{"@context":"http://iiif.io/api/presentation/3/context.json","id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/iiif/ft8df6mr98/manifest","type":"Manifest","label":{"en":["Interview with Richard Leacock--Copy from Warped Originals [1/4-in. magnetic audiotape], August 25, 1964"]},"logo":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/029/original/uo-logo-hires.png?1580744881","metadata":[{"label":{"en":["Description"]},"value":{"en":["1 sound tape reel : 1.875 ips; 5 in. (Physdesc)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Format"]},"value":{"en":["1 sound tape reel(s) (analog)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Identifier"]},"value":{"en":["Coll 458 (Collection Call Number)","JB0030 (Digital Object ID)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Date"]},"value":{"en":["August 25, 1964 (Creation)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Source Metadata URI"]},"value":{"en":["https://scua.uoregon.edu/repositories/2/archival_objects/345403"]}},{"label":{"en":["Agent"]},"value":{"en":["Leacock, Richard"]}}],"summary":{"en":["1 sound tape reel : 1.875 ips; 5 in."]},"provider":[{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/aboutus","type":"Agent","label":{"en":["University of Oregon Libraries"]},"homepage":[{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/","type":"Text","label":{"en":["University of Oregon Libraries"]},"format":"text/html"}],"logo":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/029/original/uo-logo-hires.png?1580744881","type":"Image"}]}],"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/public/images/audio-default.png","type":"Image","format":"image/png"}],"items":[{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262310","type":"Canvas","label":{"en":["Media File 1 of 2 - Coll458_jb0030_Leacock_01.mp3"]},"duration":3410.86041,"width":640,"height":360,"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/public/images/audio-default.png","type":"Image","format":"image/png"}],"items":[{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262310/content/1","type":"AnnotationPage","items":[{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262310/content/1/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"painting","body":{"id":"https://aviary-p-universityoforegonlibraries.s3.wasabisys.com/collection_resource_files/resource_files/000/262/310/original/Coll458_jb0030_Leacock_01.mp3?1739224762","type":"Audio","format":"audio/mpeg","duration":3410.86041,"width":640,"height":360},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262310","metadata":[]}]}],"annotations":[{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262310/transcript/76696","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["AUTO_TRINT_Coll458_jb0030_Leacock_01.mp3 [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262310/transcript/76696/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e I've got to get on with my play or up and running. However, it's. Firstly, I've got to believe that this is the way people behave for dealing with people. Then I've got to be, you know, I've got to, I'm sure. I mean, I've got some that whoever is, if it's being created in a play or a theatrical film that the the something valid here. But the guy who's doing the work really knows what he's talking about. He's really got this. The way things do happen. Then I've got to be given a lot in the right ingredients so that I can begin to put together my own interpretation of you want without being given merely one interpretation, which is the only interpretation, which is the author's interpretation, which is abundantly clear. The extraordinary thing about most Shakespeare plays is the the commendable area of area of confusion. This is what makes hamlet so interesting for any of those. Also, the historical play totally wild. But let's say. Do you not feel that in dealing with a, with a, let's say, narrative? But there is a great deal of interpretation. But you cannot say that the people that people really act like that. These things are. This is we're in another world which is commenting on that. We're looking at a kind of a metaphor. Are we not kind of in the moment. Okay. I mean, the Greeks went very, very far this direction by the, of the early plays, those the most directly. But these actors are not the people we are discussing. Don't get involved. No. We just know who's going around the stage door and asking what he thinks about Colin Graham as an actor, you know, with a mask on. We're gonna have him talk funny, too. This is where they're. Where? They're merely the communicators of of something which lies in limbo sometimes for me. I want to be more experienced in all sorts of different forms. So then there is another form of believability or ways of gaining confidence. There are many forms of if you would, you would say that the confidence of the of the audience spectator and leading them into a particular kind of world position. Yeah. So in a, in the article filming or quote plays by which I'm in control, this puts a tremendous burden on the right on. Director actor conglomerate. And look, they have to create from nothing a a valid, believable situation. Which is not necessarily real. That is so up to the. So fundamentally of human morality weakness and morality. That that I say oh my God, this smells true. And it's interesting. Now I can put something together, but well worth trying is we don't have quite the same burden. We're going to the actual apartment, the material I'm trying to to observe that about as if it was a play. Would you have objected to. A playwright or filmmaker telling you something? Do you feel that you are not telling us something by by putting Happy Mother's Day together in the way you did? Dilemma. You were talking about a dilemma. You were talking about something very definite that comes across. I would say that from the film you can draw a very wide spectrum of conclusions. In other words, you said this plus all of your conclusions that you may draw you, that you are perfectly at liberty to draw. This is the kind of, you know, the the kind of standard and upfront sort of thing where I'm just thinking again, what the theatrical act, the director, the conglomerate is learning is that creating this we in a funny sort of way, So what are the audience? I know why. I'm not director. What the audience or watching was saying. Films are a means of sharing my audience experience. Which is very different from being a playwright. Let's put you. Know this. You see, this is very obviously true. And I haven't seen what makers do. The brain, the brain. But there is a shared audience viewer of a play. In a sense, that's where we are. We say we're filmmakers from a funny sort of way, where the audience were a okay crystalized audience. Recorded audience. And. We don't have the booth. I think I love real theater. I just think it's unbelievably difficult. To do what Shakespeare did. And I think the most contrived there, there is a very, very low world. And that's by most contrived films. I must say, I find monumentally boring. I mean, they might might amuse me for an evening, but I think most of them become consigned to the bottom of the ocean of life. This is on the island intro what we're doing. But culturally we have a simpler problem. Than the. See. The funding problem. If I had acted, you know, hired a bunch of actors. Actors don't like what you say. And Happy Mother's Day simply wouldn't be interesting. Because, you know, the world of them would do. Wouldn't be interested. But the sense of immediately was that I, you know, I just. I have that feeling that it wouldn't be. Would you say that it would be more interesting if you had done that? But rather than making a statement, suddenly left it open to the audience to somehow participate and draw conclusions of its own, which is, you know, what Renee is doing in a much more. I always manage by myself, not dealing with those. Objective realism. You can do another impression from soup. There are no limits. To what? Run. I can tell you they're running fine. I was leaving for the gym the other night, but you know. You get writer and writers broken down rocks who set themselves. A very rigid. Limit to what he can know. Because it's written. Do you remember the guy who was sitting around smoking a cigar? What's his name? Marlowe. Thank you for the telling the story of Marlow can't know everything about Lordstown. He can't know what the heck's going on or the general. So. You can ask him questions and he can tell you what Jim said. But I can't get inside and you can't know everything. And he and you both together have to go about all areas. And so then there's another credibility to it, them to maybe give them make it much more interesting because again. So what do we have to go your after. I mean one of the things is true. It's when it gets interesting is when it causes you to speculate, when you have the basis for speculation. In other words, when a film is. For example, rather than. What would be the time for it rather than resolve it? And. It's funny. Lord of the flies didn't cause me to speculate about anybody except about the guy that wrote it. Which is very interesting. It was a horror film. I'm not. I'm proud of it. Somebody could take me out. These people. I used to play on Nasty People, although. So. But it certainly didn't go to the point where I could speculate about the money. Usually every single one knew what was going to happen long for them. I mean, I was so tired of waiting for that rock to pull down. Really. I was going to speculate about some basis for sort of remember, first and foremost, this is something. This this provocation to speculation is it was part of the successes in the real world. What keeps the novelty beyond the fact that there is beyond our knowledge that there staged. Bicycle thief. We know their story. We accept the fact that this has been constructed, and it will work for them to believe in what's going on. And we actually intend to learn something about Rome and. Thinking surely, somehow. Yeah, I know. Well, what do. And. Then? I might do that. Shirley, however, felt that there was a great area of what you were talking about confusion in her film, but it's possible area for many canyons to be drawn would be in the settlements, which we and we haven't talked about this in much of the this film tends to remain will remain a certain or fairly Rollo. Testimony to a certain Kind of people at a certain time in American history. They would be transmitted to a particular opinion or the view, I think, where you and I both and surely to tend to trip on this one is when she comes out and says, my, the guy from college comes down to talk to, you know, my brother. So he was somewhere which caught between confusion and being wanting to be precise. I must say I haven't seen any from what? I wrote, but I was really focused on what it must feel like. We were held. For a. Month. Let's go. Let's move on to a different, slightly different area. I want to confirm this. Piece of information. What is it in Florida or similar? You admitted. But we can certainly correct that. You would think and do a row so it would fit inside. The rule book. But you just can't do it now. What's the program load. What a route from where you can't store. I know for sure I was on the road. The head of the radio station was talking about the quantum secretary from there. And. Through. Something happened, I don't know, I run from him or something and after around fact. But. Joyce and I cracked up laughing. The difference was so great. Gamba. It was the same girl who I'm pretty sure I'm an absolute voter. And when we run the machines, here we go. I can't believe we're. Living in limbo to think before we vote. And we're going. To do this. And it is impossible. Not you think there might be other techniques. Such a way. To directly do whatever it is over there. But let me write about Robert Gibbs, who is one of. Those. So your objection is one that we will not be here on the principle that you can't do it in movies, but. Well, the guy I wrote my papers for streaming domain so we can do a fine averaging from. No problem. So I am most honest from the moment of the conference, they probably front Through the Census Bureau, I believe in other runs, I think. I think you do too. Don't. The input to the server, right? Fine. I don't agree with them. I think everybody's in the state. Room for one reason. The kind of thinking about the kind of cutting I think it is in Boston is. But, you know, it's impossible. By the way, the camera keeps moving around the wrong places right now. Possibly. You know, the. The polls. I think that the work began to become more and more aware of a whole sort of accepted. Grammar of filmmaking, which is becoming what the Catholic canon can't do, I think it's changing as a man. When I see somebody jump, you know, running out of the house, jumping to close the door, stand up on the next shot through the windshield. Today, I said.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262310#t=5.25,1074.59"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262310/transcript/76696/annotation/2","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e You can't.