{"@context":"http://iiif.io/api/presentation/3/context.json","id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/iiif/2n4zg6hp97/manifest","type":"Manifest","label":{"en":["Interview with Johan Van Der Keuken \"Dutch Film Introduction…\" [1/4-in. magnetic audiotape], June 1965"]},"logo":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/029/original/uo-logo-hires.png?1580744881","metadata":[{"label":{"en":["Description"]},"value":{"en":["1 sound tape reel : 1.875 ips; 5 in. 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Well, you said that. You said you didn't feel that the feature phone was much or was really any more in existence as a as a thing. We talked about the cliches. Yeah. The cliche, the Western, the cliche.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395#t=8.63,24.81"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395/transcript/76731/annotation/3","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Of the news of.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395#t=25.74,26.28"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395/transcript/76731/annotation/4","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e Like, almost a mythology of the new, of a.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395#t=26.46,28.34"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395/transcript/76731/annotation/5","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eUnidentified:\u003c/strong\u003e Kind of thing.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395#t=29.67,29.94"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395/transcript/76731/annotation/6","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e So I really in feature films, I don't see many. What do we get something. Yeah, I, I really don't see many forms, many forms coming up, many individual, individual forms. I have a little bit of feeling that you can you can put people in that basically. You have maybe ten positions for the actors in the in front of the camera, and it's very hard to get away from those positions. Basically, when you have two actors, one will be on the left of the screen and the other one on the right. And all you try to do is to get away from these basic positions. And so what they are doing is trying to get to get as far as possible away from it by zooming in, zooming out foreground background.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395#t=35.55,93.39"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395/transcript/76731/annotation/7","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e The new way. Yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395#t=94.14,95.53"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395/transcript/76731/annotation/8","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e They try to. Yeah. Everywhere that they try to make it into a spatial thing. But still you feel the effort they have to make to keep away from this basic position, which in itself is imperative because it's efficient.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395#t=96.3,112.35"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395/transcript/76731/annotation/9","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Because it's efficient. Yeah. They're also trying for one other thing though, is I be like, hey.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395#t=113.3,120.59"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395/transcript/76731/annotation/10","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Let's valid. That's very valid.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395#t=121.4,123.89"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395/transcript/76731/annotation/11","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e The who and and there's, there's a whole thing of it. Every time I come to a cut, you have the feeling that you're shattering the world, you know? Oh, and that if you start with the language of cuts, silence. You're no longer in a in a in a temporal language. At least your time is something else. Who you're talking about. Ready now. Ready. Head all.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395#t=124.22,150.77"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395/transcript/76731/annotation/12","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e You cut all over the place. But he's not dealing with the duty. Well, maybe he's he's dealing with everything which is not do they. And so like the the lover of paradoxes says he sometimes you. So sometimes you get a condensed feeling of duty. For instance, when the man sings the song is.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395#t=151.7,171.69"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395/transcript/76731/annotation/13","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah, well, that's more or less great, but it's not a fantastic moment.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395#t=172.49,175.91"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395/transcript/76731/annotation/14","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e That is a great bit. Let's get real. The material existence of things and people is brought out of them. What do you.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395#t=176.21,186.38"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395/transcript/76731/annotation/15","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e Think of that moment? You know, this guy Ernest is saying. Yeah, when he's cutting the outsides of.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395#t=186.47,193.52"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395/transcript/76731/annotation/16","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e A lot of people. Stacey, not only last week, but I loved it. Yeah, I didn't get it, but at first I didn't get it. Now I see the the Symbolists, the symbols, the symbolism, the metaphor he made.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395#t=195.08,210.29"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395/transcript/76731/annotation/17","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e It was what? I'm not sure I do.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395#t=211.07,212.84"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395/transcript/76731/annotation/18","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e I think this is a summing up of the theme of his. This is also my my friend Ghosn wrote an article about the new year in which he said that the theme actually was the taking over of the the old places, the the, the the, the historical, the traditions, the roots and the grounds these people had was taken over by some outer skin. You know, of those new buildings, a kind of timeless society. This process. Process timeless and personality less society. Yeah. And so he uses I think. This intercut he uses as a summing up of this theme song is about I think all this time go and all the time goes and your life is short, you die and you get this kind of you. Yeah, but you feel very well anyway. You don't have to explain. You feel very well. What he's aiming at is a great bit. But you see there he has destroyed the notion of feature film. Yeah. That's a marvelous thing. In what sense? If you have an action going on and he cuts in buildings, which is the perfect thing to destroy any action, to take in elements that have nothing to do with it. And he still he makes it go fantastic. Oh, I didn't like boy in there, but that's another that's that's a different thing I did. Just didn't like. Him. I don't know, but but I'm saying I like God interest me very, very little because I feel that the guy is breaking his head to get away from the fuel efficient positions in which in which you can, can take people when you want them to say a line or something to the others.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395#t=214.1,336.7"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395/transcript/76731/annotation/19","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e Also changing the continuity and changing the structure.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395#t=337.12,339.37"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395/transcript/76731/annotation/20","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e That's interesting. But I think in these I think the change in structure, I felt that best in the films of the films I saw in Abu two flu and in fever. So V where you saw the thing is a progression in time that is a or a progression, not a progression. The contrary of progression, an exposure in time. Yeah, yeah. And the.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395#t=340.63,367.83"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395/transcript/76731/annotation/21","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e Measles in time which is not which.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395#t=367.92,370.02"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395/transcript/76731/annotation/22","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e You need to. Yeah. In time and and the whole notion of mise en scene was far far sub dominated. You say dominated by this idea. But in those films which are considered now typical Godard's and like information from and mount bond up and what have you in other words to maybe.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395#t=371.1,397.11"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395/transcript/76731/annotation/23","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e Having in.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395#t=397.66,398.06"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395/transcript/76731/annotation/24","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e The coming year did seem to maybe they're just taken over by the notion of mise en scene. And I hated To wash the shit out of it, because there you really feel that the guy, he could, you know, you have one line of dialog and a walk around the room eight times, and then you have the next line, and I really have the feeling that, hey, he could have. Given us the same information and given us the same, not the same impression, but in an expression of his feelings in maybe one shot done or something and just. You know, you were in one tenth of the of the time because there is not even in do they do it. It just he he makes people do something. I have a feeling it is around and around. But yeah, I think it's a bit I started.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395#t=398.52,456.96"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395/transcript/76731/annotation/25","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e With in private, but.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395#t=457.32,458.49"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395/transcript/76731/annotation/26","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah, I hated it, I hate it. It's funny to look at when you see it again. You telephone. Yeah Yeah, yeah. But that really hasn't anything to do with us. Do they. Do you phone the other hand? It's very it's very efficient and especially in his, in his last film production. Yeah. Yeah I think he made for himself a kind of a study reorientation on the efficiency of his means. And it's. And there you have maybe summed up the, the paradox that by getting it efficient, he's coming back to an old, older type of language. And people don't like it because they feel that he's speaking in an old some days you hear from what he. No, but he is real Oriental reorienting himself. And maybe he has somehow, somehow made this discovery that of the efficiency. And so he has gone back to an older form.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395#t=459.48,521.72"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395/transcript/76731/annotation/27","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e Which orders did you see particular condition that.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395#t=524.3,529.49"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395/transcript/76731/annotation/28","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e You did you like? I think the. The terrific neatness. The terrific. Yeah. Efficiency. The terrific communication. No, no. Not communication. I'm talking now about the language. He uses the means. He uses that every every shot. It's. Intellectual. Intellectual motivation was very precise. And still you would get these tremendous warmth would come through from time to time. All of a sudden, he's lyricism. The guy has. And so I think it's tremendous work of. How do you say reconsideration of what he had done, you know, testing his own works. Against. Against this kind of sober setting.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395#t=529.67,585.94"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395/transcript/76731/annotation/29","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e So this is really similar to what this idea of the precision, the precision of the language is. And, you know, like, oh, you could walk within what you're doing, but no. Okay. Yeah. Like.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395#t=586.72,607.56"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395/transcript/76731/annotation/30","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e She is frustrating that to me. Justin.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395#t=612.01,616.65"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395/transcript/76731/annotation/31","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e That's the way I clear the table.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395#t=617.68,619.06"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395/transcript/76731/annotation/32","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eUnidentified:\u003c/strong\u003e Let's. Take a break.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395#t=620.58,625.36"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395/transcript/76731/annotation/33","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e No, but I think. I'm not. I'm not talking about the mise en scene and classical in the classical sense, but. Because I don't know shit about it. But what these guys understand about it is that the mise en scene becomes an expression in itself. So the way these people are placed in space, revolves in space, and evolve in space is more significant. Or is the film itself? It's more significant than the lines they say and all that. Yeah, it's just pure concept of. The bodily expression of these people in space. I thought of it like that. You need to envision the cafe which you have to overcome to follow.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395#t=628.06,688.63"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395/transcript/76731/annotation/34","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah, I just read the script. Yeah. And. But don't you think it's important.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395#t=689.2,701.64"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395/transcript/76731/annotation/35","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eUnidentified:\u003c/strong\u003e All these people have all these issues?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395#t=702.18,705.12"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395/transcript/76731/annotation/36","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e I mean, it seems to be part of the way that things are told. Can you take a long shot of that kid wandering in the woods listening to the birds is all over? You didn't. Say out loud noises in the sun. Will you use it? It couldn't be because it. It's suddenly. It's the first long shot we see in the whole movie. And it comes way through that. And there's a whole sense, right?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395#t=707.61,734.58"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395/transcript/76731/annotation/37","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah. Yeah. Of course the that there is a very, very direct expression of what is happening. But of course, if you, the classical situation would be that the girl says the chick, I love you and runs around seven, 17 times the groom. It's Normally. Normally she would just sit there like a bag of shit. Oh, you say, Jack, I love you when she didn't know.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395#t=735.12,762.75"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395/transcript/76731/annotation/38","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e This is a sort of concentrated effort to make movement.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395#t=763.4,765.84"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395/transcript/76731/annotation/39","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e And Jack, to get away from this basic position. Position. And this basic position is is valid only it's, you know, we know enough of it. So this is, this leads you to and I think that that we fall is a. Must have realized this more or less. So he is coming back to a very efficient position of of actors and cameras. And they just act out what they are on the meaning it is written, the whole thing is written or directed or meanings or whatever. That's it. It's not the guy is not being lyrical about movement or look, he he's just this is happening and he shows it in a very simple way. And then this he integrates into this whole kind of nightmarish mechanical world. And all of his is is planning and zoning and what have you. All of his mise en scene is done on the, on the, on the cars, in the, in the elevator and all that on the, on these.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395#t=766.62,834.89"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395/transcript/76731/annotation/40","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e Technical sides of the machine. Do you think that I mean, you think the two close in is getting back to the very things he criticized when they already did? No.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395#t=835.88,846.62"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395/transcript/76731/annotation/41","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Oh, because he. He doesn't use these things as an automatic kind of as an A. And what he criticized was that things were codified when you had the scene. The setup would be always the same and always the same thing would be happening. But I think he is now he's using He was in this film and was using some. Let's say very simple solutions, very some and personal solutions. And put them in his own optic. Anyway, I'm tired, man.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395#t=847.85,891.23"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395/transcript/76731/annotation/42","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e I don't want to talk anymore. Okay? I'm very tired. If you don't mind. Well, I mean, there's no problem with.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395#t=891.5,904.04"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395/transcript/76731/annotation/43","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Mr. Sennheiser. Yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395#t=912.2,913.35"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395/transcript/76731/annotation/44","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e They got the thing turned off now, but.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395#t=916.13,917.63"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395/transcript/76731/annotation/45","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e It'll turn up on the morning. She took away the flowers and put on.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395#t=919.58,924.02"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395/transcript/76731/annotation/46","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e What was the name of this guy in the.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395#t=925.16,927.56"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395/transcript/76731/annotation/47","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eUnidentified:\u003c/strong\u003e All right. Give him a bath.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395#t=933.22,933.97"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395/transcript/76731/annotation/48","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e Him. The part that sounds like a boy. I hear.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395#t=936.4,941.43"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395/transcript/76731/annotation/49","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Him do. Leper dog. Jesus Christ. I got be good for the booze.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395#t=946.6,951.7"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395/transcript/76731/annotation/50","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eUnidentified:\u003c/strong\u003e Oh, it's all right. Just, just.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395#t=953.98,955.57"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395/transcript/76731/annotation/51","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e What's up? What's the up one?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395#t=963.91,964.84"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395/transcript/76731/annotation/52","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eUnidentified:\u003c/strong\u003e So no fun. Why don't you fight? You know what? They're, like, a little bit naughty with a. Lot to do. What? That. Explain why not? Yeah. We're gonna have trouble getting started.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395#t=965.39,993.1"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395/transcript/76731/annotation/53","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e So you got me in the same problem I do with my card.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395#t=994.45,996.52"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395/transcript/76731/annotation/54","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e I like it. I know you react well.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395#t=998.2,999.37"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395/transcript/76731/annotation/55","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e I can help. You got screwed up. Remember the time that you heard me tell the whole story? Like we have a lot of words. Hello?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395#t=999.97,1012.33"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395/transcript/76731/annotation/56","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Right here. You hear me? Hello? Hello. Hello. Hello? Do you hear me?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395#t=1014.31,1020.13"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395/transcript/76731/annotation/57","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eUnidentified:\u003c/strong\u003e You. Got real good stuff here. That's a pile right here in the background on the Amstel river.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395#t=1021.3,1031.349"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395/transcript/76731/annotation/58","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e The piece de.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395#t=1032.4,1032.91"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395/transcript/76731/annotation/59","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eUnidentified:\u003c/strong\u003e Load. And. The driving pile.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395#t=1033.66,1038.819"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395/transcript/76731/annotation/60","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Oh, by the desert. Listen. Dutch background. There's this little seen.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395#t=1040.89,1046.26"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395/transcript/76731/annotation/61","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e As a kind of dialectic.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395#t=1050.42,1051.02"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395/transcript/76731/annotation/62","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eUnidentified:\u003c/strong\u003e I don't know.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395#t=1065.0,1065.21"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395/transcript/76731/annotation/63","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e It's just funny. I was just thinking, you know. Watch it and work on it. You're not affected by the.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395#t=1066.98,1074.51"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395/transcript/76731/annotation/64","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eUnidentified:\u003c/strong\u003e Rhythm of it. You're. In fact, you can enjoy the rhythm. You work on that? Yeah. You walk in there, you're expecting.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395#t=1074.63,1082.46"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395/transcript/76731/annotation/65","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e And it's sort of like a soothing rhythm. If you look at the side of the number, just so you know, it's like coming your fingers on the tape, it does something.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395#t=1083.75,1094.73"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395/transcript/76731/annotation/66","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eUnidentified:\u003c/strong\u003e To you and you're done. So I think that.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395#t=1095.12,1097.82"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395/transcript/76731/annotation/67","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e With these cars. So.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395#t=1105.41,1106.43"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395/transcript/76731/annotation/68","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eUnidentified:\u003c/strong\u003e You're saying. Boy. Oh, boy.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395#t=1109.61,1123.44"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395/transcript/76731/annotation/69","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e Nothing's happening. Anyway, so you're telling Paul that. Vera. Now you're all excited that we were doing so well in the car.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395#t=1123.62,1133.46"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395/transcript/76731/annotation/70","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eUnidentified:\u003c/strong\u003e We should. Have been recording. Oh, there we are. Hello.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395#t=1133.91,1146.87"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395/transcript/76731/annotation/71","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Hello. Hello. We're still there.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395#t=1158.42,1159.5"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395/transcript/76731/annotation/72","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eUnidentified:\u003c/strong\u003e I'll put it, you know, use it. We.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395#t=1165.0,1168.21"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395/transcript/76731/annotation/73","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, I'm sorry, I'm on the horse. You'll be around to film this. All this noise. Because I would love it. But we at the moment.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395#t=1170.83,1180.94"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395/transcript/76731/annotation/74","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e We hate it. Yeah. That's the difference between the young and the old. Dutch.