{"@context":"http://iiif.io/api/presentation/3/context.json","id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/iiif/0v89g5j167/manifest","type":"Manifest","label":{"en":["Interview with Pier Pasolini [1/4-in. magnetic audiotape], September 23, 1965"]},"logo":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/029/original/uo-logo-hires.png?1580744881","metadata":[{"label":{"en":["Description"]},"value":{"en":["1 sound tape reel : 3.75 ips; 5 in. 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André RC Rafael André RC in his study and his apartment in Rome. If he arrives, our translator will be Senior college, who has put me in contact with many of the people here in Rome. The interview will be done in French.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262346#t=5.55,39.87"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262346/transcript/76669/annotation/2","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Therefore, welcome to the blue.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262346#t=41.27,42.06"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262346/transcript/76669/annotation/3","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 3:\u003c/strong\u003e Yellow agenda is up again by the end of the I'm going to say this procedure. We we then we.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262346#t=42.39,51.97"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262346/transcript/76669/annotation/4","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e Believe we will go. Senior Carlos village couldn't come. So I'm going to ask the questions in French and he will reply in Italian. I'm going to try to get the best out of possible and I don't have them translated later.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262346#t=53.22,70.83"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262346/transcript/76669/annotation/5","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 3:\u003c/strong\u003e What we found is a semi basket zipper jeopardy the it shows a.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262346#t=71.43,79.74"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262346/transcript/76669/annotation/6","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Canoe Nuance.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262346#t=80.88,81.23"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262346/transcript/76669/annotation/7","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 3:\u003c/strong\u003e Proces appeal. I will say the demand is, you.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262346#t=81.47,85.16"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262346/transcript/76669/annotation/8","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e Know, I must.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262346#t=86.33,86.6"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262346/transcript/76669/annotation/9","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Say, the test of the compound, superficially Italian, launched tomorrow. There's a test to the compound and the source. The proposal, they they question our fancy name. Yeah. We compound. Naturellement on by way of way and dialog on the news sources. They see our Puskas. You boy. Powerful. Positive. C'est. Your play sees circus. Circus. Who's a video? We me does not sound so because you're chefs that were say kaboom. Oh, I can take up the of fat the gene the film. A pre apply Como vu. Come of course a conserve. 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In fact, I think he's trying to make these films more noble. I think that's part of the job. I would also make certain films. Perhaps De Sica shouldn't make certain movies, because he has done some magnificent things. Giavatini is a professional filmmaker. He spends the three quarters of his day at the disposal of young directors, writers and screenwriters. He's always taken on attempts at films that almost always fail. And we have to say that Zavattini is the center of intelligent cinema in Italy, there's no doubt about it. All the people of a certain quality who take care of cinema especially among young people, even those who are not young anymore. Turn around to Zavattini because he is a man who always has the right word for everyone, he is always the right advice, he is the man who shatters his ideas and gives them to everyone, always enthusiastic, always full of desire to do, that is, for him it always starts at that moment, life again is always enthusiastic and always exuberant, so this gives courage and strength, one goes to Zavatini. With nerves, maybe he's angry because something doesn't work, etc. He tones it up, just because he's a man like that, who gives this confidence of an incredible activity.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262347#t=20.96,125.0"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262347/transcript/79350/annotation/3","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e He has never been able to be a director, really. So why?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262347#t=128.85,132.77"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262347/transcript/79350/annotation/4","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e No, no, capito.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262347#t=134.44,134.84"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262347/transcript/79350/annotation/5","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e To be a director, Zavattine. He never wanted to be himself a director.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262347#t=135.55,141.63"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262347/transcript/79350/annotation/6","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e No, he never wanted to. He thought about it a few times, but he probably never had the time. He never had time because he always took a film with his wife. This morning I had a meeting with him for this film in Emilia, with two producers, and we saw each other from noon to noon, and he left for Paris at two, and he received me while he was packing. This is precisely to say that is always available, so he's a wonderful character.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262347#t=142.3,173.24"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262347/transcript/79350/annotation/7","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e Est-ce que vous pouvez penser à une question que je pouvais poser à Zavadini qui m'aiderait? Penetrate en lui.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262347#t=175.13,188.39"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262347/transcript/79350/annotation/8","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e But I would like to ask you, what are the films that you couldn't make? He couldn't do it because they didn't let him do it again. Without a doubt, they are the best subjects. He has many projects that were left behind because he fought and fought and then he shot them again and that he couldn't make because they are too intelligent, too interesting. And then I would ask him something about Italian cinema, in the sense of what direction the cinema is taking, what are the positions of the groups in Italy. And then, of course, the problem that interests her is the use of non-professional actors, the use... Of the cinema veriteco. He made the first films of this kind, he made them, because he made Love in the City. He made... Another film, now I remember, three or four years ago, always also with true stories, then he did... The mysteries of Rome, the mysteries in Rome. Well, one is always interested in these things. One always gets married when it comes to working for a film of this kind.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262347#t=190.18,283.48"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262347/transcript/79350/annotation/9","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, thank you very much.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262347#t=285.539,286.62"}]},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262347/transcript/79350","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["English [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262347/transcript/79350/annotation/10","type":"Annotation","motivation":"subtitling","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/file_transcripts/associated_files/000/079/350/original/trint_Coll458_jb0044_Pasolini_02_p4_transcript.vtt?1746655744","format":"text/vtt","language":"en"},"target":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/file_transcripts/associated_files/000/079/350/original/trint_Coll458_jb0044_Pasolini_02_p4_transcript.vtt?1746655744"}]}]},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348","type":"Canvas","label":{"en":["Media File 3 of 5 - Coll458_jb0044_Pasolini_02_p2.mp3"]},"duration":2887.36653,"width":640,"height":360,"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/public/images/audio-default.png","type":"Image","format":"image/png"}],"items":[{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348/content/1","type":"AnnotationPage","items":[{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348/content/3/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"painting","body":{"id":"https://aviary-p-universityoforegonlibraries.s3.wasabisys.com/collection_resource_files/resource_files/000/262/348/original/Coll458_jb0044_Pasolini_02_p2.mp3?1739225840","type":"Audio","format":"audio/mpeg","duration":2887.36653,"width":640,"height":360},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348","metadata":[]}]}],"annotations":[{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348/transcript/79358","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["AUTO_TRINT_Coll458_jb0044_Pasolini_02_p2.mp3 [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348/transcript/79358/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e I was saying that the style of my films is a simple, almost frontal, almost hieratic style, while the style in the Gospel is a chaotic, complex and disordered style.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348#t=8.35,24.15"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348/transcript/79358/annotation/2","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e The style of the previous films, Mr. Pazolini, is a simple style, that is to say a frontal style, a hieratic style in a way, while the style of The Gospel is a chaotic style, a complex style, an messy style.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348#t=25.09,38.85"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348/transcript/79358/annotation/3","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 3:\u003c/strong\u003e I also understand that there was much more editing in the Gospel than in Mamaroma or Akatona. Vous n'avez pas la possibilité. You can work by small pieces with your interpreters in the same way you did in the Gospel. Did this cause you any other problems?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348#t=42.03,66.18"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348/transcript/79358/annotation/4","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e No, no, I could use the same short pieces, only the framing, the point of view, the movements of the appearances, etc. Have changed. In reality I always make a short piece at a time.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348#t=67.46,80.16"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348/transcript/79358/annotation/5","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Mr. Pazzolini always shot a very short piece of scene at the same time, but the framing and movements of the extras were naturally different.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348#t=82.11,90.97"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348/transcript/79358/annotation/6","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 3:\u003c/strong\u003e It was more concerted in a way. I know that this seems to take our starting point back a bit. You said in an interview with Les Cahiers that you find it impossible to work with actors. Does this apply to your interests as well as to your problems in directing people? What do you want to say? By the impossibility that you find to work with the actors. You explained that you think that Mama Roma partly owes its flaws to the fact that you worked with Anna Magnani. Can you explain that to me? Do you understand?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348#t=92.42,158.75"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348/transcript/79358/annotation/7","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e But I don't want this thing to be too generalized and formalized. For example, in Ricotto I took Orson Welles, I got along very well with him. The film I'm about to make now, I'll take Totò, who is an Italian comedian. And I'm sure I'll find myself good. I don' t want to formalize myself, I'm telling myself that I'm not good with actors. I'm saying a relative truth. I want this to be clear. My difficulty is that I'm not a professional director. So I haven't learned any of the cinematographic techniques. What I've learned least of all is that I don't know the technique of an actor. So I don' know what language to use to make me understand the actor. In this sense I'm unable to work with actors.