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262310#t=1075.16,1077.38"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262310/transcript/76696/annotation/3","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e Do that. And when I reflected this, I never reached out to them. And you would never would. You would do that in a film which are great and dramatic. And I'm not objecting. I just say all of a sudden I started to resemble the result. I find that I was looking out of the movie at this point. I never did before, and it's because I think that was involved in the environment. Grumbles important. What would you think about the grammar in in that the bombshell had to come back for that? This is a strange thing, but we find that the the camera is you in a different way than we do now. Charlie, remember, is not staged in a meaningful sum. And what I mean by staged. A lot of the things in that film are he don't people starting doing something that they knew how to do and he filmed. This is what he had done a great deal and went from the flour to that. Now, in between, I ask those people to get together on that house and talk over the situation. Oh, no. Okay. You know, I'd rather not have them. I knew it was going on all the time in these kinds of discussions, but I couldn't be privy to them because they didn't invite me to come from his house. So I did that now. Okay. Both of his very strong visual couldn't put you down. And then all of a sudden they got carried away with them and they became a real discussion. Okay, this is staged and there are many, many elements. And what they've been showing, some more than in the later films. I haven't seen all of them, and there are a lot I haven't seen, but certainly compelling, but many aspects of films where he and them started the scene going and then absurd. Even if they were reciting that were not in the dialog. Well, yeah. But I just think the way I was trying to get at and I think we were both basically talking about the same thing, is the run into them that comes up with the dialog and, you know, it may be told what you know, but I didn't say that the men didn't come off the dialog and the way down the story is or or the French, I mean, but that but I did notice that this is one of the things there is a way of using a camera, it seems to me, which tends to say authenticity. This doesn't have to be a community with jumps all over the place. I mean, that was but but booms things in unlikely positions rather than privileged ones rather than. Yeah. Yeah. When you see that the funny is that from the beginning to appear. Now this may sound very turbulent fluid, but in head when the bulldozer, you know, pushing the air over the dead cow very quickly thing, the bulldozer comes closer and closer to the camera. And I stood on my feet, absolutely sure that it had begun to run over me. But in my kind of film and whatnot. And it's a different day when the window at the boogie shot, I know it's gonna come off. You know, there always technicians standing around. I know the bull. But he was all right. And so I get up to the fourth one, oh, I'm gonna become the norm. We're just gonna be your reaction to the declaration or repeal. I don't think that. I think that this is going to happen. This is becoming the implicit, I think the slime, you know, and I'm not justifying all that we're going to do in an hour. The funny thing is I attempted to get away from that. The, the, the articles on people are having to move toward the regular order, which is crazy. No. Let's take a do you know any of those films? The Japanese films, everything from a seated position, generally in medium shot and with a fixed camera in which the people move around and almost never from privileged position. And I mean, they're always positions of of the seated observer watching in action. I mean. The thing to me was watching that I was getting almost as much a sense of reality or authenticity out of this.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262310#t=1077.71,1358.08"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262310/transcript/76696/annotation/4","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Empty camera.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262310#t=1358.47,1358.8"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262310/transcript/76696/annotation/5","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e As I as I was from walls, and how can we move it around? And then I realized that this was a staged situation. It seems I think we're finally getting it is that there is a kind of granular camera which allows you to believe in the material itself rather than carrying you, you know, along the story. But I am only objecting to the breaking of the rules rather than implicitly saying this is one of them. But as soon as you do, your film ceases to play them. Then you can't when you play them. You want to share with him the camera and say, this is the man. And then all of a sudden, cutting in on a tight close up in the middle of the scene, and Matthew, that you would call with some help. We. As movie almost. I wouldn't mind selling the other one. Thank you. Much more for supposedly my elbow room. But you look at it from. Nothing. But HUD never, never says this is the way you feel, that you follow drama. Nevertheless, this is a drama. And we objected to it on that play on that basis. I don't know. They weren't going anywhere. I'm like the other one. Well, it may be that maybe it's difficult, or maybe it's like a feeling that they were shooting Dualism, you know, but using a grammar that would be better for something else, you know. From others. That's as well as how this whole concern of mine came up for this, this problem. To move on to next to to play. I think. We see a wide range in clarity with different techniques. Manner there, and very often it's a privilege to count the position as opposed to the what you're talking about. Would you say there's I mean, it is impossible for the count to be at 16 places at once, that it was in the voted this up on the shark shortcut or in Louisiana story, the created effect of the battle with the alligator, the current doulos. Those are the the what I call the vote of all things flower. But maybe his films, I don't know, we discussed we talked about it. I didn't get it on tape. Well, the to me that the films were a strange mixture of absolutely inspired investigations of the camera and the. Sort of an exploration. So usually sort of physical thing. So trees, rock storms, places, activities that people have done or cooking a meal or something that they do not have a communication with, they couldn't deal with. Which he made acceptable by and serving world of their lives. You know, a lot of people only remember the vaudeville acts. Practically every film had a piece of rope with somebody at one end and something else the other, the old tug of war, which is a very for the little act which amuses people. Fairly easy to make amusing. It's like it's true, but. And don't you think that's totally unimportant and just as important to flatter you? You know, his other. You know, I don't. I at least I don't think it was very important to him. And I was told that I find them very uninteresting for all my glory or any other word. But the first one was with the seal, and I'm knocking the seals. Pretty funny. It was the comedy act. The manic was laughing my. I was roaring with laughter because that's the flower. The or somebody was that the other or in the row? You know goofy that might have in that place probably had more relations of the what really happened on the albums you spoke. It was. But you know, alligators don't pull ropes throughout the mountains. Is that understood? Mrs. Flaherty told me the reason for this highly edited scene was that the alligator didn't fight. No. Just came right to the bank. So I found that. Please take this hook out of my mouth. Ta dah! Oh! Oh, mom. Well, he was in a bind. You know, you have to get these things. And the feathers on these got by around the time the audience from. Nobody was interested in loose buttocks and those days or what they've got coming up in the film. Randy had to make something to play to the gallery above, which didn't fit. However, his general remained struggling with his form. I don't think it's films about a man struggling with an arm. Well, Bob, Bob wasn't. I don't think basically impressive men struggling. He had a tremendous respect for people who lived tough lives. And the friends, well, he loved people who would do whatever it is they did as well. My experience for them, he was just delighted with good gangsta good. Anything else? He liked people who would do something and really do that great. He liked really anyone who was an expert at anything, whether it was driving a train or wall, blowing glass or whatever it was. He was delighted with people who did whatever they did well, and these were things that he found fascinating to watch. And this is really what intrigued him. And this is something that he could, you know, you could see and you could enjoy and you could. And he would that he was fascinated with giving you the idea of a tall tree, or the nature of a storm, or the height of a cliff. These are the things that he was fantastic that he thought about and was extremely conscious about. You wouldn't discuss them with most people who may discuss the great life, even the technical aspects of of what he had found out about how you dealt with these things. And the marvelous thing about him was that each thing that he tackled, except for the vaudeville acts which he knew how to do. Everything else was a total puzzle. He had in the room, you know, most competent directors, I mean the mystic design of the very definite idea of what he's doing. And he comes in, he says, okay, put the camera here, I want this and that and the other thing. And he tells everybody what to do, and everybody does it. And it's quite fun, much as. And you make so many feel that's marvelous. It works. Bob would arrive at a situation and that's why he hated a lot of people around, because he never knew what he wanted to do, so he had no way of keeping people busy and people wanted to be kept busy. Otherwise they'd be a little way. Out because he never knew what he wanted to do. So he had no way of keeping people busy and people wanted to be kept busy. Otherwise maybe a lot of the time, and but would get very resentful of the man who doesn't know what he's doing. And the most thing about Bob was he never knew what he was doing. He had the moral, got to know it. Not the fool himself. And so, okay, each thing was a new problem. And you started out well put the cameras department. Und so, okay, each thing was a new problem and you started out well. Put the cameras to finding down place, but you can see what's going on. That's what it's for. Look with. So get some place where you can see him in those days where you'd have to use tripods and put a tripod and start looking at it. Then when you get sick of looking at whatever is going on from there, let's try somewhere else. And then let's look at develop from that and look at it. Well, certain things seem to, to, to really convey what was going on. This one seemed to give really an impression of, of, you know, what does an oil well look like, a drilling rig. How does it what does it look like? Well, he doesn't want to show you too much. He never wanted to show you the whole thing. He wanted to to basically it was a process of feeding you a limited information, very limited. It was like a horse has blinders on. Don't show the whole scene. Give it to you inch by inch. Give you this aspect of it, this aspect of him. Until what he was really doing was building images in the the observer of the audience's mind so that they began to create their own oil for their own free, which was probably much bigger than the clarity of the photograph other than the oil. Well, if you're photographing, which is probably a pretty pedestrian for your best friend. All right. And, you know, it was almost impossible for him not to show up for the long shot, but the important he did build this. He did build the impressions from privileged point of view. What would you object to that in any way? Know the oil well as the as the shot from the top of the rig comes down. You know, for instance. No, I've no objection to that. Flaherty doesn't seem to be around the team that we are. We are there. We're only going to see it from where we are. No, no, no, I don't mean that by privilege point of view. I mean. They're all perfectly possible points of view. And the fact that you get proposed from one place to the other quickly than what I was, what I meant, you know, I don't want to, but that's fine. You have to do that. What I meant is the absurd ones were. You know, like the shots and movies bang in from the drive. Bloody well, he's not dry. You know, they have the car in Hollywood without any dashboards, I think. But the charm of them.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262310#t=1359.82,2124.17"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262310/transcript/76696/annotation/6","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e It just looks stupid. Oh.