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395#t=1181.27,1185.23"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395/transcript/76731/annotation/75","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah. Okay.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395#t=1187.61,1188.11"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395/transcript/76731/annotation/76","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eUnidentified:\u003c/strong\u003e But the. This guy for.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395#t=1191.38,1193.66"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395/transcript/76731/annotation/77","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e De la Parra.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395#t=1194.83,1195.07"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395/transcript/76731/annotation/78","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e De la Parra, who made a film before. You can go from just being discussed and being big. Right. So somebody. Say, man. You know, because I think that I don't want I want to come that you don't I do when I cover that. Yeah. Comes back as a sign of. What'd you say was a sign of the action? You know, it's today. Feels good.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395#t=1195.61,1230.29"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395/transcript/76731/annotation/79","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eUnidentified:\u003c/strong\u003e To me. You know. As a sign.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395#t=1230.68,1239.53"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395/transcript/76731/annotation/80","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e It's a sign of us wanting at any price.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395#t=1240.25,1243.25"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395/transcript/76731/annotation/81","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eUnidentified:\u003c/strong\u003e You said that the the journals are making heroes out of where there are now. All right. Yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395#t=1245.74,1254.2"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395/transcript/76731/annotation/82","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah. Some kind of an exchange. These guys and people were longing for something to happen in the field of films. These guys. Express this. This feeling.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395#t=1258.25,1272.86"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395/transcript/76731/annotation/83","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eUnidentified:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, how long you been out under here?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395#t=1275.71,1277.45"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395/transcript/76731/annotation/84","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e I think so. Yeah, well, the baby's got. Two years, I. No, two years? Yeah. And these guys express this longing for something to happen and. And the fact that that they express this was enough to to tickle the American imagination, I think.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395#t=1278.7,1308.31"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395/transcript/76731/annotation/85","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah. The guys from scope express the restaurant.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395#t=1309.51,1311.79"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395/transcript/76731/annotation/86","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah. They said something has got to happen, and we have to produce cheap films and shoot our doors and all that jazz, and. That by itself was, I think, enough. To give the people the hope that something new was happening. You know, even before the guys had gotten out. Any films? Yeah, I'm happy to have chopped some immature fields or 16 or 8. And. Especially this guy got quite a write up from many critics or from several critics before they had seen something from it. Got a write up.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395#t=1312.42,1359.58"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395/transcript/76731/annotation/87","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eUnidentified:\u003c/strong\u003e For the magazine about nine. And so we got right up in the bedroom. Yeah, I see, yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395#t=1359.67,1375.9"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395/transcript/76731/annotation/88","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e And. When his film kind of came out. It was immediately sent to come on that.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395#t=1379.8,1389.97"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395/transcript/76731/annotation/89","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e But the critics see it here when it came out.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395#t=1390.09,1391.98"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395/transcript/76731/annotation/90","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e No and no after it told him immediately.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395#t=1392.28,1395.15"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395/transcript/76731/annotation/91","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395#t=1395.93,1395.93"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395/transcript/76731/annotation/92","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Which is very funny. I know when it was finished without the people here having seen it. Yeah. Which I think is significant. Yeah. Yeah. Because otherwise would be.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395#t=1396.8,1410.42"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395/transcript/76731/annotation/93","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e Very hard for a young guy to get his film.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395#t=1410.57,1412.22"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395/transcript/76731/annotation/94","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e To be shown in the festival and suddenly at the major festivals.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395#t=1414.05,1417.17"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395/transcript/76731/annotation/95","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eUnidentified:\u003c/strong\u003e Because it's been one night.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395#t=1420.38,1421.55"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395/transcript/76731/annotation/96","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e There was a kind of a myth around what he did and. I mean. Yeah. Kind of. This is, you know, this is. This is good. This is good. This is, you know, you've got cinema. Yeah. And so when it came out, it come. It was rather, you know, received without much. I mean, I don't think it was slaughtered.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395#t=1422.69,1448.1"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395/transcript/76731/annotation/97","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e But it was received.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395#t=1448.61,1449.12"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395/transcript/76731/annotation/98","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e You know, just like an on the film. Another little film. Nobody. Nobody paid much attention, I think. And.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395#t=1449.57,1458.54"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395/transcript/76731/annotation/99","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eUnidentified:\u003c/strong\u003e So the Dutch.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395#t=1464.15,1464.48"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395/transcript/76731/annotation/100","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Newspapermen who were there looked very mad at the guys at the slaughter.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395#t=1465.92,1470.12"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395/transcript/76731/annotation/101","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e Of the Dutch people thought.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395#t=1471.44,1472.31"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395/transcript/76731/annotation/102","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e That you guys over there saw that it was a defeat. Yeah, I so they were happy to jump onto it on his next. Oh, yeah. Yeah. You see this whole mechanism, you know, which which goes on in the critics. Yeah. Of course these weren't the best. The best writers. But. Sometimes the guys who were writing in the the biggest papers.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395#t=1473.12,1498.83"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395/transcript/76731/annotation/103","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e Not the best writer, there's never been this big issue.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395#t=1500.99,1503.84"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395/transcript/76731/annotation/104","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e And. Then his film was presented at Adam. And then you get some things. And that wasn't badly received.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395#t=1504.44,1516.32"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395/transcript/76731/annotation/105","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e When was this? Two years ago. No, no. This year.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395#t=1520.25,1523.09"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395/transcript/76731/annotation/106","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Two weeks ago. And then you got in the paper. Some write to say it's still a shitty as it was before, and some saying Clapper finally rehabilitated himself.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395#t=1525.2,1539.54"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395/transcript/76731/annotation/107","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e With the same film.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395#t=1540.74,1541.28"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395/transcript/76731/annotation/108","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e With the same film being rehabilitated himself. He showed that. That they did an injustice to him. From what I get it. It must be a picture that is okay, you know. But in this kind of French thing. Tamara? Yeah. I'm telling you, what I get is the guy must have some kind of a talent. I mean, it's called. Oh, Tamara. Yeah. Tamara. But I'm almost sure I won't like it because. The whole thing, I read about it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395#t=1541.7,1589.18"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395/transcript/76731/annotation/109","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e So she comes sitting on my tape recorder.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395#t=1589.47,1593.56"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395/transcript/76731/annotation/110","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Fantastic. Look at that. You want to eat it? The kind of publicity they made around it is that it was a, you know, unpretentious. Film which just expressed the joy of filming.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395#t=1594.4,1617.44"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395/transcript/76731/annotation/111","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e Express the joy.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395#t=1619.0,1619.51"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395/transcript/76731/annotation/112","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e I'm not interested.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395#t=1621.22,1621.61"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395/transcript/76731/annotation/113","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e And. Yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395#t=1625.69,1626.02"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395/transcript/76731/annotation/114","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e I know I get many of the news of I can't type private jokes, so. Yeah. It was also shot by Vandenburg. Who is the guy who does dark? I don't think I like it is about to go. Who is a guardian? Those round trip boats, you know, in the Amsterdam harbor. And? She has a lot of boyfriends from all kinds of nationalities. That go in the boat. You know. She picks up a lot of boys. And so it's about that kind of, you know, modern girl also.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395#t=1631.81,1685.15"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395/transcript/76731/annotation/115","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e Just goes on. I don't know, what do you think? Do you think this.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395#t=1692.4,1696.54"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395/transcript/76731/annotation/116","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Is a happy film? They want to make.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395#t=1697.75,1700.05"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395/transcript/76731/annotation/117","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eUnidentified:\u003c/strong\u003e What is it about the.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395#t=1703.47,1704.1"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395/transcript/76731/annotation/118","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e But I must say that two years ago he made the film in 16, which was a wild thing. He is a guy from Surinam, from Dutch Guiana. He works much with another guy who comes also from there. And.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395#t=1705.57,1722.4"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395/transcript/76731/annotation/119","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e But yeah, I've never seen this. But I was like, yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395#t=1724.41,1727.92"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395/transcript/76731/annotation/120","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eUnidentified:\u003c/strong\u003e That's what I was gonna say. Okay.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395#t=1730.02,1738.19"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395/transcript/76731/annotation/121","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e You got screwed, but.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395#t=1738.96,1739.59"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395/transcript/76731/annotation/122","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eUnidentified:\u003c/strong\u003e Though. He doesn't know whether to put himself Billy first. You know what you're gonna do?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395#t=1745.56,1770.67"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395/transcript/76731/annotation/123","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e He made a wild film. He's shooting. Yeah. He's gay. And you know that we all that he worked was another guy who was also from that era, and. Can you go over there. They have also a kind of freedom movement called freedom movement. Independence and all that shit already too, are fairly independent, but. And these but they have this very small place, you know, and they have a kind of movement for independence. Though at the moment I have the feeling it isn't exploited on the colonial level. It is just a kind of Commonwealth ideal. Yeah I know. But these guys. Identify very much with this kind of revolutionary Castro bit. Yeah. Castro. And so they made a film which was called Megalopolis. Megalopolis.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395#t=1787.56,1848.03"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395/transcript/76731/annotation/124","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eUnidentified:\u003c/strong\u003e How do you call. M e g.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395#t=1849.57,1856.01"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395/transcript/76731/annotation/125","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e A l o b o l is the megalopolis megalopolis. And this was about a guy from Sudan, colored guy living here and looking for any kind of identification in that society and getting only just entered that society now, and they follow him on election day. If the Dutch the Dutch government election, he hangs around in the cities. He takes part in a demonstration in The Hague, offshoot of the guys from Surinam against the army, against the. The soon embassy, you see, because they had cut off the studies of one one student who was very left wing, some out there. And so what was interesting in this film, it had some kind of a. I don't remember much of it because it was very, very lousy and disorganized here very easily. They just it was made on the theory that you should put you should do no editing. You should leave anything in it, you see. So in the camera film something and that goes all around the place. And even though I wanted to leave the numbers and all that shit. And you know that picture. Yeah. But still. And then I had the commentary, which was very much full of hate, and somehow it came off, you know, it was underexposed. You know, half of the time you didn't see shit, you know, it just gray. Dark gray. Yeah. I thought the damage was shot out of photo. I don't know what. Something like 40 minutes ago. And then they had this kind of hot, hateful commentary. And somehow it was not a film you could have a judgment about because you know, something else just. But somehow some kind of fire came off, you know? And I found it very interesting because this is the first thing the guy did. He showed it in some kind of student film festival. And in general, people didn't like it except for one newspaper critic. But it was interesting because it was really and a lot of guts to it. And but later I became irritated because these guys are really also putting that up as a publicity. But, you know, the left wing, you know, the young left wing guy and the freedom for the freedom for South America, you know, they used that as a kind of. At least I have a feeling it's a kind of publicity bit. Yeah. And so in this art Amara, which is apparently very sleek. Money.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395#t=1856.4,2038.24"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395/transcript/76731/annotation/126","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e You see what? What needle was stuck there? So much on his neck? Well.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395#t=2039.59,2047.01"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395/transcript/76731/annotation/127","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e I figured that none of that, that kind of thing. But they put, for instance, you had even seen it in the in the image, you know, as if you had an extra even. In all kinds of well known people who he had this extras.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395#t=2048.989,2063.44"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395/transcript/76731/annotation/128","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eUnidentified:\u003c/strong\u003e That's kind of like in those races, but also.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395#t=2066.38,2070.55"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395/transcript/76731/annotation/129","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e I would but but what I can say here is this is, you know, this is a funny thing between them. I mean, the Q thing is anything but left.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395#t=2072.44,2082.219"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395/transcript/76731/annotation/130","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Wing, you know, there's no some left with Q is very complicated. I think there's some left, left wing right to see that.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395#t=2082.46,2088.79"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395/transcript/76731/annotation/131","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e But I mean, the taste, you know.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395#t=2089.51,2090.469"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395/transcript/76731/annotation/132","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e And like the guy who wrote about Oklahoma House, there's a fairy.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395#t=2092.15,2095.63"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395/transcript/76731/annotation/133","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e Tale family, a.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395#t=2096.08,2096.98"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395/transcript/76731/annotation/134","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Fairly left wing taste. What if you could call a left wing taste? But I think that. What you see is all mixed up because. Well, not from what I hear. Right. Yeah. From what I hear about this, Tamara, it is something I dislike very much. Yeah, but but I can I cannot put it together with this first film, which has had a kind of real hate to it. And a real. I felt that there was some truth in it. The guy's looking for an identity, a piece in point of identification in the Dutch society And just wasn't there. Only at the end finds a Dutch girl, and I was treated very dryly. Just a film like this, to drink a bottle of milk, that's all. And this kind of very camp thing. That must be a new film. I haven't seen it, but it must be like that. I saw photos, I saw. It's a publicity made for it. It is. Comments. About. I couldn't figure it out what he's trying to do.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395#t=2097.49,2183.25"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395/transcript/76731/annotation/135","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e What about the mentality of the the officials.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395#t=2184.03,2186.55"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395/transcript/76731/annotation/136","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eUnidentified:\u003c/strong\u003e In the government that would the.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395#t=2187.09,2190.04"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395/transcript/76731/annotation/137","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e I would take this guy's film just without ever having seen it or.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395#t=2192.65,2197.32"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395/transcript/76731/annotation/138","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eUnidentified:\u003c/strong\u003e Anything and sent it to Cannes. What does that represent? It must be a good test. I mean.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395#t=2197.41,2205.93"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395/transcript/76731/annotation/139","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e Anxiety to get something Dutch on the lock and then.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395#t=2206.44,2209.26"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395/transcript/76731/annotation/140","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Oh, it's completely fucked up. At one hand, these guys have always protected the older guys and the kind of documentary like the industrial documentary. I think in their heart they like that very much because of the play, like the pounding pile driver. They liked that shit and they liked a piece of craftsmanship. Like like the electronics thing, you know, solid craftsmanship. And so they never get hung up because it's good work if you like it or not. It's good work. Yeah, yeah. And so throughout the years, I have tried to protect this kind of thing against the wild music. And then. But in the time when I came back from Idec, they felt they, they started to feel that they would need something new. 58 5860 60 around this time. So maybe people have told them you should have a new generation because these guys are just going to die out and move.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395#t=2210.19,2274.26"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395/transcript/76731/annotation/141","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e But the new wave started here. No.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395#t=2275.13,2277.23"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395/transcript/76731/annotation/142","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e And so they very hesitantly, you know, they let people work very, very hesitantly.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395#t=2278.52,2283.47"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395/transcript/76731/annotation/143","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e Up to then nobody was. There was no one new in the field. Don't worry.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395#t=2284.34,2287.37"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395/transcript/76731/annotation/144","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e That's fine. You know, just maybe Slater, who had the only deck, who was three years older than I know, that there was a there's a good documentary maker, but who is new and, I don't know, the guy was a very wild mentality. I mean, he's just a guy who doesn't make change in image field. And. So in the 60s. So this all went very hesitantly. And I think in 63. Yeah, 63 came out of scope. These guys made a lot of noise, and by then they.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395#t=2287.85,2325.05"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395/transcript/76731/annotation/145","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e Had had no background on chapter eight millimeter films.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395#t=2325.2,2327.3"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395/transcript/76731/annotation/146","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e And yeah, there's a film school, you know, and these were the first to come out of this film school. And these guys started right away to make a hell of a lot of noise. And so they got people interested, you see, because starting from maybe 58, some people were thinking that we might have need some new filmmaking. Right. But. Before 63, the government never did much about it. You see, they said, well, send me the scenario or something. And when you submitted the scenario, they would say, well, this is too far out. She saw the government was playing this kind of a double scene at a time. You see, this is what happened to me all the time. They say, well, we need a new generation. Yeah. Submit some stuff. Here. We are interested. And when you submitted something they would say, well, this is too far out. This is not this is not the way it should be technically, or, you know, some shitty remark like this or this is no, this doesn't guarantee any success, you see. So they wanted to accept experimental cinema and all that kind of thing. Young living cinema without paying for it, without taking any risk, you see. So this is what happened to me up till today. You see up to date and well, they, they say go you. So you say go ahead and. Be yourself, be you. And when you, when you try they said yeah withdraw. They get scared. Let's get out of here.