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348#t=160.71,214.5"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348/transcript/79358/annotation/8","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e We must not generalize too much when Mr. Pazolini says that he is unable to work with actors, because for example in the sketch, the Ricotta, he used Orson Welles and this work was very fruitful, he was very happy. And even in the film he is about to shoot now, he will shoot with Toto, an Italian comic actor. The fact is that being not a professional director, he did not learn the technique. Cinematography, that is to say that he does not know what language to use to make professional actors understand each other.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348#t=215.98,252.58"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348/transcript/79358/annotation/9","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 3:\u003c/strong\u003e I wanted you to tell me a little bit about your experiences with Manny Raney-Wells. What have you learned now, what do you see as the requirements imposed by a professional actor on stage that differ from the requirements... The non-active.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348#t=257.19,287.08"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348/transcript/79358/annotation/10","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e But the main difference is that the actor has his own art. He has his way of expressing himself, he has his work that he adds to mine and I can't mix it up. Because otherwise, being an author, I wouldn't be able to conceive of writing a book together with another. Now, the presence of an actor is practically the presence of another author in the film.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348#t=288.71,316.07"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348/transcript/79358/annotation/11","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e The professional actor has an art, a profession, a way of expressing himself that is his own and that is juxtaposed with that of Mr. Pazolinier, that he can't amalgamate. He is an author and naturally he can not write with another, and when he uses professional actors, it's as if there was another author in the film.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348#t=318.01,337.87"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348/transcript/79358/annotation/12","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 3:\u003c/strong\u003e So how, if you can explain to me, how did you work with Orson Welles to get this result?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348#t=339.03,349.17"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348/transcript/79358/annotation/13","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e I think for two reasons. First of all, because in this film, Orso Welles didn't play another character. He played himself, he played the caricature of himself. And then, because Orso welles, besides being an actor, is also an intellectual man. So basically, I adopted him as an intellectual director, more than as an actor.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348#t=351.67,370.87"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348/transcript/79358/annotation/14","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e There are two reasons. First, because Orson Welles had to play his own character in this film. He did his own caricature. And then, because he is an intellectual, Mr. Pazolini used him as an intellectual director.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348#t=372.23,387.67"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348/transcript/79358/annotation/15","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 3:\u003c/strong\u003e You used him as a non-actor, in a sense, playing his own character. So it was playing the character of an actor.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348#t=389.84,398.28"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348/transcript/79358/annotation/16","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e He is a very intelligent man, he understood this, he didn't have any difficulties and he did it with great skill.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348#t=400.12,405.54"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348/transcript/79358/annotation/17","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 3:\u003c/strong\u003e Did you use the same way of working with him in the instructions you gave him? That is, did you simply explain the scene, scene by scene, shot by shot, or did you explain more generally before? Did you leave him more free than the non-actor?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348#t=406.35,427.01"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348/transcript/79358/annotation/18","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, it was a very short and simple part, so there was no need for many complications. I told him my intentions and let him do it. He immediately understood well and did it as it went well. There were no difficulties in this sense.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348#t=428.03,442.33"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348/transcript/79358/annotation/19","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e It was an extremely brief and simple role. Mr. Pazolini explained to Orson Welles his intentions. Orson welles understood right away and did exactly what he was asked to do.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348#t=444.54,454.88"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348/transcript/79358/annotation/20","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 3:\u003c/strong\u003e Have you done the same thing with an ammonium anion?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348#t=455.42,458.02"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348/transcript/79358/annotation/21","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e No, with her it was much more difficult because she is really an actress in the true sense of the word and therefore she has her own bag of expressive technical notions in which I could not enter because it was the first time that I had a relationship with an actor. Now I have done a bit of this experience, then at least I would put myself in trouble, but then I did not even know how to put myself into trouble in the right terms.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348#t=458.9,479.34"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348/transcript/79358/annotation/22","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e With Anna Maniani, things were much more difficult because she was a real actress with all her knowledge of expressive and technical notions, in which Mr. Pazellini could not get in. Before working with her, he had never had the problem, while now he will have this experience.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348#t=481.14,500.82"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348/transcript/79358/annotation/23","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 3:\u003c/strong\u003e Do you now consider a way to overcome this fear of baggage, of things that an actress or an actor brings? How can you face that? For example, you don't know the experience you're going to have with Toto, but Toto will surely arrive with a lot of things already prepared. Can you start thinking now?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348#t=504.87,532.95"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348/transcript/79358/annotation/24","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e I think I managed to overcome this fact by working on the fact that they are actors. It's like a non-actor working on a series of unexpected, unexpected things, leaving their vital confusion. For example, when you say good morning to the secretary, I hate you, I leave him all his vital ambiguity and so in this case I give for an actor, precisely for his baggage of actors.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348#t=533.69,564.29"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348/transcript/79358/annotation/25","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Mr. Pazolini thinks he can solve this problem by using the actors' luggage, as he used when it came to non-professional performers, their vital ambiguity. He thinks that by working with professional performers, he will use all their luggage, all their actors' business stuff.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348#t=565.93,586.11"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348/transcript/79358/annotation/26","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 3:\u003c/strong\u003e Based on what plan? You don't like luggage, but you're going to use them as luggage?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348#t=588.05,599.69"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348/transcript/79358/annotation/27","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e Yes, you're right, I'm... If I try to mystify, if I try to portray an actor as if he wasn't an actor, then I'm wrong. Because cinema, at least my cinema, but I don't know about the others, always makes the truth stand out. If instead I act for an actor knowing that he is an actor and therefore portraying him for what he is, not for what is not, but for what it is, then I hope to be able to portray him. Otherwise, the character that you have to play must be suitable for this. Now, just by chance, the characters in my new film are ambiguous characters that have something real, human, profound, and something invented, absurd, clownish, fabulous. And then the double nature of the actor, all-man and all-clown, these double natures serve me for my character.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348#t=602.96,656.08"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348/transcript/79358/annotation/28","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e If Mr. Pazzolini tries to mystify, that is to say, if he tries to use a professional actor as if he was not, it's a mistake. But if he uses an actor, knowing that he is an actor and if he is using him as such, then things work. And in the film he is about to shoot, the characters have a kind of duality.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348#t=658.02,680.76"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348/transcript/79358/annotation/29","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e Yes, the characters in this film have a kind of double nature. They are true, profound, recognizable, human-like, and at the same time they are symbolic, they are symbolically clownish. All in all, this double nature works because it corresponds to the double nature of the characters of the film.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348#t=685.319,705.4"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348/transcript/79358/annotation/30","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e The characters that Toto will have to play have a double nature. It's a character that has a truth, a depth, a human reality, and at the same time, it's also an absurd, abstract character, which has something of a clown. So this double nature, played by Toto, works, because it corresponds precisely to the double nature of the character.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348#t=707.18,731.5"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348/transcript/79358/annotation/31","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 3:\u003c/strong\u003e Do you think you can explain to Toto this intention?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348#t=732.12,737.3"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348/transcript/79358/annotation/32","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e Of course, I told him right away. As soon as I met him, I said, I need a character like her, who is Neapolitan, and therefore deeply human, and I always have this clonish art, so abstract. I told her right away, yes, yes.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348#t=739.09,750.73"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348/transcript/79358/annotation/33","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Mr. Pasolini immediately came to know about his intentions and explained to him that it was a double character. That is to say that there was a deeply human Neapolitan character and at the same time something clownish.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348#t=751.69,768.93"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348/transcript/79358/annotation/34","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 3:\u003c/strong\u003e You don't think that being an actor, Toto Essere, to play both the clown and the human character.