different that way. But I was liberated, went to regular junior high school. Of course, I was wearing a back brace, you know, not very normalized in terms of social things. But, every summer we went to a bungalow colony, which is what some working class Jews do to get out of the heat of the summer. And we went up to a bungalow colony and that's where I became friends with a group of gals. And Helaine and I became good friends. And at fourteen, that was my first experience. Helaine and I slept together. She lived in Brooklyn, I lived in the Bronx. We remained friends out of the summer time. And we were in bed one night, and we started touching each other. I thought it was pretty great. And that kind of changed my life, actually. Although I will backtrack to tell you that I was eleven years old when I said to a really good friend of mine, a girlfriend I was in elementary school that I would never have kids and never get married. And I knew that. I just, I knew that. By the end of high school—","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=237.49,310.65"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/12","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Raiskin: What was unappealing about that scenario to you?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=310.67,313.07"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/13","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Sager: Yeah, good question. Well, one thing that I remember being, even in second grade, I never— I know this sounds kind of apologizing.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=313.09,322.13"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/14","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I mean, it sounds kind of weird not to say this, but I found boys to be completely— like I didn't get them. I'm not going to say— and hate them, I just, I was like, \"What is their use?\" I mean, that's why I'm apologizing. It just feels a little bit anti-male.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=322.13,337.85"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/15","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And actually I was never even a separatist, so that's kind of funny.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=338.24,340.62"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/16","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"But I did feel like that emotionally I didn't get— it's not even just that I didn't get them, I didn't— like, what's the point? I just really— I mean, they seemed really dumb to me, and really stupid.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=340.62,352.3"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/17","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And really even in second grade I remember thinking they're so silly.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=352.3,355.59"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/18","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Long: What was thought when some of your friends, your female friends started to be attracted to boys?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=356.2,365.75"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/19","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Sager: Oh, I found it to be so boring. I was so bored by it. And I was never— I mean also too, I always looked like this. I've always been very, what, you know, you consider very feminine. And when I came out, my mom was like, \"But you're such a girl?\" You know, I'm like, \"Yeah, I'm a girl.\" But, I just still found that whole thing about men and boys and women being attracted to them, I just never got it, and I never really understood.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=365.76,393.66"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/20","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Raiskin: Did you have any negative understandings about lesbianism or homosexuality to deal with?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=393.66,399.27"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/21","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Sager: Yeah. I mean, when Helaine and I slept together, I remember waking up in the morning and feeling really like embarrassed. Her parents were in the kitchen, and I remember like going, \"Bye.\" They were like, \"You want to stay for breakfast?\" I'm like, \"No, bye.\" And I left, you know, got on the train, went back to the Bronx. And I remember feeling like, \"What was that?\" And, it's not like I was ready to call myself a lesbian, but Helaine at that age had lesbian friends who were much older. And I started hanging out with her and she let me know that she'd come out, and she was calling herself a lesbian.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=399.29,434.14"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/22","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And I met these older women, and I just, you know, I didn't have a negative or positive, I just didn't feel like I belonged there. I didn't really identify with those older women, but they were older.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=434.56,444.78"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/23","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Looking back, I'm not sure if it was because they were lesbian, or they were just older than I.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=445.07,448.13"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/24","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Raiskin: And, what did they look like, and how old were they? And, what was their scene?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=448.15,453.24"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/25","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Sager: They were what you think of now, what you'd call like pretty butch, wearing very man-tailored kind of clothes, and very short hair. And they didn't seem female to me at all, and— being fourteen. But I think I was more scared than anything else. I don't think— I don't remember feeling negative or positive, I think it was more like scared. Like this is like a different world.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=453.26,479.2"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/26","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Raiskin: How old were they?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=479.22,479.5"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/27","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Sager: I don't remember. You know, older. I was fourteen. They could have been twenty. I mean, looking back I'm thinking, \"Oh, they were fifty,\" but I think that's really not right. Helaine was only fourteen, I doubt they were that old.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=479.52,492.42"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/28","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Long: Would you feel okay describing to us how you felt when you were making love with your friend?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=492.44,497.36"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/29","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Sager: Oh my gosh. It was like, what was very— I remember it was very sensuous, and I really was completely turned on. And I remember feeling that it was okay. And that's interesting to me that I didn't— because she started. She started it, and I didn't feel like she should stop. I didn't feel like there was something wrong. At the time, I didn't have any embarrassment about it, which I'm kind of surprised by actually thinking about it, talking to you about it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=497.38,531.42"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/30","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"It just, in some ways, felt really natural, and it definitely felt good.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=532.42,535.88"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/31","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Sexually it was definitely I got turned on, and it was really great.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=536.79,539.55"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/32","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And what happened with Helaine was that, I ended up well what you would say now, like falling in love with her. I was like chasing her around like a little puppy dog. I mean, literally I'm looking back, that's how it was.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=540.42,552.0"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/33","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"The next summer we were together in the bungalow colony, because we didn't see each other that much during the year. I mean she lived all the way in Brooklyn, that's like a two-something hour train ride. But in the summer we got together again, I was like following her around, and she let me know that she wasn't interested. That she was pretty much like hands off kind of deal.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=553.65,571.47"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/34","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And, I remember feeling dejected, and hurt by it. Didn't put it all together in terms of— but again, I didn't feel bad about myself about any of it, but I do remember feeling really hurt by her.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=571.9,588.83"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/35","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Raiskin: Can you describe the bungalow colony?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=588.85,590.91"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/36","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Sager: Yeah. The bungalow colony is a— Oh, gosh. The bungalow colony I went to was working people from all over New York City. Some families from Staten Island, Brooklyn, Queens, Bronx. It was the kind of place where they were maybe trying to think we had maybe forty or fifty bungalows all in a row. It's like the hill started and they were just one next to each other. Two bungalows connected, and then space, and the two bungalows connected. And in between everybody's space was usually a barbecue. And the row of bungalows went all the way from down the hill all the way up, you know, up this hillside all the way up. And they were painted green and white.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=591.45,632.44"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/37","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"There was a big house where the owners of the bungalow colony lived. It was called Morris Deck's [Sondak’s] bungalow colony, and Morris and Shirley lived in the house. And then there was a little store where you could order things or pick up coffee and those kinds of things. It was also where the laundromat was. You'd leave your laundry and Shirley would call on the loudspeaker, you know, “Mrs. Sager, come get your laundry,\" you know, that kind of thing.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=633.19,659.56"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/38","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"It was a place— there was a pool. It was a place where women and kids were together all week because the men were going back into town, into the city to work. And then they'd come up on the weekend. So, all the cars disappeared during the week. The women who had a car up there were like golden. They were like, \"Take me to the—\" you know, so occasionally my mom would get a ride to a grocery, a real grocery store, not just ordering from Shirley.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=661.07,684.54"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/39","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Because Shirley would, of course, raise the prices, you know, add a little extra money onto what— because they were bringing in the food.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=685.05,691.31"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/40","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"There'd be like maybe two cars in the parking lot, and then on the weekend all the men would come. And during that time, like on Friday, all the women would have the hair up in curlers. This is like in the '60s, and you always knew the men were coming 'cause half their wives had their hair done, and they were finally putting on makeup. And I mean, the whole scene was— it was really great.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=693.39,711.69"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/41","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Long: Was it in Upstate New York?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=712.13,715.22"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/42","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Sager: Yeah. It was in Accord, New York, which is about an hour and a half, maybe outside of New York City.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=715.67,718.99"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/43","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Raiskin: It must have been nice for the mothers to have camaraderie during the week.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=719.28,723.02"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/44","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Sager: It was, I mean, talk about female-centric. It was totally that way.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=723.04,727.99"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/45","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And I never heard one woman complain that she missed her husband. Not one. They spent all week hanging out together at the pool, talking, gossiping, Mahjong. Almost every night, well, every night, pretty much different Mahjong games. The bungalow itself had— it was one room, a kitchen with a table, a tiny bathroom with— I mean, you could only be there one person. The toilet was on top of the sink, on top of the little metal shower, and then two bedrooms. My parents had one bedroom. I have an older sister by two years and a younger brother by five years who's gay. My brother's gay.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=728.3,766.4"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/46","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"My sister and I shared a room and my brother slept in the kitchen on a cot. So, it was really small. And then there, of course, was a little like a little screened-in porch that we didn't spend any time because the laundry was always hanging, drying. I mean, there was no place really to— We didn't sit there.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=767.26,782.47"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/47","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Raiskin: Was there a lake?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=782.49,783.43"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/48","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Sager: No, just a pool. Just, it was great. And there was something called the casino. And the bungalow colony back then, you know, they had people who would— like female impersonators, comedians, terrible bands. Singers would come and they would do the circuit, the bungalow colony circuit. Friday night the men would come up and then Saturday night everybody, all the adults would go into the casino with their alcohol. I mean, it was just like a stone's throw from the bungalows, it wasn't that far. And no kids were allowed in there, but we would of course sneak and look and stuff.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=783.44,821.6"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/49","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And then they'd be drinking, and they'd be entertained by this, whoever it was. Terrible act, usually. And, they would— and they had their friends, and so they would go in on food or whatever. It was a definite social kind of scene. And for kids it was really great because we would leave the bungalow in the morning and not come back until dinner. And you also made money during the summer, I babysat, you know, we take care of kids, little kids.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=821.63,850.41"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/50","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Yeah, it was—","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=852.18,852.54"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/51","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Raiskin: Did you get crushes on any other girls up there?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=853.17,855.76"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/52","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Sager: Yeah, there was Denise. But, at that age I even knew it was like— I was really— I'm just amazed at my sense of boundaries, because I just knew that I should keep that to myself. Even back then, I just kept all that to myself. It was hard not to. Girls were pretty, that's what I thought. And that's what I was attracted to. I was attracted to girls. I mean, pretty girls.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=855.77,888.84"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/53","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Raiskin: And how was high school for you?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=889.31,893.66"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/54","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Sager: Well, high school was— I played piano growing up, classical piano.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=893.67,898.67"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/55","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"You know, when you're in New York City, you take the tests for Bronx High School of Science, which was in the Bronx to see if you can get in, I was not smart enough to get in. But you have to take that test anyway. And your parents say you have to. And I did try to get into music and art on piano, and I did get in and that was a huge deal, because it got me out of the Bronx, which I was happy to do.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=899.76,922.09"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/56","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Long: Where was it?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=923.59,924.58"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/57","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Sager: The High School of Music and Arts is in Manhattan. Every day I'd be taking the train into Manhattan, and that to me was a lot of freedom. By that time I was no longer wearing braces or crutches or my back brace. I was walking with a limp. You know, I was still disabled, visibly disabled, but was really great to get into that school. But socially, because of that disability in junior high school and high school, I was definitely self-conscious. It was difficult for me.