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395#t=2327.96,2431.3"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395/transcript/76731/annotation/147","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eUnidentified:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah, man. Anyway. So.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395#t=2432.05,2438.38"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395/transcript/76731/annotation/148","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e So we're talking about the government. Yeah. Well, so what happened to me in general outlines is this that first I, they sent me to edict. Oh, they sent me, they gave me let's call a ship, let's say a part of a scholarship to study over there and. You know, in order to have, you know, to start building up a new generation of moving. That was the reason they sent you? Yeah. This was, you know, the way they motivated. They're giving money, you know, like, if they gave money to some other guys. And so when I came back, I submitted, they asked me to submit stuff, but then they would say, well. It is two days or two that, you know, And I think so.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395#t=2444.08,2499.87"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395/transcript/76731/annotation/149","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eUnidentified:\u003c/strong\u003e They don't turn it down most of the time. You know.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395#t=2500.32,2505.93"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395/transcript/76731/annotation/150","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e For good or bad reasons. But I think when you send somebody out to, to learn how to make films, that you should give him the opportunity to, to make films, you know, and maybe to make five bad films in order to learn a little bit, you see. But so what they did, they turned down my, my things. And so I was I decided to look in another direction, which was television, where I could, you know, would could work on a regular basis. And so what happened now is that they said, well, you see, the work he's doing is okay for television, but it isn't real movies. So this was a reason for them to turn me down again. You see, this is what screwed me up completely. You see, because it's a kind of small mentality in a small kind of dishonored and dishonest thinking. You can hardly do anything against that. So this is what the whole kind of drama was, which was playing now.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395#t=2506.62,2576.98"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395/transcript/76731/annotation/151","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eUnidentified:\u003c/strong\u003e What is it? Do it. And ordinarily have a film service that makes films for the country. They produce features where you just.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395#t=2577.75,2583.78"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395/transcript/76731/annotation/152","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Know they have a film department. And to this department submitted projects for four films. All films must be bidding. Island. No no, no. All films is financed by the government. But as the short film or the film situation is very difficult financially, most of the so-called free films, you know, free subjects are produced by by them or financed by them. And what? No, not so you have. Of course you have industrial films. You have films. Order by industries and all that. Or made for, let's say, social purposes or all that which are paid by all kinds of organizations. But when you do want to do, let's say, creative filmmaking, you depend for a large part on, on the government, you see. And what is I think what is wrong is that the whole thing doesn't work on a on the basis of a locality. So you say, okay, anybody above a certain level gets you get money, you see, or get advances, but you have to pass through a kind of a jury committee, which is, which is consists of a lot of old shitheads, you know, and these guys, you know, I have this kind of double thinking going on at one hand, there's pressure, fresh pressure put on them to give possibilities to a newer generation. And on the other hand, they want they don't like any new new generation. They like only the old, you know, old stuff. You see? Why is that? Do you think this is just, I think, a phenomenon that in every the normal, in every state set up, in every accept accepted set up, you get the mediocre, incompetent people who get the jobs. You know, I don't know how it comes to.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395#t=2584.95,2717.72"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395/transcript/76731/annotation/153","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eUnidentified:\u003c/strong\u003e Do with the fact that they. They learn, but they they take the old, the older people for making that wisdom, you know? Yeah. Those precepts just break his rules.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395#t=2717.87,2732.53"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395/transcript/76731/annotation/154","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e That is. Yeah. That is the set of rules which is now being destroyed. And so nothing else to judge. They have nothing. Nothing they don't own. I told you, the guys don't understand a shit about film, about art in general. They have no idea what it is. They they simply think on a very, very narrow bourgeois standpoint. Which is, was it well received by the press than it was necessarily good? Yeah. You see and they can it is really amazing that they cannot imagine that another way of thinking can exist, you see, and this conversation I had in The Hague these days was on this basis, you see, that they cannot figure out that something else can exist. Then the set of rules and the Goodsell and and the prestige, success. These are the three elements that count. And so they are in the strange, strange situation to to have to promote new ideas. But they want those new ideas to fit those old standards, you see. And they want to have successes, you see, you know, so what they what they say to you is actually make me a film which is young and fresh and revolutionary and which gives us surprises at, at the big festival. And I think they really have no, no idea about that, about the contradiction of English, you know, and which it is.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395#t=2733.01,2826.01"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395/transcript/76731/annotation/155","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e They close all the old state rules.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395#t=2826.21,2828.92"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395/transcript/76731/annotation/156","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah. This is fantastic. And they go on thinking like that. So I think what is happening now is the scope. These guys open their mouth so, so loud that they impress impressed the at first they impressed these these officials, you see because when you get something in print, you know it impresses guy who seems like did this. Yeah. So they were taken by panic. You see I see this is how I see it at the moment. Oh yes. We have to to be wizards. We have to be, you know, there were people be. Yeah. People started to vaguely to treat them as, as shit, you know. And so they felt that some they needed something new and, and when these guys came up okay, we give you money so they got money. And that's how I think everybody is taken, taken so much by what is happening that they say, okay, we send it to can and all that. And so when it didn't work, you get the counter reaction that is that everybody is relieved more or less that that the power in the country hasn't been taken over by these young guys. I think seeing some double mechanism like this is is working. You see everybody.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395#t=2829.58,2910.55"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395/transcript/76731/annotation/157","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e Everybody's relieved that the burden hasn't been taken over.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395#t=2911.09,2913.06"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395/transcript/76731/annotation/158","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e First, I think we have to give power to these guys because otherwise we will, you know, lose prestige. We will lose prestige. And when it came out that these guys weren't strong enough to take over the power, they were relieved because there was no there was no replacement yet for for their viewpoint. So it's a double thing. They are angry and at the same time they are relieved. You see, and so what they are doing now is withdrawing a little bit, you know, saying, well, you know, don't give us too much of those modern ideals. It's all very fine. But they feel a little stronger in their, in their position because it has been proved that, you know, it's not everything this, this modern stuff and it's all thought up. WC like the guys told me that I should make something very personal. This is what I told you before in my Lucy Bear film should be very personal, but at the same time it should represent the general view people. The general idea people have in Holland about loose about it should represent the official viewpoint, but it shouldn't be very personal. It should show a lot of documentation, but it shouldn't be just a documentation film. It should be personal and create film. But it should. It should be possible to use it as a documentation on the guy at the other hand. They thought I might. It would be best if I took the good craftsman as a cameraman, you know, because that way it wouldn't be, you know, the colors wouldn't be too far out and the image would be well focused, but still they expect something personal and you know, and but at the same time, also it should be understandable. They felt that this guy as a subject is very interesting. But also I should I shouldn't use only his far outside, you know. Of course the guy is interesting because he's he has very personal, far out ideas, but I shouldn't make things too difficult. So I should make him understandable to a large public. And all these things I, I will have to combine in this film. I don't see how anybody can do it, so I just do it the way I wanted. And I think this, all the shit they gave me represents very much how they have been going around in films in general. So obviously what they should do is have all the young guys give all the young guys a little money, you know, and have him make have him turn out one film a year, at least. For in general, do they think that you can, that you can become a filmmaker by making a ten, 10 or 15 minute short film every 2 or 3 years? Yeah, that when you make one film every every 2 or 3 years, that you can become a real filmmaker, which you should you should be able to handle the material regularly. And I had I was lucky enough to have that opportunity at TV. Yeah, but what I should do is have everybody turn out 1 or 2 films a year. You know, everybody who qualifies along very large set rules. And then from this I think this will give them a selection. They will really be able to move to do something. Another thing, another thing is that the, the, the promotion of these films in Holland, the showing in the cinemas, in that all that is very deficient. You see, there is no certitude whatsoever. When you make a film, then it will be shown to the public. So you make a film. It is shown to the press and to some invited people, you know. And after that they put it in the in the cupboard and nobody sees it ever again. Which is not. Which is very depressing. Only if you make a hit. So these guys says, well, make it. Which is a ridiculous standpoint for, for anybody creative. I think it was really did that kind they put it on the cover. Yeah. Because you know how they do it. They show it to the press and the public. And if the and if the press and the public don't like it or don't care for it very much, probably that proves with them that it is not worthwhile to show it anymore, you see. And the government controls for the job or not. You know, like my first film and I sold it myself to were distributor who hadn't seen it. Yeah. I think the least of all is that all these guys see everything that comes out. You know that more or less, you put pressure on all these guys to go and see everything that comes out to them, to have an opinion. It's their job. That this will be the least. Yeah. And now, as a matter of fact, some writers and some guys are, you know, putting pressure on these government officials to to have them bring out everything you see. And this would be a good thing too. And they tried in the film we can iron them. They brought out a lot of short films, many of them. Apparently we were very bad. But anyway, if you see 11 or 12 short films in one week, it gives the public a possibility to be in contact with what isn't happening, you know? Yeah. As now they are just reading in the paper another piece of shit. This has come out and they are never able to check it, which is very, very unfair. Yeah. So this is, in short, the rather desperate film situation. Now, to me personally. I feel very bad about it that the film, which I am going to make now for these guys. Can only be financed thanks to a price I got from the same from the same government, but but given to me by, you know, the jury, you see. So I mean I mean so. I have, I have nothing to tell these guys. They have no interest for my, for my ideas whatsoever. Or maybe they are not interested, but but, but they gave me money because I got the price. And if the money doesn't come from the price. So the money doesn't come from the price. But I feel very well that I got the money because first there was a lot there was a lot of pressure put on these guys by by critics, etc., you know, and by certain. But by some of the better members of this jury who judges the projects, because you have also a couple of nice guys in it, but I think they are in the minority. So first I was there was really some pressure put on this jury after they turned me down. So they felt that there would be yes, there would be some unpleasant publicity about it if, if they kept turning me down. Yeah. Okay. And then the second thing which happened was this, this, this prize I got, which, which made it impossible, I think, to turn me down. But as a matter of fact, I have been trying to, you know, to keep you to keep contact with these guys and.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395#t=2913.63,3383.51"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395/transcript/76731/annotation/159","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eUnidentified:\u003c/strong\u003e To keep them informed about what I was doing. But.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395#t=3383.69,3387.68"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395/transcript/76731/annotation/160","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e From their side, I have has never been any effort, you know, to keep, to keep in touch. What about these other guys? Let's go. So I think, for instance, with Nikolai, what happened? He made he made one film which was called The Bowling Alley, which was a 16 exit examination film exam, film school for the school. And so it was a kind of a group experience, a group film, which he directed, and he submitted it to the student? The same student film festival. And he got to a student film festival in which was also showed Megalopolis, you see. And he got he got the prize there, you see. And it's it wasn't very I didn't think it was very good but okay. It was interesting. You know, the guy tried to do something and because he got this prize, he got, you know, some interest going for him. And then he made this film I told you about people in the attic, and he was. Can you talk to the people who are all in the attic? And there was a birth going on, and the guy who was assigned to film at all, and he films the people who are more or less evolving. You know, the group is in the group, things are happening, and the guy finishes, shoots all his film on this group of people. When the child is born, the film runs out, you see, which was is a nice idea. You know, we tried to investigate this whole relationship between the assignment and and reality. You see, it was nice with. Oh, nice. It was some very, very good, very personal things in it. Much more personal than what he's doing now in his. His new film. Maybe you should keep this out. I don't want to judge you. All these guys, you know. But anyway. But also, it was very loose and very, very sloppy. But I liked it. It was very. You had a very sympathetic tone to it. You see, it's crazy. The Dutch image of him. So, so he he made this film. With very little money because he wanted to do, you know, he wanted to to try making making films. Not not in the current system of production, but just more in the spirit of happenings. You see him get his money from the government. He got 5000 guilders, which is about, you know, there's an exam, film examination, film examination, you see, which would which draw attention, drew attention to him. And so they. They gave him more money, you see. And they gave him money for this one. You know, he had made a good impression and he was also in the scope, you see, the that the whole thing started then by that time two years ago. And then he made so that he made his first film and he didn't want to ask for much money. He asked for 5000 guilders and got him, which is nothing for a film. And it was 40 minutes. And he shot the film in two days, in two nights as a you really? So what happened up there was it was it was recorded in the film. So it was kind of a happening. You see, he didn't want it to be. He was already very much, much interested in this group idea. You know, what was happening in the group. Yeah. And in a concentrated lapse of time, you see. Yeah. In one. So they shot the whole thing in one weekend. And so it was very interesting because you get some sometimes you get some of this unfinished on the spot feeling. And I think it was very good because he. He really I think he really tried to, to figure it, to figure out the concept of filmmaking his own way. And the film reflected this. But when it was shown to the to the public, people just hated it. The critics just tore it apart, you know, they left nothing because also there were some fashionable Quotations. You had the lines read by Renee. You know, from a tape. You had a speech by Goebbels. You had stuff like that, you know, all kinds of you had a film. In a film, you see a guy who sets up a projector and shows a film of himself. So these were all very fashionable things, but you could forgive them because, you know, it was kind of a wild tryouts in two days. But people just hated the film. And. Since that time, he has had also had a lot of trouble because the government more or less let him down after that. You see, they didn't. Yeah, they were fashionable. So yeah, I you see they want the success. Okay. We give you money, you make a success and otherwise fuck you. And so he had he had a lot of trouble I think getting off the ground. And so for this film this is his film he's made up since then. Yeah. The first film he made. And so what he did, he he submitted a project, I think, to make and have our film and with actors in 35, he asked for, I think, 50 or 60,000 guilders. So what the government did, and this is what they are trying now, is to to have to have it both ways at the same time. They say, well, we give you I don't know, you ask Nikolai if I have this maybe, but publish you see. And anyway, what I told you, you have to put in a very subdued way, because otherwise, you know, I just finish this. Oh, fuck up. And I don't want to start again, you see. But you you can signal the hesitant and dishonest attitude they have. I think you can just pointed out very quietly, I think I can do that and lead it so well. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Maybe you can check it was easier than it was.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395#t=3390.35,3778.52"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395/transcript/76731/annotation/161","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e Just give me the picture so I can write this.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395#t=3779.78,3782.81"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395/transcript/76731/annotation/162","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah, and you can, you can check this out. It also with Nikolai. So what they do with what they did to Nikolai was. You said, well, you ask for 60,000 or 50,000. What we will do, we give you 30,000. So we give you half of what you need, and you go find the rest of the money yourself. And when you find the rest, we give you 30,000. So they had what they. I think this is a lousy, lousy thing. I think when when a government is standing behind the film production, they should stand behind it. What what they do, they they try to to roll over the responsibility on private enterprise, you see. And so I think they figured when private enterprise sees, sees money in it, They don't drink anything either. When? When Mr. Heineken says, well, I'm going to lose, you know, some ten thousands of guilders I'm going to put in it is because you will see them back somehow. Yeah. He figures he will. He will make a profit, or at least have his dough back and have publicity. So they think probably that when private enterprise puts his money in it, they will control the shape of the film. Yeah. In order to make it adapted to, to to what sells. You see. Oh, I see the government thinks so. I think that they try to play that way. So at that moment, it is safe for them to put in money. Yeah. And at the other hand, it will give them it will leave them more money to give to different people, which is a good thing. But still, I think they have to I think it's it got them shame to do this because the interest of the of the of the government so different from the from the interest of industry. And if you have if these two are playing together, I think, you know, we are really lost. Because the government should be for what the industry doesn't, doesn't have to pay for, and the industry should pay for what the government for what is not the field of the government, which is not strictly the culture of it. You see, and when you have those to go hand in hand, I think we are lost. We have no defense anymore. In principle. So what happens is that Dick? Oh, yeah. And the third thing thing, what they are doing, they give those films normally when you would, you would get money. Okay, you got the money to make the film, have it your own way. What are you doing? I always give the money to a producer. And the producer produces the film for the guy who. Will ask for the money. Who submitted the project? You see. So this is also a way of of of of of course it is a way for them. For their standpoint is a way to be responsible. You see. Yeah. For. Yeah. So this, this way we will know what is coming out. But in practice also it may turn out to be a way of controlling this thing and make it again more adaptable to, to our mediocre society and to, to mediocre standards. Okay. So then the thing was given. Nikolai's film was given to the fragments production company. Frohman acted as a producer and. Well, Freeman said. We are not going to start the film on this basis. We are. We have to find even more money than I had asked for, I think, and everybody knew very well that this could take another year for the four before the film was started. You see, because Frame On had so many other interested interests in other things. And so everybody got very depressed. And finally they broke with Freeman, Nikolai and Dick, who was an assistant on the film. We became the guy who went out looking for money, and he finally got Heineken interested and even, yeah, Dick and Dick. Dick got the money and finally had to go. Yeah, yeah, fine. Finally Heineken got so got to be so interested that the that now they are making a feature out of it. You see? Yeah, it was high tech and they wanted to make a picture. Yeah. He got so taken by apparently that that now they make a feature length which is great extraordinary. But still I think the role of the government is oh, oh, everything except the role of, of a vital stimulator of young people in this whole bit, you know, because these they set these guys for the dilemma. We give you money if you can find other money, otherwise we don't. So this has nothing to do with the quality of his product but with the sales possibilities for it. Is this a unique good? I think they tried this boy, you know, the guy told me it's the loser Bear film. He said, not the not the chief, but the the chief of the film department, not the chief of the whole art department. You see, he said, well, while I. I'm thinking about it. Lisa Baird is still working for the Marlborough Galleria, which is a great. He has a contract with Great International Gallery. Maybe we could get Marlborough interested to pay to put in some money. So I looked very unhappy, of course, but I didn't react too much because I felt that I was, as I was struggling over this point of the cameraman and the scenario and all this shit. I didn't want to to to discuss another, to discuss another issue, you see. So I said, well, maybe it might be an idea. I said, and I thought immediately, this will never happen, you know. Yeah. Because it wasn't my film wasn't financed on this condition. And anyway, the chief of the whole art department didn't react, didn't didn't show any reaction to this, probably to this remark of the guy. So I thought it wouldn't be worthwhile to discuss it. Furthermore, you know, what about some of the other films? But they, as a general thing that I think they are trying to do is to do this. You see, that was why is it why is this film was financed partly by Barry Freeman and partly by the government. You see, Freeman Freeman got assigned. Freeman got the assignment for the National Book Promotion Committee, you see, which organized this whole week of of the book and all that. And so they they commanded the film. And then Freeman book of the film was a film, the. Come on. Yeah, for the book committee. And. Freeman figured that for the money they got, there wasn't enough profit. You know, they had the two small basis. And so he asked for money from the government. And first the government refused. And then also through pressure. This is the whole game. Freeman is playing all the time, putting pressure on people because he doesn't believe in anything. So he works through pressure. He doesn't give a shit anymore, you know? So. Through all kinds of intrigues, you've got the money. So it was also a co-production in which nobody had to lose and everything. Everybody had to win.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395#t=3783.23,4265.38"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395/transcript/76731/annotation/163","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eUnidentified:\u003c/strong\u003e To go down.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395#t=4269.37,4269.7"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395/transcript/76731/annotation/164","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e Are there any other productions recently?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395#t=4270.63,4271.92"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395/transcript/76731/annotation/165","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eUnidentified:\u003c/strong\u003e Bottom of the world. On the bottom of the barrel.