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262310#t=2125.01,2127.14"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262310/transcript/76696/annotation/7","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, you would say that. I mean, the group one in clarity. No matter what the angle is, one always felt the presence of the reality around the camera. Oh, yeah, he was exploring the reality, not vice versa. I mean, and his most important work. One of the things that came to mind when you were talking about his ability to to investigate a problem, finding the man, presenting, let's call it the essence in a tree or a limb or what have you. I was thinking of the sea storm and the first of Mount Vernon, which to my mind is is the greatest scene in that. Not the sea storm, but the sea itself. And at the beginning is it reaches up and grasps for the net. You recall, the sea became a line of character at that moment, which is when it should, at the very first, the fall and the struggle, the sea as a hand that could reach up and grasp the net and drag it back. It was intensely dramatic, and was much more so than it would be if you just filmed the sea. You recall it. He uses it. He must use almost 30 different shots from about five different angles to express it. It's a it's a you get the impression of a scene. Characterization of it. This would be what you were talking about. Yeah, yeah. Is it ever from the bullfights instead of just going and filming a bullfight, he would have spent weeks finding out how to photograph a bull. So let's go living with Jesus out of him. Because bulls are frightening. But it's another thing to make them frighten you. And that's the problem that he would tackle. And there aren't any obvious answers. Thought it would take a real program of exploration to find out how to do that. I've never seen a shot yet in the bullseye five films, but I've never seen one where that bull's scared looking. Jesus. How many of you have been close to a bomb? Oh. That. Scary. I've never seen anybody succeed in doing that. But this would be his approach. He. I think he would admit that he didn't know. He would find out. And he'd find out by trial, intelligent trial and intelligent errors and by looking. It was an analytic approach. What you see was his film was based on screening. I've never in my life encountered the person who looked at his rushes the way he did over and over again, looking for what worked and what didn't, and who had the discipline to remember the world. Yeah, she spoke to us. Okay, now, you said that you you feel that. The investigation and so forth was was to move toward this analytic expression of its essence. And in doing so, he uses quite often a lot of cutting. You made this statement once that that by being tricky or using a lot of cutting activity, like you lose the sense of being there. Do you think that the sense of being there with this one just wasn't true with him? You see, but when we're dealing with web, dealing with people communicating. And when we start chopping up scenes, when two people are talking and we start being tricky and coming. All of a sudden you lose the sense of these two people actually talk. That's totally doable. But it is, which is the case where, you know, the the it's in this area. But but when I start to lose. Not in the visual you with. Visual explorations. Whatever you want to call them. He had many one of the things that I had in my post and working with them was again, something to love, the people working with them rejected. Right? Yeah. Because you can. Boy climbing in the tree. And we'd have the thought bug and his hair would be right. And the show would be right. And we'd have his father there on the rack doing this for me out of the thing. And we had all these people along. And on the way we saw the magnificent Thunderhead. And we stopped and filmed the thunder. And we went all along filming up. And then he saw it come work. But he fell in love with. We fell on the. The everybody, all the sensible people were saying. Kept looking their watch and saying, look, we've got to get that solved. Let's go do that and we can film at some of the time when you film cobwebs some other time, but we're keeping all these people waiting, and we really hope to come from what we set out to film. People tend to get very aggravated by things like. But in my entire life I've never seen a cobweb that was like that, anything like that. The conditions of dew on the top of the way, the sun was heading up, the placing of everything. I've never seldom seen a cloud like that. The tree, you know, any bloody time. But. But it takes. It's unbelievable. What got to take from this is what happened, Charlie. That's why it's different, I think. Yeah. He was working with a couple of friends. Nobody had any money. Time was not important. They didn't have a schedule. In fact, the longer they talked about it. Because then it was sort of cheaper the week it out and, you know, And that's why entrepreneur Charlie is full of these marvelous things that they. Experience from taste that you would say. And one of the things about it, and one of the other things that probably would be in many films, is the ability to act like a sponge on to to stop what? You know, all that around. Don't you know he wasn't that the frequencies, those full of preconceived things, but the marvelous things are the things. The way you discover something where you when you see something with an eye, the wow, the extraordinary, the I'm. This takes time. Extraordinary shots, the whole thing. It took us months to get well. For instance, you don't get them on a schedule. You said alligator. The look ferocious. Yeah. Or snap it heron. Blue heron or whatever. Right. But for instance, the little bag of salt. This was preconceived to a certain degree. This is kind of the boogeyman. But here again here is another thing which is analogous to him stopping and forming the cobweb is that, as I understand, he had read in the in the histories of the people in this area of their mythology and legends, you'd read about this bag of salt. So in a sense, is something to do. Yeah. Well, I, I feel very differently about that. I. I the boy I had a very long time acting that role because. The bag of salt just wasn't right for him. Jesus. So I. Mean.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262310#t=2128.34,2645.68"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262310/transcript/76696/annotation/8","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eUnidentified:\u003c/strong\u003e I think that.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262310#t=2658.43,2658.7"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262310/transcript/76696/annotation/9","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e There's been some, you know, you use up all.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262310#t=2659.87,2663.56"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262310/transcript/76696/annotation/10","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eUnidentified:\u003c/strong\u003e The. Money for anything but the basic operations is.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262310#t=2667.22,2673.64"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262310/transcript/76696/annotation/11","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e Somehow we need to know about. You know. We were talking about solving up things, and you said that you didn't. You had a different view of the bank, so. I. I don't, you know, I don't like the story aspect, but we have a story. Pretty silly story. I don't think that is your objective because it is a story no longer ago. It moves away from this education thing. Appreciating. Really? Yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262310#t=2675.5,2731.22"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262310/transcript/76696/annotation/12","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eUnidentified:\u003c/strong\u003e It's just a bit too goofy.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262310#t=2733.55,2734.36"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262310/transcript/76696/annotation/13","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e You know, the the basically sort of trite, but the story, it's not the interesting thing. Well. Problem. I mean, I you know, one thing that film I, me to deal with that about story. What do you think? You mentioned that we were talking about for his poetry. We talked about it in terms of this that we analyzed, and it's very interesting. What about the way he brought things into analogy? I'm thinking of the, for instance, the scene of the boat museum story, which comes as a kind of a penetration into this world, which is just one world. He was, after one, tended to use more and more of this metaphorical. Analogy. It's, you know, it's not it's not an aspect that really brings me about this world. What's fascinating is the other thing. What, you know, a little town was owned by Rockefeller back Warhammer. Travel plans. Don't know what comes next. Right. Yeah. I suppose you could take a. Well, not only. Well, I very much doubt I will. Oh, perfectly. Well, anything. Anything about making those looking up things on the marvelous observations. Testing, testing. 12345. Testing one. Two. Three. Four. But. Were you thinking about? What was he crying about when he cried for Quentin?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262310#t=2740.75,2888.3"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262310/transcript/76696/annotation/14","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Dead. He said, I think they had.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262310#t=2888.94,2893.14"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262310/transcript/76696/annotation/15","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e The crowd in the bed.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262310#t=2893.55,2894.24"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262310/transcript/76696/annotation/16","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262310#t=2894.87,2894.87"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262310/transcript/76696/annotation/17","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e You'd always be with the bucket.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262310#t=2896.25,2897.99"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262310/transcript/76696/annotation/18","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Now, let us look at that. Look, look at that. Oh. Look. You. Thank you. Tom. Yeah. Yeah. Thank. You. Thank you. You.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262310#t=2899.13,3006.93"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262310/transcript/76696/annotation/19","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e Think you're gay?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262310#t=3015.96,3017.43"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262310/transcript/76696/annotation/20","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e No.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262310#t=3021.0,3021.0"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262310/transcript/76696/annotation/21","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e Do you like pollen?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262310#t=3025.89,3026.25"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262310/transcript/76696/annotation/22","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Oh. What? The world is going on, you know. I mean, this morning. Tell.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262310#t=3035.22,3057.39"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262310/transcript/76696/annotation/23","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e Me something.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262310#t=3060.57,3060.78"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262310/transcript/76696/annotation/24","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262310#t=3064.83,3064.83"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262310/transcript/76696/annotation/25","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, you can.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262310#t=3066.06,3066.27"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262310/transcript/76696/annotation/26","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Hear it. We have to pay back, baby, for.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262310#t=3071.01,3078.21"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262310/transcript/76696/annotation/27","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e What you say.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262310#t=3079.2,3079.47"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262310/transcript/76696/annotation/28","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e No. It's not a blow. Thank you. Got one more. Oh! My God. Thank you. Make it! It's like the boot. Camp. How can they do? This. This. Is. No glove room. What do you mean, you need me? Oh. Yeah, I know.