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=924.78,955.04"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/58","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I was taking the elevator in high school when everyone was walking the steps. I mean, I didn't have an easy time socially, but I'm a social person, so I was able to make friends. And made one friend in high school, well made a few friends, but one of my friends was Debbie Silberstein, and she and I hung out. Debbie was this beautiful, like milky white skin. She was like the Breck girl with dark hair. And her hair was like that, it was thick and it was long and it was beautiful. And she was beautiful, and she had boys always following her around. And she and I hung out and we would spend evenings together, and we'd go into Manhattan together at night. And I'd sleep at her house. Her parents were very MIA. They were missing in action. Her parents, I don't think I— I told her recently, I think I only met her mom once. I was like, they were never there.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=955.89,1011.69"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/59","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"We always hung out at her place, and we were always with these, she'd say we'd go do something, but some guy was always— some high school guy was always with her. And I remember always feeling like, \"Why are we with him?\" So, it was like, yeah, didn't really enjoy it as much. One day, she and I went to see that movie with— Oh, no I can't remember the name of it. With Susan Sarandon and Catherine Deneuve. It was with the vampire movie?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=1012.42,1046.77"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/60","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Long: Yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=1046.78,1047.1"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/61","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Sager: With David Bowie. Okay, this is what happens when you're sixty- one. I have like, can't remember. But anyway, probably pop out later. And we went to see that movie and we got home to her house, and she said— and we were about seventeen probably at that point. And probably juniors in high school I'm thinking. And she said to me, she goes, \"Do you ever sleep with a girl?\" And I said, \"Yeah, I have.\" And she immediately perked up and that night we got into bed together. And unlike other nights we had sex.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=1047.73,1075.86"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/62","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And she definitely let me know she was experimenting and all that kind of stuff. And I, of course, was— I fell in love with her, of course, I don't know. That was just me looking— now I'm saying, of course, back then, I don't know, I just did. And we slept together maybe two or three times. It wasn't that many times. We hung out a lot, but we maybe— because slept together maybe just two or three times.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=1077.19,1099.88"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/63","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And on one particular night, she drove me home. She drove— that was like amazing. I was like, \"Oh my gosh, she's so awesome.\" And, it was dark, and I was getting out of my— right about to get out of the car, and she looked at me and she said, \"You know you're sick?\" And I was like, \"What?\" And she goes, \"Because you sleep with girls.\" And that's exactly what she said.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=1100.36,1120.33"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/64","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And I to this day, do not remember what my reaction was. I don't remember if I said anything. I had a tendency to get angry, so I can't believe I didn't get angry, but I really don't remember what happened other than the fact that I opened the door and left. Got out of the car. And also too, Debbie was somebody who had— was really into therapy and counseling even at that age. And she was seeing a therapist.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=1121.23,1152.21"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/65","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And she had told me about a counselor. It was like a free thing for kids, I don't remember. It was way out in the Bronx somewhere.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=1152.68,1160.03"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/66","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And after she said that to me, I decided there must be something wrong with me. This is nineteen— we're talking like '73, '74. I decided to go see a counselor for this problem I was having, this interest I was having of girls. And so, I did. And the intake, I remember the intake, it was an intake by a woman. She might have been a social worker, I have no idea. And she asked me why I was there, and I said, \"Well, I'm interested in girls. I've been sleeping with girls, and that's my interest.\" I don't remember using the lesbian word, I don't know if I did. Maybe I did, but I don't know.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=1160.53,1202.49"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/67","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And because I remember in high school people would start talking about lesbianism a little bit, and bisexuality in Music and Art. And I remember a group of— I remember a conversation, a group of people talking, and I remember it kind of going around going, \"Wow, if you slept—\" And I remember actually saying, \"I think I'm bisexual.\" I remember saying that.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=1203.05,1222.09"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/68","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And so anyway, I'm talking to this woman, this intake. And she says to me, what— And I tell her that I'm interested in girls, and she goes, \"Well, who would you like to see, a male counselor or a woman counselor?\" And I said, \"A female counselor.\" And she said, \"No, I think you should see a male counselor.\" So, I ended up with a male counselor all year who, looking back was a total prick asshole. Although at the time I was just like, \"He must know what he's talking about.\" Even though I knew he didn't know what he was talking about. But, I stayed, I was like a captive audience.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=1222.79,1256.96"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/69","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And at one point he suggested that I sleep with a guy to see what I thought. I put an ad in the— so, I started to look— so anyway, my sister had friends who were— my sister was straight, and she had straight friends, and I was getting information about boys from them.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=1257.4,1275.12"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/70","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And I also had a girlfriend Shelley, who was a straight girlfriend who was very wild. She was adopted, she was basically a runaway, let me put it that way. And we met when we were twelve, because her adopted parents came to the bungalow colony and that's how I met her. We were twelve, you know, we wanted to run away to Woodstock together. We had all these adventures we were going to do, it never happened.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=1275.62,1306.38"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/71","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"But Shelley was an adventurous person, and she was ahead of her time sexually. She was fourteen sleeping with guys who were in their twenties in the Village, you know, it was during the '60s [‘70s].","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=1306.56,1317.39"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/72","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And she was very hot. And I hung out with her, and she was giving me a lot of information about guys. And she told me like, \"Well, you know, you can find guys in the back of the Village Voice.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=1319.8,1329.49"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/73","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"They're putting out ads,\" or I don't know, whatever.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=1329.49,1333.8"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/74","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I decided to look in the back of the Village Voice for this guy I was supposed to fuck or, figure out what I was. And I found— and by seventeen, okay, I should also say by seventeen, by my junior year in junior high school, I knew I was going to be leaving the Bronx when I turned eighteen, when I left high school. I wanted to go to California, and I wanted to go because of the TV show, the Mod Squad, which was three people, a woman, a black man, and a white man who were, I don't know, very cool. I don't remember what they did. I think they were detectives, but they were very cool and California looked really cool, and really like the land of the free where you could do anything, be anything. And that's where I wanted to be.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=1334.44,1379.59"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/75","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And, in my junior year of— between my junior and senior year of high school, I actually, I saved enough money from working as a cashier to go to California to live with an uncle who was living in San Francisco, the San Francisco Bay Area, on his sailboat. And I spent the summer there. And that's a whole other story of what happened, my adventures. But the point is, I knew that I was definitely going back to California.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=1380.06,1405.5"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/76","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"There I was looking in the Village Voice and there was an ad from this guy, Michael from California who was heading back to California. And now I'm in my senior year of high school actually when I saw that ad. And I'm thinking, \"Perfect, he's from California, I'm going to call this Michael up.\" And also my plan was to not be a virgin anymore. I was going to check this out.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=1406.43,1430.4"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/77","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"My sister knew that I was meeting this guy. Of course, I didn't tell my parents. I worked as a cashier in Manhattan on Ninety-Second Street and East End. And I had told my sister that I would let her know if Michael and I were going to hook up that night, I wouldn't come home. But I would, of course, tell her to tell mom I was staying with some friend, I don't remember who. And otherwise I'd be home.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=1433.92,1458.31"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/78","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So, the plan— obviously, I had gotten in touch with Michael, and he said, \"Yeah, come meet me.\" And so, Michael lived— this is Nineteen— what? 1974. Michael lived between Avenue C and B on, I think it was Seventh Street or Eighth Street or something like that.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=1459.12,1475.18"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/79","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"It's like alphabet city. And in New York in the '70s, New York was really a tough place to live in the '70s.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=1475.18,1482.12"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/80","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I mean the Bronx was burning, Manhattan and Times Square was like, you know, people were getting shot. I mean, it was definitely not like it is today with Disney. It was all porn. And Michael lived in one of the worst parts of Manhattan where there were shootings every day. It was very sketchy. And he's like, \"Yeah, come meet me down between like B and C on Seventh Street.\" I was like, \"Okay, fine.\" I did, and I remember feeling a little bit nervous, but I have to tell you back then maybe because I grew up in the Bronx, and grew up in Manhattan. I mean I was taking the trains when I was twelve, and I don't know, I didn't have a fear, this is my world. I didn't really— Yeah, I wasn't too concerned. I should have been concerned, I'm not saying that I was totally naive. I learned how to walk, I learned how to carry myself. My mom taught me early, I should say. I wasn't naïve, that's the point. I learned how to carry myself, how to check where I was. These are skills that you learned growing up in that city at the time. But, I met him down there, it was fine. And we went to— and I thought Michael, Michael had bushy hair like I did at the time. I actually had really bushy hair.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=1482.72,1553.52"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/81","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And he was wearing in a ponytail, like this kind of weird side ponytail. And he had this kind of weird kind of facial hair. Very tall guy, not bad looking at all. And he looked Puerto Rican, I thought he was Puerto Rican. And he was wearing this big green army jacket.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=1553.83,1568.77"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/82","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And, I was seventeen going on eighteen, and he was twenty something, twenty-two, twenty-three maybe. And anyway, we went to St. Mark's, and I remember we went to some sleazy diner or something. We were sitting there talking, and it turned out he was a Jew from Brooklyn. So, I was like, \"Okay, well, I'll fuck this guy.\" We went back to his place, and we had sex, which was horrific. And he was like, \"Oh, you've never done this?\" I don't even remember all the conversations, but it was obvious I hadn't done it, because what happens sexually when you're a virgin, you get your hymen broken. And I was in pain, and the whole thing was ridiculous. And I was like, \"This is weird,\" you know, whatever, it was sex with a guy.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=1568.79,1618.27"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/83","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"But the next morning I woke up, and he was taking a bath, and he was like, \"Can I see you again?\" And I'm like, \"Yeah, sure.\" So, it was nice being flattered, so that was cool. It was great. And then just an aside to this story, it turns out that Shelley had also, my friend Shelley who had told me about the Village Voice had also contacted him. And they also had a date.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=1618.63,1643.76"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/84","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And when I found that out, I thought, \"Oh, okay.\" Well, forget it, he's not going to be interested in me.” I mean, Shelley was very experienced and very hot, and all this kind of stuff. I mean, Shelley was my age, but she looked like she was about twenty-five. And anyway, Jack and I got together one more time. He said, \"No, no, I'm really interested in you.\" And that was it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=1644.89,1662.32"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/85","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"We ended up spending that year together, my high school year together. And actually having really good sex. The sex with him was great. Sex was great with him. I enjoyed it, he was really good at it. Even looking back, even to all the sex I've had, although there are definitely women just as good, but in terms of how many people are, he was good.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=1662.6,1691.42"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/86","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And, we did end up going to California at the end of the year together. My parents met him once right before we left town. He got a drive away car. We went with an Israeli, and my mother was like, \"If I could keep you here, I would.\" But, my relation with my parents was not great, obviously. And like a lot of people, I couldn't wait to get the hell out of there. Unlike a lot of kids today who are really happy living with their parents. Back then most of us, most of us couldn't wait to get the hell away from our parents. And so, we ended up in this drive away car going to California.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=1692.03,1730.35"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/87","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Long: Can I ask during that time with Michael, what did you do about—","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=1730.4,1737.54"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/88","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Raiskin: Contraception?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=1737.56,1737.92"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/89","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Long: Contraception.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=1737.92,1744.21"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/90","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Sager: Oh, okay. Well, I should also say Michael's name was actually Jack, and he had put a false name in.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=1744.46,1751.51"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/91","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Long: Oh, okay.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=1751.53,1752.11"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/92","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Raiskin: That’s probably why you said Jack.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=1752.13,1753.1"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/93","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Sager: Sorry, yeah. I should— yeah. His name is Jack. And I ended up getting a diaphragm, which worked great, except the one time I didn't use it, I got pregnant. I had an abortion at eighteen. I was already in San Francisco with him. And when Jack and I hit— so anyway, we went on this driveway car up to Canada, and the Israeli, I forget his name, and Jack fought constantly.