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395#t=4277.47,4279.07"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395/transcript/76731/annotation/166","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Would you? Which is also a private production of Batman reproducing himself. He got me. No, he got money. Apparently, he got money from banks and, you know, advances. He founded a production company, and. But so you can say in the In the real film world, the world in the 35 bit field, you have industrial films, you have educational films by, let's say, see my government organizations or general organizations, and you have the so-called free films done by financed by the government, and the fourth, the film, the creative films and free films. And and now as a new gimmick has come up, you know, because, you know, producers who just produce films, short films or long films to be shown in the cinema, they have very little chance to get back their money, you see. So now as a new gimmick, you have producers who ask money from the government and finance and maybe throw in a little bit of money themselves and then finance films. This is our goal. What do you have? The films you have. And then. Oh I'm sorry. Then after that, be. Oh. Besides that, we have the long feature film. And we make 1 or 2 a year sometimes. We've been a very good year. We make four. And these are produced by film companies. You see Dutch producers and and here we have some kind of. Of a similar system to the, to the calendar system for when the guys put up, let's say when the film costs 500,000 guilders and when they themselves, they themselves put up 300,000 thousands, they get they get 200,000 guilders from the National Cinema Society, the national board of the next national organizations of export. You see Exploit dawn to cinema to sell exploit us. You see, there is throwing money. When they get it off the ground, they throw in money. You know, they have a kind of national film fund for that, you see. So this is much more of a of an objective system. You see, you get money, okay. They give money. But these films. You know, they hope to get this off the ground. But. There's only one man who makes it, who makes it, which is a guy, an old guy. An old German guy who? DeMaio. Who came here before the war. Rudy. Rudy. Meyer. Yeah, yeah, yeah, m e y and er. You know Rudy Meyer, who is an old guy from the from the, the pre-war German cinema who has a production house who makes maybe one film a year, one film every two years. And. And he Meg. He manages to to get money to make money on them every time. He did. He did to overhaul, you know, the alpha file, which was a huge success because it played on the national feelings marvelously, had a great publicity going. Popular actors here.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395#t=4280.08,4493.27"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395/transcript/76731/annotation/167","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eUnidentified:\u003c/strong\u003e And you go back. Yeah. I was a little bit okay. This is an.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395#t=4493.63,4502.45"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395/transcript/76731/annotation/168","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Interesting road, I think.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395#t=4502.54,4503.32"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395/transcript/76731/annotation/169","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eUnidentified:\u003c/strong\u003e He's a producer.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395#t=4508.24,4508.45"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395/transcript/76731/annotation/170","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e He's a producer. He's an old fashioned producer who knows well what you should make in order to make money. You know, he made kind of comedy. Fanfare by Burtons, a feature film. Very weak piece of shit. I think it people loved it. He did some more things, I don't know, I'm. I'm makes it back here and he makes it back in Holland because these things have no export value. And so all those figuring that we should make something which has actual export value, but it up till now, it doesn't work somehow as an industry on an industrial level, we haven't enough to offer to make an interesting business associate. I think with the with the foreign countries. I don't know why, but, you know, this is just I mean, this is not a yeah, we go to the right, you go back on the small road here. What I mean is. I'm not really interested in this kind of stuff, you know, because. I can't use all my time figuring out why these guys are so shitty. But everybody tells me that it isn't possible to make something which is not. It is not. And so these young, young guys and this is a good thing, of course they say, well, it must be possible, you know. And so they tried to figure out systems, you know, like also like did the nouvelle far guys G production and all that you see. And I don't know if it's going to work, but for a couple of years I've stopped thinking about it because I want to work. You know, I just I'm not I don't want to use my time for figuring out systems of of sales, but apparently it's just things in this field are so that when you have only two two films a year to offer, it's not not much of an of a proposition to producers abroad. You see that there aren't enough nuances, nuances and enough possibilities in the several deals they can make. And so this makes it very hard. But on the other hand, I don't see why we couldn't make some films, which is at least showed an effort to, to, to, to to have, let's say a more a larger interest in than just our local the worst local humor. No, I don't see that. And. Oh I don't see it. Well, I don't know this, apparently. Apparently you just like that. So another guy we should talk about, for your information is Rada. Marcus Fontana. Marcus. Fons is his first name. Yeah, I funds Rada. Marcus. I just r a d e m a k a r e s. Yeah. All right. No, no Okay. My. No, no, I smell good. I'm bad at it. A d e m e k e r s. Is that what I said before? Got it. So, Randy Marcus is what? Before he was an actor and is. He is a director. And you got interested in film? I think in the time that Ingmar Bergman was coming up, he was very fascinated by this kind of link of theater and cinema, which Bergman came up with. And he saw a possibility there, and he got some. So on this he got he made five feature films, I think 4 or 5. And. They were financed by private producers. You know, who put in some money and got the rest of the money from the from the cinema fund. You know, the government, which is the the National Board of Exploiters and and cineastes. You see, this is a kind of national. Something like it's something national cinema. I was I think it's comparable to that. It's a representation of the business, not of the government but of the business. But of course it is linked very much to the government. Okay. So his first film was produced by the guy who, by the way, but also parietal lobe or blew up for you a little bit. But this guy and it seems it was not Bernstein, Bernstein, Bernstein, Bernstein. I don't think it's very important. But anyway, it seems the film wasn't very it wasn't wasn't bad at all. It seems was a pretty good film. Which film wasn't? It was dope. River village on the river from regional novel and country. Novel. Local novel. And he put this in a film and not a magazine. And it seems it was quite good, especially for the first film. And. It also was the candidate for the, for the, for an Oscar, I think for, for the Oscar and I stayed. Yeah. Academy Award, it was a candidate, you see, which was a very, very good thing. But still the producer tells me that they, they didn't, that the film was made in 58, 59, I think 59 the 58. Well, 58 and. Maybe a year or so ago, the producer told me that they didn't even get their money back yet. You see, they sold it for these guys importing all the Ingmar Bergman films. And I think they sold it in Scandinavia, but they didn't get around to selling it much. You know, they didn't get around to selling it really consistently in 8 or 10 countries. What you would need probably 2 or 2 to make money. Yeah. So then. His next two films were produced by a, a new producer who came up also from was important by by many of the shipping the big shipping guys you know how do you how do you call them a guy who have ships on the armature. Guys. We have ships, you know, sea ships and shipbuilders. So this was a guy, and he. This was a guy who came from these circles and went into film business. And he wanted to he wanted to put a stamp, a lot of money into films and make a continuous production because they by that time they had had become aware that nothing will happen if we make one film. So they just wanted to make films, films, films. And so I think I produced 2 or 3, rather Marcus Pictures, one after the other, and they weren't bad at all. I mean, it was just not it was not very French by the time, but very Swedish, you see, like we have now, the French bit when we're writing macros, man. What do you say, 59, 60, 62 around this time? But apparently he didn't bring in any money, so this whole bid was stopped. This production of of his work. And now this company is making industrial films. So no, no private. No, no, no, no risk on that, on that part. Just take command. Take assignments. And and they also produce sometimes a feature film which has to do to get it to make its money back on the Dutch market. You see a low budget, low budget and shitty subjects. It they made one thing which was called dude ffe in Amsterdam where you. Oh shit you can you get. And it was a big success. This was the first film they made any money on. Not on the on the radio, Marcus. But when they turn, watch this kind of shit, they they they make money, you see. So this we can consider this whole idea as lost. You see that democracy didn't work.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395#t=4509.11,5062.83"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395/transcript/76731/annotation/171","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eUnidentified:\u003c/strong\u003e For them anymore. Building of the feature film feature length film idea as well.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395#t=5063.07,5067.6"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395/transcript/76731/annotation/172","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Of these guys to make this continuous production turn out films, films just and on an international basis. Make something, you know, build up a kind of a mass of films so that we have a we have consistent material to trade with. I think this idea was left completely, because all I hear about these guys is that they make industrial films and shit. Okay. And then the markets got into contact with Heineken and now Heineken support him, see, Heineken supports them. And he made one big film for Hannigan, which is How was it called in French? They're good, though, I think. I think it wasn't received badly in France. Was an industrial. No, no, no, not a feature film. They had a good time as a cameraman and they made it here. But yeah, he had to come over. And it is a very complicated war novel. And he made a film out of it, which really couldn't. Didn't when you had read the book, you know, the whole problem, it didn't stand up at all. And it was very kind of academic.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395#t=5068.62,5148.06"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395/transcript/76731/annotation/173","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e A lot of my friends still link to this production company.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395#t=5149.08,5150.97"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395/transcript/76731/annotation/174","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah, and they are financed by Heineken. And so but I don't I don't know how this is at all. Apparently Heineken is do he's doing this much as a hobby, as a kind of, you know, a joke. He likes it. And I think he has some, dough to lose. So it doesn't hurt him. It doesn't hurt him too much, but I don't know how they are selling the thing. So this is the first one that they have made and now they are shooting one in Yugoslavia. The second one of the market Dutch one, a Dutch one, and Sasha Vernier is on at the camera. Yeah. And they have the guy who played in LA produce this. Say he plays in it. They, you see they try to make an international setup and I don't know if it's co-produce. I think it is a co-production.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395#t=5151.87,5203.22"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395/transcript/76731/annotation/175","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e You can tell me I don't.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395#t=5204.24,5204.84"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395/transcript/76731/annotation/176","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eUnidentified:\u003c/strong\u003e I don't know what.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395#t=5205.44,5205.92"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395/transcript/76731/annotation/177","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e But I think there's Italian money or something. Yeah. So up till now I think rather Marcus is a feature filmmaker. Has never made back all the money he is he has used. But anyway, he's the only one who works consistently. Who had made it? Who has made five films now? Five feature films. You see? So he's the only one who. Whom you could call the feature director in Holland. So this guy Meyer is a producer.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395#t=5208.35,5243.06"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395/transcript/76731/annotation/178","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eUnidentified:\u003c/strong\u003e And he produces.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395#t=5245.01,5245.28"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395/transcript/76731/annotation/179","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Also. Yeah. He does anything that, you know, that makes money, you know. Nice. On the sea shore?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395#t=5249.06,5262.86"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395/transcript/76731/annotation/180","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e No. What sort of like to know, as Hansard done anything other than this one and then this one feature.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395#t=5263.85,5273.06"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395/transcript/76731/annotation/181","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, we did another one which was on the same principle.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395#t=5273.66,5275.73"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395/transcript/76731/annotation/182","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e Comedy. One local comedy.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395#t=5276.93,5277.74"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395/transcript/76731/annotation/183","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e The first was a fantastic success. So he figured that checking on would be as much of a success. You. But it was butchered. Slaughtered. Yeah. People hate.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395#t=5278.37,5289.94"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395/transcript/76731/annotation/184","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e Oh, yeah. Why?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395#t=5290.6,5291.26"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395/transcript/76731/annotation/185","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e I don't know, this is also a mechanism. The first one was very bad and people found it funny. And when they saw the second one, probably they became aware that they had been duped, that they had been taken, you know, and so.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395#t=5291.86,5306.62"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395/transcript/76731/annotation/186","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e I what does Hunter think of these films?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395#t=5309.89,5310.97"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395/transcript/76731/annotation/187","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e I think he likes the first one who hates the second one, because the first one was successful. And so, yeah, the critics and people made a differentiation. Said the first one was fine, the second one was shit, but I think both were shit. They were made on the same recipe of local small humor, you see. And.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395#t=5312.29,5330.47"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395/transcript/76731/annotation/188","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e Is there any history in that that's outside of just even after the summer? I wonder why you said that. We talked a little bit about that before the when would you place it beginning Dutch cinema if you could.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395#t=5335.96,5348.68"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395/transcript/76731/annotation/189","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e The 20 to the mid mid 20s. Yeah, I think before that I don't know of any.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395#t=5349.91,5355.22"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395/transcript/76731/annotation/190","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e Is there any first Dutch film. No, no.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395#t=5357.5,5359.81"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395/transcript/76731/annotation/191","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e No I don't I think it begins with even.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395#t=5361.64,5363.53"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395/transcript/76731/annotation/192","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e It begins with even. Yeah. What was his first film?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395#t=5363.82,5366.35"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395/transcript/76731/annotation/193","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e He had one that was called The Bridge. I think that was one of his first one, which was a kind of, you know, a montage of shots done of of it, of a train bridge and metal bridge, you know, kind of modern era era feeling. And he made an editing of it. I didn't see it. I read Macedonia and what did you do? He did rain in Amsterdam. Famous rain in Amsterdam. Very nice. It was in the 20s. Yeah. Jim Beauty went out with a 16 camera. Was it? Yeah. It was only spring and he shot made shots. And this was in maybe 25 or something. 23. And then you had this whole bunch of intellectual rounders who really discovered film as a means of art, you see? Yeah. And so they set those artistic rules. They, they, they they thought of it as a, as an intellectual thing film. You know, this whole they were fascinated by this whole idea of string theory and talking. And I think this dominated all the thinking about film till, till recently till I had, you see, till the, till the cinema. I think five years ago, the greatest film, the greatest modern film people could think of here was Brief Encounter. You know, this was a kind of a, you know, where you have these odd audio visual contrasts, you know? You know that shit, you know, use of sound and to make transitions in the image and all that shit. And this is, this was the concept of filming of the critics till maybe 5 or 6 years ago with the critics here, with the critics in the film. People. Right. And so about, I think about the generation of the Dutch documentary. We have told the talks already. There was one point we didn't touch with the the identification with her, with the great past. Yeah. You see that what these guys were doing is using this kind of elating. Lyrical, Marxist language. If you want that. This building up of strong things. On those themes like water and dikes and all that. That it was justified by this kind of nostalgia of those of this to what they thought. It was a very Dutch past, which was linked with the water and sailing the seas. And what I talked about here. Yeah. And so you could say that it became hollow because it didn't fit. It didn't fit anymore the structure of our society. And I think there were a couple in the, in the by that.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395#t=5369.26,5538.44"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395/transcript/76731/annotation/194","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e Because there was no more. Great.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395#t=5538.56,5539.7"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395/transcript/76731/annotation/195","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e There was no more a great bit. And anyway, they kept saying the same thing over and over, you know, about those dikes. And people got got the feeling that there was a more, more of a nuance to be expressed. It wasn't that we we are not that simple. But I think, you know, in, in a, in a wider view, you could, could also consider that we in the meantime we lost Indonesia, we lost New Guinea, we lost our whole our whole image in during the war, we lost our image. It is the first it's.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395#t=5540.69,5571.95"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395/transcript/76731/annotation/196","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e An image of an empire before the war.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395#t=5572.19,5573.96"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395/transcript/76731/annotation/197","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah. And we had to do it before we had to Indonesia, which was a tremendous.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395#t=5574.32,5580.44"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395/transcript/76731/annotation/198","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e It didn't feel like a small country in the middle of Europe.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395#t=5581.22,5582.93"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395/transcript/76731/annotation/199","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e I think the people didn't. The older people didn't. If they did what the the expression they use is the our great small country, you see. And this is an expression which doesn't apply apply anymore. No. But before let's say this was an expression, but let's say in the 19th century. So okay. And at the beginning of the 20th century, we were one of the, the great colonial nations, the great colonialist nations, and this whole thing was destructed. And even we have only now the, the shooting know I'm the Caribbean and a couple of Caribbean islands and we we even don't have these anymore, you know. No. And New Guinea was a tremendous loss of face. Of course it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395#t=5583.65,5628.95"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395/transcript/76731/annotation/200","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e Wasn't a New Guinea. This is which is a.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395#t=5629.79,5632.55"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395/transcript/76731/annotation/201","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e You know, it's. You are near. Near that and you know that you lost. Yeah. Sukarno took it over in 62. And I think the Dutch counted on the support of the of the Americans and of the world, because, you know, they had just given freedom to the populace that that is the popular as it did it. Did you know the people of New Guinea who are living in the Stone age? And they gave freedom to the powers and they, they, they, they they. They promised to educate these peoples and have them vote in ten years for out of determination. So yeah. And so this was a it came about a couple of hundred years too late, of course, because they had never thought of educating these people and now they had to be taken. Is the free Papua against and then just do the the communist power of Sukarno and Sukarno just infiltrated it, and I took it over. And so they counted on the support of. Of the Western Allies. Nobody thought much about it. You know, nobody gave a shit. Nobody found it worthwhile to anyway. There were no natural riches. There was nothing. You see. And and there was one very weak point. When they gave. When they gave freedom to Indonesia. This was more or less given as a promise on the to them, to New Guinea, to Sukarno, that they would discuss this matter later to freed to to bring a New Guinea under control of Indonesia. And then afterwards the Dutch never talked about it anymore. So Sukarno started bugging and then he started sending guerilla troops. And so the and he took over because they had just to face it as well. Or either we start to a jungle battle like the American the Americans have fought against the Japanese in or New Guinea also is a terrible jungle. And so they started sending troops and guys were killed, you know, and they didn't get any support. So they lost. They lost it. They just lost. They lost face. And this was all ridiculous, kind of. And so this was a kind of a thing that people had to face that we have. No we have no power in the, in the present set up. You know, it began probably already because we didn't manage to stay neutral in the Second World War. People dreamed of being neutral. You know, in the First World War, we stayed neutral. And so there was still these this kind of feeling that we could manage to to stay out of it. But of course, this, you know, Holland was taken over in, in one day by the Germans. Just.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395#t=5633.03,5804.57"}]},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395/transcript/76731","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["English [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262395/transcript/76731/annotation/202","type":"Annotation","motivation":"subtitling","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/file_transcripts/associated_files/000/076/731/original/trint_Coll458_jb0063_VanDerKeuken_01_transcript.vtt?1740616152","format":"text/vtt","language":"en"},"target":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/file_transcripts/associated_files/000/076/731/original/trint_Coll458_jb0063_VanDerKeuken_01_transcript.vtt?1740616152"}]}]},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396","type":"Canvas","label":{"en":["Media File 2 of 2 - Coll458_jb0063_VanDerKeuken_02.mp3"]},"duration":5808.66612,"width":640,"height":360,"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/public/images/audio-default.png","type":"Image","format":"image/png"}],"items":[{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396/content/1","type":"AnnotationPage","items":[{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396/content/2/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"painting","body":{"id":"https://aviary-p-universityoforegonlibraries.s3.wasabisys.com/collection_resource_files/resource_files/000/262/396/original/Coll458_jb0063_VanDerKeuken_02.mp3?1739227532","type":"Audio","format":"audio/mpeg","duration":5808.66612,"width":640,"height":360},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396","metadata":[]}]}],"annotations":[{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396/transcript/79644","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["AUTO_TRINT_Coll458_jb0063_VanDerKeuken_02.mp3 [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396/transcript/79644/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e You were going to say?