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262310#t=3083.64,3174.07"}]},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262310/transcript/76696","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["English [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262310/transcript/76696/annotation/29","type":"Annotation","motivation":"subtitling","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/file_transcripts/associated_files/000/076/696/original/trint_Coll458_jb0030_Leacock_01_transcript.vtt?1740614953","format":"text/vtt","language":"en"},"target":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/file_transcripts/associated_files/000/076/696/original/trint_Coll458_jb0030_Leacock_01_transcript.vtt?1740614953"}]}]},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262311","type":"Canvas","label":{"en":["Media File 2 of 2 - Coll458_jb0030_Leacock_02.mp3"]},"duration":3862.43918,"width":640,"height":360,"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/public/images/audio-default.png","type":"Image","format":"image/png"}],"items":[{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262311/content/1","type":"AnnotationPage","items":[{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262311/content/2/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"painting","body":{"id":"https://aviary-p-universityoforegonlibraries.s3.wasabisys.com/collection_resource_files/resource_files/000/262/311/original/Coll458_jb0030_Leacock_02.mp3?1739224773","type":"Audio","format":"audio/mpeg","duration":3862.43918,"width":640,"height":360},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262311","metadata":[]}]}],"annotations":[{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262311/transcript/79618","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["AUTO_TRINT_Coll458_jb0030_Leacock_02.mp3 [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262311/transcript/79618/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah. When did you find out that you didn't have it, or when? So we got all sorts of irrelevant material, you know, since the satirical was one of an hour film, we got all sorts, you now, we interviewed nurses and got all sort of stuff to pad it out. As far as I was concerned, the film was finished when I shot the last part of the film, in the rain. That was it. I knew this was the end of the film. By that time, had you a feeling of what it was you were talking about? We had a very, very clear idea. We had the clear idea of the film that we wanted to make, that I wanted to make, which I knew was a half-hour film. Now we also realized that we had to pad it heavily to make it into an hour. We made it into a hour. The Saturday Evening Post weren't happy with it, we bought it from them, and it took us about one evening. We simply deleted the padding, put it together, and it's the film as it stands today. The films as it stand today, we were absolutely clear of. The idea of the dilemma, which was the guiding force in the film, the putting these, which is clarifying. The situation of these people and by that the situation of America who wants to live alone and yet must also be involved with either the materialistic economy in order to exist. This developed then as you were shooting? Oh yes, absolutely. As soon as we got there we realized the invasion of privacy, the dilemma. The dilemma came later. The first thing that we realized was the tremendous invasion of privacy. These people, they were being shoved around. They were quite upset by it. Now, had we not been making the film, this had to even post, we would have probably filmed more material, making this even more explicit, and it would have come out as a really quite an unpleasant operation. Operating from this point of view that you have, as you've developed with them. I've been told that very often you would return, and not sure what the film is that you had, but that in looking at the rushes, it begins to come through. These are usually valuable finds. For instance, I, Mrs. Fisher came through in the rushes as being a more sympathetic person than I felt she was while we were there. Certain things, of course, you discover in the rushes. For instance, when the man says, but we don't have a Fisher Foundation. I didn't hear him say that when we filmed that. That was in my mind somewhere else. I didn' know he said that. Little things like that that you discover in the Rushes. This film, we had a pretty dammed view. For instance, a lot of the things, we did make shots deliberately. I knew that I wanted a shot from the air with the band walking down the street, because I knew I was going to cut from the shot in the air of the band walking down street to the band on the street. And I asked the local newsreel guy to shoot it from an airplane, so it allows a shot. While the band was, while I was shooting on the ground, so you got these sort of goofy, these are filmic devices, I don't know if they're good, bad, or indifferent, they happen to amuse me. I just thought it was a funny idea to sort of hear the band from up in the airplane and come down to it. What about... I've had this experience of...","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262311#t=5.829,271.5"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262311/transcript/79618/annotation/2","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e A batch of film and produce. Suddenly, things begin to take shape almost organically. One thing will command it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262311#t=271.97,278.93"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262311/transcript/79618/annotation/3","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e Another, and so the film had its own life within it. I find that when you have a really good sequence that you've shot of something that happened, you can almost, with my material, I can almost just cut out the gross wiggles and jiggles and junk and flashes, glue it together, and it's the sequence. I don't think that there's not a great deal of this whole technique, tricky editing and things, tends to defeat itself. Why is it that editing can become a, can defeat a film? By the way, it's great. Is this almost a... Well, two things. If you get tricky, then of course you lose the sense of being in the audience very particularly in the fact that you're playing games. That the reality before the camera is no longer very important. Yeah, but some of it is diddling. You don't want to be diddled in these bones. In certain parts of the chair, now I realize this isn't all your work, but the editing is very often just angle, reverse angle, it isn't an end.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262311#t=279.03,381.85"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262311/transcript/79618/annotation/4","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Sometimes cut like a Hollywood picture might have been cut with an established shot and simple","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262311#t=381.96,389.92"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262311/transcript/79618/annotation/5","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e back and forth in certain scenes of it, one of them, and I think in the apartment of Louie Nizer and more going over the case. If I recall, I noticed there was almost a... From the three-camera or four-camera technique that was being used in certain parts of the film. Only in the courtroom. In the courtroom, I guess. We had a more of a sense of a classical film taking place. And I've always felt that this kind of subject matter... Prohibit a classical cutting for the very reason that you suggest. We had terrible difficulties with sound and cameras and everything else. That courtroom scene was unbelievably difficult to cover. We were just going crazy. It went on all day, something like eight hours. And we were running out of film, and it was just murder. We really weren't prepared for it. So the cutting got a bit complicated. There are an awful lot of cutaways, which get annoying, simply because we didn't have the footage to cover the sound. We were forced into that. So we knew there was no principle involved there. We were simply forced into it. One thing we touched on the last time was the... The emotional, aesthetical effect of the camera itself. What size of shot you're using, the way the camera moves, all these other aspects. Can you condition a tone of a scene? Well, this is a subject, you see, at first, I think I was obviously the first, I was really obsessed by what we're doing here. I mean, when we made primary, Al didn't give a damn about the same sound. I mean he was shooting with an Aeroflux, he couldn't kill us. He was taking movie shots of all the flights. He thought it was just the image. It wasn't for much later that he caught on. Penny won't drive on. Well I was, I had come from the pretty picture department. Or the, no, that's been facetious. Working with clarity was much more than pretty pictures, but from the visual examination of the world, if you want. And I had become, I became then so upset by the limitations imposed on us by our inability to shake or shoot sound, that I just got obsessed by it and went for sync sound, sync sound sync sound. And at one point, in the early days, I got sort of alarmed by this and I went off with a guy from Boston and did a silent film on a little story about sailing boats from the Lake New Hampshire. Just purely visual. A lovely time. Just sort of, you know, begun to forget. I would like just to take pictures, not worry about things. No. And I think that for me personally, both Al and Pennebaker, who kept on, you know, they sort of came to sound, sing sound later. I know I was affected by Al's shooting, where he was having a gorgeous time in primary. Well, I was shooting sync sound, sync sound and I started to pull away then from sync sound. And started to worry more again about the esthetic, the picture, the image. Now, I don't think any of us have done anything very distinguished visually. For a long time, except, you know, little tiny bits and pieces where it's a pound. Now, I would like to do, for instance, another bullfight film. Bob Drew and I tried to do a bullfight, a bull fight film years ago. Not too bad, the equipment broke down, everything had a hell of a time. Now, I'd like to try and do one seriously, Well, we would really tackle the problem. Of how do you photograph a bull so that it's absolutely terrifying. Now this is something you have to find out. This is going back to flowering. You have to go bullfight after bullfight and find out how you photograph a bullfight visually. And when you've found out, then go do one. In other words, making experiences with experiments with a camera. Which is, for Flaherty, was constantly dying, photographing especially natural phenomena. There's one other thing I'd like now to get to before I get...","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262311#t=391.039,718.95"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262311/transcript/79618/annotation/6","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 3:\u003c/strong\u003e To Flaherty, which is next on my list.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262311#t=719.02,721.38"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262311/transcript/79618/annotation/7","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e If you brought up the subject, it seems interesting, how do you conceive now of sound? I think some of the...","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262311#t=723.02,729.56"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262311/transcript/79618/annotation/8","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 3:\u003c/strong\u003e Probably some of the problems of the early scene of the very day experience is that they talked all the time and we were constantly","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262311#t=730.58,735.96"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262311/transcript/79618/annotation/9","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e Oh, the French ones, yeah, yeah. And we're constantly aware of people talking all the time, and reality suddenly becomes noisy. Do you believe in the contrapuntal use of it, laying over?