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348#t=772.96,781.08"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348/transcript/79358/annotation/35","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e No, no, I told him this to leave him free, because otherwise I felt that he would have been worried, since it was the first time he made a film at such an ideological level, let's say, he has also made some good films, always at a purely artistic level, so... Like Unquista, we would say, in Italy. And then, probably, he was a little worried. So, to leave it completely free, I said this to him. That is, to make him do what he has always done, he must not do anything different from what he's always done.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348#t=782.88,808.38"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348/transcript/79358/annotation/36","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Mr. Pazolin knew right away that he was free, that he didn't have to worry, because it was the first time that he would shoot a film that had a certain ideological level. Until now, he has always shot films of average quality and that didn't contain ideological content. So he told him to do what he usually does, nothing else than what he normally does.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348#t=810.49,833.77"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348/transcript/79358/annotation/37","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 3:\u003c/strong\u003e I'll call you back here, I'll be in touch. A small precision to take up the previous line. A mechanical precision Do you do a lot of rehearsals before shooting, or do you shoot right away, looking for chance?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348#t=837.02,858.42"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348/transcript/79358/annotation/38","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e No, no, generally I never do any tests. I go around immediately.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348#t=859.93,864.21"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348/transcript/79358/annotation/39","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Generally, Mr. Pazolini does not repeat, he turns right away.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348#t=866.43,869.57"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348/transcript/79358/annotation/40","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 3:\u003c/strong\u003e It requires simple camera movements that you can repeat immediately. You don't want to complicate life for the cameraman.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348#t=871.859,882.72"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348/transcript/79358/annotation/41","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e No, no, the movements of the car are very simple, generally, except that for the Gospel for which I have adopted the most complex movements of a car, but never in the sense that I have never adopted a dolly, I have always turned, in short, almost frame by frame, so some panoramic, some simple movement of the cart, but nothing more.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348#t=883.69,910.39"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348/transcript/79358/annotation/42","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Mr. Pazzolini usually uses a very simple syntax with very simple camera movements. Except for the Gospel, where he had to use more complex movements. But anyway, usually he shoots plan by plan, and he does some panoramic or some traveling, but nothing more. He never used Dolly.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348#t=912.72,937.02"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348/transcript/79358/annotation/43","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 3:\u003c/strong\u003e Never used the dolly. Mr. Pasolini was already a well-known writer before he made cinema. And then it was launched into the cinema. You tell me that you are not a professional signer. I understand that your first interest was literature. It allowed you to learn and, in a sense, to invent a cinema. So, if you want, I want to leave you free to talk about things that struck you. Of cinema, of the cinematographic language that you were inventing yourself. What were the possibilities that led you to push your work to the extent that you gained experience?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348#t=939.56,1022.34"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348/transcript/79358/annotation/44","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e My lack of professional experience didn't push me to invent, it pushed me to reinvent. I had never learned anything in any experimental center, in any school, so when it came to making a panoramic, it was the first time I made a panorama in the history of cinema. I reinvented the panorama. Only those who have a great professional experience are able to invent also technically.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348#t=1026.439,1055.82"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348/transcript/79358/annotation/45","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e The lack of professional experience of Mr. Pazzoli did not lead him to invent a technique, but to reinvent it. That is to say that when he did a panoramic for the first time, he discovered the panoramics. Only those who have a great professional technical experience can invent a new technique.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348#t=1058.16,1076.72"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348/transcript/79358/annotation/46","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 3:\u003c/strong\u003e But you are still outside of the Academy, you see. So you had to discover things for yourself, if you invent. You talk about cinema language as if it was one thing that could be used as a French language or as something else. But is that what you want to say?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348#t=1078.66,1101.0"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348/transcript/79358/annotation/47","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e I want to say that the technical invention, since I thought I would put the accent above all in asking myself what the technical inventions were, I didn't even do one technical invention. Then they invented a given style. In fact, I think that MFILS were quite recognizable for a certain style. Now, style does not always imply technical inventions.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348#t=1102.41,1124.17"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348/transcript/79358/annotation/48","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Mr. Pazolini did not invent anything from a technical point of view. He did not make any technical inventions. He simply has a particular style, but this style does not imply any technical invention.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348#t=1127.77,1140.65"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348/transcript/79358/annotation/49","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e For example, Godard is full of technical inventions. For example Alphaville, for the last film, there are four or five things completely invented with the photograph made of pure negative or certain technical shenanigans that he has. You can see that they are the result of a long professional research. Now I have never dared to make inventions of this type because I am a bit out of technique.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348#t=1141.89,1164.77"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348/transcript/79358/annotation/50","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Godard, for example, is full of technical inventions in his latest film, Alpha Ville. There are at least three or four inventions that show a long search in the professional field. Mr. Pazolini has never done these researches because he has never dared to do them because he lacks this professional technique. In fact, the prime","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348#t=1166.5,1191.23"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348/transcript/79358/annotation/51","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e First of all, my first operation was to simplify the technique as much as possible. This is a bit contradictory, because I, as a writer, tend to be technically very complicated. That is, my written page is technically very complex. While I write a violent life, which is technically complex, I wrote a cartoon that is technically quite simple.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348#t=1191.32,1215.74"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348/transcript/79358/annotation/52","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e His first operation, his first work, was to simplify this technique as much as possible, which is quite contradictory because in his work as a writer, on the contrary, he has a rather complicated technique. And at the same time that he was writing A Violent Life, which is a complicated work, he was shooting in Catone, which was a simple work from a technical point of view.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348#t=1218.11,1239.71"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348/transcript/79358/annotation/53","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e This, in my opinion, is the main limit of my cinematographic career. Because I believe that an author must have the complete knowledge of all his instruments. Partial knowledge is a limit. And so, at this moment, I consider that the first cinematographic period of mine is about to end, and then a second will begin in which I will be a professional also in the technique.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348#t=1247.79,1277.31"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348/transcript/79358/annotation/54","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e According to Mr. Pasolini, it limits the lack of technique. Because he thinks that a filmmaker must have a complete knowledge of all the technique. And he thinks he has now completed the first period of his cinematographic career. And now he will start a second period, a second cycle, in which he will be really professional.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348#t=1279.85,1304.71"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348/transcript/79358/annotation/55","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 3:\u003c/strong\u003e I say it a bit stupidly, but what have you discovered or learned that makes the first period end and a new one opens up? Not just the technique, in the strict sense of the term, but the language, the structure, the things that interest you now. Because, as in your books, in your literature, you manage to master the language, it comes from a certain reflection, a certain discovery. So I wonder, now that it's fresh in your memory... What did you discover in the sense of the artistic style of cinema and its structure?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348#t=1312.379,1376.51"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348/transcript/79358/annotation/56","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e No. You present us. He tells me that for those who watch the movie, it's also the whole thing.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348#t=1376.88,1382.06"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348/transcript/79358/annotation/57","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Do you speak simply of cinema or of the whole of the work?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348#t=1384.25,1387.77"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348/transcript/79358/annotation/58","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 3:\u003c/strong\u003e Non, je parle le cinéma maintenant, le cinéma.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348#t=1388.3,1390.34"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348/transcript/79358/annotation/59","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e To be honest, the only thing I discovered was the pleasure of discovering it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348#t=1392.12,1395.96"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348/transcript/79358/annotation/60","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Sincerely, in all honesty, the only thing that Mr. Pazzolini discovered was the pleasure of discovering it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348#t=1398.23,1402.99"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348/transcript/79358/annotation/61","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 3:\u003c/strong\u003e You speak like Godard. You spoke, for example, in your interview with Cahier, about conventions. I don't know if that's the word you used, but the idea that certain styles can be used as well as language, as a language mode. For example, the documentary style has a meaning, not only technical, but also significant. I'm trying to find the development of your style through your... Through what you have learned in the cinema.