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=1753.5,1779.82"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/94","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"The Israeli had gotten the drive away car actually. He basically threw Jack and I out of the car, we ended up in Brooklyn, back in Brooklyn, staying at Jack's parents’ house. And after a week of being there I was like, \"Well, we're going, you know, we got to go.\" Obviously I was tired of it. And Jack was, I should also let you know that Jack was a hustler. Jack was the kind of person that had like five different food stamp things under different names. And he was a shady character. Not dangerous-shady. Just a hustler.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=1783.05,1823.24"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/95","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"The whole time I was in Brooklyn, he was out hustling, trying to get money. I on the other end had money because I'd saved up money from my cashier job. But we didn't have enough money to go cross country or get on a plane. Didn't have that kind of money.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=1825.02,1837.76"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/96","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I might have had $500 in my pocket.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=1837.91,1839.56"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/97","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And so, I said to him, \"We need to go, and let's hitch.\" And he had hitched before, he was experienced in that, and he said, \"All right.\" So, we did, we got on a train, went down to Philadelphia, and spent the night in Philadelphia with people from the Black Panther Party who he was friends with. He was very involved. He had lived in San Francisco and was very involved with all that alternative political stuff that was going on. And that's why he was heading back.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=1840.12,1869.61"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/98","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"But anyway, we left and started hitching cross country, which is a whole other story. I'll take too long to go into, but we did hitch cross country. We ended up in San Francisco in August. We left in June, right after high school, ended up in San Francisco, probably about August. Ended up in the Haight-Ashbury, staying with some old friends of his.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=1870.4,1889.74"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/99","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And then, he and I got a little place together just to— we were taking care of an apartment of a friend in the Fillmore who wasn't there. It was rent free and that kind of thing. I was with Jack there for two weeks when I realized I didn't want to be with him, I didn't want to be staying with him or living with him.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=1890.33,1909.41"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/100","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I was going to be staying in a relationship with him, I just didn't want to live with him. Again, I don't know why, but I think he was getting on my nerves. I found a place with a couple of people— three guys, and a woman in a house-share in the Haight-Ashbury, and I was in heaven. And Jack and I remained lovers, and about I'd say, very shortly after moving into that house, Chris— there were two women, sorry. And Chris was one of the women. Well, I had a mad crush on Chris.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=1910.43,1946.15"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/101","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And, Chris was seeing a guy, but she and I ended up sleeping together. And I was totally in love with Chris. And meanwhile I'm seeing Jack, he's not living with us. And I'm starting to go to gay bars, and I'm still sleeping with Jack and still fucking Jack, but I'm heading to gay bars in San Francisco, and there were a lot of them back then.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=1947.06,1972.79"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/102","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And, Chris kept saying she was bisexual, and I was hurt every time her boyfriend came over. And I wasn't very emotionally connected to myself back then. I was pretty kind of screwed up emotionally, I think, in terms of being vulnerable and being able to talk my truth, and just a lot of things you should do when you're responsible adult, but I wasn't. I was responsible financially and all other ways, but with myself emotionally, not at all.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=1974.73,2001.56"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/103","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I was very passive-aggressive with Chris. Her boyfriend would come over and I'd get all like pouty and weird. And our relationship ended up with a huge blow up fight about her telling me that she had no idea I loved her because I'd never told her. And anyway, it was horrible. And I ended up moving out of that house.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=2002.59,2019.26"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/104","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=2020.35,2021.05"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/105","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Raiskin: What bars were you going to, do you remember?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=2021.01,2024.32"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/106","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Sager: Yeah. Let's see. There was Mauds, in the Haight, which was a great bar. There was A Little More, which was kind of near the freeway.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=2024.33,2035.16"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/107","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"That was a really fun bar. Peg’s Place, which was out in the Richmond. That was a great bar. I think those were the three mostly that we went to.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=2035.16,2045.22"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/108","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Oh, and then there was later on, when I— you know, much later on there was a male gay bar in the Haight-Ashbury that we would go to, which had mostly men, but a few of us lesbians we had a good time there. So, we would go. I don't know that we were always welcome there, but we would go anyway because they had really good dance music. They knew how to party, gay men know how to party. They knew how to party.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=2045.22,2072.46"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/109","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Raiskin: So, what year is this that you're in San Francisco?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=2072.47,2075.53"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/110","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Sager: We're talking from, let's see, I left high school in the ‘70s, so '75 all the way till I moved up to Eugene, Oregon, which was in the summer of 1989. Yeah. So, I did all of my adult growing up in San Francisco. I ended up coming out, I— Oh, so I came out, I must have been about twenty, twenty-one when I finally said, \"I'm a lesbian.\" And how I realized that was, I decided to see a therapist because, like I said, my life was emotionally in trauma with being heartbroken, and just, I didn't know which end was up. And I ended up going to see a counselor, a therapist who happened to be gay. Her name was Diane.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=2075.55,2125.42"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/111","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And I actually ended up seeing Diane on and off from the time of that time, which was right— you know, I might have been twenty, twenty-one all the way till I left San Francisco to move up to Oregon. She was fantastic, and I was lucky to find her. And she said to me, and I remember talking to her about my feelings about women and men, and really liking girls. And she said to me, she goes, \"You know, Jill,\" she goes, \"You can figure this out.\" She goes, \"Why don't you just give up girls? I mean, if you're confused, why don't you just think about that? You don't have to be with girls. If you really are concerned about this, and you feel like there's something wrong with you, and you're unsure and you were with Jack and you know, you should maybe, you know, be with men.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=2125.43,2171.04"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/112","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Why don't you just think about not being with girls?\" Well, so that night I did. I went home and I'm lying in bed and I'm thinking about never sleeping with another woman. And I just was hysterical crying. I'll never forget it. It was like, \"Okay, I'm going to get teary eyed now.\" And I thought, \"Shit, I'm a lesbian.\" And back then I will say, you know, I don't know, there wasn't a lot of talk about bisexuality or fluidity and all this kind of stuff, and I just didn't want to give up girls.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=2171.05,2202.3"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/113","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I said, \"I'm a dyke, I'm a lesbian.\" That's where I was having all my fun. By that time I had lesbian friends, I was going to gay bars. It just seemed like a no brainer. And Jack and I remained friends for a little while, and I remember though talking to him and saying, you know, by that time we were split up. But I remember talking to him and saying, \"So do you think I'm a lesbian?\" And he said, he goes, \"Well, I think you're definitely bisexual.\" He said that.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=2202.67,2226.71"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/114","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"But to me bisexuality meant that I'd be seeing men and boys, and I just wasn't interested. I never fell in love with Jack. Like I said, the sex was great, it wasn't a problem, but I never— all the time we were together, he was just an annoyance. I never fell in love with him, I never got attached to him. He was a friend in that way, but I just— it wasn't like— I didn't— yeah, I mean the other way like straight women talk about, guys or something. I just wasn't— I was falling in love with girls while I was— anyway.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=2227.71,2258.19"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/115","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Long: What did you do in San Francisco? What was your work in San Francisco?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=2258.66,2262.84"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/116","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Sager: You know, I started out doing various things. I worked in a health food store. I worked for the food service mostly. And then, I ended up— gosh, this is a lot of stuff. I mean, in terms of what happened.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=2262.86,2273.23"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/117","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I was living in San Francisco, ended up— I'm trying to think, after Chris moved to a house with a bunch of women, women only. One of them was gay. We started going to gay bars together. And I ended up meeting when I was about eighteen, nineteen— There's a reason I'm telling you this. I know you asked me what I was doing, was all food service, but there's a reason I'm kind of backtracking, well, not, but just taking you in this direction now.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=2274.18,2315.22"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/118","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I was about eighteen or nineteen. My sister was going to school at Buffalo University in women's studies. And back then there was a feminist bookstore in Buffalo that she was very involved with, my sister is straight and it was a real mix of straight women, and gay women. And I went to visit her. And on that visit I met— my sister's like two years older than me. And on that visit I met a dyke, Barb, who was seventeen. And, she and I started to hang out. And I was like— and anyway, we started to hang out, and she ended up moving to San Francisco. We didn't sleep together, but Barb and I had a lot of adventures together. A lot. And one of the adventures we had when Barb moved to San Francisco was— because I was living in San Francisco at that time, right? Was, she had some connection with the women down on the farms in southern Oregon. And OWL Farm is the only one I can remember.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=2316.43,2376.24"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/119","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"There was another one, you might remember the name, I don't remember. And she was like, \"Let's go.\" And I was like, \"Cool, let's go.\" But this time I'm out, you know, I'm a lesbian, I'm calling myself a lesbian. Maybe I was a little older. Anyway, sorry about the age and everything. But, okay, I was definitely out. I had already said I was a lesbian, so maybe I was twenty. I don't remember. And so, we go to southern Oregon, and we're not at OWL Farm, we're at the other one, which was maybe, she kept saying it's like lesser known or something, I don't know.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=2376.24,2402.55"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/120","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Long: WomanShare, maybe?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=2402.57,2403.38"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/121","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Sager: Yes, could have been WomanShare. And we're there and we're hanging out. And at night there was this beautiful bonfire, and women's faces all around and everything. And in ride three women on motorcycles. I was like, \"What the hell?\" And I fell in love with one of them, Julie, Julie Springwater. And she and I ended up traveling on the back of her motorcycle together and having— and backing up to— anyway. And so, she and I, and Barb ended up going to the Michigan Women's Music Festival together, the three of us— Barb— I don't remember how this all happened, honestly, but we ended up somehow back in Buffalo, and Barb stole— well, she borrowed her parent's car. And so, Barb had a car and Julie and I were on this motorcycle, and we all went to Michigan together.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=2403.4,2468.46"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/122","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Julie Springwater was a jeweler at that time. Some people might remember her because she did beautiful jewelry, Celtic designs that a lot of women owned, and bought. And she was going to be selling at Michigan. She sold at a lot of women's festivals. And so, she did that. It was my only time at Michigan. It was really fun, had a great time. Three of us hung out, and then we left.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=2470.55,2495.33"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/123","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And we were at a grocery store, and for some reason, I don't know why, Julie decided to rip off an avocado and some cheese, put it in— And Julie also, like Jack, wore this big green army jacket. She rips off stuff, she ends up putting in her pocket. She gets arrested, she’s overnight in jail. Barb is wearing— we’re just out of Michigan and Barb is this tall Jewish woman with beautiful like curly hair but tall. No bra, boobs and a T-shirt, just no sleeves with her boobs out there, said “Dyke.” And she starts arguing with the police and I'm five-two. And I'm like, literally, I remember trying to pull her off, like trying to get her attention to cut it out so that we wouldn't be arrested. And she— I was like, you know— and so, she finally calmed down and anyway, I had a banana and Barb and I ended up like etching in the banana. Like, \"Julie, I love you and don't worry. We're trying to figure out how to get you out.\" And we got her the banana somehow.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=2495.39,2568.05"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/124","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And, I remember calling my sister in Buffalo, my sister being really annoyed because I was always in some kind of trouble or something. It was like, \"Oh my God, Jill, really?\" And whatever.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=2568.66,2580.94"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/125","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"But anyway, the reason they were holding Julie was because her real name was Julie Foreman, and all the checks were to Julie Springwater. And she didn't have ID for Julie Springwater, and she had thousands of dollars on her from Michigan, from the festival.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=2580.95,2593.87"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/126","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"They did release her when they could finally figure out who she was because— and they let her go. And we just continued on our merry way to Boston. By that time I think Barb— we left Barb in Boston, yeah. Yeah, in Boston. And then Julie and I ended up— when we ditched Barb, I don't remember what happened there. But we ended up— Julie and I ended up on the motorcycle together going cross country. Looking back, it was really like, gosh, what was that movie with the men who went like cross country? Like, Oh gosh.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=2594.51,2631.85"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/127","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Long: Easy Rider?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=2631.87,2631.97"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/128","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Sager: Yes, it was really like Easy Rider. It was so cool, taking the back roads and being on this motorcycle, and being really free and just feeling like we have the whole, you know— it was great. And I had already decided at the point that I met Julie, Barb and I were hanging out in— Julie lived in Oakland by the way. And by the time we were all hanging out together, I had been working for the phone company by that time. And, I was doing split shifts, and it was all women. I was an operator. They don't have those anymore maybe, but an operator was, you know, you'd call and try to get information, like someone's phone number. And I was working for special services, which was working long distance, working for mobile phones. Back then, they were only in rich people's limousines, and on rich people's yachts, and also doing San Quentin calls from prisoners who would call, who would want to be connected to somebody else on the outside.