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262311#t=736.24,753.3"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262311/transcript/79618/annotation/10","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 3:\u003c/strong\u003e One conversation over shots which come from elsewhere, but which contribute...","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262311#t=755.22,760.7"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262311/transcript/79618/annotation/11","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e To a particular meaning. I wouldn't say I believe or don't believe in it. I just find that very seldom works. I do. It's funny, you know, you go back to Tobin, which is really the first, for me, the beginning of this whole Zoom direction, and Tobin... I did use, you know, shots over some music that came from the film, but, you know, there wasn't a balance at the beginning, yes, some music, but I find that I do it less and less because it doesn't seem to do much. Drew, I think, is doing it more and more. I don't know. Um, would you, uh... Would you, for instance, in the quotes, it's absolutely straight sound. Would you purify a track, let's say, take out extraneous things, set in other background sounds which you can control better in a mix, something like that, trying to give the impression of a real... Sound context? If I don't have a real sound context I suppose I would. I mean in primary we did cut in a sneeze because I didn't have the sound for her sneezing. I couldn't hear So we did cut them a sneeze, but it's a relevant one. No, really one can only answer that in the context of a specific situation. I don't know how to generalize about that. What about commentary? Terrific problem, still unresolved. I think the next film I do, I'd very like to do the commentary myself. Um, as the, why is, why isn't that? Commentary to me is if I had the film completed and I were to show it to a friend, if I were show it you and I would be sitting next to you in the screening room, commentary should be those few remarks that I have to make. To tell you what the film doesn't tell you. It's just about as simple as that. Do you think that commentary should be me saying it? I don't like a voice, but I don' know who it is, sort of thing. The voice of God, which is the common frame. Do you that you could operate poetic effect from a commentary, not taking literary poetry, but the juxtaposition of a statement. For instance, in this film I did on the march, I juxta-posed the very simple fact that the whites and blacks had come at the same time to America 350 years ago, you see, and somehow set up the ju-","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262311#t=761.04,984.74"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262311/transcript/79618/annotation/12","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e historical context over images of both whites and blacks working on freedom signs, you see.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262311#t=984.97,991.95"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262311/transcript/79618/annotation/13","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e The commentary itself was just a mere statement of fact, a fill-in of a particular information that the film didn't offer. But the relationship between the commentary and some of the other things, the relationship that brought the commentary to the image had a poetic effect. It kind of gave the sense of what had happened to these relationships finally. Yeah, well, in essence, you're dealing with something you couldn't deal with any other way. If I could deal with this in direct filming, I would. If I can't, then I have to find some other way to do it. It might be a substantial point. In other words, if you feel that the, you take a pragmatic approach, that if you can't get something in a direct filming way, you must find some road to it, if it's a necessary piece of it. If it's important that you know that somebody had a, terrible accident which has affected them, and it's important for the audience to know this in the present context of the film, then you have to find some other way of telling them that. Whether you directly say it. Again, I think that the field is wide open here. I really mean it. I would rather, when I see people being cued about something, maybe sometimes it's better to be direct. If somebody's got something to say to me, then I'd rather like to meet them and have them say it to me and come clean, you know. Or I just am not sure. I've never... I've thought of... You know, I'm not sort of against common trade. It's really a question of how it's used, and what it's doing, and I'm against sort of old-time classical palm trees, yeah, it's read by a professional reader. I think most of us are. We're looking for new ways of... The sycophant. Yes. The sterile-ness of the voice, for one thing, is uprooted.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262311#t=993.02,1144.49"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262311/transcript/79618/annotation/14","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 4:\u003c/strong\u003e Do you have a seat to hold me? Yes, I do, yes. Because you see, I wasn't too... You have a device that I don't...","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262311#t=1144.92,1150.64"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262311/transcript/79618/annotation/15","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e I wouldn't usually have a device that I don't particularly care about as a reporter. A reporter? Well, I'm not so sure. At least it's honest. Yes, it's all up in the air somehow. He was sort of in and out of the film and bridged the gaps that we couldn't do otherwise. And I rather liked that. I was thinking of doing something with, frankly, a reporter... I was thinking of talking to, what's his name, tribune columnist, John Crosby. He does a lot of rather fascinating things sometimes. For instance, if one went with him to St. Moritz or whatever it is and he's sort of bouncing around among the jet set. If you did it, frankly, as covering a journalist investigating something, finding out about something, which was the basic idea behind the Toby thing. This was a man who went out to look. He looked and laughed. I was slightly contrived at times. You remember that was shot with 35-millimeter film. I know that then. It was some problems too. It was a fantastic, technical film. On the side, I really enjoyed that film because I come from the Middle West, and... Incidentally, I don't know if we said this last time, but that's where the Beverly Hillbillies is from. Yeah. It is the Beverly Hills. The Toby show. Yeah. Yeah, that's very definitely in as part of the Beverly O'Billy's appeal. And I'm pretty much of an easy customer for that kind of corn, because in a way it's honest corn, you know, it's out in the open. I'll give back to one question.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262311#t=1148.53,1269.74"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262311/transcript/79618/annotation/16","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Too much to ask you about.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262311#t=1269.98,1270.86"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262311/transcript/79618/annotation/17","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e The use of the camera, and we talked about pretty picture and a few of the other things, but I was wondering how, to what extent, your activity in a scene, let's say filming Mrs. Fisher trying on her coat, or filming the sequence with the cat, the kitten, in the, I don't know, barn or garage or whatever. Saying, uh, do it. You sense that there is a way to film it as you're shooting it. Some things you have to grab as you can, you understand what I mean? And it seems to me that sometimes a camera movement, a brusk camera movement can upset a scene. It can destroy it, destroy the tone. A camera which is zoomed in when it really shouldn't have to zoom in, or a camera which suddenly has to jiggle to get around and get something else. All of these things operate almost physically on an audience as part of the mood of a scene. To what extent do you conceive, as you're shooting, not only of the subject that you're shooting, but how it has to be shot? Long shot? Thanks for watching! Or do you think of it in terms of that way? Al told me one thing. He was very, very, one of his great, proudful moments was when you complimented him on a shot he made in the train.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262311#t=1271.04,1362.61"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262311/transcript/79618/annotation/18","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Kenya, I think, or at least in Africa someplace, where he moved in only slightly on a","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262311#t=1362.97,1368.89"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262311/transcript/79618/annotation/19","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e I think nursing a baby on a train and the fact that and you had remarked that That was the way to shoot it not to run all the way down But only to have gone up moved in slightly to a part away and still","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262311#t=1369.03,1381.89"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262311/transcript/79618/annotation/20","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e remained with a certain restraint, discreteness. This contributed to the tonal.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262311#t=1381.98,1386.76"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262311/transcript/79618/annotation/21","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e I don't know whether you think about it, it's a tremendous amount of instinctive thing, a tremendous amounts that comes from just experience, and we find that when very good photographers, especially still photographers and things, who've never done any editing, I guess the only way... That I know of to really learn to shoot well is to do your own editing. It's really the only way where you learn about the problems of shooting. Because it's terribly hard. You've got to be aware of... And to shoot a conversation between three or four people is fantastically difficult. Boy, you've got me on the floor. One of the remarkable things in Toby was that you, the choice of shooting the scene, the stage show, themselves, kept them stage shows. Yes. Very important point. A lot of people said, well, why didn't you get up there and we'd do a close-up medium show. This is one thing that I appreciated. You see, now this was an esthetic choice from a visual standpoint. Because otherwise it would become a show of just a different thing. It would become the Beverly Hills Hotel region. Yes, which it wasn't, and it had to be seen that way, I felt. But boy, it's difficult.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262311#t=1391.28,1494.2"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262311/transcript/79618/annotation/22","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 3:\u003c/strong\u003e When you're filming a scene...","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262311#t=1495.22,1496.72"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262311/transcript/79618/annotation/23","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e The shots that are marvelous, and for instance for me, the shots in the quince, you know, I don't think we're very good at shooting yet, any of us. It's so bloody difficult, this technique. One of the most marvelous shots for me that's so damn real and just goes on and on is when you leave the lady singing the song, you come outside. And two little kids run into the middle of the street and they look down the street to see if they can see the band coming because they can hear it already. And then they get sort of scared and they run back. And this is the moment of, I mean, and it goes on, it goes under, a girl sitting up top comes down and comes back to the drum major, a little tiny girl. The shooting there is, to me... I don't know if this has some miraculous quality. Did you shoot this or what was going on when you shot it? Were you aware of the kids at the time or did this happen? I just saw them, went out with them back. It's just purely intuitive shooting and somehow it but it has this sense of You know, one's all seen this scene done in the regular movies, but it has the sense of excitement as people turn the lock, as they hear the music, you know, people begin to stand up, and it's... And I've never, you know... One's never seen it for real before. I've seen it faked a million times, and just the difference. What were the...","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262311#t=1497.23,1604.72"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262311/transcript/79618/annotation/24","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Since this scene has been.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262311#t=1608.47,1609.61"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262311/transcript/79618/annotation/25","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e I mean, it was laid on in many films. What is the essential physical aspect of it to make it look different on the screen? It's the flow of single shots. I find it terribly disturbing now in fake, real films, where The camera jumps from here to there at crazy angles and things, and it's all impossible. It couldn't have been shot this way. And it's beginning, I think, I think that the same with the greasiness. I saw Hub, The Balance, which was acclaimed as a masterpiece of the American cinema. And I was amazed, because Jimmy Wong Howe has been one of the liveliest of the Hollywood cameraman, which doesn't make him terribly lively, but he's at least tried, most of them have him. And it glued to an ancient tradition out there. But the greasiness of that photography, you know, it's like, oh, these goddamn panhandles, you know the camera, it is like a man with a brace on his neck.