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348#t=1404.86,1467.79"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348/transcript/79358/annotation/62","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e It's difficult to answer, but this is what I answered to Megodar, because it's a question that is impossible to answer. Because I don't believe that if I believed in a teleology of development, that development has an end, an improvement, but I don' believe in improvement. I believe that each one of us grows but doesn't improve. Improving is always a somewhat hypocritical alibi. Now, believing in the pure growth of each of us, I see the development of my style as a continuous modification, I can't say anything about this.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348#t=1470.06,1499.06"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348/transcript/79358/annotation/63","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e It is impossible to answer this question because Mr. Pazzolini thinks that we are developing but without improving ourselves. He thinks that his style is a continual modification but without getting better.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348#t=1500.39,1513.71"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348/transcript/79358/annotation/64","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, it's a bit simplified, yes.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348#t=1517.85,1520.01"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348/transcript/79358/annotation/65","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 3:\u003c/strong\u003e In any case, in order to reproduce, I will do a translation of the Italian. This is simply to allow me to... I was wondering, in the structure of the film, your films don't operate as conventional films that tell a well-intrigued story. We feel a certain development of tone and ideological themes that come into play. I would like you, if you could, I hope there will be no answer, to talk to me about how you conceive the structure of your films, the structure, which is made to walk from one end to the other, which holds us. D'un bout à l'autre, si vous pouvez me parler de ça. I'm going to ask her to do the audit.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348#t=1522.36,1603.5"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348/transcript/79358/annotation/66","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e Yes, I know, but it's a very demanding question, and I have to talk for half an hour. It's impossible for me to answer this question right now. It's so difficult. Do you know what I want? I want you to read, in the next Cahiers du Cinéma, a long study on these problems. Maybe we'll talk about it later. You still stay in Italy a lot, don't you?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348#t=1603.9,1625.46"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348/transcript/79358/annotation/67","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Do you still want to stay in Italy for a long time? Because in the next issue of Cahiers du Cinéma, there is a long study by Mr. Pasolini on his problems that you have just talked about. So he would prefer that you read it first and that you talk about it later.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348#t=1626.85,1640.31"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348/transcript/79358/annotation/68","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e In a few words, it's too difficult for me to answer this question, because it implies not only an exam of my films, but also an exam of my conscience, to put all my Marxism, all my cultural struggle of the 50s, it's a question too vast, impossible for me.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348#t=1641.89,1656.97"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348/transcript/79358/annotation/69","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 3:\u003c/strong\u003e I'm not going to stay in Italy, but I'm going to come back to France when it comes out. If I write to you, can you give me some information about it? I'll read it. It interests me a lot because I think it's still... The use of non-actors also imposes, in a certain sense, a new... Stuck to you.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348#t=1659.04,1689.53"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348/transcript/79358/annotation/70","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e I can say this in a very schematic way, that at the moment cinema is being divided into two parts. And these two different types of film correspond to what is already in literature. In literature there is already a high-level literature and a low-level one. But while cinema so far has given high- and low- level films, but the distribution was the same, now the organizational structure of cinematographic production tends to differ. Cinema de sé. They will gradually become more important and become a distribution channel for which certain films will be distributed. While the rest of the distribution will come normally. This will really make two different filmmakers. Then in this other level of cinematographer, which will have as distribution Cinemade 6, it will be for such a chosen audience, it will have its own story and the other will have another. In this story, probably the choice of innovators will be one of the structural constants that will have a certain importance.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348#t=1693.79,1766.37"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348/transcript/79358/annotation/71","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e In a very schematic way, we can say that cinema is dividing itself into two completely different branches, as these two branches already exist in literature. These two branches existed already in cinema, that is to say that there were high quality films and low quality films, but the distribution was the same, while now the cinema of death takes on an increasing importance. They are becoming like a second distribution network. So there will be practically two cinemas, one high quality cinema and the other.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348#t=1767.92,1810.73"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348/transcript/79358/annotation/72","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e Then the structures of high-level cinema will probably be modified because there is no longer an industrial organization that is cumbersome and heavy, so all possible experiments will be possible, including the one to use actors.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348#t=1812.849,1827.33"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348/transcript/79358/annotation/73","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e In this high-level cinema, there will no longer be the imperatives and laws of the industry that make their demands on the realization of films weigh. Therefore, the structure of cinema, the film structure, will be able to change. And among other things, we will no more have the need to use professional actors. We will be allowed to call upon those we want, non-professional actors.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348#t=1830.3,1855.72"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348/transcript/79358/annotation/74","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e And that will also change the style of cinema.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348#t=1856.75,1859.31"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348/transcript/79358/annotation/75","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e This certainly transforms the film from a style point of view.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348#t=1861.29,1865.03"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348/transcript/79358/annotation/76","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 3:\u003c/strong\u003e I know you're going to... I'm going to read them out loud. In this article, do you speak of certain data based on dialectics or based on human perception? Which allows us to structure a film, a work, so that it has a unity, an integrity, which is different from the old way, which is based on a story.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348#t=1870.86,1910.31"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348/transcript/79358/annotation/77","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e Ma mi pare che lei, però... Parlando di strutture... And the structure of cinema is probably unique. I don't know if a structuralist critic should give the structural characteristics of cinema, he could not distinguish a cinema with history from a cinema without history. I don' think this touches the structure, but it probably touches the upper structure, that is, the style, but it is not a structural fact. The lack or presence of a story.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348#t=1912.37,1944.69"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348/transcript/79358/annotation/78","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e The structure of cinema is one and only. You can't imagine the fact that a film is a story where it isn't. It's a superstructure, it's a matter of style, but it doesn't touch the structure of the film.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348#t=1946.92,1964.54"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348/transcript/79358/annotation/79","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 3:\u003c/strong\u003e History is an effect of style, if there is an intrigue or a story.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348#t=1967.24,1971.66"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348/transcript/79358/annotation/80","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e It's a fact that concerns the style, not the structure of cinema, because I know that structuralists in France have tried to make a structural exam of cinema. But I think they couldn't make these distinctions. For example, literature is unique. Literary structures are unique and they include both prose and poetry. However, even though the structure is unique... There is a language of prose and a language of poetry.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348#t=1972.33,2003.72"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348/transcript/79358/annotation/81","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e The people who tried to distinguish in the structure of cinema were not able to establish a distinction. It's like literature, where there is prose and poetry. It's a single structure, but it's two languages.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348#t=2006.7,2020.58"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348/transcript/79358/annotation/82","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e And so cinema will probably also have this distinction. The structure of cinema is unique, obviously, because I don't think we can touch on the structural laws that apply to any film, they are more or less the same. A Western or a Godard film has some structures that are identical. A certain relationship with the viewer, in a certain way. Of photographing, framing, there are two identical elements in both a banal western and an art film.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348#t=2023.16,2053.61"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348/transcript/79358/annotation/83","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Similarly, the structure of cinema is unique and there are laws that cannot be changed or modified. For example, if we take a simple western or a film by Godard, there are always the same elements. There are certain frames, certain shots, certain laws that are the same.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348#t=2055.79,2072.29"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348/transcript/79358/annotation/84","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e But the difference is that Godard's film is written through the typical characteristics of the language of poetry, while normal cinema is written according to the typical features of the prose language.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348#t=2074.83,2086.51"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348/transcript/79358/annotation/85","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e There is a difference, that is to say that a film of Godard is written according to the characteristics... Structurelle de la poésie, tandis que le cinéma normal, un film normal, est écrit selon les caractéristiques de la prose.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348#t=2088.719,2104.88"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348/transcript/79358/annotation/86","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e The lack of history is simply the prevalence of the language of poetry on the language of prose.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348#t=2107.38,2115.7"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348/transcript/79358/annotation/87","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Le fait qu'il manque une histoire dans un film, cela veut simplement dire que le langage de la poésie prévaut sur celui de la prose.