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=2632.18,2698.03"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/129","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And, I realized shortly after having that job, even though it was the best job I've ever had with the best benefits, but I started looking at the women around me and I thought, \"Oh my gosh, this is kind of a dead end thing.\" And I decided to go back to college, or go to college, I should say, not go back, go to college. And they wouldn't give me split shifts there. They wouldn't change my shifts to go to college. So, I ended up quitting. I did end up going to college, and I did graduate from San Francisco State University.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=2698.8,2725.53"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/130","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Long: And when was that?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=2725.82,2726.21"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/131","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Sager: I probably, I graduated, I think in '84. Julie and I ended up together for a few years. I moved to Oakland, found a little place by myself.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=2726.23,2737.04"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/132","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"It was really cute in a really sketchy neighborhood near MacArthur Boulevard. It was really sketchy, but it was my home. It was great. I was all by myself. Julie lived close. And it was near the MacArthur BART station actually in North Oakland. And Julie lived in North Oakland. And we were together for a while until she dumped me for somebody else. She went out on me and dumped me and broke my heart, and painful.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=2737.05,2765.25"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/133","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And then I ended up meeting Lynn Shimizu, which back then we called her BF. She was a friend of mine. By that time I had gotten involved with the Disability Rights Movement. I had met some people, some friends in San Francisco. This woman Carrie who was disabled, she had MS, she was in a wheelchair. And they were pretty insistent that I was disabled too, and I was pretty insistent that I wasn't disabled because I was walking around, and these women were blind and they were deaf and they were in wheelchairs, and I'm like, \"I'm fine.\" But they were pretty insistent I was disabled. So, they dragged me and I was like, \"All right, whatever. What I've got to lose?\" They dragged me into a disability support group, which became a really great thing, actually. And a very political thing as well. Back then in San Francisco, there was a lot of political action going on, and I was involved in some of that. I mean, involved with the women's building, and the women's foundation and just, I don't know, different things. And there was, can't remember the name of it now.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=2765.33,2839.63"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/134","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"There was an all-female health clinic that I was involved with.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=2839.63,2844.35"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/135","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Raiskin: Berkeley Women's Health Collective?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=2844.31,2844.98"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/136","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Sager: It wasn't Berkeley, it was in San Francisco. And I'm trying to think of the name of it, but anyway, I can't remember.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=2845.08,2851.16"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/137","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Long: Can I ask, were you in San Francisco when Harvey Milk was shot?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=2851.18,2854.63"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/138","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Sager: Yes.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=2854.64,2855.16"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/139","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Long: What was that like?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=2855.44,2856.22"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/140","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Sager: That was horrible. And I was there for Jonestown, which happened really close. And I was— by that time when Harvey Milk was shot, I was actually living in Oakland in this little place.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=2856.39,2871.72"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/141","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Raiskin: Where most of the Jonestown people come from.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=2871.72,2874.21"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/142","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Sager: Yes. And I actually had gone to— I mean the whole— I'll talk to you about Harvey Milk in a minute. But the Jonestown thing— I actually went to Dolores Park for their big celebration right before they left, right before Jonestown left. And all those folks left. And the night that Harvey Milk— the day, whatever, that Harvey Milk was shot, Barb called me and she said, \"Jill, I'm going to San Francisco. I'm going to go—\" Barb was also living in the East Bay, can't remember where. And she says, \"I'm going into town, and I'm going to go, they're going to be protests and I'm going to go, do you want to go?\" And, I remember saying, \"No,\" because I was in college, and I was trying to be responsible, and I had work to do, I had things to do. I didn't go. And Barb called me and said it was really good I didn't go because she got out of the BART station and was immediately attacked by cops. She was beaten, she ended up showing me bruises on her legs. She goes, \"Jill, it's so good you didn't come. And I can't run, I mean, Barb ended up running and she ended up leaving and she was fine, except for being battered.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=2874.23,2942.48"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/143","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"She had a big bruise on her thigh, but I thought, \"Yeah, what was I going to do?\" I mean, I couldn't— anyway, so it was good I didn't go.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=2944.04,2950.57"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/144","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"But I will tell you that that period, I will never forget taking— because I would commute from Oakland back to San Francisco to go to San Francisco State. And that whole commute took a long time. And I'll never forget the feeling of being, not just depressed myself, but of the whole city had this feeling of just being under this cloud. It was horrible.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=2950.99,2973.67"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/145","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And it had gone from feeling, you know, I was somebody who was very involved with— we'd hang out in the Castro. For a time actually I lived in the Castro with a group of lesbians right on Eighteenth street, and a house that was very gay-friendly, obviously. And as a matter of fact, Lea DeLaria came to that house back then. Vicki Randle was in our life, you know, she was a conga player who played on the Tonight Show with Jay Leno.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=2974.13,3001.65"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/146","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I mean, it was just a different time. And, it was just this really fun and supportive, and we're out and we can be proud. And then, I remember going through the Castro after that happened taking the street car, and it was really horrible. It was really sad. It felt like— the best way to describe it is it felt like we had gotten the rug pulled out. As if someone had said like, \"No more.\" Like, \"You can't have this. You can't be this, you can't have this.\" As if we were being told, \"We're putting you back in your place. You've been too out, you've been too vocal.\" And it was really horrible. Yeah, it was a really bad time.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=3001.65,3067.47"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/147","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Raiskin: Do you remember the BriggsIinitiative?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=3067.49,3069.22"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/148","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Sager: Yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=3069.78,3070.42"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/149","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Raiskin: Was that the same time period?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=3071.2,3072.59"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/150","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Sager: Yeah, I was trying to remember that and whole Anita Bryant thing too. Yeah, I used to go to the gay pride events.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=3072.59,3078.95"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/151","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Long: Were you aware of Sally Gearhart who taught at San Francisco State?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=3078.96,3083.41"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/152","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Sager: Yeah. Sally Gearhart and I knew each other. We weren't friends, she was an older woman, and she was also a San Francisco State professor, and I was intimidated by her. But, Sally Gearhart was somebody who I knew because I went to San Francisco State. And I ended up contacting her, she— I got, you know, politicized disability in this kind of thing. And then something else that happened during that period, I got drafted into playing wheelchair basketball. And so, Sally Gearhart, we used to do on Bay Area Meteorites, that was the name of our team, our women's basketball team, which by the way was— I was going to say all lesbian. There might have been one or two women who weren't. Oh, okay, there were more, maybe we were half, fifty-fifty. But, a lot of lesbians in that against the Bay Area musicians.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=3083.43,3140.68"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/153","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"We're talking, you know, and Sally Gearhart, Teresa Trull. Oh my God, Carolyn Brandy. I mean, I have actually found stuff from that whole period because I did a lot of the publicity for it, and I have like paperwork with all their names. And Linda Tillery, and anyway. So, yeah, I did know Sally. And I also had started reading Tarot cards when I was about nineteen. Julie might have been about that age, forget the age, I can't remember. But when I was with Julie, she gave me a deck of Tarot cards. She was friends with— Oh my gosh, she became kind of a famous writer of spirituality. You would know her name, I can't think of it. Wow, she's still well known. I can't think of it. But anyway, Julie would read Tarot cards and she gave me its deck. And Sally Gearhart had written a feminist Tarot book, which I bought from her, which I still have. She was somebody who was definitely—","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=3142.22,3204.78"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/154","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Raiskin: And she stumped with Harvey Milk against the Briggs Initiative.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=3204.79,3208.78"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/155","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Sager: Oh yeah. Okay, that makes sense. Yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=3208.79,3213.8"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/156","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Raiskin: Can you say a little bit more about the disability rights work that was happening in Berkeley and San Francisco at that time?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=3213.81,3221.31"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/157","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Sager: Yeah. My degree in San Francisco State was in recreation therapy. I was kind of hitting it on a few different fronts, personally with friends who were disabled in this disability support group, and also working in the disability rights movement, and being very active back then. There was the 504 Initiative where disabled people took over. I think it was the federal building in San Francisco.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=3221.33,3254.82"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/158","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And I remember going to see what that was like. I wasn't protesting, but I remember going there. And those people like Judy Heumann and— God, I can't remember his name. Oh my gosh.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=3255.92,3271.21"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/159","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Ended up becoming people who I ended up knowing through work, through working for an organization called Bay Area Outreach and Recreation Program, BORP, which is still around today. That was in Berkeley. At the time it was being somewhat supported by the University of Berkeley.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=3273.98,3291.32"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/160","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And so, I got really involved with accessibility. And became pretty, I'd say militant about it in terms of really getting politicized about the fact that there wasn't access, physical access, or attitudinal access for people with disabilities. And at that point, a lot of my friends were disabled. Nancy Stern was somebody who was very involved with the women coffee houses in San Francisco where people like Linda Tillery would play, or— Oh my gosh, or Holly Near, and who was the one with the glasses? Meg Christian.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=3292.04,3335.89"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/161","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Anyway, she knew all those people, and she became a friend of mine. She was a woman who had had diabetes as a child and was blind. And she was in this disability support group with me.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=3337.3,3346.58"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/162","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I just got really politicized about it. And a group of us would— we started, people like Laura Rifkin who is still very active, you know, start making sure that like gay pride, like there was disabled seating, those kinds of things started to happen where we were putting our two cents in. Ended up hooking up, I can't remember how, with the first West coast women's music festival, Robin Tyler produced.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=3349.96,3380.15"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/163","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"By this time I was with BF Lynn Shimizu who we now know is Lynn Shimizu. And she was an electrician, and I ended up leading— oh, my God, Carrie and Freda, another woman who was not disabled to do accessibility for that event. And paying attention to all the details of accessibility. And Lynn actually, she and I went together because she did the electricity for the festival.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=3380.68,3405.78"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/164","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"That was part of it. You know, doing stuff in the women's community around accessibility. It's why also I ended up being on some boards to make sure things were accessible, and also through my work at Bay Area Outreach Recreation Program. Getting involved with— that was the straight community who was dealing with Center for Independent Living and those kinds of things. It was a radical time in terms of disability for sure. And Berkeley was definitely a hot bed for that.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=3407.38,3438.52"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/165","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Long: What year did you get your degree?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=3438.98,3440.15"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/166","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Sager: Eighty-four.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=3440.98,3441.67"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/167","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Raiskin: And what about your experience with the AIDS crisis?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=3442.59,3447.58"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/168","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Sager: You know, my experience with the AIDS crisis on a few levels— in San Francisco, you couldn't avoid it. I mean, I was a lesbian, I wasn't— didn't feel directly connected because in San Francisco I didn't have gay man friends. I didn't know them. I didn't feel personally connected, but it wasn't something you avoided.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=3447.59,3473.89"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/169","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"When the AIDS quilt was being put together, we were there supporting it through money, going to see it, going to all the viewings. Cleve Jones, Clive Jones, I don't remember his name. He was somebody who was just on the street, you know, you could talk to. I remember talking to him once, asking him about it. But I was more personally connected. My brother who came out, which is a whole other story, very kind of adorable, but anyway, he's out, he's gay.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=3474.77,3506.09"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/170","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And, he ended up having a partner Bob, who ended up dying of AIDS. That was personally— we were all personally affected by that. And I remember spending time with them on Fire Island in New York City because that's where they partied in the summer.