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396#t=8.35,9.03"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396/transcript/79644/annotation/2","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e I was going to say that it's... That it gets really interesting really, when you are going around with people that control you. To a large extent I can control myself when going around a lot of people. I know what is the role more or less. With a car like this no not so much i think it's uh more that you really feel that the guy isn't I mean in weaker in which he has to offer. I'm not talking about authority. To his actions, his actions are tied to a whole principle of life, to a hope. You're talking about Lucifer. Yeah, the guy has figured out what his life should be and he tries to do it, to live it. Yeah. And the other guys are tied up with a little problem which has nothing to do with the form of their life, the shape of their lives. They are all the time being drawn on sidelines. How do I get this job and they tend to forget what they really want to do. They don't arrive at realizing what they really should do or should want to do. And I think this guy impresses the shit out of me because he has fairly well resolved this problem and defined what the substance of his life should be and tries to live it. And because he's done this, he can do anything, he's more free than other people. This is, I feel, impressive. Up to four or five years ago, Vanderelske used to impress the shit out of me, but there's a kind of a statue which has fallen down, you see, because I saw that exactly the work is fine, many of his works are fine, but that there's no real substance in his life to go with it, you know.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396#t=10.9,152.79"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396/transcript/79644/annotation/3","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e You mean substance, you mean he doesn't stand for something?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396#t=154.05,155.93"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396/transcript/79644/annotation/4","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e It does stand somewhere, it does stand for something, but not everywhere. Not in every respect. He can be drawn on too many sidelines, like screwing up on a couple of thousand guilds. Which is only a very definitive example. But I think a mature guy shouldn't be tied up with this kind of crap. And this makes him pitiful, because I think when you are, let's say, 40 years and you feel that you... You mean business in life, that you mean to do something. You shouldn't get tied up and screwing somebody for a thousand kilos. I think that is really breaking down your image. And he had more stuff like this and so of course this is, when I get older I see better what's happening with him.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396#t=157.7,204.25"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396/transcript/79644/annotation/5","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e Let's get some more beer, huh? Alright, better go ahead and get the guy.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396#t=210.63,215.23"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396/transcript/79644/annotation/6","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Motherfucker put it on You realize that'll be at the museum modern art. I'd like to have something like that tape","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396#t=217.02,223.96"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396/transcript/79644/annotation/7","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e You know that, well, in the Leacock interview, he says horse shit, and all this stuff. We're printing it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396#t=224.18,231.9"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396/transcript/79644/annotation/8","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e No, but this you can't print, because it is not my idiom, also. I can print it, yeah. No, you cannot, because... I mean, I would never say something like that in Dutch, I think. Because it's very, very gross here, yeah...","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396#t=234.15,248.95"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396/transcript/79644/annotation/9","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 3:\u003c/strong\u003e No, but you would also say that I'm stupid.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396#t=248.87,250.27"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396/transcript/79644/annotation/10","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah, Klocak, but it hasn't the same, the weight, it hasn' the same weight.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396#t=250.829,253.89"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396/transcript/79644/annotation/11","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e I would do that, just leave it where it's not a heavy weight, like shit, things like that, it does fit, you know, it's heavy, but it's, it is heavy in English, but uh...","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396#t=255.33,264.23"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396/transcript/79644/annotation/12","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Shit, I could say in Dutch, but...","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396#t=266.06,267.16"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396/transcript/79644/annotation/13","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e Coming from a Dutchman, it takes on another aspect.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396#t=268.02,269.64"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396/transcript/79644/annotation/14","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e But I think a motherfucker is something... The worst, eh?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396#t=272.17,275.83"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396/transcript/79644/annotation/15","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e That's too much for anybody in France. It's a few. In France, it does. But, uh, but shit.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396#t=277.66,289.78"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396/transcript/79644/annotation/16","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e So did I give a fairly accurate image of this? Now there's one thing that she she said so we should precise that. She said but...","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396#t=291.75,299.97"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396/transcript/79644/annotation/17","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e Also, uh, Yvonne.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396#t=301.05,301.55"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396/transcript/79644/annotation/18","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e About Lucebert. You pronounce it actually actually Luce-bert. There's one thing that she says but he this guy has his very childish rancunes also which is true. Nasty as hell the guy. He's bitchy. He had nasty quarrels with people also. I'm the out-of-corner. At least in terms of that, the out of me. Good day. But I said, of course, the guy is very infantile things, but it never took over the direction of his life. He was able to somehow to keep away from being eaten up by them. As a guy like Van der Elske finally winds up being eaten up by his rancunes. His main function is to be rancunier, to express his feeling of rancune. For the other guy there are things that are much more important, and the rancune is only one sideline. And he has objectified his rancun in social protest. And then it becomes okay. So I think this also you might call just another aspect of control.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396#t=301.87,386.72"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396/transcript/79644/annotation/19","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 3:\u003c/strong\u003e I think I lost some of the wind there.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396#t=387.72,388.76"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396/transcript/79644/annotation/20","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e I don't think the wind is too terrible. So I'm not saying that this is a kind of a sweet, ideal guy. I think he's a very difficult guy to live with. And I cannot say that he's my friend, because I'm just...","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396#t=390.25,405.23"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396/transcript/79644/annotation/21","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 4:\u003c/strong\u003e Getting pepper all over the microphone.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396#t=409.44,410.6"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396/transcript/79644/annotation/22","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e But you can also say that Ed van der Elsken was my friend. He wasn't my friend before, I was an admirer. And when the relationship changed and we became friends, it became hard for him to accept the fact that this was a friendship on the same level. And so then he started showing his... Littleness you could also put it that way not only he changed but i changed and i provoked a change in his attitude towards me which finally resulted in in in in this showdown so you would never be able to say if if i'm ten years old And I I get a different relationship with a guy like Lucebert, if that would be possible to keep that up, if it wouldn't hurt the guy, because he would feel that it would make him smaller, instead of accepting that I have maybe become a little bit bigger, without him becoming smaller. But the conclusion from the health committee, that as I was becoming bigger... Necessarily, he was becoming smaller and he wanted to, uh... To forbid it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396#t=417.42,512.02"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396/transcript/79644/annotation/23","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e So that's that. Bring you in your place. Did you find in Luxeberg, uh, Luceberg? Yeah, Luseberg.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396#t=515.97,524.21"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396/transcript/79644/annotation/24","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 4:\u003c/strong\u003e Did you find any of the raccoons you were subject to, any of them during the shooting?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396#t=525.97,530.83"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396/transcript/79644/annotation/25","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e What?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396#t=531.42,531.42"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396/transcript/79644/annotation/26","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 4:\u003c/strong\u003e Ron Kuhn's, his little angers and temper tantrums.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396#t=532.4,537.02"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396/transcript/79644/annotation/27","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e To get the film going, you have the same problem as with Bebby. You see, this film was shot very quickly. Started and finished within two months, which is fairly quickly. In between, Yvonne was operated on the appendix.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396#t=546.22,562.73"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396/transcript/79644/annotation/28","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 3:\u003c/strong\u003e Welcome to the club!","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396#t=564.88,565.86"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396/transcript/79644/annotation/29","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e So, you know, we had, which took also a week. And so we did it very quickly. So I was there pushing him to get the scenario. How are we going to set up this film? Because my principle was I'm not going to write a scenario. I just talk to the guy and write it down and we put something together afterwards. You know, some ideas, some principles put together and then we start shooting and we change it all. Because I think it's no use to make film about an artist when it's not himself who... Portrays himself. So I was pushing him. Okay, let's do this and let's do that. Then sometimes he's very very irritated, you know, at this guy and he didn't know me that well then.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396#t=568.6,620.82"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396/transcript/79644/annotation/30","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e Thank you.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396#t=620.83,621.19"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396/transcript/79644/annotation/31","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e He didn't know me very well then, only, you know, superficially. I was there every day, sitting there asking him questions. Okay, let's get something done.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396#t=623.11,633.75"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396/transcript/79644/annotation/32","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 4:\u003c/strong\u003e Did you say that?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396#t=634.94,635.4"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396/transcript/79644/annotation/33","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e I don't know what that is. And it would get very messy sometimes. Because this guy was very scared.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396#t=636.81,649.65"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396/transcript/79644/annotation/34","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, here you are, a young guy, and you haven't got his reputation.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396#t=650.68,654.8"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396/transcript/79644/annotation/35","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e But he is also very scared of his, you know, to be pushed around.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396#t=656.72,660.72"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396/transcript/79644/annotation/36","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e Joseph is freedom now.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396#t=663.51,664.49"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396/transcript/79644/annotation/37","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Jealous of his freedom, but also a little bit paranoiac, I think. He has is a little bit the same what Yvonne has.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396#t=664.75,673.74"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396/transcript/79644/annotation/38","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e I guess it runs with us.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396#t=674.54,675.48"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396/transcript/79644/annotation/39","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e A little of the mistrust of the good intentions of people, of people in civilized society. Like Yvon is happy in southern countries, he has much of the same, but he mistrusts our organized society and supposes that nobody can have a good intention, who is acting from a social context. So he's very mistrusting and... When you tell him to do something, his immediate reaction is no.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396#t=675.54,711.81"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396/transcript/79644/annotation/40","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 3:\u003c/strong\u003e Boss.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396#t=715.51,715.51"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396/transcript/79644/annotation/41","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e That's V1's too, yeah? But obviously he had accepted that I made the film, so he had to give me the right to tell him to do something.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396#t=718.23,730.81"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396/transcript/79644/annotation/42","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 3:\u003c/strong\u003e Which irritated him.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396#t=731.75,732.65"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396/transcript/79644/annotation/43","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e And that's something, sometimes it got very nasty. I said maybe we start writing down things. Okay, okay, write, you write. Just go ahead, write.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396#t=732.98,743.62"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396/transcript/79644/annotation/44","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 3:\u003c/strong\u003e I didn't know what to do.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396#t=750.29,751.15"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396/transcript/79644/annotation/45","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e I would do nothing, wait. I said that with my block note, and I waited. Which worked out very good, because... You mean you wait, huh? I waited, I said nothing.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396#t=752.15,763.29"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396/transcript/79644/annotation/46","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e I waited till he started talking again. You found it very... Frustrating. You were writing down what he said. You didn't have a record.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396#t=766.1,773.28"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396/transcript/79644/annotation/47","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e No no so we had talked about two days or something how we didn't how we would want to have this to look this film how we want this film to look and then I said so we should write something down now after lunch or something okay right he said right go ahead right Now I just waited till he felt the need of re-establishing the contact What he did then was cut it off Do your own business Okay, okay, do your own buisness","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396#t=773.24,810.47"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396/transcript/79644/annotation/48","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e And what did he do then? Did he go paid or something?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396#t=811.589,813.97"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396/transcript/79644/annotation/49","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e No, you go- you started talking again maybe afterwards, I-","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396#t=814.6,817.2"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396/transcript/79644/annotation/50","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, you mean you'd be standing there and he'd set his home and he would...","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396#t=817.569,820.75"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396/transcript/79644/annotation/51","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e No we were sitting, we were discussing and then I said let's take something, write something down. He said ok, write. So he withdrew mentally from the thing. Sitting there looking out of the window very intriguing always people this is a guy who can sit there and just say nothing for half an hour like carl you remember carl would also","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396#t=820.81,848.45"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396/transcript/79644/annotation/52","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 3:\u003c/strong\u003e the driving net.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396#t=851.41,852.05"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396/transcript/79644/annotation/53","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah yeah but carl drives people people up the wall he sits there and he just looks at you or looks away he doesn't say anything and i i found out that carl doesn't mean anything by that it just doesn't feel like speaking and this guy i know two more guys to do that adria morian also an older writer we know also can sit for half an hour maybe from time to time we will say yes","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396#t=852.45,880.07"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396/transcript/79644/annotation/54","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e And you sat there for half an hour and not said anything? And you just sat there? I sat there.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396#t=884.989,890.99"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396/transcript/79644/annotation/55","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 4:\u003c/strong\u003e I thought that would be the end of it, I'd had to leave or something.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396#t=894.49,897.17"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396/transcript/79644/annotation/56","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e No, I knew that something would have to happen, so I waited, but it was a little bit depressing.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396#t=899.15,903.21"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396/transcript/79644/annotation/57","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 3:\u003c/strong\u003e Ha ha ha ha!","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396#t=904.02,904.72"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396/transcript/79644/annotation/58","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e And the guy didn't mind you sitting there.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396#t=906.24,907.44"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396/transcript/79644/annotation/59","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Oh, the guy, he wasn't at all, uh...","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396#t=908.04,909.62"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396/transcript/79644/annotation/60","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, so we saw you weren't writing any...","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396#t=915.18,916.48"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396/transcript/79644/annotation/61","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e It's all right, Reggie.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396#t=917.14,917.58"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396/transcript/79644/annotation/62","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e So then what are you doing?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396#t=918.96,919.82"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396/transcript/79644/annotation/63","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e I just waited for the situation to get itself out of the impasse and that it had to get out there, and it got out of there. But it was only a little thing, it wasn't that heavy as I tell you. It was a little things and you feel that he can be real nasty in these kind of things. But mostly when people want him to do something, he gets an animal defense, you know. Fuck them. And when I wrote that our project was turned down, he wrote me a letter of such nastiness, such hate of these guys, of these government guys. So full of hate, it's terrifying, you read it. Blind hate, very well written, written out. Okay. Of course, when making a film... It's a very good human school. Because, and that's, at least that is my way of working, you do it different, you. But the way I saw you going at it, you move people around. And the way that I worked up till now is make myself as small as possible. And wait, and you know, don't get in the way, and just at the moment that everything's right, I pick out what I want. It's a different approach. Which has to do with your character, of course. I think so, yeah. For instance, Opland is also interesting. That's what we did in...","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396#t=920.12,1033.31"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396/transcript/79644/annotation/64","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e In three weeks. This will be the second political conference.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396#t=1035.18,1037.04"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396/transcript/79644/annotation/65","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Political. This guy is very, as you can imagine, very disorganized. Very, very sweet guy. Very disorganized.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396#t=1038.47,1049.98"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396/transcript/79644/annotation/66","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 3:\u003c/strong\u003e You have to put your plate away. I don't know what to do.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396#t=1051.93,1055.09"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396/transcript/79644/annotation/67","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e And Vannekerken on drums.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396#t=1057.26,1058.54"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396/transcript/79644/annotation/68","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 3:\u003c/strong\u003e Like a boy.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396#t=1058.99,1059.69"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396/transcript/79644/annotation/69","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e So.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396#t=1061.43,1061.43"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396/transcript/79644/annotation/70","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 3:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah. Ha ha ha ha.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396#t=1062.3,1063.76"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396/transcript/79644/annotation/71","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Very very disorganized guy who is very hard to pin down on what is he really about you know because he's all the time flying around talking about other business","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396#t=1064.0,1080.1"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396/transcript/79644/annotation/72","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e this was a different problem","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396#t=1081.92,1082.74"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396/transcript/79644/annotation/73","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e But it's also waiting. But there was one terrible problem. I had to do this film in three and a half weeks, everything finished. From beginning to start. So I had two days to put together a scenario, or three maybe. And so there was his wife, who is terrifying. You shouldn't put that in any article, of course. It is just to explain. Terrifying, terrifyingly bugging the guy, because he's a very weak guy, very certain. And his wife is bugging him the whole day. So I come there, okay, we go work on the scenario, we go talk.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396#t=1084.4,1131.88"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396/transcript/79644/annotation/74","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e This is again you wanted him to be contributing to the scenario.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396#t=1133.0,1135.78"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396/transcript/79644/annotation/75","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e The same technique, he did, yeah and I made the soundtrack, you know, I made this interview technique soundtrack.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396#t=1136.51,1142.11"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396/transcript/79644/annotation/76","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e You interviewed him and interviewed him.