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348#t=2117.61,2124.23"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348/transcript/79358/annotation/88","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e It is not true that there is no history. There is history. Only that, instead, it is told in its integrity. It is told elitistically, in a flash of imagination. It is used and told in a disproportionate way. However, there is history!","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348#t=2126.05,2144.23"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348/transcript/79358/annotation/89","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e It is not true that there is no history. History always exists, but it is told in a different way. That is, it is not told in its integrity, but in a more fanciful or elliptical way.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348#t=2145.42,2160.36"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348/transcript/79358/annotation/90","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e Yeah, I don't know about that. So the distinction between a prose cinema and a poetry cinema is practically the same. It is not said that the poetry cinema should be poetic. Many times one can adopt the schemes, the canons of the cinema of poetry and make a bad film. Vile and bad. While another director can adopt schemes, canons, of a prose movie, that is to tell a story and make poetry. Like in a Chekhov novel. Is more poetry than in a bad poetry of, I don't know, a bad poet.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348#t=2164.06,2201.54"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348/transcript/79358/annotation/91","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e But there is therefore a cinema of prose and a cinema of poetry. But it is not said that a filmmaker who adopts the laws and the canons of the cinema of poetry, faces a poetic film, he can very well make a veleiter film, a bad film, while a filmmaker who intends to take the canon, the laws of the cinema of the prose and tells a story, can very well make very good film, as for example in a of Chekhov, there is... Beaucoup de poésie.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348#t=2203.91,2233.52"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348/transcript/79358/annotation/92","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 3:\u003c/strong\u003e So I think that's about all I want to ask you. I apologize for asking you sometimes small questions that you wanted to have answers to. But these are questions that people don't ask often enough. And one of the things that pushed me to meet you and to meet some other people was that for most critics who give interviews, who interview people, don't question what a director wants to know. I want to thank you very much for giving me this little moment. So I wonder if there's something going through your head that you would like to add to all of this.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348#t=2238.42,2300.73"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348/transcript/79358/annotation/93","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e I've never lost so much","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348#t=2302.68,2303.62"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348/transcript/79358/annotation/94","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 3:\u003c/strong\u003e The structure, of course, is very difficult to talk about. It's interesting to take the same thing. The structure is difficult to consider. It's very interesting that you see it as a clear and unique thing, as a single problem, with different styles. It seems to me that yesterday, there may have been laws, even physical laws. That operates in a structure that makes a spectator remain caught in a film, from one end to the other, whether with or without a story. I wondered if you considered the problem from this angle.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348#t=2307.18,2356.81"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348/transcript/79358/annotation/95","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e I refer to the term structure in the sense that it gives structuralists, especially French. For example, Levi-Strauss, if he goes to Polynesia to look for the structural, social laws of some tribes of that place, he is not thinking about which is better and which is worse. He was looking for the laws. He is one who wants to establish the laws of the cinematographic structure. He is not looking at a good movie or a bad movie. In a commercial film or a poetry film, you look at and read the cinema. In this sense, the cinematographic structure is unique. Then, on this unique structure, the values are articulated, that is, the style.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348#t=2358.52,2398.99"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348/transcript/79358/annotation/96","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Mr. Pazzolini takes the term structure in the sense that we mean the French structuralists. For example, when Lévi-Strauss goes to Polynesia to observe a Polynesian tribe, he observes the physical laws of this tribe without asking if it is good or bad. Similarly, for cinema, when we observe the structure of cinema, we don't think if a film is good, or if it's bad, but it's simply the structure of cinema that we observe.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348#t=2401.1,2430.02"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348/transcript/79358/annotation/97","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 3:\u003c/strong\u003e By observing this structure, as Libby Strauss does. Does it lead you to other things, even the physical structure of a film? How does it operate?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348#t=2433.44,2447.38"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348/transcript/79358/annotation/98","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e Here the problem is completely open. Here we could talk only for three hours. I don't know anymore. I wrote about Gaillet, the problem of the place. Then I wrote other things that I will make him have. It is such a difficult problem that I can not even summarize it. Because it is a problem that has been debated by many people. It is a matter that is becoming more and more difficult to summarize.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348#t=2450.15,2477.21"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348/transcript/79358/annotation/99","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e It is such a huge problem that it is even impossible to sum it up because a problem that has been debated, we can summarize it, but a problem which is currently being posed, we cannot, it is not possible.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348#t=2478.43,2489.39"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348/transcript/79358/annotation/100","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e I don't know what conclusions I will come up with, so how can I summarize it?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348#t=2491.959,2495.06"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348/transcript/79358/annotation/101","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Mr. Pazolini is thinking about it, so he doesn't know what conclusion he is going to reach, and it is not possible for him to summarize it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348#t=2496.13,2503.85"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348/transcript/79358/annotation/102","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e I can only say this in two words, one of the problems. For example, the foundation of languages is the word, the linguistic sign. But this linguistic sign has a grammar. That is, the language sign is a noun, verb, adverb or interjection. The linguistic monad, the cinema's linguistic sign, what is it? Is it a noun or a verb, for example? There is still no grammar of the film, we still don't know if the fundamental sign, if there is distinction in the cinematographic language, of the noun, of verb, of adverb, of interaction, etc. We still have to establish what it is.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348#t=2504.28,2546.35"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348/transcript/79358/annotation/103","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e In two words. One of the problems is, for example, that in the language, in the words, the sign of the language has its grammar. That is, there are nouns, verbs, adverbs, interjections, while cinema has not yet a grammar, it has not been defined. And then, basically, the fundamental sign of cinema, we don't know if it's a noun, if it is a verb, we don' know exactly what it is.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348#t=2548.12,2575.54"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348/transcript/79358/annotation/104","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e This is one of the problems. We still don't know. While a writer, an idiot, knows the grammar of his language, none of us know the grammar of cinema. We still have to know that it's the grammar. So it's all about getting started.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348#t=2579.68,2597.38"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348/transcript/79358/annotation/105","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Yes, it's one of the problems, because even the worst writers know the grammar, while nobody in cinema, none of the filmmakers, know the cinema grammar. We're just starting, it is just the beginning.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348#t=2599.57,2612.33"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348/transcript/79358/annotation/106","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 3:\u003c/strong\u003e I'm not going to push you any further on this. It's one of the things that deeply concerns me, this consideration of the structure. It seems to me that we must first eliminate from our conception the old idea. Of syntax taken from the spoken language to reinvent, based on the phenomenon of perception through the eye and the ear, to reinvent another kind of thing that we can call grammar, if we want, but which would no longer be a prisoner of this ancient idea of written language. I'm not going to push you any further like that, but I think you're right. You think it's still possible, in almost scientific examination of cinema, that we can get to a certain understanding of what this structure is.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348#t=2613.75,2692.47"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348/transcript/79358/annotation/107","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e I think it is possible to write a grammar that is not a calculation of a linguistic grammar, that is something else. Without reading it we do calculations, because we are used to knowing our language grammar. Evidently, however, the grammar of cinema is something completely different. It could be done, but not yet... I don't know, for example, that it has been referred to me, that the French structuralists have said that the foundation of cinema is not what corresponds to the phoneme in language, but it is the synthesis, that is, a set of images.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348#t=2692.57,2740.96"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348/transcript/79358/annotation/108","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Mr. Pazuin is convinced that we can develop a cinema grammar that does not take as a model the linguistic grammar, but we are still at the origin of the problem.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348#t=2744.24,2757.44"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348/transcript/79358/annotation/109","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e I don't know if in France, in the system of studies deepened on this, it can be that in France you have gone further than in Italy, I don´t know.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348#t=2762.15,2769.75"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348/transcript/79358/annotation/110","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 3:\u003c/strong\u003e In France, there are a lot of studies. Who in France suggests that I see this problem?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348#t=2772.58,2780.66"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348/transcript/79358/annotation/111","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e Come here.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348#t=2782.09,2782.37"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348/transcript/79358/annotation/112","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Do you know someone in France who speaks French? Yes, we don't have any of these problems.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348#t=2783.22,2789.0"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348/transcript/79358/annotation/113","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e I understand. I know that Barth talked about films. Roland Barth. Probably he knows everything, probably there are others too. In Italy he was translated and known as Bart. Probably there is also someone else, I think there are some others who are interested.