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=3506.82,3524.24"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/171","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And I remember that feeling of he was there and then he wasn't there. You know, like a lot of men. My brother's obviously been more effected by that personally. He lost a lot of friends. But yeah, I didn't have that personal connection.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=3525.54,3540.56"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/172","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Raiskin: Can we move to you coming back to Oregon?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=3540.98,3545.8"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/173","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Sager: Yeah. Oregon, here I am. So, I was very involved playing wheelchair basketball, and I was on a team, the Bay Area Pirates who was opposing the Meteorites. And there was a woman on that team, Susie Grimes, who I had a mad crush on. And, oh my God.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=3545.81,3568.45"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/174","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And I had that crush on her for probably a year. She was involved with somebody, so, I didn't do anything about it. But I was telling everybody I knew I had this crush on her.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=3568.92,3578.88"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/175","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And, she was somebody who had a degree in adaptive recreation, and I was working at Bay Area Outreach Recreation program as a programmer. That's a organization supporting disabled, physically- only disabled people, adults at that time to do sports and high risk activities, you know, skiing and basketball and outings and whitewater rafting and all this stuff.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=3579.36,3601.27"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/176","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And we wanted to expand BORP to include kids. By that time I knew Susie, we were friends, and she was hired for that job. Lucky me. We did start seeing each other, according to Susie, at that time.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=3602.42,3618.52"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/177","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"This was also a period where we're in the '80s where a lot of lesbians were sleeping around. I wasn't that, I was kind of a traditional, I wasn't involved with that. I mean, I was with Lynn, you know, BF. She had slept around on me. It was like normal, but it hurt just the same. I mean, it was horrible, but it was kind of, I don't know, everyone was doing it, I wasn't doing it. But everyone was doing it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=3618.52,3643.9"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/178","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And Susie and her girlfriend were doing it. When Susie and I kind of started getting together, it was, \"Oh no, she knows, it's fine. It's not a big deal. She's already slept with women. And so that's fine, that we're hanging out.\" But Susie ended up dumping her girlfriend who she was living with for me. I had no guilt around that at all. Because I was a total bitch. No, I wanted Susie, what did I care about her girlfriend? And plus they'd already, she had already stepped out. [Laurie 01:01:18] had already stepped out on her. So, like guilt-free. I was like, \"Fine, I'll be your girlfriend.\" And so, I met Susie Grimes. Now, Susie Grimes, I mean, I started being in a relationship with Susie Grimes. Susie Grimes was somebody who was also disabled. Obviously, she's playing wheelchair basketball, but like me, she walked. And Susie Grimes had lived in Oregon in the '70s. She had gone from Ohio to Oregon.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=3646.04,3699.66"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/179","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I hope you interview her, you can hear her whole story. But she was somebody who had worked for the Hoedads and she in the late '70s, I believe, '79, I think it was, a matter of fact, I think it was '79. She ended up— she was picking pine cones with the Hoedads and she ended up falling from a tree seventy feet and broke her back, her legs, everything.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=3699.66,3725.62"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/180","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And, the reason I'm telling you this story is because, when it's 1979, during that period, I was telling you where I was traveling around with Julie and Barb. I ended up coming to Eugene, specifically with a woman, Cholena, who I had known in San Francisco and moved to Eugene, Oregon. And I came to Eugene, Oregon and I was single, so it was kind of in between. I must've been broken up from Julie. I was hanging out with Barb, was in between relationships, in between Lynn and Julie, I'm sure.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=3726.22,3759.79"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/181","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And I ended up coming to Cholena's house and it was like a lesbian heaven up here. And everybody knew each other. You know, San Francisco was a big city and it was lesbian heaven in a different way, but up here was like really tight. Like everybody knew each other, and there was going to be a big party like Saturday night, and there were going to be like a ton of lesbians, and it just felt like really homey and as opposed to San Francisco, you went to the bars, you didn't know a lot of people. You had to kind of introduce yourself, it was a totally different scene. And this was like, \"Oh my gosh, everyone's your friend. This is so cool.\" And we'd go to the party, and I'm there maybe a half hour and suddenly there's all this commotion, and there's all this stuff going on. And women are screaming, and they're crying. Well, Susie Grimes, who I didn't know at the time, had fallen from this tree, and because everybody knew everybody, everybody was flipped out about this.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=3760.23,3813.61"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/182","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And, I didn't know Susie Grimes, but the party was canceled. And I was not happy about that. I felt bad for all these women, but it was like ten degrees of separation. I didn't know her, I mean, it was horrible. But I was like, \"Oh, no party. Okay.\" So, my fantasy of sleeping with somebody or hooking up with somebody anyway, it didn't happen. But yeah, that was Susie Grimes, this horrible thing happened.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=3814.43,3837.33"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/183","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And there was— and the next morning I woke up, and it was really horrible. I mean, there was a dark cloud over the community, and I was, you know, an observer, but it was really sad. And I ended up leaving, I mean, there was really nothing to do. Cholena was depressed, everybody was just so bummed out. And I ended up going home. It just wasn't— it didn't feel right for me to stick around to party or to— it wasn't the right thing, anyway, I ended up leaving and going back to San Francisco.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=3838.46,3864.48"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/184","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"But here I am years later having a relationship with Susie. And we ended up playing wheelchair basketball together on the same team.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=3865.07,3873.5"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/185","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And Susie had told me very early on in our relationship that she wanted to move back to Eugene, Oregon. She had horses up here that were really important to her, and she kind of pegged me as a city girl and I said, \"You know, you don't know me that well yet.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=3875.87,3889.09"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/186","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I'm actually have fantasies of getting out here, farm life, something small.\" And so, we came up to Eugene, Oregon. I was in between jobs, in between so— I don't know why I had the summer off. I don't remember what was going on. I was already graduated from college, I don't know. Anyway, I had the summer off. I took the summer off, and we ended up— it was so easy back then, you just like disappear. I mean, I wish I had that life now. It was awesome. I don't even know why I had the whole summer off, but I did. It was fantastic. I mean, where was I living? Money. My parents did not support me, okay. I don't know, it was great.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=3889.13,3924.94"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/187","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"We ended up at a trailer, staying in Veneta at Eva’s trailer for the summer for about six weeks. And my plan was to see if I liked Eugene, Oregon, if I was going to move up here. Because although I liked Susie, we weren't together that long and I thought, \"I'm not just going to move for her. That could maybe not work out.\" I thought, I got to see if I like Eugene.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=3925.72,3947.52"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/188","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And I came up with her, and it was like it had been I remembered in '79. It was like lesbian heaven. Like it seemed like everybody knew each other, and softball games and stuff going on. And we were always hanging out with all these women, and everyone was so cool and friendly, and they were just so inviting. And so, they made me feel welcome right away. And I was here about four weeks and I was like, \"Yes, I am so going to move up to Eugene, Oregon with you. Absolutely.\" And okay, now I remember why I head off, because I was actually going to San Jose State to get my masters in recreation therapy. So, I did have the summer off. I decided to do that. Susie and I made a plan and we said, \"Okay, when I finish my degree, that would be in about two years, we'll move up to Eugene.\" And that October the earthquake happened, the big earthquake happened. And the Nimitz freeway that I was taking every day had collapsed. And I was in San Jose when the earthquake happened, it was really terrifying. I had an uncle who lived in San Jose, and it took ten minutes from San Jose state to get to him, and that night it took close to two hours.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=3948.41,4018.43"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/189","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And I got home, finally the next day I drove home, we were living in Berkeley at that time, Susie and I together. And I ended up getting back home to see her. And things were— it was traumatic, it was horrible. The earthquake changed a lot of the way that everyone lived in the Bay area because the freeways, and problems and traffic. But we were determined to stay, but I was having trouble. I was like, going down to San Jose State for school was kind of problematic for me. Plus, I had already figured out that the degree I wanted at that point was no longer about community service and rec therapy. It was really being pushed toward hospital and clinical settings, which I was not interested in.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=4019.22,4065.27"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/190","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And, I had been recruited actually to get my master's because of my involvement in community disability activism and recreation. But the degree was heading toward clinical. So all of that was just depressing me. And in April— about April, Susie and I were heading— we’re at an airport. We traveled a lot for wheelchair basketball with this women's team, which was so fantastic. And we'd go to different cities to play. And there were also women's national wheelchair basketball tournaments we'd go to.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=4065.92,4097.38"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/191","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And Susie and I were somewhere in the Midwest sitting at the airport waiting for our plane when the airport shook, and both of us kind of hit the floor. And we both realized that we had post- traumatic stress. It was just like a plane coming in that shook the terminal. And so, we were like, \"Okay, that's kind of weird.\" And very shortly after that I came home from a class at San Jose State, and Susie was home and we were in the dining room together. I'll never forget it, and we just looked at each other and we just lost it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=4097.79,4133.04"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/192","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"We both broke down crying, and we just said, \"Let's just go to Eugene now.\" And Susie owned her home, Susie had some money, and by that time, I had some money, too. And we ended up looking for a place, coming up here to look for a place to buy to live. Susie wanted a farm, she wanted her horses, we found a place. And by June of '89, we were moved up to this farm on Crow road. And it was really great. Susie had a lot of friends up here. Again, it was like, again, this whole Eugene close community, knit community.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=4133.16,4170.93"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/193","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Susie was determined to run this farm for her horses. It was fit— it was twenty-five acres, fifteen acres of it on pasture. She decided that she was going to grow the hay. Every year we had a hay party where women would come, and we would take the hay, pick up bales of hay and put them in the barn. And, I do the cooking and it was a scene. Susie is a real social— Susie is a very social person and there were always women at the farm. We had big parties, it was really a fun time, really fun time. And Barb and her girlfriend Ruby ended up moving up to Oregon, too. And very close to us, like twenty minutes down the road. So, I had Barb in my life, and anyway, it was really, it was great. It was really great.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=4171.87,4222.32"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/194","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Raiskin: Did you get involved with Adaptive Recreation here?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=4222.34,4224.9"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/195","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Sager: I did, but not in my usual way. It was 1990, they had just built a beautiful new building in Eugene for Adaptive Rec, and they were looking for a front office person. And I had made a decision when I moved to— I will tell you this. I made a decision when I moved to Oregon to get out of working in the disability rights movement.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=4224.92,4249.09"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/196","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Actually said that to myself. I started to realize that being a disabled person and doing that, it was like all I was doing. And I just didn't want that to be all of— I had other facets of my life. I was a musician, I read Tarot cards. I didn't just want to do that anymore.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=4249.22,4265.22"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/197","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I decided actually not to. As a matter of fact, Susan Sygall, I remember, asked me to be on the board of Mobility International, which is an international organization for disabled people. And I was like, \"No.\" Really, just was burnt out on being a disabled person, and doing all of that advocacy work. But, they were looking for a front office person. And so I applied for that, and I did get the job. Not because my secretarial skills were so great at the time, although they got really good. But because I knew disability, and that's not something you can teach somebody. I knew if someone called and they didn't quite speak clearly, I knew how to deal with that. You know, it wasn't a big deal if someone came to the counter and they were deaf. I knew who to refer, I mean, that's who they needed. And so I got the job. So, I worked for Adaptive Rec.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=4265.23,4314.79"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/198","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Long: And where was that? Where is that?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=4314.81,4317.43"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/199","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Sager: It's on Hilyard Street. It's still there. City of Eugene's Adaptive Recreation Program, which at the time they called— I think they called it “Specialized Rec” when I was hired there. Now it's called Adaptive Recreation. Yeah, I'm pretty sure it was called City of Eugene Specialized Recreation, it's what they called it back then in 1990 when I got the job.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=4317.59,4338.94"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/200","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Raiskin: Was Sue Harnley working there then?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=4338.95,4342.24"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/201","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Sager: Yes, I believe she was. Sue Harnley, Linda Phelps, it was like lesbian central. Sue Harnley, Linda Phelps and Molly Cole, who was not a lesbian, worked there, and I did too. And so, during that period, I was living up in Eugene a couple of years when I realized there was like no gay pride parade, no gay pride anything. I was kind of like, \"Well, that's kind of, why? I mean, all these women, there's like no gay pride, what's up with that?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=4342.32,4377.17"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/202","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And I had met a few gay men and up here it was different. Gay men seem to be really closeted. And I remember asking a gay man, I wasn't friends with gay men, but I kind of knew them peripherally. And I remember asking a gay man why that was. And at the time, and this is 1990, he said, \"Because a lot of gay men have professional—\" This is what he told me, \"A lot of gay men have professional jobs, and they can't be out in a real way.” That they need to stay closeted. So, although, yes, they have relationships with men, they were like invisible unlike—","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=4377.62,4410.16"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/203","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Long: As if women didn't have professional jobs?