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262311#t=1610.02,1686.99"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262311/transcript/79618/annotation/26","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 4:\u003c/strong\u003e Back. Like this, absolutely smooth, gliding. Brilliant! Everything contributes.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262311#t=1687.02,1697.52"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262311/transcript/79618/annotation/27","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e Goddamn panhandles. You know the camera, it's like a man with a voice on his neck.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262311#t=1731.15,1734.53"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262311/transcript/79618/annotation/28","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 4:\u003c/strong\u003e Like this, absolutely smooth, gliding, yeah it's nice, isn't it?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262311#t=1738.53,1743.91"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262311/transcript/79618/annotation/29","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e I think it's destroying itself. I think its destroying their own illusions. I find it irritating at this point, when I go to the movies.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262311#t=1745.72,1763.56"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262311/transcript/79618/annotation/30","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 3:\u003c/strong\u003e We'll see you all in time for that. Okay, interview with Leacock, September 17th, 3 o'clock.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262311#t=1766.08,1780.27"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262311/transcript/79618/annotation/31","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e Fine, as long as he's predictable. Just as the Supreme Court has tremendous power, and it's fine as long as it's doing the right thing. This is what all the Greek plays were about, practically, and what most of Shakespeare's was. Is what happens when it goes wrong creates absolute terror. Fortinbras is the opposite of Hamlet. He's the guy who, you know, is a good king. He's got to go do this thing, he goes and does it, and you know what he's going to do. And that in any tyranny, when it go out of whack, all hell breaks loose. That's why the Russians understand this. What happened to Stalin? And, you know, they just meant bloodbath. Of tyranny when the morality or the rules are broken. This is what Antigone is about. It breaks the rules, you see. And the idea is that there is an absolute morality which somehow brings things back to normal. And it's very true historically that it takes a while sometimes and millions of people get killed sometimes. But they do destroy themselves. I think mine was the way you interpreted it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262311#t=1784.45,1895.69"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262311/transcript/79618/annotation/32","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Couldn't get that out of us.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262311#t=1896.58,1897.7"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262311/transcript/79618/annotation/33","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, for instance, I like the fact that Polonius is played as a good politician, not as a clown.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262311#t=1897.84,1907.78"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262311/transcript/79618/annotation/34","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e They cut out all the clown scenes of Polonius, I noticed he got away with them.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262311#t=1908.67,1911.69"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262311/transcript/79618/annotation/35","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e But mostly it was in the attitude. I mean, you know, it's funny enough somebody mis-translated in the captions, should be, I can tell a hawk from a hound saw, a houndsaw is a bird, very like a hawke, not a hansaw. I remember there were some extrapolations or something. This time, but I thought Ophelia was more listed down in Madden. But the big problem was, why take a, you know, electrifying clay and turn it into a ponderous ball? That's the problem with me. What you end up with is pretty hard to sit through, I thought. I got itchy as hell. And I just happened to...","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262311#t=1911.82,1955.95"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262311/transcript/79618/annotation/36","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e To prefer the fly. Well, my feeling is we were in the middle of something between a transposition between theater and film.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262311#t=1955.98,1962.4"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262311/transcript/79618/annotation/37","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e But in a film theater, all these films of Shakespeare plays, without exception in my mind, are basically comic book versions of Shakespeare. And the pictures are nowhere near as good as the words, and why bother with it, is my feeling. Stick to the theater.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262311#t=1963.15,1980.87"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262311/transcript/79618/annotation/38","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e No, I think this is even apropos to our problem here. What is, you know, what is propo of the propo cinema, you now? And it seemed to me that finally Olivier was nearer to it than anyone else, no matter what you would say of his interpretation of Shakespeare. But the idea of trying to transmit a play through the medium of film, His solution was to keep it apl...","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262311#t=1979.74,2005.82"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262311/transcript/79618/annotation/39","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 3:\u003c/strong\u003e He seemed to govern, he seemed to guard the unities, you see. To me, well, Olivia...","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262311#t=2007.98,2015.0"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262311/transcript/79618/annotation/40","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e To me, as well as to Olivia, I'd say that the closest is Castelloni.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262311#t=2013.37,2017.07"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262311/transcript/79618/annotation/41","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e I told you, it's easy.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262311#t=2019.9,2020.76"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262311/transcript/79618/annotation/42","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 3:\u003c/strong\u003e Broke it out, broke it down with this luscious, beautiful, beautiful photographer, this beautiful setting, but I felt that it overwhelmed Romeo and Juliet.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262311#t=2021.23,2030.97"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262311/transcript/79618/annotation/43","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e Oh, I don't think... I think that, for instance, as far as Olivier threw Portnum Brass out altogether and made it into a modern psychological allegory. Now that's another thing. It's a terrible distortion. From that standpoint...","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262311#t=2031.46,2043.66"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262311/transcript/79618/annotation/44","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e From that standpoint, the Russian hand was more interesting, I think. But I'm talking about the whole problem of trying to get theater through the screen, you see. It seemed to me that Mr. Koz- whatever it is, Koznozeth or something, was fighting with himself somehow. He was trying to make it filmic by making it somehow real, and then moving it from that real era into an action film.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262311#t=2043.07,2070.69"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262311/transcript/79618/annotation/45","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, I find shots of wives and things and horses tromping around. I just find it erotic. But, for instance, Castellani in Romeo and Juliet. Kept it, for instance, the soliloquies in Romeo and Juliet were directly to camera, which is where soliloquis should be, in my mind. They weren't stream of consciousness, they were, we are now going to discuss the plies as a plot. And for instance the thing that was brilliant in Castellani was, Shakespeare has a habit of assuming that his producers are going to understand theater in its essence. I think it's an arrogant thing to say, but. Some of the hardest characters have very few lines and some of the most important and the equivalent of Fortinbras in Romeo and Juliet is the duke who appears as I remember it only at the beginning and the end. At the beginning he sets down the law he says this must not continue or I'll get mad and at the end he says okay um yeah some of his punishers and mother plane. He does it in surreptitutical brilliant. I'm fam-","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262311#t=2068.5,2149.24"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262311/transcript/79618/annotation/46","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 4:\u003c/strong\u003e Fantastic entrance statement","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262311#t=2149.48,2151.0"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262311/transcript/79618/annotation/47","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e and exit. And you remember when the bodies are lying at the end, and the families wailing over them, and you suddenly hear these fast footsteps and the rustling of silks. And you go up and there's this fantastic procession, brilliant image. And he says, boom, boom BOOM! I'm gone. Now that's... ...Surely fair though. That is, the impact of the character is in the mode of presentation of him. It's just brought in, wham, like that. It doesn't have to be a long speech. Doesn't have to examine his navel or anything. That's not his role. And the same thing with Fortinbras. Fortinbrass's entrance shouldn't be a rabble walking down a beach. Same thing with the Fortinbraff. It should be the, like the marine's arriving. What you're saying is...","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262311#t=2151.96,2203.72"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262311/transcript/79618/annotation/48","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e What you are saying, essentially, I believe, is that when you have a theatrical material, you must deal with it and find the theatrical means of keeping it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262311#t=2202.62,2212.0"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262311/transcript/79618/annotation/49","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e Fear in a film. Right, there's so many all the marvelous things. I mean, Romeo and Juliet runs into each other. The ball? Instead of having a huge party the way every other film Romeo and Joliet had, he had what it says in the play, a score of friends, 20 people. So that when he walks into that room, it's mad enough. Everybody in that room is aware of it. Except her. Well these are... And it's just whistling.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262311#t=2213.39,2240.85"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262311/transcript/79618/annotation/50","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e These are, of course, the capillaries from where his interpretations of the play itself are very fine. But about the problem of transposition, it would have been inadmissible, would it not, if this whole thing had been played in front of theatrical decor. Now why, if I can assume that the cinema must have somehow real or real-seeming decor? Why does this still remain theatrical? Why does this fit? Why does it work that way? Why can we not use theatrical setting? We, by the way, you know, see what I'm trying to get at? I'd like to give you an idea.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262311#t=2242.18,2288.79"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262311/transcript/79618/annotation/51","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, I think this comes back to the thing that we were examining before, the two directions. Um, cinema has wedded itself to a sort of s-up, stony realism, which is sort of a result of the fact that it does reproduce faces and rooms, staircases and automobiles and things, so realistically. And... And now you've got it getting more and more and more realistic until you've ended up with you know and where do you go from there and now you got this reaction against it I think a reaction toward theatricality or non-realism where and I think the tremendous flapping around do you think with an info.