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348#t=2791.85,2813.6"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348/transcript/79358/annotation/114","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Yes, Roland Barthes took care of the cinematographic sign which was also translated into Italian, but it is likely that there are others in France.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348#t=2815.4,2826.03"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348/transcript/79358/annotation/115","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 3:\u003c/strong\u003e You mean the sign, the cinematographic sign. Is that...","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348#t=2827.22,2831.52"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348/transcript/79358/annotation/116","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Yes, I did.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348#t=2831.79,2832.25"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348/transcript/79358/annotation/117","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e Yes, I used the word used by linguists. If there is no word, there is a sign. It is called the insegno because it is a linguistic sign. I invented the word insegna to indicate images.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348#t=2834.74,2847.88"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348/transcript/79358/annotation/118","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Yes, usually we say l'insigne, when we refer to the linguistic sign and Mr. Pazolini invented a word that is im-signe, which refers to the image.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348#t=2849.81,2860.95"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348/transcript/79358/annotation/119","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 3:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, Mr. Pacerini, thank you very much. I've bothered you enough, and I thank you for responding so directly, often to my a little elliptical questions. Thank you very.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348#t=2862.87,2876.69"}]},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348/transcript/79358","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["English [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262348/transcript/79358/annotation/120","type":"Annotation","motivation":"subtitling","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/file_transcripts/associated_files/000/079/358/original/trint_Coll458_jb0044_Pasolini_02_p2_transcript.vtt?1746656097","format":"text/vtt","language":"en"},"target":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/file_transcripts/associated_files/000/079/358/original/trint_Coll458_jb0044_Pasolini_02_p2_transcript.vtt?1746656097"}]}]},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370","type":"Canvas","label":{"en":["Media File 4 of 5 - Coll458_jb0044_Pasolini_01.mp3"]},"duration":3796.06204,"width":640,"height":360,"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/public/images/audio-default.png","type":"Image","format":"image/png"}],"items":[{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370/content/1","type":"AnnotationPage","items":[{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370/content/4/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"painting","body":{"id":"https://aviary-p-universityoforegonlibraries.s3.wasabisys.com/collection_resource_files/resource_files/000/262/370/original/Coll458_jb0044_Pasolini_01.mp3?1739226489","type":"Audio","format":"audio/mpeg","duration":3796.06204,"width":640,"height":360},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370","metadata":[]}]}],"annotations":[{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370/transcript/79359","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["AUTO_TRINT_Coll458_jb0044_Pasolini_01.mp3 [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370/transcript/79359/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e Testing one, two, three. Testing one two three. Bon, écoutez, je t'ai en train de me demander la façon de vous parler et souvent je pose des questions qui ont l'air un peu bêtes, vous voyez? Alors je veux pas éviter ces because these silly questions reflect, nevertheless, the things that we do. For which I want answers. I'm looking for answers, and I know that these answers are almost impossible to find. I couldn't answer these questions, but I thought that it could lead us to some findings that will help me later. Did you understand? Yes, I understood. You know, I am writing this book about the direction of the non-actors. Je le fais comme une façon d'organizer ma pensée aussi et d'essayer de profiter des expériences, des autres, pour voir... How I, as a director, can get to the existence of the man in front of the camera in a new way, without relying on professional interpreters, without falling into this kind of language that is already well known, well used. I'm looking for... I'm looking for... A voice that I believe is quite new, even since the last 20 years. So that's why I wrote the book. It's not to write a book on a subject, but it's like a way of organizing my own thoughts. Do you understand? And so, I would like to talk a little bit about this problem. I would like to start with a question that could be stupid, but that I would be interested in, and your answer would interest me. It is about creation, the process of artistic creation itself, as you have experienced it. What helps you? What drives you to create? And when you want to do something... What are your steps?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370#t=5.45,207.9"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370/transcript/79359/annotation/2","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Thank you, Capito. What pushes me to create? As far as cinema is concerned, there is no difference between literature and poetry. It is the same feeling that I have never deepened, because I started writing when I was seven years old. And what made me write poetry at the age of seven? I never understood. I called it in various ways. Perhaps the most... The most accurate way is the desire to express oneself, that is, the desire for testimony.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370#t=211.81,252.88"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370/transcript/79359/annotation/3","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 3:\u003c/strong\u003e There is no difference between what Mr. Pazzolini has created in cinema and what he has created with literature. Because he started writing at the age of seven, he never tried to deepen this feeling. It is simply a desire to express oneself, which in cinema, like in literature, pushes him to create.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370#t=256.13,280.43"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370/transcript/79359/annotation/4","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e So, when you get to work, what's on your mind? What are you looking for? I'm sorry to ask you this question, but your answers can be interesting.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370#t=284.419,300.86"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370/transcript/79359/annotation/5","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e But in such a place the question forces me to, I don't know, to a kind of vaguely spiritualist and irrational answer. In front of which I would like to put myself on the defense, in short. It's better if I translate a piece of it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370#t=303.68,319.1"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370/transcript/79359/annotation/6","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 3:\u003c/strong\u003e The way you asked the question, Mr. Pazolini, they feel obliged to give a rather spiritual answer and to put themselves a little on the defensive.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370#t=320.03,328.61"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370/transcript/79359/annotation/7","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, let's try to ask the question again. There are people who are looking for... Upon the a journalistic approach, that is to say, go into life, look for things to get inspired, and then organize them. I wondered if you would adopt this approach, or if you were based on something else.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370#t=330.46,364.64"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370/transcript/79359/annotation/8","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e But there is also this, this is one of the elements, so to speak, documentary, a naturalist writer documents himself on his topics and since my writing, Barth would say, has some naturalistic elements, then it is evident that it is of great interest for the real, real, documentary elements.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370#t=366.84,388.34"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370/transcript/79359/annotation/9","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 3:\u003c/strong\u003e It is one of the elements of his creation, because it is a documentary element, and being a naturalist writer, it is obvious that he takes, in these true elements of life, a material to write.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370#t=390.28,407.54"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370/transcript/79359/annotation/10","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e But I told him I'm a naturalist writer, didn't I?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370#t=409.48,412.02"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370/transcript/79359/annotation/11","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 3:\u003c/strong\u003e Simplificato, veramente!","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370#t=413.03,413.75"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370/transcript/79359/annotation/12","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e I would like to point out that there is an element of what Barth would call my writing. I don't know if you can see the texts of Roland Barth, I don' know if we can see them, which speaks of an institutional literary writing, which is corrected by the style of an author, which is an almost biological, biopsychic data of the author. Naturally, when the author's will intervenes, this style is transformed by Sebastian in writing. In my writing there are elements of naturalistic nature, and therefore love for real things.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370#t=415.83,453.32"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370/transcript/79359/annotation/13","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 3:\u003c/strong\u003e Yes, that is to say that at the moment when the author's will intervenes these elements become the writing and precisely this writing becomes naturalistic. No, I don't know, I can't explain it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370#t=455.61,471.77"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370/transcript/79359/annotation/14","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e It's a stylistic and critical fact, so you need to have a bit of terminology. I don't know how to say it then.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370#t=475.31,480.65"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370/transcript/79359/annotation/15","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e So, uh... When you started working on the Gospel, it killed me. Can you describe a little bit, simply by anecdotes or by... Things start to organize in your mind, elements.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370#t=483.9,516.409"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370/transcript/79359/annotation/16","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e For what concerns the environment, and for what concerns actors, I guess you could say.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370#t=522.24,529.02"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370/transcript/79359/annotation/17","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 3:\u003c/strong\u003e For the actors, that's what interests you.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370#t=531.29,533.77"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370/transcript/79359/annotation/18","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e Yes. First of all, you started out with a desire to do this. It represented something for you. Was this thing explained in... Was there a specific theme in your mind? Or was there simply a taste, a feeling that pushed you to do that?