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=4410.18,4411.68"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/204","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Sager: Well, that's what they said. And it was interesting that— I mean, that was something I noticed coming from San Francisco. It seemed to me that women were out, that they weren't afraid to say that they were lesbian. They weren't afraid to say it, they weren't afraid to look it, they weren't afraid to— It seem like there was a lot of pride there. And not to say— I don't know what was going on underneath. Maybe some women were afraid of losing jobs. But, there was all that ballot measure. I mean there was all that horrible stuff going on where teachers were being threatened. It wasn't like anyone was safe.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=4411.7,4445.1"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/205","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And maybe it was only because I was a lesbian and I knew these lesbians, but it just seemed like there was a real community. There was a Jewish community, the Baleboostehs that I was involved with for a couple of years or a year. I mean, there was just this community sense, and I was used to San Francisco where there was this huge community sense with gay men. And I just didn't see it here. And, that's what he said to me.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=4445.54,4470.25"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/206","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"We ended up— so I ended up— so, the whole gay pride thing really for me, the reason I brought that up was really, it kind of had a woman focus. I wasn't even really thinking about gay men that much. And I asked four other women if they'd help put it on. And I don't remember everybody, but Vicki Silvers was one woman, Sally Sheklow was another woman. Yeah, Enid Lefton, myself and there was one other person. And I have their names, actually. I have a lot of material from that. And we did it. We put on a gay pride event.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=4473.23,4516.26"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/207","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Raiskin: And where was it?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=4516.28,4517.29"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/208","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Sager: The first one was at Hilyard Community Center, that's Specialized Recreation, Linda Phelps was like, \"Yeah, we can do that.\" I don't remember, we must've paid or something. But yeah, we did it there, it was in the park and we got a lot of auction things for silent auction so we could raise money. And it was really great, and it was really well attended. And the next year we did it at Alton Baker Park. And then the five of us were kind of burnt out, and we wanted more input. We wanted more help from the gay male community.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=4517.29,4551.14"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/209","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"They came, a lot of gay men came, and we wanted more help from them to put it on. By that time it was like, \"Hey, this can't just be women. You've got to get involved.\" We had a meeting with a group of gay men at a kind of near the Bi-Mart. Used to be where, I think it was a flower market for a while. Maybe now it's a gas station. There was a gay man in town who owned a restaurant over there. I can't remember the name of it. Maybe we had the meeting there, and there were quite a few gay men that came. And we talked about it and they were willing to take it over, and we were willing to give it to them. And I remember, I think we had maybe $600.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=4551.14,4589.9"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/210","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"We were $600 in the black, it was great. We gave it over to them, and it's been going ever since. There's not been a break, I don't know who's organizing it. I got out of the organizing of it, but it has been going ever since, which is really cool.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=4589.92,4603.75"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/211","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Long: Can you describe what you did to organize it? Who did you work with in the City of Eugene? That sort of thing?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=4603.77,4610.72"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/212","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Sager: You know, I have to say, what I did to organize it was I got really kick ass women who were great organizers. And so, we each took a piece of it, and we could run with it, and that was the beauty of it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=4610.74,4624.86"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/213","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"These women were so great. I think I remember doing the publicity for it, and doing kind of— I was like the umbrella, making sure that things were happening, and working with the City. Linda Phelps, mostly. It was her building. And so really we had to work through her to get permission and make sure things were on the up and up, and that kind of thing. I just had to work with her.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=4624.86,4645.86"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/214","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Long: So, there wasn't any push-back from the City?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=4645.88,4648.34"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/215","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Sager: No.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=4648.36,4649.33"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/216","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Long: Now, who was Linda Phelps?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=4649.34,4650.58"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/217","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Sager: Linda Phelps was the— I don't remember her— Supervisor, I think was her actual title. Supervisor of Hilyard Community Center.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=4650.87,4658.15"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/218","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Hilyard Community Center is where Adaptive Recreation was housed. That's the actual building. That's the name of the building.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=4658.71,4664.86"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/219","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"But, she was not just the head of Adaptive Recs, she was also the facility supervisor. She had jurisdiction of what was going on in that facility. Because City of Eugene rents their community centers out when it's not in use. So, it's not always being used for disabled people. I mean, anybody can rent it. She was in charge with both aspects.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=4664.88,4687.32"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/220","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Raiskin: So, what year are we? 19—","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=4688.59,4692.51"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/221","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Sager: Nineteen ninety-two.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=4692.47,4693.94"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/222","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Long: This coincided with the No one 9 campaign.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=4695.77,4699.55"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/223","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Sager: Yeah, that's right.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=4699.72,4700.18"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/224","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Long: Can you describe that to us?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=4700.2,4701.75"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/225","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Sager: That's right. Well, I remember doing— it's interesting because I found articles about that, about our connection to Pride and that, but I'm a little fuzzy. I remember doing canvassing, but I'm a little fuzzy on other aspects of it for myself, quite frankly. I remember I did canvassing in Thurston, and somebody came out, somebody said that they were being— I mean, not me personally, but we were all, you know, we were going to meet at a car at a certain time. And I remember a group that was canvassing came back and said that they were being threatened with somebody with a gun, like a shotgun, like, \"Get off my property.\" Somebody who was the head canvasser said, \"You know what? We need to just leave. This isn't safe.\" So, we ended up not— I know, it was really— Yeah. And I remember just— what do I remember about that time? I just remember voting no. I mean, it was just like, yeah, that period where it was like, \"How dare they?\"","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=4701.77,4766.97"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/226","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Long: My understanding is that, and you can correct me if I'm wrong, but that the first gay pride celebration coincided with the campaign.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=4766.99,4778.31"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/227","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Sager: Yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=4778.32,4779.18"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/228","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Long: That it was rolled up into a part of the No on 9 campaign, and it was an opportunity to celebrate being gay.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=4779.2,4786.72"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/229","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Sager: Good. Good to remember, I didn't remember that, but yes, that's true. Because I did come— yeah, last night in lieu of this, I did go back and I found a file. And yes, and my memory was I was like, \"Yeah, it was.\" Because it was actually an article, and the Register- Guard about it. So, your memory's better than mine, but that's exactly right. Is that why I did it? It could have been?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=4786.73,4805.01"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/230","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Raiskin: It seems like it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=4807.52,4808.76"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/231","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Sager: It seems like it probably was.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=4808.78,4809.57"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/232","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Raiskin: Your interest in Tarot and spirituality. Did you frequent Peralandra Bookstore?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=4809.59,4816.61"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/233","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Sager: Aha, I did.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=4816.62,4817.19"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/234","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Raiskin: What was your—","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=4817.21,4818.71"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/235","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Sager: I did. I wanted to get a job there, but it didn't happen. They didn't hire me.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=4818.76,4822.75"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/236","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Raiskin: Were your relationship with other people who were into women's spirituality?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=4822.76,4827.75"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/237","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Sager: Let's see, what was my relationship to that? I'm trying to think back. I didn't have— honestly, you know, this is really maybe weird to say, but I didn't have a lot of friends. I'm trying to think, I didn't have a lot of like “witchy” friends who were self-proclaimed witches and that kind of thing. And that all was going on. I was kind of like— I mean, that's my personal—","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=4828.3,4858.12"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/238","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Raiskin: Well, you were in Baleboostehs.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=4858.14,4858.45"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/239","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Sager: Yeah, I was in Baleboostehs, but that was like a Jewish spirituality, a little different. But you know, at that time there was a lot of like witch stuff going on, and I wasn't really involved with that. I did do a Tarot class once at Peralandra that was really well attended. It was really sweet. But I was kind of isolated in terms of my own spirituality. And part of that is that I was trying to understand what it was for myself during that period. It took me a long time actually, although I was doing Tarot and reading cards, it took me a long time to understand that there was a relationship between what I was doing, and my own spirituality. Like what did I believe?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=4858.63,4903.54"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/240","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And, that took me a long time to figure out. I was like way— I mean I was single.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=4904.07,4912.72"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/241","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I mean, Susie and I were broken up even when that happened, even though I was involved with a group. When Susie and I were together, I was involved with this woman, her name was Claudia Leone. She has died ever since. She was a straight woman who led spiritual groups on spirituality and Tarot, but a lot of just general— she was a channeler. But that was a real mixed group. There were some lesbians, but it was mostly straight women who went to that at her house. And that's kind of something that I was involved with. But in terms of lesbians and spirituality outside of Judaism, I wasn't really connected to that.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=4912.73,4953.19"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/242","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Raiskin: Can you describe Baleboostehs?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=4953.21,4954.86"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/243","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Sager: You know, I wasn't in it for too long. It was a group of— I mean other women who were in it definitely were more involved. I was kind of a hanger-oner. I would go to some meetings, I wasn't involved in any of the organizing or anything, but it was like a sweet group. And sometimes four people would show up, and sometimes larger amounts of women would show up.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=4954.88,4976.24"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/244","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And my initial reaction to it was, it was a place to get support. It was a place to socialize, is how it felt to me. A place to socialize with other Jewish lesbians. And I ended up leaving the Baleboostehs, because for me I wasn't that— I do love being Jewish, I have Hanukkah parties and I do Passover, but I don't know how to describe this. I don't go to temple, and it just felt like— I mean I grew up very Jewish. There was some women in that who hadn't even grown up very Jewish, they became Jewish-identified.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=4976.26,5013.81"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/245","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"But, at the same time it was very much about Judaism. And that's again, not really what my focus was in my life. It felt too much that way, but I remained friends with a lot of those women. I mean, Sally and Enid and Nina, and I think those were like maybe the three women I remained friends with outside of that group. Like you didn't have to be in that group to be friends with people. So, I ended up, I'm thinking, you know. And I had been in a disability support group, which really felt that was really important to me.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=5013.82,5043.88"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/246","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And this group just as a group, it just didn't feel like I needed it. So, I ended up not being involved.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=5043.9,5050.01"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/247","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Raiskin: How would you describe the changes in the lesbian community from that time to now?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=5050.01,5055.28"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/248","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Sager: Well, back then, there were gay bars back then. I mean, I'll just say that. And you know, in San Francisco there were gay bars or also coffee houses, and other things like that. When I moved up here, there was the bookstore, but it was mostly like gay bars. It just seemed like at that time to me when I moved up here, it seemed like the community was really cohesive. Like the way I described it, it seemed like women were really proud about being out. I didn't get a sense of women's like shame about that, maybe because I was a lesbian, they were out to me. I don't know. Those conversations didn't come up, it seemed like women were out. And there were places to go. I mean, we'd go to the bar, and dance, and it was a place where we could celebrate, and it felt like— you know, it was fun. I mean, we had a good time.