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396#t=1144.41,1145.53"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396/transcript/79644/annotation/77","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e And from that I made the commentary, yeah. Okay, we talk about the scenario. That's why I would say, this is the first nice day of the year. Can we go to the sea? So we would wind up in Sandford at the sea, sitting in the sun. I was just completely fucked up. How are we going to make a film? In the evening I brought a tape recorder to interview him and when we made the test we heard it on tape his wife said that he had just a terrible Amsterdam accent and that he should take teaching, take speaking lessons and so he was completely screwed up for that evening.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396#t=1146.38,1190.82"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396/transcript/79644/annotation/78","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 3:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah, the next","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396#t=1193.54,1194.62"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396/transcript/79644/annotation/79","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e The next day, and I came just every day, I came home with a heavy headache, you know. So tense though.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396#t=1194.33,1201.83"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396/transcript/79644/annotation/80","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e What are you going to do? Had you been interviewing all day, or what?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396#t=1202.09,1204.81"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396/transcript/79644/annotation/81","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e No, I'm talking how we should make the film. The next day I think he had to paint something, make a painting in a museum. I filmed that. But also we had meant to go there at eleven in the morning and because this guy is very very vague, we went there only at four thirty in the afternoon. And then when he had finished the painting his wife started bugging him again that we should again go at the seashore and do this and that and go eat and we had planned to do this interview and nothing came of it and so the third day we got only down to business I was just there being there and waiting and putting him softly under pressure showing my unhappy face but I couldn't do anything about it But this wife became very very jealous that he was in the film and she wasn't, you see. Because she's a very narcissistic kind of type of girl. Older girl. A very pretty... ...Beauty. A faded beauty. Just a kind of sex bunt.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396#t=1205.28,1274.29"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396/transcript/79644/annotation/82","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 3:\u003c/strong\u003e Ha ha ha.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396#t=1274.9,1275.46"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396/transcript/79644/annotation/83","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e And she was very unhappy that he was in the film, and she wasn't. And so she started to screw up the whole time. Because when we met her without him, she was very nice, very, very nice. But when she's always degrading the guy, making him look like shit in public, embarrassing situations. And this also... I just had to wait for the guy to make his decision to do the film. As time went by it became urgent for him to do something about it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396#t=1276.54,1314.7"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396/transcript/79644/annotation/84","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e And you were still not saying, Jesus, I gotta do something?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396#t=1315.99,1318.63"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396/transcript/79644/annotation/85","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah, no, I said to him, well, listen, maybe we should start a little bit, because nothing was happening. But this is also my character, which I turned into a principal.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396#t=1318.95,1332.33"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396/transcript/79644/annotation/86","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e What, the character waiting?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396#t=1334.08,1334.86"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396/transcript/79644/annotation/87","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e My character is not to go at people immediately and shout them in the face and knock them on their head. It's not my character, you know. It looks a little bit silly to me, action. The moment you decide to go into action is always ridiculous. You feel ridiculous. And so I'm trying to postpone this moment as much as possible. And so you turn that into a technique. You say, I just let people develop themselves, their own lines. I will leave them freedom to develop their own line.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396#t=1335.1,1365.29"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396/transcript/79644/annotation/88","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 3:\u003c/strong\u003e Bye!","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396#t=1366.06,1366.06"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396/transcript/79644/annotation/89","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e It's not altogether true, she says, but there's something of that in it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396#t=1368.139,1371.52"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396/transcript/79644/annotation/90","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e Why do you think he's on the heat pushes a little bit here and there?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396#t=1372.31,1375.27"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396/transcript/79644/annotation/91","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e So if someone is developing...","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396#t=1378.03,1379.67"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396/transcript/79644/annotation/92","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e You're doing a bad thing, Egon Stein.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396#t=1379.97,1381.25"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396/transcript/79644/annotation/93","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e No, no, I just wait him to come up with my thing. So much that they can... I give them time to come up with what I want to get. When they don't come up with what i want to, I have the feeling that they are coming up with anything.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396#t=1382.169,1398.73"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396/transcript/79644/annotation/94","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e In photography, this is very much the technique.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396#t=1399.98,1403.24"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396/transcript/79644/annotation/95","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah, this is what I did this morning, more or less.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396#t=1403.56,1406.2"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396/transcript/79644/annotation/96","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e To something as you see something.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396#t=1406.85,1408.37"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396/transcript/79644/annotation/97","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Maybe you push a little bit here or there, but it's not the main thing.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396#t=1411.03,1414.39"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396/transcript/79644/annotation/98","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e Do you think I was knocking them over the head?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396#t=1415.61,1417.15"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396/transcript/79644/annotation/99","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah very much and I never saw you do that before and it's a good thing. I think it's very good thing you got for yourself. I like to see that, only I wouldn't like if it were a regular basis of human relationships. But I think as a matter of showing your position and achieving to be yourself it's very good.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396#t=1417.5,1452.68"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396/transcript/79644/annotation/100","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, I think it's only valid to the degree that one needs it for the job one's doing.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396#t=1453.68,1457.68"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396/transcript/79644/annotation/101","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Not only because you what you are doing you say well listen you you think of me of me as being this but i'm also that and you keep you keep that in mind maybe yeah","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396#t=1458.25,1472.01"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396/transcript/79644/annotation/102","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e But it depends on whether or not you really want to deal with these people, there's no reason for me to go out. I haven't told them, they don't know who I am, I mean Dick may have told them but Nikolai doesn't know who the hell I am as far as I'm concerned and I don't want him to particularly, you know, I don' t have any reason to tell him. I had reason to to tell Dick the other evening because of the power plug going on.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396#t=1473.07,1498.27"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396/transcript/79644/annotation/103","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah, but still I think you have the choice to do something like this or withdraw, and I think this is better. Because I say the moment of action looks completely ridiculous to me, it does very much, very hard to start a film, it's terrifying for instance. When you are in it, it is okay, but to decide I am going to do this subject is terrifying. You are hanging around for a month or two months, shall I sell myself to this subject? And at a certain moment you have to decide that you are going to this.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396#t=1500.24,1539.22"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396/transcript/79644/annotation/104","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e Do you have the fear that you can't make it?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396#t=1539.54,1541.0"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396/transcript/79644/annotation/105","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah, and you have the fear that you are tied up with something for maybe half a year, which doesn't mean anything to you. You are not sure whether it means so much to you, this subject. Maybe, huh? But, so it looks very silly to us to step into action, but of course it's much better than withdrawal.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396#t=1541.8,1565.02"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396/transcript/79644/annotation/106","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e But as an attitude in life, it's much better. This is very much a photographic technique that you learned. Lander Elsken and several of the other photographers, I suppose, who have been for us.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396#t=1568.6,1582.12"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396/transcript/79644/annotation/107","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Van Relske doesn't do, doesn't work this way. He doesn't. Van Releske pushes everyone, insults them, pushes people around. Stand there, go over there, do this. He makes them feel... When he's shooting. He gives them a bad time. Still camera. Every work. He gets so nervous he gives people a bad tim. Still it's mysterious that he comes up with good material. Because when I would see him working, and this is the impression many people have, it is unpleasant. It's mostly an unpleasant situation. I always felt that and I couldn't understand how he comes up with such marvelous work. But what he is doing is also sometimes pushing people so much around that they don't know what they are doing anymore.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396#t=1583.389,1628.73"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396/transcript/79644/annotation/108","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, then Vandalskin really isn't a photographer in the sense that Cartier-Bresson is a photographer. Vandaloskin is a creative photographer in a sense of creating from scratch. Extensions. Extensions, yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396#t=1629.92,1641.04"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396/transcript/79644/annotation/109","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah, but still in the result, I think the technique doesn't mean so much as your judgment, you see. Because whatever provokes the action... What is important is the choice you make afterwards, the choice you make in using the action. Maybe it is important to you but to me it's not relevant if you if you I might say if you write out a piece of drama and you you isolate it in such a way that that it gets an extremely candid feeling to it for me it is as well as if you you take newsreel style stuff and you dramatize it so much in your in your way of looking and way of editing that you create drama and this is the the fine, fine point of Leacock. It was the chair, he doesn't like it, I think, but I think what I found marvelous in it, that you have the whole American cinema, the American written up cinema expressed here, the American drama. The type of the, for instance, of the lawyer was something, it couldn't have been written better. It was... The Preminger film, the law, the trial, what was it? The chair? No, the Preminger Film.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396#t=1642.34,1737.31"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396/transcript/79644/annotation/110","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e Oh yeah, the anatomy of a murder.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396#t=1737.77,1739.49"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396/transcript/79644/annotation/111","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e You have this kind of classical lawyer type, played by James Stewart. And so I think these guys, Leacock and these guys got much closer to this archetype.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396#t=1740.81,1752.65"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396/transcript/79644/annotation/112","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e Even through an archetype with this guy.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396#t=1754.41,1757.83"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396/transcript/79644/annotation/113","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah, they got to an archetype of an American guy looking for justice and all that shit. They got this portrait through the Verite techniques, and I found that great, it shows to you the relative irrelevance of talking about techniques. It must have been a feeling which these guys had about this lawyer, which was expressed through the technique. And you get really, you get drama going there. It's not the authenticity. It's just the flavor added to the drama. But what is basically is the sense of drama.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396#t=1758.2,1801.22"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396/transcript/79644/annotation/114","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e Leacock rejects it because he thinks there's too much formal drama in it. And he thinks that they've passed over some of the important things about the lawyer.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396#t=1802.55,1811.53"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396/transcript/79644/annotation/115","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah, and this has to do with his responsibility, but still I think as a result it's a marvelous You get the same thing, what does he think about Eddie Sachs?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396#t=1811.95,1824.19"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396/transcript/79644/annotation/116","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e I think he likes it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396#t=1825.03,1825.63"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396/transcript/79644/annotation/117","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Because it's the same thing, you've got all the typical dramatic bits, the preparations, the talks, the talk with the concurrent, you know, the kind of good sports, you know, guys who will fight each other in the race are working together, rehearsing the numbers of the cars, the praying, you know, God bits, God-fearing American, the anonymous masses, and then the tension within the race which is built along very classical lines. And then a kind of an epilog where he vomits and all that. And where he finds himself alone, full of hope and of despair, with his Chevrolet or something. Do you find that the... This is the feature film structure. And the whole thing was built up like a feature film. There is no newsreel objectivity in it. I think it's very... I can't imagine how one would think that this is in the vaguest way objective, in the far way objective.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396#t=1826.19,1891.98"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396/transcript/79644/annotation/118","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e What do you see in it that makes it really non-objective?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396#t=1892.53,1894.39"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396/transcript/79644/annotation/119","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e The structure, the way of seeing, the strong way of isolating high points and the dramatic build-up and the whole way they see this character is also an archetype. It's the cowboy hero, or what do you have, with all kinds of delicate flavors to him. But he's a cowboy, a western hero.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396#t=1895.87,1915.33"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396/transcript/79644/annotation/120","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e This is funny, in other words, what you're saying is that really, that the cinema verite in America, rather than revolting against the Hollywood cinema, is in a sense confirming it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396#t=1916.02,1925.14"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396/transcript/79644/annotation/121","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e No, it is not confirming it, but it is creating a new, vital form of American cinema. I felt that. I was watching the chair with Remco and he said, Jesus, this is marvelous. You never could, because he is also interested in writing for cinema. He worked with Weisse, but he said you could never write up a guy like this so marvelously as he has written of himself. This is Remco who camped it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396#t=1925.43,1957.96"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396/transcript/79644/annotation/122","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e Comforts, yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396#t=1958.49,1958.77"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396/transcript/79644/annotation/123","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e And very exciting.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396#t=1963.12,1964.88"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396/transcript/79644/annotation/124","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e The interesting thing is that Likak really rejects it because what Drew has done is to find a classical structure, a classical structure for the film. What is that a classical? In a sense, you know, a beginning of a denouement, a drama, a drama, and to force a dramatic situation on the things that Lickak doesn't necessarily feel is there, or is not the most interesting thing about it, as he says in every little reading. That he feels that, well, for instance, in order to get the drama thing, the conventional drama thing they went back to the chair and shot phony shots of him going down the corridor and shots of him in prison, things like that, you know, which were afterwards, a month afterwards, in order to fit the film into the structure that they were after.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396#t=1967.34,2019.44"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396/transcript/79644/annotation/125","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e I can imagine that this makes him sick and I can imagine that these guys reject the idea of working towards a drama.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396#t=2019.92,2027.58"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396/transcript/79644/annotation/126","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e But this is why they've revolted in Drew.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396#t=2028.63,2029.91"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396/transcript/79644/annotation/127","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e But still, I think, in Eddie's sex, then, and still in the way of looking at the character, you cannot look at the characters with objective eyes. When there are happening so many things at the same time as we were talking about a moment ago, how can you be objective about a situation like that? So you go at it with the eye of your society. That means with all the American films in your head.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396#t=2030.62,2059.6"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396/transcript/79644/annotation/128","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e In other words, you think that they couldn't film without the archetype.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396#t=2060.67,2063.13"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396/transcript/79644/annotation/129","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e No, you can't go past it if you are... But still, this doesn't mean that the technique is useless, because what makes it unique are not the headlines, but the sidelines, the little things, which come into the frame, which creep into the frames just by accident or just on the inspiration of the moment.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396#t=2064.159,2088.55"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396/transcript/79644/annotation/130","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah, well work in this thing. This thing sort of seems like it's at a dead end, you know? No! Can you go with this kind of technique?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396#t=2090.659,2095.92"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396/transcript/79644/annotation/131","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e I don't think it's a dead end, no. It's a whole area of things to be tried. But what I like is when they are tied up with these human, large human types. Because if you would get really into intricate psychological nuances, it would become small talk of science. And I think we have to do with still the great feeling of the archetypes. Film has to do a lot with archetypes? Yeah, film has to a lot of archetypes, much more than writing maybe. I haven't thought out that line, no. No, but I think in film, what I like is a great feeling, great things, great types. And then have all this small stuff creep in through the sides of the image, you know, which gives its matière, its substance, which is real. Have a great line and then have reality creep in. Penetrate.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396#t=2096.239,2172.18"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396/transcript/79644/annotation/132","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e The line being what the theme is.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396#t=2174.1,2175.42"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396/transcript/79644/annotation/133","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e The lion, the theme, to me, I like it to be a great theme, like the Western hero is okay with me. And I think they have, with Eddie Sachs, they have found a significant form for it. I like Westerns, but I cannot say that I'm really moved by it, because it's in a world which is completely strange to me. So if he is killing the bad man. Is interesting, but I will never be moved deeply by it because, you know, we don't feel anymore in terms of bad men and good men, it's not valid. But if you transpose it to the racing tracks, where you get a whole lot of other notions, you keep the archetype, but only the bad men are replaced by speed, death, anonymous society, a whole a lot Clue! Themes can be brought into it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396#t=2175.39,2232.53"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396/transcript/79644/annotation/134","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e But what?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396#t=2232.81,2233.27"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396/transcript/79644/annotation/135","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e And you keep the same great feeling, only the details are replaced.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396#t=2233.61,2239.17"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396/transcript/79644/annotation/136","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e What do you think is special about this technique, so we have a western hero transported to the racetrack, but the fact that it's not a fiction film must add something else.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396#t=2239.7,2250.82"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396/transcript/79644/annotation/137","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah, it adds a lot. Yeah, first there is of course a point of convention, of an appointment we made with the filmmaker, that we wouldn't.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396#t=2251.09,2265.27"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396/transcript/79644/annotation/138","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e On agreement.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396#t=2266.87,2267.21"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396/transcript/79644/annotation/139","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e An agreement. He tells us what you see is real. It has happened. And this is a kind of a fascination which is hard to explain, which is a drama in itself, that you really were at the spot that you have defied the passing of time. This is something I couldn't explain. It's a very basic thing.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396#t=2267.66,2291.14"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396/transcript/79644/annotation/140","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e That somehow what you have seen has actually happened. It has happened, yeah. So does that add to its... It's the whole thing in photography.