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370#t=534.33,560.62"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370/transcript/79359/annotation/19","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e But I recognized the desire to make the Gospel from a feeling, obviously, because I opened the Gospel by chance, I started reading the first lines, the first pages, and the idea of making the film came to me. Now, evidently, this has been a feeling and an impetus that is not very precise. Deepening this impetus, this feeling, this irrational moment, all my stories and all my literary careers have been sold out.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370#t=561.61,588.85"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370/transcript/79359/annotation/20","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 3:\u003c/strong\u003e Mr. Pazolini was pushed to make this film because he opened the Gospel by chance according to St. Matthew. And by reading the first lines of this Gospel, he felt the desire to make the film. So he left this irrational feeling and he decided to make that film.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370#t=591.5,609.06"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370/transcript/79359/annotation/21","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e So, with this post-coronavirus feeling, which took you from the outside, you started to look for what to give it, to make it come true.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370#t=610.86,624.9"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370/transcript/79359/annotation/22","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e But I discovered first of all that there was an old, latent, and realistic inspiration in my poetry. I remembered the first verses I wrote when I was 18 or 19 years old, which were of a realistic nature. I realized that much of my Marxism also had a, let's say, rationalistic and realistic background. But together with my psychological constitution tends to show me things not from a strictly lyrical, documentary point of view, but especially in the narrative there is always an epic background in my way of seeing the world. And then I obviously had in my head the idea of making a gospel that was a story that could be defined metrically epic-lyric.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370#t=627.12,673.37"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370/transcript/79359/annotation/23","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 3:\u003c/strong\u003e So, by reading this Gospel, Mr. Pazolini realized that in his first poetry, which he wrote at the age of 10, there was a religious background, and that, on the other hand, his Marxism had a religious inspiration. Yes, his inspiration is always, there is always something epic in his inspiration and so this story precisely has a lyrical and epic character.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370#t=675.52,703.02"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370/transcript/79359/annotation/24","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e For this reason, I gave up every realistic reconstruction, every naturalistic reconstruction. I completely abandoned archeology and philology, which are also interesting to me. So I didn't want to make a historical reconstruction. I wanted to leave the subject, its state, essentially religious, that is, mythical, epic and mythical.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370#t=704.9,728.08"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370/transcript/79359/annotation/25","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 3:\u003c/strong\u003e So he absolutely renounced any historical and philological reconstitution, although this is of interest, to give an atmosphere, a background... Epic of film.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370#t=729.57,743.71"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370/transcript/79359/annotation/26","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e In order to do this, I didn't have to rebuild anything. I didn' want to rebuild environments that were philologically exact, reconstructed in theater, through scenographers and architects. On the other hand, I did not even want to reconstruct the ancient Hebrew. I was forced to find both the environments and the characters in reality.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370#t=744.94,772.06"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370/transcript/79359/annotation/27","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 3:\u003c/strong\u003e As Mr. Pazzoli did not want to reconstruct the exact sets from a historical and philological point of view by reconstructing them in the studio, and on the other hand, he did not intend to reconstruct, in short, the Hebrews of antiquity. He was forced to find, to search in reality, the characters and sets that fit his film.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370#t=774.15,795.67"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370/transcript/79359/annotation/28","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e The rule that dominated the making of the film was the rule of analogy. I found environments that were not reconstructed, but were analogous to the environments of the ancient Palestine. I did not reconstruct the characters, but I found them analogous.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370#t=797.81,818.03"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370/transcript/79359/annotation/29","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 3:\u003c/strong\u003e That is to say that the rule that dominated the making of the film was the rule of analogies. In this sense, Mr. Pazolot did not look for exam sets, but sets that were analogous to real sets, and the same for the characters. He looked for characters that were similar to the characters...","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370#t=819.82,837.08"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370/transcript/79359/annotation/30","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e Can you give me some examples, just to be precise?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370#t=838.63,842.69"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370/transcript/79359/annotation/31","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e This forced me to go around southern Italy, because I understood that the pre-industrial and agricultural world of southern Italy was historically similar to that of ancient Palestine.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370#t=844.25,858.71"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370/transcript/79359/annotation/32","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 3:\u003c/strong\u003e He did his research in southern Italy because he understood that the pre-industrial world, the feudal agricultural world of southern Italy was the ideal environment to make the film.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370#t=860.45,874.11"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370/transcript/79359/annotation/33","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e And so I had to look for the environments in southern Italy. Then, one by one, I took the environments of the Gospel of Matthew and I found them and reinvented them in reality. I first saw a city as Matera, it replaced me like this, as it was, without the need of any modification, Jerusalem. Or a village of caverns between Lucania and Puglia replaced me as it is, without reconstructions, Bethlehem and so on.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370#t=876.13,902.43"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370/transcript/79359/annotation/34","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 3:\u003c/strong\u003e For the decor, he found them in the Southern Italy without the need to reconstruct them. The decor he needed, for example the city of Matera, is exactly the city in Jerusalem, or even...","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370#t=904.04,919.14"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370/transcript/79359/annotation/35","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e I will","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370#t=922.52,922.9"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370/transcript/79359/annotation/36","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 3:\u003c/strong\u003e Ah yes, there was a small cave village that was exactly like Bethlehem.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370#t=923.68,928.44"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370/transcript/79359/annotation/37","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e The same thing was done for the characters. I chose the chorus of the minor characters as the background between the faces of the Lucanian, Puglian or Calabrian peasants.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370#t=931.85,944.41"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370/transcript/79359/annotation/38","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 3:\u003c/strong\u003e And the same for the characters, the heart of the secondary characters has been found, he looked for faces among the peasants and all the people of Lucania.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370#t=945.4,954.42"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370/transcript/79359/annotation/39","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e Of faces that did not belong to an ancient time, but precisely to this time or to this decor, to this medieval society that you found here. So you are trying to integrate a kind of human and social reality in the frame of the set you have chosen, is that it? This brings us to how you worked with these people in a story, in the Gospel, displaced or translated by analogies. How did you work with your non-interpreters to bring them into a story that was not theirs. Make it to another","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370#t=955.969,1021.33"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370/transcript/79359/annotation/40","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, I didn't do anything. I didn´t tell them anything, nor did I tell them precisely what characters they were. Because I never chose an actor as an interpreter. I always chose an actors for what he is. I represented him for what it is. I never asked him to transform himself into something else.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370#t=1022.79,1042.03"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370/transcript/79359/annotation/41","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 3:\u003c/strong\u003e Mr. Pasolini didn't tell them anything, he didn't even tell them what character they had to play because he never looked for an actor as an interpreter, that is to say, he never asked him to transform himself into someone else, but he always took it for what he is.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370#t=1043.45,1058.11"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370/transcript/79359/annotation/42","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e The thing was more difficult for the main characters, for example, for what Christ did to me, who is a Spanish student from Barcelona. But also for him, once he said he was part of Christ, he didn't make any preliminary speech, I never told him to transform himself into something else, to interpret, to feel Christ. I always let him be what he was, I chose him for what he is, I never wanted him to be anything outside of himself.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370#t=1061.44,1087.14"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370/transcript/79359/annotation/43","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 3:\u003c/strong\u003e Things were a little more difficult for the main characters, especially for the interpreter of Christ, who is a Spanish student from Barcelona. But even for him, Mr. Pasolini never gave him preliminary speeches, he never told him to feel Christ, to transform himself into Christ, because he simply chose him for what he was, he asked him to be what he really was.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370#t=1088.57,1110.15"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370/transcript/79359/annotation/44","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e By asking him to be what he really was. There was still a certain barrier to overcome, to make him move, to make him act, to make it exist as himself, and at the same time to say what he had to say, to do actions that were part of this action. I'd like to know if you can tell me... How did you get along with him, if you didn't tell him anything specific about the character? What did you say? And then give me examples of how you worked.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370#t=1112.409,1160.68"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370/transcript/79359/annotation/45","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e It happened to me in the Gospel that the photographs of the chosen characters always told the truth in a completely, almost dramatic way. I had to cut out many scenes from the Gospel because I couldn't mystify, not even a little bit, because I don't know for what reason, the goal always takes the interiority of a character. Now, this interiority can be masked through the ability of an actor, or it can be mystified by the director himself through editing or through various tricks. In the book, I never managed to do this.