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=5055.29,5116.47"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/249","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And, I don't know, the community just— you know, my community of friends is really tight. And I don't know, over time, I don't know. Over time, over my lifetime of being here, that community, it just seemed like it remained the same. For me what started to happen personally was that after Susie and I broke up— I was a drummer. Actually, I'm not really even drumming anymore.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=5116.97,5147.9"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/250","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"But I was a professional hand drummer, and I actually played with Irene Ferrera, who is a lesbian, happens to be lesbian. But her band was mixed, you know, she had two men, a bass player, a drummer and me percussionist, and her guitar player.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=5148.52,5160.75"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/251","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And because I was a drummer, I was— I had initially always played with women in San Francisco. But coming up here, I didn't really have that option. Women weren't playing hand drums. And so, I ended up playing with men up here. And more and more also became more friendly with straight women, seem to be who I was hanging out with and straight men.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=5161.28,5185.62"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/252","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"When Susie and I broke up, although I still had lesbian friends, I also was getting involved with other people and other groups of people, drummers and drumming. I ended up opening up at drum school in 2000, and I always had a woman's circle, always did women only, but I also was catering to men who wanted to drum.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=5187.85,5209.12"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/253","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And I was playing with men because that was who was playing Afro Cuban up here. And that was what I liked to do, I played congas and I was playing Afro-Cuban, traditional. I liked traditional Afro Cuban music.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=5209.12,5220.57"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/254","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Over time, I just seemed to start heading in that direction. But I was single, I still had lesbian friends, but I had a mix, lesbian friends, straight friends. All that is to say and answer your question, I got less and less, I think, involved with the lesbian community. Like what was that? I started to stray from that quite a bit, and I started to open up my sphere to just being with people I like to be with.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=5223.15,5251.13"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/255","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Raiskin: And do you think that might have been historically driven, that things were changing in terms of what it meant to be out? People were comfortable leaving the community and having other relationships?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=5251.15,5262.36"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/256","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Sager: Yeah. And also you could— Yeah, I mean, I didn't have any— I wasn't closeted with any of these straight people, they knew who I was. There's some of that definitely, you know, it got easier to be out. I would still go to the gay bars. There was that bar that was in the McDonald's, the old McDonald's—","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=5262.5,5279.96"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/257","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Raiskin: Neighbors?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=5279.96,5280.28"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/258","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Sager: Right, Neighbors. And also the bar that was Diablo—","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=5280.28,5284.55"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/259","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Raiskin: Perry’s?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=5284.51,5284.56"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/260","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Sager: —which is— Yeah, was it Perry’s? Yeah. And those places still resonated for me where, and I'd go to the drag shows, I loved the drag shows. But, I also— this is also something that I sensed about coming to Eugene, Oregon. And I'm just going to say it, I'm not going to edit myself. That, when I came up here, I found the lesbian community to be— how to put it? A little closed minded as a whole. That was my experience.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=5285.86,5318.98"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/261","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"In San Francisco when I left in 1990, lesbians were wearing lipstick, lesbians were wearing dresses. I knew lesbians that were sleeping with men and still calling themselves lesbian. I mean, just because they wanted to have sex, and they couldn't find a woman to do it with. But they were still having relationships with women. And there was all this stuff going on. There was S\u0026M with lesbians, it was like any, you know, do your thing, and it's fine.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=5319.51,5344.02"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/262","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"When I came up here, I was told by the lesbians that— I mean I think I remember wearing lipstick at one point and being shot down. Nobody could believe I was wearing lipstick. That was part, also, of my feeling about like, \"What's going on up here?\" And I also felt like a lot of lesbians were still conforming to a certain way of looking or acting or talking, like very PC.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=5344.56,5370.75"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/263","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And I'm a very politically-active person, but I'm also somebody who— I don't know, that's just me. I've never been able to be boxed in, you know, boxed. Like even in San Francisco when women would say something that was very— how to describe this? Okay.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=5370.77,5390.21"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/264","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I'll just say it. I was in a situation once with a group of lesbians where we were all talking about sex, and somebody was talking about how, \"Oh my gosh, they just like it when they're just rubbed with a feather.\" And somebody else was talking about that, too.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=5390.21,5403.21"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/265","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And I just said, \"Oh my God, I just love it when somebody just fucks me really hard.\" Like that was me. That's what I said. Like, I wanted the dildo. We can use dildos, right?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=5403.21,5413.97"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/266","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"But, when I came up here to Eugene, it just felt like I had to go back to a time that I was already past. And that was part of my— and I never said this to anybody, and now it's on frickin’ camera, which is why I left the Baleboostehs— and why I started to gravitate a little bit away from the community at large because I felt like I had to conform to a certain way of being, or a certain something of saying. And I'm like, \"I'm just not that person. I'm going to keep my hair long. I've always been fem, that's kind of who I am. And now I have permission to wear a dress, and I'm going to go for it.\" So, yeah, that was part of it. But I think that was— but in answer to your question, yes, I think that times were changing anyway in terms of Pride and being able to come out. But I also always felt like Eugene was a little bit— maybe women here were like a little ten years behind what was going on maybe in the rest of big cities.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=5416.01,5469.22"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/267","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And maybe that was because it was a small town and they needed to protect what they had, and protect it. I see that now, protect, you know, it was very precious being a lesbian in Eugene. I kind of see, I'm going to get teary eyed, but I can kind of see why that was important. And also too, let's face it, Eugene is small, there aren't that many women. San Francisco was like, come on, you know, I mean maybe you ran into the same woman, you slept with her, maybe not. You know, it was a big city. And new women were coming in all the time. Here, when I was single, I would have friends calling, \"Well, what about so-and-so?\" And I'd be like, \"I've known her for like— I mean, if I was interested, I'd be interested.\" That's how small Eugene was. It's like, I'm not just going to like see her because she's single and I'm single. Like, that's not where I'm at.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=5469.23,5519.33"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/268","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Raiskin: Do you imagine staying here?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=5519.34,5522.17"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/269","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Sager: Yes, I'm here. But here's what's happened. Susie and I broke up, I was single for twelve years. The first two years— she dumped me for somebody else. The first two years we had this whole life on this farm together. My plan: Susie was my one. I mean, I really— I'm going to get teary eyed, it's been like years. I mean forever, and I'm still— Susie was the one I thought it'd be with forever, totally loved her. And then she broke my heart, and it took me years to get over that.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=5522.53,5550.37"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/270","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And I was single, and so I really felt— but during that period I did have kind of an affair with a woman for two years. But I also knew I was not ready for another relationship, but it was really fun. That was like— Okay, this is on tape. This is like bad. But outside of Susie and Johnny, she was like the best sex ever. Oh my God, it was awesome. Two years with Kristen, it was like the best.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=5550.39,5575.32"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/271","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"But, I didn't want to be in a relationship. That broke up. And then I was single, I was still getting over Susie. And then I spent time healing and feeling like, \"You know what? It's really important that I love being by myself. I had been in a lot of relationships, and I just felt like if I could be happy on a Saturday night by myself doing my own thing, then I feel like I've accomplished something.\" And I spent the next amount of time, the next three or four years being really creative. I had this drum school, I wrote a book about hand drumming, which did get published. And I just had a great creative time. And about three years later, I started— you know, so this is like 2000, 2003, 2005. About 2007 I started to think, I've been single a long time, and maybe I'm hitting the unhealthy marker where you get comfortable, and do I want to be single? And I realized I didn't want to be single.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=5576.85,5632.91"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/272","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And so, I started to date. I dated, there was a woman who was taking drum lessons at my drum school. She was adorable, but we spent it— you know, it didn't work. You know, we spent one date and I was like, \"No, that's not going to work out.\" And during that time, I started to get my shit together, and I started to feel a little bit more confident, and trying to put myself out there. And about that time, and I was working, at that time, I had closed the actual brick and mortar drum school, and it was just a virtual drum school, where I was still going into the community doing drum circles.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=5633.92,5666.65"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/273","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I worked with a lot of organizations and groups doing this. And I was working at Pacific Winds Music, on Eighth and Monroe, in customer service, because I knew drums and I was helping them sell drums and all this stuff. And it was really a fun job. And about two years into working at that store—we're at about 2008, 2007— this guy, who I was friends with, had been friends with for two years—he and I were friends—he walks me to my car, and he tells me he has a crush on me. And he knew I was a lesbian and I was like, \"That is great.\" I mean, who doesn't want that? That's very flattering. Thanks.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=5666.69,5703.09"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/274","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And I was like, \"Okay, crush, whatever.\" But, I'm like, \"Yeah, whatever,” you know? “But I have a crush on you.\" I'm like, \"Okay.\" So, I was about to turn fifty, this guy was twenty-seven. I was really flattered, but it was like, \"How adorable is that?\" Kind of, that's where I was at, \"How adorable is that?\" And then he kept persisting. He kept insisting and persisting. And this went on for a while. He had a girlfriend he was living with, he had a child, a five- year-old child. And I was like, \"Well, you've got to get your shit together.” Plus— whatever.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=5704.1,5741.21"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/275","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And, you know, I don't know if I was interested or not interested.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=5741.23,5746.54"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/276","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"We had been friends. I mean, I liked Aaron, he was a nice guy. And he kind of did the song and dance for about three months. I had already turned fifty, and I started to think like, \"I am single, I am fifty, he's twenty-seven.\" I thought, \"When is this ever going to happen again, man or woman?\" I mean, I don't want to be— and this is my personality, this is so me. I thought, \"I don't want to be sixty, looking back going, ‘I didn't say yes to that twenty-seven- year-old? Why didn't I say yes?’\" So, I said yes, and we had sex.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=5746.54,5784.87"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/277","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And it wasn't good sex at all, it wasn't like great sex, it wasn't any, it was like the weirdest sex ever. Literally, it was over in like thirty seconds, I couldn't believe it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=5785.18,5798.44"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/278","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I mean, he's on top of me and I'm like laughing. I mean, trying not to laugh, but trying to hide that I was laughing at it. Oh man, the thing was so hysterical. But I fell in love with this guy, and I had never fallen in love with a guy. I had men pursue me in my life. I had dated some guys. I was playing with plenty of male drummers.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=5798.88,5816.61"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/279","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And I'm not saying, I never thought a man was attractive. You know, there are good looking men, but I was never like, \"Oh, I've got to get a piece of that ass.\" And I never fell in love with a guy. I never wanted a guy in my life. I never pictured it. I would try to picture it, \"What would it be like to live with a man?\" And I was like, \"Ech, no.\" And here I fell in love with this twenty-seven, it hit me like— I mean, to this day people have said, \"How? Why did that happen?\" And I think that, I mean, I don't really know. I could theorize I knew him, we were friends, and then he was adorable and he was also— and this is, I think key to it, he really did love me. He really did love me. He wasn't playing me, he wasn't a player. He pursued after we had sex. He had— the whole thing was really horrible for him. He didn't know what to do. He told his girlfriend; it got really messy.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=5816.86,5870.51"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/280","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I ended up quitting Pacific Winds in March and ended up dropping the whole thing in April. This went on for about three months. I mean, he really needed to deal with this stuff, and it was complicated. And his girlfriend— wife knew about— I don't know if they were married or what, but it wasn't where I wanted to be.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=5870.99,5888.92"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/281","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"But it really changed my trajectory. Because of that I thought, \"You know what, I do want to be in a relationship. I do want to take dating seriously.\" And I started to put my— I was like felt literally like I was putting myself back in a box of lesbianism. I was like, \"Okay, I'm going to be— I'm a lesbian, I'm going to date women.\" And everything in me was like, \"Well, are you still just interested in women? I mean, are you?” And I couldn't answer that question, and I thought, \"Well, you know, you have to figure this out. Was that an anomaly?” I decided to just throw it open. And I had a girlfriend that said I was very greedy at that point because I said, men or women, she just thought I was very greedy. And I did, I dated men and women.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=5889.35,5939.16"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/282","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And I ended up with a man. I ended up with a man. And I said I'd never marry or have kids. He came with three children, and I ended up actually getting married to him.