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262311#t=2290.37,2339.84"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262311/transcript/79618/annotation/52","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Do you think that there's anything inherently in the film, in the fact that it's a photographic medium, which implies that, at least in substance, what is photographed must be, in a sense, real. I'm thinking, for instance, of the horrible, funny, terrible thing that was Oedipus Rex of Tyrone Guthrie. Do you ever see this film?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262311#t=2339.09,2365.89"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262311/transcript/79618/annotation/53","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e No, I was asked to film it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262311#t=2366.65,2367.89"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262311/transcript/79618/annotation/54","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e I didn't. It came off as completely airsats there. It was being staged, production, photograph, on the stage, with masks, cathernists, the whole bit. And the whole the tremendously ponderous fashion that the people spoke behind these masks. Well, I found it a dreadful bore and felt a little... 30 years ago I was born. We were talking about getting theatrical lessons to a real decor as against the use of theatrical decor itself. And I was using, citing the example of the set of this rex, which you said you were going to film, but didn't. Now, quite apart from the interpretation problems with play or whatever, it seemed to me that there was a degalage, there was pulling apart constantly between the film medium. And the properties that were being presented to us before. This is something of the problem that Olivia was getting at in Henry V, by moving through the film theater, honestly, to a higher transposition of it, as he moved into the interior of the play.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262311#t=2368.12,2457.15"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262311/transcript/79618/annotation/55","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e I'd sort of like this, but then he got into a terrible problem in that where in the Duke of Burgundy speech","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262311#t=2458.68,2464.92"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262311/transcript/79618/annotation/56","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e I think he's talking about the horrors of war, and the destruction of its walls, the countryside. He moves out and he pans down a painted backdrop.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262311#t=2468.78,2477.06"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262311/transcript/79618/annotation/57","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e Of the rotted badger, which now that speech, as far as I'm concerned, paints a brilliant or terrible picture of what has happened or contrary. And those pictures did nothing of the kind. They forded it, they destroyed it. They said in effect, this is what he's talking about. They prettified it. It's all nonsense. Um, you know, that's no sort of problem. Couple of kids with a couple of smudges on their faces and these pictures of ruined walls and those things. You're talking about something much worse than that, I think. Um, um... That's a very good... No, I thing more interesting is in, say, for instance, in Eight and a Half, where... You start to lose the sense of reality without it being... Um, it's not canvas, but here the setting is beginning to have a theatrical function, which is not bad, of just being real. In fact, it is quite unreal.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262311#t=2478.48,2546.61"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262311/transcript/79618/annotation/58","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Sense, where it has used a real setting, but has turned it into a theatrical sense.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262311#t=2549.26,2556.16"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262311/transcript/79618/annotation/59","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e No, I think it's way, way beyond Castellani. Castellini was quite traditional, in a sense. His films, Do We Sold His Speranza, was a neo-realistic film. I mean, everything was real, um, you know, real chairs and real tables and things, but in Eight and a Half, you're beginning to get something very different. This is what René is playing with. This is, well, practically all the guys that are looking for a way out of the trap of realism. Are playing with these things. Suddenly, what Sweden is doing, Vagman. But there's a tremendous amount of flapping around now, looking for answers to this problem. What these people are doing, Fellini, René, all of these...","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262311#t=2557.66,2607.4"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262311/transcript/79618/annotation/60","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 3:\u003c/strong\u003e We're moving away from a, let's say, a literal presentation, still recognize the","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262311#t=2607.98,2615.8"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262311/transcript/79618/annotation/61","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e of using a basic material, reality. I don't think Rene does.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262311#t=2616.97,2622.17"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262311/transcript/79618/annotation/62","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e I think it's the most realistic film. Well, I haven't seen yours. Well, all right, let's take a look. I was thinking Marienbad. All right, Marienbad. You nevertheless know that this is a shot. This is kind of a trap. Well, it's sort of a shot, though. But you know that these are real bricks and all these things, and that somehow...","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262311#t=2624.13,2646.29"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262311/transcript/79618/annotation/63","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e Been transposed. When you come around the corner, you don't know what the hell he's going to find. I'm not saying that he's successful, I'm saying this is what he's searching around for. In Hiroshima, it seems to me that he solved it in a different way by abolishing his hero, or one of the main characters, as far as I was concerned, was the dead soldier, you know, It's like the old Jesus plays, and Jesus never appears. He's always in the warning sort of thing. Essentially what we're...","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262311#t=2647.03,2682.74"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262311/transcript/79618/annotation/64","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Around with here is this idea, though, of what is the proper material.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262311#t=2682.97,2688.53"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262311/transcript/79618/annotation/65","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e That we must use if we're to go in any direction, so. Well, I guess what I'm saying is that at the moment, there are two very strong directions and they're diametrically opposite directions. What we're playing with, and what the theatrical film is playing with.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262311#t=2689.52,2706.98"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262311/transcript/79618/annotation/66","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Problems that I have had to deal with my own psyche and I'm having to deal It seems to me that, nevertheless, no matter how you brush it, we're talking about our basic, basic material here, you see. A material that somehow is different from the material that was being used in the 30s. In the 30's, you know, that the setting of material was called set, which was called lighting. I, uh, it seems to me that finally the key to whatever direction, whatever direction you're going is, has to do something, has something to do with how... Unbelievable is what we're seeing on the screen, as objects, the material, the people. We're just kind of fighting with this thing here. And it seems that finally, everything to me is a style. Whether it's a realistic style or an authentic style, as it is what I would call what you're dealing with. Authentic in the sense of using real things, things that actually happen. Or whether it's an expressionistic style, such as Kuznetso, or whatever his name is. Used in Hamlet. It was pure expressionism. He had his actors making gestures that fit the decor, you know, in the composition. It's just, once you substitute a stage set for what we've seen on the screen, the whole thing begins to fall apart, you know.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262311#t=2778.74,2891.12"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262311/transcript/79618/annotation/67","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e Hmm, I'm not sure, I'll figure it out. It seems to me that, that, the, the... At first, it's like films on three levels. That what we're seeing in this new direction in theatrical filming is new. God knows it's been cropping up, you know, all over the place for years with everything from Caligari, Nevsky, a lot of the Japanese ones. Which I was going to say is sort of, in literary analogy, this is getting closer to what poetry does. Where cinema becomes the evocative rather than the didactic, this is what happened. This is the way it felt. This is how it sounded. This is, these are the impressions. Um, within a very realistic framework, but Ben Charlie is the most profoundly poetic and evocative film, rather than even though, you know, it had real images, real trees, real palms and things, the way that he was using these materials was, was in the poetic sense, an evocation in the audience of, of... Sort of a stimulating of your own reactions to these things. The key to Pather Panchali or the old trilogy can be... Well, I don't count, no, I won't take the trilogy. Only Pather Panchali was this true of. The others are perfectly straightforward motion pictures, as far as I'm concerned. Traditional films as compared to Pathers.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262311#t=2894.17,3015.54"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262311/transcript/79618/annotation/68","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Resembles, I think that the most resemblance is between a Parajito and...","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262311#t=3016.73,3020.27"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262311/transcript/79618/annotation/69","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e About Charlie. I don't think so. I think it was a totally different, that's a perfectly normal, well-made film. But I think the fundamental is operating the support.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262311#t=3021.03,3032.61"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262311/transcript/79618/annotation/70","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Sorry. Drawing Poets. Paz and Panchali is the film that made me want to live, you know. This is the kind of thing that made me see... What I wanted to do.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262311#t=3032.97,3044.3"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262311/transcript/79618/annotation/71","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e Do, actually. But in the second one, right away, there was the telling of a story. And it did so logically, one, two, three, four, one two three four, like any other theatrical film. And so, you know, in the telling the story, there were evocative scenes, or effective scenes, I'd call them rather, and there were some less effective scenes. But, in wildly, you know, way off from any story sense. There was just a sense of, of experiencing, sensing and smelling the dragonfly flying along the lower stage. All the kids when they go to see the train. It has nothing to do with the telling of a story. But it did, in a sense. Well, I mean, it's not an entry. In a very different sense. But a deepening of a feeling. And this, to me, is much closer to, to... In the equivalent of eight and a half, where he's creating a sense, a feeling, an atmosphere, rather than telling, again, rather than a one, two, three, then we did this, and then we did that, and we did the other thing, which is the very logic of motion picture storytelling.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262311#t=3044.33,3118.3"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262311/transcript/79618/annotation/72","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e You're saying that you feel that something closer to what the propo of film is to the goat, is it the evocative aspect?