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396#t=2291.84,2297.96"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396/transcript/79644/annotation/141","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e The authenticity concept, which is enormous, but I can't explain it. It's the whole basic thing in your thinking. The authenticity.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396#t=2299.52,2314.08"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396/transcript/79644/annotation/142","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e What is it then? Is this a... It is maybe a...","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396#t=2317.29,2319.75"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396/transcript/79644/annotation/143","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e It is maybe a console... What?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396#t=2319.06,2320.66"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396/transcript/79644/annotation/144","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e Is it a morality of some sort?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396#t=2320.97,2322.35"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396/transcript/79644/annotation/145","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e No, ethics become involved later on, it's a basic feeling about things.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396#t=2323.11,2330.41"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396/transcript/79644/annotation/146","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e When does it happen? Where does it come from? When is it not there?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396#t=2335.21,2338.81"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396/transcript/79644/annotation/147","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e No, I'm in the dead end now, I didn't.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396#t=2345.34,2346.76"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396/transcript/79644/annotation/148","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e But why is authenticity so necessary in a formal composition taken from reality? The fact that you have to know that somehow that's that. You know, the fact that... Why is it that the fact, that when you find patterns in relationships that make an action look like a painting, it is somehow sometimes good photography? You know? That suddenly... When the blind, the two blind girls. The hand looking like almost a romantic painting or like a classic or like an angry face position of the hand why does that take on an additional quality as a fact that it's authentic and what makes it look authentic at the same time there's this double play","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396#t=2347.61,2396.83"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396/transcript/79644/annotation/149","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e I couldn't explain that. I'm sorry, but... You're constantly aware of that. You're constantely aware of it. Constantly. And I think what you could object to that photo is that we already take it so far out of its authenticity context. It loses some of its...","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396#t=2398.83,2417.93"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396/transcript/79644/annotation/150","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e Why is it taken out of its fantastic?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396#t=2418.54,2419.9"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396/transcript/79644/annotation/151","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Because of the extreme enlargement, because of the extreme framing. You don't feel the world around it, the material world isn't around it anymore.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396#t=2420.34,2431.76"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396/transcript/79644/annotation/152","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e What contributes to authenticity is the feeling of the material world around it. Maybe the hazard of it, I mean the accident of it. The accident. I mean, the fact that it's just accidental is just like this, and it wasn't posed that way.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396#t=2432.24,2448.36"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396/transcript/79644/annotation/153","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Somewhere, I'm stuck in this thing. Why, what does it change that Leacock takes? He takes it, my point is, and I believe in that, that instead of building drama. He just goes out for something else and ends up in drama.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396#t=2450.92,2472.34"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396/transcript/79644/annotation/154","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 3:\u003c/strong\u003e Mm-hmm.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396#t=2473.13,2473.13"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396/transcript/79644/annotation/155","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e He goes out for forgetting what is there, what is authentic, and he ends up in drama. So far that is fine. Still, the flavor is in the authenticity. You wouldn't need that.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396#t=2474.13,2486.69"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396/transcript/79644/annotation/156","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e The beauty of photography, then, is that the composition is found in nature, but yet is seen. And it's only the man who sees it that makes that composition. Nevertheless, there is this, what do you call it, duality or something, where it's also there in nature. And in a way, nature is kind of made to reveal something about itself.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396#t=2489.52,2513.16"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396/transcript/79644/annotation/157","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e And I think, yeah, maybe the idea is what is moving in a film like this, like a Leacock film, is that you have all of the time, you have the feeling that what you see there is only part of what is happening. That there was something going on there, historically, which was even more... Complicated and what more big which was bigger which was more diverse and which is going on to this day that I think you have this emotion it gives you the emotion that something is happening at this moment or things are existing at this moment outside yourself and maybe it's this obsession to communicate with these. With the material, with your surroundings, which gives us this fascination with the authenticity. Finally, finally, yeah, this becomes very mystic, and it's set very on the spot, but to look at a tree is one thing, but to confirm your life, you would like to be... At the same time, yourself and the tree. And you would like to be the landscape. And then you have really the feeling that you have seen it. And... So what these guys do when they film a real event is maybe give you the conscience of an existing reality. So not just a thing which goes on in the frame of a movie, but it gives you the feeling that it is still there and that the world around you exists, so that you are part of it. I don't know. It is a kind of an emotion.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396#t=2514.3,2643.76"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396/transcript/79644/annotation/158","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e May as well talk about Communion, you know.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396#t=2646.42,2649.04"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396/transcript/79644/annotation/159","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e But I don't know if this is shitty, but... In a made-up film, you feel that the elements are there just for the sake of the film, just for the sakes. There's a relationship between the movie maker and you. But in a film taken like this, you have the relationship between filmmaker and you, and the world which is outside the projection room at the same moment that you are seeing the film. There is a third thing going on. And you people were aware of this world outside the film And this also has to do with the framing. In a conventional film, you set up a frame and have things happen into this frame. This is mise en scene, I think. I don't give a shit for that. So what these guys do, like Robert Frank is the great idea, is always frame a thing. When the thing moves, they move with it. They never have the thing move according to the frame. They frame with the object. And you always keep a notion that your object might have moved another way and it will find world, even more reality or even more world. You can always keep aware of what is outside the frame. This is something you told me once and I think this is very basic also. You keep the feeling of what's outside your frame And you keep even keep the feeling of what is outside your film And what is outside your film is this whole tremendous set of events and spaces and things. And I think the emotion comes from the realization of the enormousness of this all.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396#t=2649.57,2765.26"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396/transcript/79644/annotation/160","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e And that still, you were never less but a point of view of all that. What? You were never the less but just a point of view on that. And in a sense, an artificiality.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396#t=2766.96,2774.46"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396/transcript/79644/annotation/161","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Something like that. And this adds to the drama of a little guy running in his racing car. It gives him a kind of futility. Because you know that this is the only scene that we picked out. It was an agreement to pick him out as a center of interest. But there were a thousand things at the same time that went on, and it also existed. I think this is a kind of ambiguous emotion you get out of authentic material. And also, in an authentic material, in anauthentic film, you have... The notion of hazard, which is that reality reveals itself in an unexpected moment, which means that things you would never accept in a feature film, if you were a director, which you never would think of happen, things that don't fit at all with the action, which creep in on the sides of the frame, which maybe go against the action. And which just show that there's something else going on.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396#t=2776.66,2843.86"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396/transcript/79644/annotation/162","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e You think it acts as a dialect? Yeah. There's a certain amount of a lack of control.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396#t=2844.48,2850.62"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396/transcript/79644/annotation/163","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e It's a dialectic. It makes it relative.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396#t=2851.94,2858.02"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396/transcript/79644/annotation/164","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e What's happening?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396#t=2858.649,2858.93"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396/transcript/79644/annotation/165","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah. How do you say it? Relativizes. Yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396#t=2859.35,2861.99"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396/transcript/79644/annotation/166","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e No, it makes it relatively good. Probably will.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396#t=2863.2,2865.8"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396/transcript/79644/annotation/167","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e That's a fascinating thing that keeps you aware of the very, very infinite context in which it is taking place.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396#t=2865.96,2872.62"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396/transcript/79644/annotation/168","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e Does this tie in with your idea of a kind of dynamic frame, which is the potato you've been talking about before?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396#t=2874.92,2883.52"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396/transcript/79644/annotation/169","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e I talked about the dynamic frame. This idea of tension within a frame. Within a frame? I think it's pretty much the same. Yeah, oh I see. The dialectical thinking within the frame. So only there it doesn't happen within the frame, but in the current of time. You go, you have the racer in his car. You are filming the face that he is putting on his helmet and getting into his car. But only in the current of this event, something happens which creeps into your frame. It's not a tension within the frame, but within the course of time, which maybe screws up the fluidness of your scene. And that's a different notion, a different flavor. The world has a right to speak back. Which brings you back on this feeling of dialog.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396#t=2884.47,2947.44"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396/transcript/79644/annotation/170","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e In a Blink-In. You are nevertheless, the editing is highly controlled.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396#t=2949.38,2956.83"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396/transcript/79644/annotation/171","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Of course, because at a certain moment you can't go on telling yourself that reality is stronger. I mean, it would be very nice if you could let reality organize itself altogether.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396#t=2957.73,2973.15"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396/transcript/79644/annotation/172","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e But I have a feeling that you...","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396#t=2974.11,2974.91"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396/transcript/79644/annotation/173","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e But you have to intervene at a certain moment.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396#t=2974.72,2976.28"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396/transcript/79644/annotation/174","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e That while all of the shots are taken from reality, taken...","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396#t=2976.75,2980.73"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396/transcript/79644/annotation/175","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e I have the last word.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396#t=2981.32,2982.1"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396/transcript/79644/annotation/176","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e You have had more than the last word, you've tended to turn the material into something more than what it was or what it is now.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396#t=2982.96,2990.96"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396/transcript/79644/annotation/177","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e But I never, I never suppressed.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396#t=2992.78,2994.08"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396/transcript/79644/annotation/178","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e How did you work with that? How do you mean? You never suppressed it?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396#t=2999.13,3002.47"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396/transcript/79644/annotation/179","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Let's say when something, so when reality manifests itself within a shot. I had to judge if it was of any significance to what I was doing. And if it were, I didn't have the right to cut it out in order to achieve another effect. I mean, when you see the boy walking with his stick, I think that is largely what happened. What happened to him, from my viewpoint. How I reacted to it. And I was already worried when I cut in the traveling shots of signs and stuff like that. I was worried because I had the feeling that I was making My idea prevailed over what had happened. You see, and so I was working between those two ideas, you know.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396#t=3004.3,3070.71"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396/transcript/79644/annotation/180","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, throughout the whole film, there's a very definite feeling of your idea, of the tone, and attitude toward it. But still, I... And you're just using the... You're using the actions as a kind of material, a play, for your idea. Which is never gonna have its roots in those though.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396#t=3071.1,3088.34"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396/transcript/79644/annotation/181","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah, but still you never feel that I have been making up something. You never feel it hasn't happened that way. Maybe it has happened slightly differently, but the tone of how it happened and how it was is very important to the film.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396#t=3088.71,3105.95"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396/transcript/79644/annotation/182","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 5:\u003c/strong\u003e Would you think of Blinkend as a report on something?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396#t=3106.21,3108.61"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396/transcript/79644/annotation/183","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e No, no, not at all. It's my personal expression. But I think the rules for personal expression are different. I think a term like a report isn't valid. These are all... Efforts of categorizing things. This is a report, that's a documentary, that is a feature film, and I think it runs all together. It's just one big stream of perception. And no, it's a personal expression, a personal theme, the theme of communication, of perception and so of communication. But I think, it is not worthwhile if you start just taking anything expressing it. You have to test it to reality. And it becomes interesting if reality winds up to confirm your feeling.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396#t=3109.06,3164.74"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396/transcript/79644/annotation/184","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e So you feel that within the film, you are making us, at one and the same time, a strong statement and the material you're using to make that statement tends to confirm it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396#t=3166.86,3177.24"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396/transcript/79644/annotation/185","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e What I found there was what I thought I would find. And when, for instance, let's say, and I think it is interesting to give this reality a fair chance to play its role. For instance, the bit of the playing of the kids and the music didn't fit in my setup. But I felt that what was there at this institution for the kids, in that it played a big part. And it would be unfair to leave it out. And so I tried to change my conception of the films in so much that I could fit it in. So it's a fight from both sides. Again, it's dialectics.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396#t=3179.11,3227.82"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396/transcript/79644/annotation/186","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e You've been shooting your own stuff. What difference do you look for in framing for films, when you're framing and shooting in a picture? In a photo? In a picture, yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396#t=3229.0,3239.5"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396/transcript/79644/annotation/187","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e When I When I shoot a photo, I'm very much aware of what is happening Within my frame. I look for attention within my frame","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396#t=3241.71,3252.19"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396/transcript/79644/annotation/188","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e What's happening, you mean anecdotal?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396#t=3252.4,3253.12"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396/transcript/79644/annotation/189","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e A situation, Yvonne sitting here, I look for, immediately my way of looking is conditioned. I see the people at the right behind her. I see little shapes of the chairs, you see, and this makes up an interesting tension.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396#t=3254.7,3273.42"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396/transcript/79644/annotation/190","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 6:\u003c/strong\u003e What tensions? You mean tensions in terms of the fact that those are chairs and this is a human being, or...?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396#t=3274.07,3279.31"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396/transcript/79644/annotation/191","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah, maybe a human being which is all weak and meaty, flesh, weak, the chairs, which have those graphic designs, and which have a perspective to them. The chairs in front are bigger than those in the rear.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396#t=3279.57,3295.13"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396/transcript/79644/annotation/192","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e How do you find that that comments on her?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396#t=3295.6,3297.92"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396/transcript/79644/annotation/193","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e I don't know, I couldn't say that, but if I would make a picture, I would have a meme. At first thought, if I'd react, you know, if i would follow my eye. And as an element of balance, of tension, I'd use the people in the right upper corner. The group. The group over there.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396#t=3298.59,3317.19"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396/transcript/79644/annotation/194","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396#t=3318.65,3318.65"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396/transcript/79644/annotation/195","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e And I don't know, I'm not supposed to intellectualize when I take a photo. No, of course not. But I'm just explaining how my looking mechanism works.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396#t=3319.55,3329.99"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396/transcript/79644/annotation/196","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e And then what about...","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396#t=3331.21,3331.71"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396/transcript/79644/annotation/197","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e And maybe I will just not do it because I don't want to be tied up with this mechanism. I will look for something else. But I will be looking for this kind of frame immediately when I think as a photographer. As a movie maker, I try to get rid of that as much as possible. And look for what is happening in the movement and the continuity.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396#t=3332.17,3361.78"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396/transcript/79644/annotation/198","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e Keep your ass.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396#t=3363.56,3363.94"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396/transcript/79644/annotation/199","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e People to follow them.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396#t=3364.64,3365.5"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396/transcript/79644/annotation/200","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e You do not look for spatial relationships, things that will make the frame static, or in a sense complete in itself.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396#t=3365.9,3374.64"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396/transcript/79644/annotation/201","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 3:\u003c/strong\u003e I'm gonna give it to you. Awww.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396#t=3375.32,3377.74"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396/transcript/79644/annotation/202","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e Maybe I'm saying that better, you understand what I mean?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396#t=3379.68,3381.76"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396/transcript/79644/annotation/203","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah like a photo make the frame complete like a picture photo Sometimes I have the feeling that the static situation expresses strongly a point. So then you have to relate what you see to your frame and to the overall meaning of your film. And you have think or to feel if it fits in. Like the little boy over the two tubs. There is a static frame. And of course there the frame does the job, the attitude of the kid and the kind of emptiness on one side expresses the kindof loneliness. After all the action we have had the play, you end up in one static frame which gives an interesting contrast to the to the thing before which has been done in close-up in movement and on the action and there I play on the stillness and when I play in the stillness I use a photographic frame.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396#t=3381.56,3458.21"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396/transcript/79644/annotation/204","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e Because it completed so.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396#t=3460.23,3461.01"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396/transcript/79644/annotation/205","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 5:\u003c/strong\u003e We'll see you then, Nicolas.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396#t=3464.85,3465.53"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396/transcript/79644/annotation/206","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e We should be going, eh? Alright, fine, we can talk a little more. We can continue on this line, this is where I've been trying to get you.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396#t=3465.94,3473.44"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396/transcript/79644/annotation/207","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 4:\u003c/strong\u003e So we're not happy with the rush as well?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396#t=3477.77,3479.15"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396/transcript/79644/annotation/208","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 6:\u003c/strong\u003e Wow. What's that?