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=5940.06,5952.54"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/283","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Susie and I had gotten married back then, not legally, we couldn't do it legally. But, we did have a ceremony to get married. I still cry about that. And I did marry Johnny, this guy who I was fifty-one, he's forty-seven, or fifty— Yeah, fifty, forty-seven. And, I'm going to say this about that. In San Francisco, I knew women who were straight in the ‘70s, I knew women who were straight, who were becoming lesbians because of their political views. I'd met those lesbians. I knew women who had been lesbians for a very long time and then went straight. Decided that I knew a woman who wanted to be straight because she just felt like she'd be accepted, she wants to have kids. It wasn't, I mean, she was great with it. And, I also remember a lot of lesbians sleeping with men, including actually my own girlfriend, BF. And I remember— who's a lesbian, who's been in a relationship with a woman now for thirty-six years.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=5953.22,6010.11"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/284","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And I remember wondering like, \"How do you give up the girls?\" And I'm going to tell you that you don't. I'm going to cry again.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=6010.66,6019.67"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/285","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"You don't give up girls. I'm a monogamous person, so I'm going to be with Jack. And, there's something very interesting about that relationship because all the things that would turn me off even about a guy, the fact that he's hairy, the fact that he has even— I always said, \"Okay, well I'll date a guy, but if he's got facial hair, it's like no way.\" And all this kind of stuff. And even having kids, like I dated a lesbian in town who wanted kids. I was like, \"Okay, well we're not doing that.\" I mean, all these weird things about him that would have turned me off, did not only not turn me off, but I just felt like there was something. I was home with him, there was a peace with him. It was almost like it was meant to be. It was very— to this day, I look at him, I go, \"I cannot believe I ended up with a hairy man.\" And he says, \"Well, like my fantasy wasn’t a Jewish lesbian, disabled Jewish, lesbian, like that was my fantasy?” I can just say that, but he knows my background. We hang out with my dyke friends, Barb. But for me— Okay, I can't speak generally for other women, but for me, it's not like wanting to have sex with women, or even being attracted to women, it's something that's not gone away. And to this day, the same thing has remained. I didn't become this person that's like, \"Oh, look at that guy's ass.\" I'm still like, when my straight friends talk about guys, I'm still like out of that conversation. Even though I am married to this hairy, six foot four—I'm five one—man.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=6019.96,6113.04"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/286","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And I will tell you this though, that when I started seeing him, I immediately saw how fucked up this world really is. It's bad enough being oppressed as a lesbian, but the minute I got with a guy, my life became normal. And to this day, that makes me so angry.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=6113.99,6131.9"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/287","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Raiskin: What do you mean by that?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=6132.26,6133.05"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/288","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Sager: I immediately had privilege. I could go anywhere, I could do anything. I had this guy, at work I was working. I had gotten a job, temp, I was working for the city, back working for the city of Eugene. It's like, Oh, you can say— you know, people start talking about their relationships. You can say, \"Oh yeah, my husband—” or, you know— I mean, it's disgusting. You immediately become a part of the universal majority, and without any kind of— it’s like all of a sudden— without any kind of— what do I want to say? Like, all of a sudden you're a member of a club that just because you're straight, like this accepting— I mean, it's like that's such bullshit.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=6133.07,6182.87"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/289","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Raiskin: Do you ever want to define yourself more broadly to people so they don't assume?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=6182.88,6186.85"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/290","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Sager: You know, it's just interesting for me. You know, I have friends who have called me bi— Jill, are you really bisexual? Now you're fluid or whatever. And I feel like for me, and maybe because I'm an old timer lesbian, in some ways, I have to say that I'm straight, because even though I feel like Jack— I mean, Jack, Johnny will be— I did have a Jack. That Johnny would be like— I don't know what's going to happen there. But I feel like I'm straight because for me, I am monogamous and I always have all the privilege of being straight. And I feel like that term bisexuality— I know women that use it, who did use it when they were with men, they would call themselves bisexual. And I still to this day find that, just me, I find that offensive.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=6186.86,6229.52"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/291","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"You're with a man, you're straight, you get all the privileges of being straight. For me bisexuality, I would call myself bisexuality if Johnny and I had an open relationship and I can get it on with that girl I'm attracted to. Then I'd say I'm bisexual. This is just my personal feeling about it. If I call myself bisexual, I feel like I'm giving out the wrong information. I have all the privilege of not being straight, it's horrible.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=6230.28,6254.85"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/292","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Raiskin: But it erases your past.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=6255.64,6258.06"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/293","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Sager: It does. But you know, I find that— and I know— and that is definitely something I think about. But, I also find that my— you would be surprised how much it comes up though, which is really interesting.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=6258.07,6272.62"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/294","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Long: In what ways?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=6273.11,6273.49"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/295","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Sager: Well, like I just had dinner with— Saturday night, Johnny and I had dinner with some friends, straight friends, who invited their straight friends. And by the way, let me just say, when I made that transition and started hanging out with straight couples, which I had never done— I mean, I hung out with men, lesbians, straight couples, except for like my sister and her guy or something. I just want you to know that— this would take a longer interview— but that whole flip thing, that did not come easy, that didn't— I mean the whole thing is so bizarre.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=6273.5,6301.93"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/296","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Okay, now I'm comfortable with it. I'm hanging out Saturday with all these straight couples, and we're talking. I don't even know how it came up, but it came up something, we were talking about couples, \"Oh, how did you meet Johnny?\" Blah, blah, blah. That whole thing comes up, \"How did you meet?\" And then I say it, because I think in a way it's not that I want them to know I'm a lesbian, personally, but there is something political. I want them to know something about it. I don't know, how can I explain that feeling? It's like, yeah, like it's not even so much about don't erase me, it's just don't erase that. Like, that's important. And also the fact that I was a lesbian for so long for me has some cred. Like, I don't know, there's some— maybe I am in a way trying to let them know, \"Hey, I'm still that woman. I'm still that—.” You know, so it is personal in that way. \"I'm still that lesbian, I'm still that woman who is— .” Well, now what they call fluid, or whatever.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=6302.21,6357.61"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/297","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Long: How do they react?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=6357.96,6359.01"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/298","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Sager: Everybody always reacts with the same kind of, \"Oh, my God, what's that story? How did that happen?\"","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=6360.14,6366.53"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/299","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Raiskin: How did what—","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=6366.54,6368.87"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/300","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Long: So, positively?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=6368.89,6368.99"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/301","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Raiskin: How did what happen?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=6369.01,6370.01"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/302","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Sager: How did I go from all those women to him? And then there's the whole Aaron, he was twenty-seven. That's how that happened. If he had been fifty, it probably never would have happened. It wouldn't have happen. I can tell you now, it never would have happened. It wouldn't have happened. He was twenty-seven, hairless, we're talking, you know, that kind of like skateboard body.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=6370.02,6394.22"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/303","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Raiskin: So, if you were—","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=6396.35,6396.89"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/304","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Sager: Because, let me just say, because when I was with Jack, Jack was hairy, and he had this ponytail, but he had long hair, and I would sleep with him and fantasize that he was a girl. That's kind of what happened a lot. Because he had this long hair and I'd close my eyes.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=6397.81,6412.51"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/305","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"But there was Aaron, hairless, Aaron—","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=6414.21,6415.67"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/306","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Raiskin: So, the young people these days are pretty fluid.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=6416.19,6419.13"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/307","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Sager: Yes, they are.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=6419.14,6420.51"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/308","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Raiskin: Is there anything you would say, if you imagine a young person watching you, hearing your story, is there anything after sixty-one years you would tell them?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=6420.79,6429.85"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/309","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Sager: Yeah, I would say be true to yourself. Really be honest with yourself. If that means that you are somebody who is curious about girls, do it, experiment. Be brave, don't talk about it, do it. See how you really feel about it. I would say that— and I say that because, here's the opposite side of this whole thing. When I moved up here, I met some straight women who— and I was still lesbian— would tell me that they would have fantasies about sleeping with me.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=6430.28,6466.62"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/310","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Some girlfriends, my sister had girlfriends.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=6468.04,6469.54"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/311","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And I was like, \"Okay. Well, let's do that.\" But they weren't brave enough, their background, whether it's religious, whatever, wouldn't allow them to cross that divide. And when I came out as straight, and all these lesbians I knew in town started to hear about it, and some I told, obviously. You know, I didn't hide it, I told them. But some also, you know, this is a small community. So, people started to talk, and they would already know.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=6470.22,6497.72"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/312","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And I heard from quite a few lesbians that they were curious about that. About, I mean, they would say things to me like, \"Oh, you know, well, I would've slept with a man.\" And in my head I thought, \"Well, why didn't you then?\" And I guess I just feel like, we are at a time, the good news now is, we are at a time where fluidity is such a good thing. I'm such a proponent of it, because when I came out— and I didn't become a lesbian because I had to, I really felt like I had no choice. I really didn't want to be with girls. I was attracted to girls.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=6498.43,6542.55"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/313","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"But, I also feel like that time— I mean, we had moved to— I met women who had come out in the ‘50s where it was very closed.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=6543.96,6550.4"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/314","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"You know, it was very fem or very butch. I heard their stories, you know, in the ‘70s, my gosh, we had feminism, we had liberation. I mean, we came out at that time, you could be who you wanted to be. But, at the same time there was still a bit of a code. And man, I'm trying to think about what that code was, but it had to do with belonging. You didn't want to be stepping out too far where you couldn't belong in a lesbian community. That was part of the gift. I mean, being with other women, not conforming, being on the outs.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=6550.4,6581.85"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/315","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I mean, in the ‘80s when women were having babies, lesbians were having babies. I was told I'd be a good mother and I thought, \"How did we get here?\" Like, \"Why? I don't want to be a mother. I never did.\" Now, we have to do that, or military, do I really fucking care?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=6581.89,6595.84"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/316","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I mean, maybe I am just somebody who's always been a little rebellious. I don't want to do what everyone else is doing, I don't know. In terms of like— I resent the whole straight thing. Like, really, I became a privileged person? Like, my God. But I feel like we're at a time that's so different. But I just implore younger women and young men too, to really be true to yourself and not be scared of— because we do still have biases in this country. It's gotten worse, and we still have people who are going to reject the fact that you are gay or a lesbian.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=6596.28,6631.79"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/317","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"But, I just— the time is now, you know, experiment, do it. Have sex with the people you want to have sex with, fall in love with who you want to fall in love with, and really see where your heart's at.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=6631.79,6644.19"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/318","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Really do that. Don't say no, always say yes because that's a life you're not going to regret.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=6644.21,6650.67"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/319","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"When I met Johnny and I realized I was going to be with this guy, I looked in the mirror, and I said to myself— Look at me, getting all emotional. I said, \"You know, Jill, you can be proud you never said no. You know, you have the life you wanted, and you will continue to do that.” And that's being true to yourself. And I really think that's okay from personal experience, that's a really good way to live.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=6651.37,6672.14"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/320","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Long: Thank you very much.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=6676.4,6677.59"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/321","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Raiskin: Thanks very much.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=6677.61,6677.75"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/322","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Sager: Yeah, you're welcome. Thank you.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=6677.77,6679.17"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/323","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"[END OF INTERVIEW]","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380#t=6679.95,6680.06"}]},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["English [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1634/collection_resources/56181/file/130380/transcript/92612/annotation/324","type":"Annotation","motivation":"subtitling","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/file_transcripts/associated_files/000/092/612/original/843_Coll520_do052_aligned.vtt?1776852375","format":"text/vtt","language":"en"},"target":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/file_transcripts/associated_files/000/092/612/original/843_Coll520_do052_aligned.vtt?1776852375"}]}]}]}