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262311#t=3118.97,3127.03"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262311/transcript/79618/annotation/73","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e I'm saying that this is what is happening now, that we're getting more and more, I think, in less to work.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262311#t=3128.64,3135.58"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262311/transcript/79618/annotation/74","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Now you made a statement last time, we were talking about Shirley Clark's Cool World, and you said that you preferred the operatic ballet direction of creating film, to a kind of operation of fake reality, or reality recreated, you know, and made, passed off as having actually happened. Now, wouldn't you say that this criticism might apply to Pather Panchali, which you like? It might also apply very much to the neorealism, the neorrealist film, such as Bicycle Thief from Bear to the D, in many cases. In this case, if you wanted to be logical, you'd have to throw them out, you know.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262311#t=3137.11,3184.29"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262311/transcript/79618/annotation/75","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e No, I don't think so. To me, because of LaCasse and Charlie's, in a sense, lack of telling a story, what did it do? It was sort of an experience, an evocation of a different realm of life.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262311#t=3184.97,3206.05"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262311/transcript/79618/annotation/76","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e These were actors and he was having them play in a realist authentic style they were behaving authentically they might have very well been people before your camera and with a with a certain","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262311#t=3207.8,3224.7"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262311/transcript/79618/annotation/77","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e attention to the fact that the camera did not move as much. What was extraordinary in the film was the image poetry, basically what it was, of the creation of these fabulously weird little scenes that had no logical importance of storytelling meaning.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262311#t=3225.03,3245.75"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262311/transcript/79618/annotation/78","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Appearances of fireflies at night after the death of the man, to express the death. Was this being in line with what you were, it seems to me to be the quality that was in that event, Charlie, you know, this finding in nature the expressive aspect of what was finding significance in the show.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262311#t=3251.27,3271.37"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262311/transcript/79618/annotation/79","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e Um, but it was an almost isolated thing. All right. But I mean, in fact, I'm sure I can't think of the one exam.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262311#t=3276.64,3283.66"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262311/transcript/79618/annotation/80","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e But there was he was full of it. I know this kind of","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262311#t=3283.97,3286.63"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262311/transcript/79618/annotation/81","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 4:\u003c/strong\u003e The lawyer didn't express it that way.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262311#t=3288.53,3290.03"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262311/transcript/79618/annotation/82","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Duga's death being in beauty rather than in terror, the death coming from the rain which she loved, this whole thing which poured over, it had a very cosmic quality about it, a pantheist aspect.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262311#t=3291.48,3309.26"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262311/transcript/79618/annotation/83","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, the thing I like, in a sense, is that I hate to assign any values to these things. Just roll them up and enjoy them. In a sense that I wouldn't like to spell out what any of them meant, particularly, a lot of it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262311#t=3312.44,3328.26"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262311/transcript/79618/annotation/84","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e I think we're nevertheless getting at what is, finally, a tremendous power of film, and that is to be able to use reality in a creative way, you see. Whether this reality be recreated or captured on the hoof, you know, on a sovet, to bring it. For me, Piazza Pancelli was so close to Capice Versone, in many ways. This finding of the expressive thing... Seemed to really exist in bringing it into juxtaposition with something else so that one thing played off another.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262311#t=3330.65,3365.34"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262311/transcript/79618/annotation/85","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e Again, this was a sort of a poetic visual exploration, and this is something that cannot be done by clues, by scriptwriters, it just doesn't work that. You've got to find those images and you've got make them work. And this is the the the poetry of an inspired man searching with an eye but he's recreating everything so uh he's not getting the most exciting things in that film or sense of scarcely we created what about the scene that when","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262311#t=3369.87,3416.79"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262311/transcript/79618/annotation/86","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e mother does not have to announce the death of Duga to the father who comes back, all he says is I brought this sari for Duga and she grabs it, bites it, falls down and the father comprehends immediately. This could have been a tremendously loquacious scene in reality but here through activity and through artistic. He managed to express a thing in tremendous poetic fashion, and yet kept every bit of the flavor of authenticity about it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262311#t=3420.49,3458.33"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262311/transcript/79618/annotation/87","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e One of the only scenes that I really didn't like in that was the finding of the necklace. Why? Why did you? It broke the whole spirit of the film. Do you think it was just forgotten, like everything else? Because it was a, it seemed to be brought in from left to right. It was a corny piece of nonsense. It was totally irrelevant to settle this question. Almost destroyed it. Funny, it was the one real... Sort of a shocking groove to me in the phone. I'd say, oh my God, it's a bloody movie. All right. The world sounds, hmm, not happy.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262311#t=3462.81,3507.21"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262311/transcript/79618/annotation/88","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e I remember that. It seemed to me to be on purpose, and that was the thing that condemned it. But then we're talking about an error in...","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262311#t=3508.65,3515.57"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262311/transcript/79618/annotation/89","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e In judgment, and so on. We're not talking about a style, they say. Well, it was a reversion into an old form, I think. Storytelling. Yeah, the way it's supposed to be. You're supposed to dot your eyes, cross your teeth, sort of a dreadful, great big blotchy period.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262311#t=3516.04,3538.76"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262311/transcript/79618/annotation/90","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Wouldn't you think that there would be some future in a film which will operate it totally? Through preconception as this film did. I mean, a preconception in the sense that he knew what he was going to film.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262311#t=3540.51,3558.79"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262311/transcript/79618/annotation/91","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e Try. I'm not trying to pin you down, I'm trying to get something out of you. Let me try this. Whatever form, or the reality, or whatever, when I get intrigued, both in theater and in all forms of film, or even in education, is where I'm given is centrally authentic, not real. But, um... I'm given a whole array of things, words or images or sounds, whatever it is. Which... Where I can start to find something out myself. Where I'm not being told something. This is when it gets exciting to me. The moment I sense that I'm being told the answer, I tend to get, to start rejecting it. You know, who's telling me? The more of the sun... When I really start to dig a play or a film, is when I start to be able, I say this is, this is so right. Whatever it is I'm experiencing, that I can begin to find something else from this, the way one can from actual experiences. One can start to find things out. One can stop to, to, too, to put things together in one's own head, and make one's own logic, and draw one's' own conclusions, and find one's morality. Promotes one's experience. And this is where it starts to work for me.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262311#t=3559.97,3683.109"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262311/transcript/79618/annotation/92","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e But in any way, the fact that we cannot be sure that things are really like that, as we see in Patrick McFarlane, although it gives every impression, convincing us, I mean it convinces us that things are that way, but the fact we cannot sure as we can in your film, for instance, we can be pretty well sure that she said that at that moment and did that at moment and this was her doing, let me see. Uh...","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262311#t=3685.39,3715.319"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262311/transcript/79618/annotation/93","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e Can I find anything else? Yeah, a lot of people, that's a pity I've been meaning to talk to Al Maisel. But I have a feeling that Al is sort of making a religion virtue of merely looking. Just looking at everything. Looking everywhere. And in some place in an article I use the limerick today. You know, my favorite limerick, in relation to Mr. Liebkopf, when I was writing cinema, and I came from a book by Sir Art Riddington on cosmology, I think. I don't know where he got it. There once was a brainy baboon who always breathed down a persoon, but he said it appears that in billions of years I will certainly hit on a tune. This is the great danger of free cinema, or however you want to call it. Just, you know, my, well it actually happened. Well, this is the way it happened. Um, so what? What I don't know, is it interesting? Is there the basis here for finding something out? As opposed to the awful feeling that I've gotten in so many recent past plays and films where I'm being told that this is the way, that this the moral, and this is the bad man, this is a good man. I want to watch people, but I've got to... Get a view of it, whether it's in a play, or in direct cinema, or however it's done. Firstly, I've got to believe that this is the way people behave for dealing with people. Then I've go to be, you know, I got to have insurance. I mean, I have got sense that whoever is, if it's been...","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262311#t=3717.72,3857.47"}]},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262311/transcript/79618","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["English [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141779/file/262311/transcript/79618/annotation/94","type":"Annotation","motivation":"subtitling","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/file_transcripts/associated_files/000/079/618/original/trint_Coll458_jb0030_Leacock_02_transcript.vtt?1747153144","format":"text/vtt","language":"en"},"target":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/file_transcripts/associated_files/000/079/618/original/trint_Coll458_jb0030_Leacock_02_transcript.vtt?1747153144"}]}]}]}