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396#t=3488.36,3490.91"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396/transcript/79644/annotation/209","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 4:\u003c/strong\u003e It looked to me like you had pretty good shooting, you know? I'm very happy with it. I think you'd be happy with that, no? You're happy with THAT, aren't you? I'm happy with the Russians. You are. It's a very, very difficult thing to... ... Clip things after which you're not good. Yeah? I think it looks good. I think I look good. I mean, I'm not judging on timing or story or anything else, but the Russians look good, you now? It's just a book to book. It doesn't matter you're liable to say something precious, but I just wouldn't want to miss it Really doesn't hurt anything I'm one of these vacuum sweepers, you know, that's You know, they're vacuum sweeper. That's be out there","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396#t=3497.73,3542.16"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396/transcript/79644/annotation/210","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 3:\u003c/strong\u003e Ha ha ha, Nikolaus.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396#t=3545.759,3546.5"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396/transcript/79644/annotation/211","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 4:\u003c/strong\u003e I collect everything, you know? If it doesn't turn out good, I sell it on the flea market. What's your intention, anyway? It is me? I'm going to do a book on improvisation. But also I'm doing an article on Dutch film for an American film magazine. You're not a part of that, huh? Well, the Dutch fell. You think there's a touch film? I don't know, I'm asking the question. Seems to be quite a lot of things happening since the scope came out. I think that went... Do you like it? Oh. Now listen, if you talk about the Dutch film, that there is something going on, I don't think... I think there might be something going, but that still has to be shown. When did that start? Just last couple of years ago. Now, cinemas exist now more than 60 years, and in those 60 years an enormous amount of countries have made films which are very important, which show the mentality which was good for filmmaking. During all those years, what we did was getting foreign film directors to Holland, who made most of them very bad films here. Yeah, like, uh, like a little dress or something. Even in a person like O'Fools, he didn't make a good film. They have the mentality that they thought that foreign filmmakers would be better than Dutch. And they're still... Because I feel very, very, uh, jené, uh... It doesn't matter, it doesn't hurt you. You know, just quiet. Go ahead. If you really want to work without it, uh we can, but, uh it's not hurting anything. Just let it go for a while. Why Old Fuse? What did Old Fuses make here? What? Johan, what was the name of the movie of Ophuls? See you in the next video! I've got them filming me, so... Most of the films. After the war we had the... They tried to renew. The difficult thing with film is that it is very expensive. And you... It doesn't need to be expensive, but most of the time it is. And you have to have faith in somebody. Faith that the money you invest in a film will come out later on. And Dutch producers think that if they take foreign filmmakers, they have a better chance to get the money out again, which they put in. For a Dutch producer to put up money, he has to have the assurances he's going to get it. That's why he chooses a foreign maker. I don't know why he uses a foreign film maker, but he... He doesn't, I think he has an impression that he can rely more on foreign people than on Dutch. And after the war we had stout, we had... Rota, we had... Pantai Stammerende, another one, New Zealander, we have now De Rijfus who is making a film. And all those people, all those foreigners, they come here and they make a film not really because they are interested in the story, because the story is pushed on them, but because they want to earn money. And that is a very, very dangerous situation. Because the film they make is not a film they really want to make because it is... They make it because they have a chance to earn something and make in their own country another film, which is good. I think this is a very dangerous situation. I think that the only thing which is changing at the moment is that there are a few people who really want to make film who are willing to give up an enormous amount of things to be able to express themselves. That might be a good thing, but we still have to see what's happening out here. What form is that taking? What are these people doing that are trying to express themselves? The difficult thing is, it was those people, and I don't know if it was just those people. What kind of thing are they moving toward? I can only talk about I can only talk about myself, if you say... Who do you have in mind if you have to talk about it? There's a new group, you say, of people who want to make something and express themselves. Don't you feel you're among them? You mentioned it in the moment ago, a scope. Out of the people who were in scope, I was one of the... The editors of Scope, but they don't feel very connected to the people who are in it anymore. The film of Pym, which came out at Arnhem, he put a leaflet, which he says that he has a new production method to work under the circumstances of the weather, which are available to work not in studios, but work in indoor locations, to work with, not with actors, but with all those things were already said by... In the french cinema about seven eight years ago so there actually is nothing new but what they are doing is not something new either the only thing which is maybe in common is that we want to work very cheap if you work very cheep you have a chance that they trust you because if there's a flop there's always a chance to get that money that small money out of it again But it's a terrible thing that I don't see that the climate is very good at the moment. But I don' see a group of... You do feel the climate is good in that moment, but what... Because in other countries they have, they try to protect the film industry too much. In England, if you are not a member of the... Of the I thought it was an organization, the organization of the Union. If you're not a member of the union, you can't work. In France, if you have no ticket, if you didn't work as an assistant director for so many years, and if you don't do this and if not, you cannot make your film. If you want to work as a foreigner in France, it's very, very difficult, nearly impossible. And they protect it. They're very afraid that... Other people will take their breath. And in Holland, it's a small paradise. Yeah, you don't have the union. We have no union. We have not protection. And because there's no protection, you can work. You have not yet that you have to have a minimum group, crew, that you to have 25 people in your crew. But you can have work with three people if you want to. It makes that the freedom here is extremely big. It makes also that if you want to work on locations as we are doing at the moment that you everybody's very happy to help you like the scene in Schiphol everybody's vey very happy that you want to film there because it's never done the film which was made there by Men, the film with Bert and the Spire who came in from the call the Spires who came from the Call they filmed one minute and I think they Worked on that seven days. One minute of film with 70 extras. And we came in one afternoon and we shot about six minutes of film. That makes them very surprised and they are very happy to see that new mentality. Don't stop the whole operation The wonderful thing in Holland is that you can get nearly everything. What do you feel is a kind of film that's being made in Holland among these three or four different people that are starting to work? The difficult thing with Holland is that the Dutch people have a very, very low modality. You mean that in intellect, intelligence, you mean? No, in their outlook of on life. There, a long time ago we, the Dutch people were known for their discoveries, the sailors, the adventurers. The people who went out into the world and looked and conquered the world. That's a very, very far... Peter is very far away. At the moment... The Dutch people are very very narrow, very narrow-minded, very small in their outlook. It's nearly a contrast from what was before. If you film here in the street, you have a scene and you film the people, they all look with long faces. There's nothing going on. There's no... To improvise here in Holland with an actor or with a non-actor is nearly impossible because they are very, very introvert and very, they're not happy if you see them in the There's not person who laughs in the streets. How he suddenly jumps up and then claps his hands. They all are very bored people. And if you take that surrounding, if you film here with this film with people, you get films in the style of Makker Stokte Wilteraars. What is that? That's a film by Rademakers. One of the best Dutch films who was made is who has a mentality which is off. Which you say is the Dutch mentality, then would I be right in saying that you're in a kind of paradox, if I might take a French mentality here, a French attitude, you, in a sense, feel that your purpose is to create a kind of Dutch cinema, or you're making a Dutch cinema which would express yourselves, and in a since, revolt against the... It was the old cinema idea of bringing in outside directors to make Dutch films for commercial reasons, who only make commercial films not reflecting the Dutch. And yet, you making films do not want to reflect the mentality that the Dutch people want you to find, and so you were looking for some other mentality. Is that true, that it would seem to be, from what you've just said, a paradox in the problem of the young filmmaker here. Follow me. The difficult situation is that there is something and a foreign filmmaker who comes here, who looks around, maybe has a chance to see something new here and capture it. We are here for a long time. And I have to work with the conditions which are available here and that's why I took in this film a French actress in which most of my locations are not really typical Dutch locations they want to enlarge the spirit a little bit You're not making a Dutch film, then, if I understand. You're trying to make... What I would like to make is a European film, not a Dutch film. A film which has parts... It's very difficult. Europe, Western Europe, is a very small part. And filmmaking shouldn't be put down to those small countries. We shouldn't have Dutch filmmaking or Belgian filmmaking or English filmmaking or French. It should be more like a on European filmmaking. Which is true if you are a Dutchman, I think. Which is not true if your are a Swede, or a Frenchman, or an Italian. Why do you feel that you have to reflect through almost a French language? I understand from what you say, I understand that's what you're trying to do. What you consider new Swedish or why would you have to adopt a Swedish or a French film mise en scene? It's not a mise-en-scène, it's the story you are telling. If you set away that story in Holland, with Dutch people, I don't think I'm ripe enough to be able to... I'm looking for something outside Holland, and to put it into Holland and to put Holland outside in the world around Holland. This seems to be the problem with a lot of guys, I sensed that in Weiss's film, an effort to seek out other values than values that were even Northern European, to find some sort of, I mean, the willful references to Sarah, yeah, Sarah, I don't get it. Or Kelsarite, isn't it? In the picture, yeah. And others as a post-impressionist, which was dotted throughout the film. It was a desire to belong somewhere else. And this kind of fits with what you're saying here. I'm wondering if this means anything, or strikes anything. And Vans made a film, Heroes on a Rocking Chair, which is shot in Italy in Rome. And I think also he has difficulties in situating a story in Holland. I think there's no connection between what Vans is doing and what I'm doing. No, except that I see that from what you're saying and what he said, what he did, what I saw he did there was this reaching out to be something other than Dutch too, you know, an effort to espouse a, what you might call a wider area of artistic esthetic values, you now, something other. Yeah, but esthetic. I think in a French film it's more esthetic. We have a different word, the word doesn't mean the same thing as you think it does. I'm talking about the style and everything else. I'm not saying that your film is esthétisant. That's not what I'm saying. I'm just saying it's esthetisant No, but in France's film, I think that Grand Jot is most of all an esthetic film. It's a film which has a music, there's no dialog in the film, it's all very, very smartly cut into small sequences. It's stylish, yes. It's not a Dutch film, but there's a film which is... Being played anywhere. That's what we said, I said... And I think that's an esthetic reason. But in my film, I don't want to make an esthetic film. But I have a story which I'm telling. And I said to tell that story with typical Dutch people is a story, which will interest a lot of people, probably. It will not interest me. I'm not interested in showing a story about the to people who go into a cafe and who sit at a table with a carpet over the table and who sit there and who... If you look around in Holland, you have to find exceptions to make an interesting story. What do you think actually about Holland, the situation of Holland in the film? Now, I have nothing to say now. Because we already talked about it, you know, for one and a half hours, and I can't put it together in a minute. But no, substantially, if I betray Johan to say that he thinks such and such a thing... No wait, I don't mention that, I mention that What I'm interested in you is basically your feeling here, which is very, I think, important, whether you say, you know, what you think is important as material for what I'm trying to get together. And I think it's rather important to see that there's this effort to go on beyond of the Dutch scene and on beyond the Dutch life. Almost all of the young Dutch film makers. Johan works in documentary, his direction is a little different. The fact that, not only for the first time, the seeds of something that isn't documentary is growing in Holland, you know, among the Dutch is an interesting phenomenon. You can say that is the... We went to a lot of films, we saw an enormous amount of films and that we are now so influenced by Italian and French films that we want to reproduce that feeling into a Dutch film. That would be very easy to mention that I don't think it is true. There might be something of truth in that. What is true. That I have difficulties in telling a typical Dutch story is that I don't feel very much at home in a typical dutch surrounding. Maybe when years pass and if I still make films, I feel something, but I really, in my films, am an escapist. When I finished my high school I escaped from Holland and I stayed abroad for 5-6 years. Everywhere and then I came back to do the film school I went to film school here. In Amsterdam, and I worked here, but really I'm all the time trying to find a chance to be able to leave this country again. That might be a very, very serious and dangerous thing. Why do you say that it might be serious and dangerous? For Dutch filmmaking. To leave the country. Not to leave the country, but to have a mentality like that. There are things in Holland which I love, but I don't love the mentality. I hate the mentality, the dish mentality. I feel myself very far away from the mentality and I when I see myself doing things which remind me of that mentality I I feel very very bad. And to come to a typical, as you say, Dutch filmmaking, I don't think I have the qualifications to... To work on a typical Dutch film area. I don't know what the trick of that filmmaking is, it's in the documentary. I would like to make good films. Films which are... That's a very difficult thing to say that, but it's a good film. A film which, first of all, has been very, very good to work at. I think it's very important that the crew, the people who work on the film, have a very good time while working on that film. I think that the mentality of the people and the atmosphere which is there, during the shooting, reflects itself in the film when it is finished. The second thing I think that... It's not important if those people like the film, at the end, what is going to be done. For me, if the film is finished, I feel the people, my friends, I would very much as they enjoy that film. I don't think I would be ever a filmmaker for a very, very big public. If you don't want to be a commercial filmmaker, then you look at films more as a kind of communal experience of a group. No, but I don't... Sorry, they're very difficult to tell you. Al Mazel's told me that, uh... Thank you very much. Enjoyed shooting when he had something good it was like sex it was it was an end in itself and uh and that when he knew he'd worked well you know and that he was making contact with things that were going on about him that was almost the sort of communion rapport between he and the subject and whatever uh was the It was a satisfaction to have been thrown in. This is something, something to this kind of group experience that you were talking about. A kind of intense companionship. Yeah I would like to work with a very very small crew and to be able to work with a small small crew it is essential to work with a smaller crew because what I'm doing is very very personal if I had a lot of people on the on the set I could never do what I I want to do and to able to to work for that small crew I have to have an That everybody suddenly, there's no working hours, there is no schedule. They don't work from 9 o'clock till 5 and then over hours to be paid. It is just the result that counts and the mentality, atmosphere during the shooting. And from that mentality during the shoot comes a better film. And from the better film comes a mentality which is able to reflect itself on the next film. I don't think I will ever be a commercial filmmaker. But what is happening, what is going to happen, I don't know. I just know from the first film that this mentality was very, very important and that maybe the second film will be a little bit more expensive film. A little bit more expensive, but... A little bit more things can be done, but it will never be a very expensive film. I always think that the mentality of the people, that the joy of working together, the joy of making a film is primarily the thing in a film. Did you, is this something you found out as you went along or did it, and did this sort of relationship grow of its own in making the film or did you help further that? No, I always had that impression in the shorts which I made before as a... That if the mentality is good, the result is good. If something, if some struggle goes on during the making of the film, it reflects itself in the film. Then you must find out, do certain things that condition, help condition the mentality. I think the very important thing is the story which I like to film is the story of my own, which I write myself. But I think I would always like to make that kind of films. But the second, maybe the first important thing is the group of people you choose. If there's one outcast, one person who is not fit in the group, he's able to... To make the whole film. If you work with a big group, if you work with 25 people or 40 people, it doesn't matter. The story is not personal, there's a story which is on and you have to shoot in your shooting schedule the numbers 25 till 27. That's the day of shooting and the actors learn their lines and it is very easy. You know where the camera is going to be put, you know what's happening. But if you have something which is a lot of improvisation, a lot of things which are happening just at that moment, and you want to capture those things, when you have your actors and you are putting your actors against each other. It's not always a nice way to do it, but you want to have a scene in which there's an... An interior battle between them, which has to explode in the scene. You have to talk with them, you have to make them, without them knowing it, to prepare themselves, that while you're shooting the camera, you give directions and suddenly they react against you, but you made the atmosphere between them already like so much, that they actually explode against you, that in the scenes they explode against each other. And that The explosion of those things is... Makes that the group of people you have is very, very important. So you set them up before the scene, getting them angry at you you say? I make them angry with each other. What can you give me an example of? No, I'm still making that film and it's not, not, uh... You better, if you put it out, I'll give you like an example. Because I'm, I am still making the film and if, uh, I don't want to talk about the... Let's go on to something else. See, I just spent some time in England with three guys working on improvisations. One guy was finishing a film which was entirely improvised. He worked on a frankly hypnotic basis. Delving into the people and drawing out of the people their aspects of themselves which he brings into line with the characterization another guy's doing uh is finishing a thing of the Dave Clark five which is just getting finished it's an entirely improvised film also along the lines of the Beatles film And then Nick Lester was just very still. The new baby's been also improvised. Generally, the principles run the same. I was just curious in knowing what particular methods you were using. Could you give me an example of another film you did that you don't want to talk about this movie? I made a short film about birth, 37 minutes, which is completely improvised. Which had a big trouble was that the people I put together, I had the impression that they didn't know each other. I thought they didn' t know eachother and what happened during the shooting, I found out that they knew each other and that some liked eachother and some didn't like eachother. And it was a wrong start to start that film. Because what they wanted to happen, kind of happening during the shoot didn't. In this film. Uh, I'll hang in there too, John. I'm going to get some wine. Do you want to continue now? Sure man. It's going to be fun. Hold on, we'll do it again. Where can I find it? Yeah, I will have one, just for the kicks, just to... She gets mad at me. I think I'm a principlist. I generally don't smoke. This film was not... I'm going to film him waking up. Is that the info where it's from? Because I had a scenario, but I also had a Dutch actor, and I don't like to, it's very difficult to write your film at the desk. The pen and paper to say I am going to have the camera here and I cut at this moment and then I am gonna have the camere there, I think that is a very lousy way of filmmaking. Because after you've done all the work on your writing table there's no actually... The joy of filmmaking is no more any longer there. It's just an illustration of something which you have worked out on. I think that the film needs preparation. Very little. Most of the improvisation of the preparation of a film is the production preparation. You have to have a set. In a set you have to have the things which are necessary. You've to have, as a director of the film, you have to know very well what you are going to do. And you have be able to communicate very much with your... Another way you have to, sometimes to be able to communicate very well with your actor and sometimes I don't believe at all that you shouldn't. Depends on the scene you're going to shoot. Difficult thing I had with this film was that my actress, Ann Collette, is very, very good. And she would be very, good in improvisations. But I had difficulties with that my film was half in French, half in Dutch. Which makes it very difficult to improvise. You couldn't say one word in Dutch I had to say Quite a few lines in Dutch, but you had to Learn out of her head. But that was still not an enormous problem, the very big problem was my Dutch actor. And as far as I know, I don't know any Dutch actors who can improvise. Why did you take an actor rather than picking up someone else who had not had any experience at all? Was there a reason for that? Yeah, that's the reason. Because I wanted to try, I wanted her to try and she is an actress as well, but not a theater actress. She looks marvelous in it, I mean, the whole sequence where we're coming through the airport, she's very much with it, you know? He had a complete breakdown in that scene, he was crying and all. But that was one of the things which was very difficult, was that my... This is part of my shooting script. And the frame is... And this is the airport. I told him what I wanted, him to stand there and her to come in and get the ticket and go and walk out. And I told her about what was happening and I knew how much I had to tell her and how much I had tell him, but he was very, very afraid that he would give something of himself into the movie. He was afraid to give something. He was very afraid all the time. He had to have something. He had a newspaper, or an apple, or a hat, or glasses, or something to do. Was he a theater actor? Here's a sea otter. She's not. And that made an atmosphere that... In the beginning it was awful. I had a number of fights with him. He wanted to have everything prepared. He was working from here to there. And while he was working an extra should pass here so that he had a chance to look at the extra. Then he worked here and sat down. He had a change to turn his head. Here he would order a drink while ordering. Here we would have a chance of that. Everything would have to be prepared. And it was impossible, I didn't want to work like that and it made it well I was improvising, I gave him the rough thing that he was during the shooting all the time trying to find something trying to find a point in the ceiling to be able to look at give him a call just have a point to look at, and then... And that was just the things which I had to kill on that thing. He shouldn't have a poin, because if I had a point to look, then he put that face. If he was sad in the film, he put the sad face, if he was happy, the happy face. That didn't come from inside. And I'm not interested in seeing faces, happy or sad faces. I'm interested in what's behind the face. So you had an enormous problem of trying to condition him to get rid of all of his acting attitudes and all of this, uh, this expression. I, uh... I read in an old text on acting for films, uh it was formulas of how the actor was supposed to register happiness, register sadness, you know, just set things. And it reminded me very much of what you were saying, that the actor's... Need, especially the theater actors need, to hang on to something that they can put on, you know, just as they put on glasses and hats. That's why I think it's very important with an actor like I had, not to tell him too much. To tell him very little, to tell them, you know, you're going there, and she is coming, and I can talk with her. I can tell her what's happening, because she doesn't need those things to look at. She doesn't needs hats or glasses or wine glasses or cups. She just needs to know what she has to do. Does this thing, then? With her whole heart? She says we should go, she says. Okay. I'm so damn sorry.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396#t=3546.87,5803.37"}]},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396/transcript/79644","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["English [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141812/file/262396/transcript/79644/annotation/212","type":"Annotation","motivation":"subtitling","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/file_transcripts/associated_files/000/079/644/original/trint_Coll458_jb0063_VanDerKeuken_02_transcript.vtt?1747153447","format":"text/vtt","language":"en"},"target":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/file_transcripts/associated_files/000/079/644/original/trint_Coll458_jb0063_VanDerKeuken_02_transcript.vtt?1747153447"}]}]}]}