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370#t=1165.36,1203.59"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370/transcript/79359/annotation/46","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 3:\u003c/strong\u003e So, Mr. Pazolini says that the images of the film always give the truth, the most dramatic things in the film. And he couldn't mystify at all, so he had to cut a lot of scenes from the Gospel, precisely because it was absolutely not necessary that these images were forged by the interpretation of the actor, ou bien par... The editing of the film.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370#t=1205.87,1235.89"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370/transcript/79359/annotation/47","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e I don't know if you can tell me more about it. I mean, the images were able to perfectly recall what a man was in his true reality.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370#t=1236.95,1249.59"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370/transcript/79359/annotation/48","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 3:\u003c/strong\u003e Yes, the images show absolutely the truth of the man. She shows him exactly as he is in his reality.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370#t=1253.61,1261.65"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370/transcript/79359/annotation/49","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Now, this can be given that in cinema sometimes a man we put torbid can be part of a candid man.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370#t=1264.009,1273.83"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370/transcript/79359/annotation/50","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 3:\u003c/strong\u003e It is possible in cinema that a troubled man can play the role of an innocent, transparent man.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370#t=1274.99,1282.53"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370/transcript/79359/annotation/51","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e I can take an actor and make him do the part of a re-magic, which is a little important part. But in the re-mages it is clear that there is a deep, mythical candor in their soul.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370#t=1283.24,1292.46"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370/transcript/79359/annotation/52","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 3:\u003c/strong\u003e He can take an actor and make him play the role of a magic king. Naturally, in the magic king, there is a character who has a deep innocence.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370#t=1293.74,1304.58"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370/transcript/79359/annotation/53","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Now, I didn't take on actors, so I didn´t have their ability to transform. I took on real beings. And if by any chance I made a mistake in judging a man psychologically, my mistake immediately came out in the image.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370#t=1308.62,1326.38"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370/transcript/79359/annotation/54","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 3:\u003c/strong\u003e And Mr. Pazolini did not take any actors, so he could not trust their ability to transform. And if he was wrong in his judgment on a man, on the interpreter he was choosing, this error became immediately visible on the images.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370#t=1327.79,1342.15"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370/transcript/79359/annotation/55","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e For example, I'll give you an example, perhaps a bit unpleasant, as this comes to mind. I made the part of the Demons into two actors from the Experimental Center, which I generally chose a bit hastily. Well, in the scene, I had to cut the scene because you could see that these two Demons were two actors of the Experimenting Center.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370#t=1345.7,1367.58"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370/transcript/79359/annotation/56","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 3:\u003c/strong\u003e He chose to play the role of the two who were possessed by the demon, two actors from the experimental center, and he was forced to cut the scene because we clearly saw that these two characters were actors from the experimental center.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370#t=1368.64,1383.68"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370/transcript/79359/annotation/57","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e And so, in reality, my operation, she tells me to give examples of my way of working, of my operation. My operation consists only of being precise, sincere and profound in the workings of men. Whose psychological and sentimental background is real, was real.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370#t=1388.78,1411.59"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370/transcript/79359/annotation/58","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 3:\u003c/strong\u003e Son oeuvre, justement, consiste à être précis, profond et sincère dans son choix des interprètes.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370#t=1412.99,1419.31"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370/transcript/79359/annotation/59","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Once chosen, my work is reduced to almost nothing. I mean, I don't have to give them an idea of what to do with an actor, the idea of who they should be, what they shouldn't be, and what they should do. I take what I am and say these words in this state of mind, and he says them.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370#t=1422.709,1439.63"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370/transcript/79359/annotation/60","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 3:\u003c/strong\u003e Once he has chosen his actors, his work is almost finished because he does not have to tell them to transform themselves in this role, in this character, but simply to tell him to say this line with this woman and he says it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370#t=1440.35,1454.91"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370/transcript/79359/annotation/61","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e To return to Christ, once I chose a person whose background was generally close to what was supposed to be for Christ, I never forced him, I never asked him to do certain things. My suggestions came point by point, moment by moment, scene by scene, action by action. I told him, do this action by getting angry. I didn't even tell him how. He must be angry and he got angry as he could get angry, I didn' intervene.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370#t=1460.4,1487.5"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370/transcript/79359/annotation/62","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 3:\u003c/strong\u003e Once he had chosen Christ, naturally he did not take into account the background of the interpreter. He did not need to suggest his character to him, but he did it point by point, that is, scene by scene, by telling him, saying this line while getting angry, and the interpreter said it while getting mad, as he was getting mad himself, without having to suggest anything else to him.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370#t=1488.96,1513.26"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370/transcript/79359/annotation/63","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e This operation of mine is facilitated by the fact that I never shoot the entire scene. As a director, not a professional, I had to invent a technique that consists of making very short pieces at a time, continuous detentions. I never shot an entire scene all at once.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370#t=1514.62,1533.68"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370/transcript/79359/annotation/64","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 3:\u003c/strong\u003e This work is facilitated by the fact that Mr. Pazoulis never shoots an entire scene. Being not a professional director, he had to invent a new technique. He always shoots very short scenes.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370#t=1536.06,1550.1"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370/transcript/79359/annotation/65","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Even if you're not an actor and you don't have the technical skills of an actor, you can still do it because it's a few minutes short. One piece at a time you can do it. I don't mean the technical ability to transform yourself as an actor but the ability to not be intimidated, to not get lost.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370#t=1555.86,1573.14"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370/transcript/79359/annotation/66","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 3:\u003c/strong\u003e Even if the actor is not a professional, he has the possibility to play his role. He doesn't have to transform into a character, but he simply has the opportunity not to be intimidated, not to get disturbed by the camera.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370#t=1575.42,1592.16"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370/transcript/79359/annotation/67","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e So, if I understand correctly, you've been recording in small pieces. Dans chaque morceau. Little scene, you try to get maybe one thing to interpret, an emotion rather than a sequence.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370#t=1594.94,1615.33"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370/transcript/79359/annotation/68","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Yes, that's right. It is clear that while I could find an analog character, a Remagio, an angel, a character similar to Saint Joseph, it was very difficult for me to find a character similar to Christ. So I had to take something that would somehow get closer, both outside and inside. But then Christ had to build it in the assembly, practically.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370#t=1616.25,1640.25"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370/transcript/79359/annotation/69","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 3:\u003c/strong\u003e Yes, if it was very easy to find an analog character to the King of Magi or to the Angel or to Saint Joseph, it was extremely difficult to find a character that was Christ. So naturally, he took what he found that looked most like Christ, but in fact he built Christ in the editing phase.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370#t=1642.39,1661.19"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370/transcript/79359/annotation/70","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e Toujours pour continuer dans ce même sens. By taking your non-professional interpreters, you were able to assure yourself... For example, with the one who played Christ, you will be able to obtain these moments of anger simply by asking him to be angry, you see? Because you have a man who is not an actor, who does not have the experience of reproducing even his own emotions on command. Have you done any tests before? What have you done to put an end to this man, to ensure that you have chosen someone with whom you can work?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370#t=1666.57,1719.27"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370/transcript/79359/annotation/71","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Generally, they are made of provines, but I never make them. I had to make them for Christ, not for me, but for the producer, who wanted to have a certain guarantee. When I choose an actor, generally instinctively, I also choose one who knows how to hesitate. It's a kind of distinction that until now has hardly ever betrayed me, except in minor or particular cases. But until now I have chosen Franco Citti for Cattone, and Ettore Garofalo for Mamma Roma. In the ricotta with the protagonist who was called a young man of the bourgeoisie. In short, I have always guessed that when I lift the face that seemed to me to be the exact character, instinctively I also lift a possible actor.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370#t=1721.96,1761.2"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370/transcript/79359/annotation/72","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 3:\u003c/strong\u003e Generally, we always make test pieces, but Mr. Pazzolini never did them. For Christ, he had to make test-pieces for the producer, who wanted certain guarantees. But in general, when he chooses the face of an actor, instinctively, he also chooses a possible actor. For example, when choosing Frank Ucci, Tipu Akatone, or Ettore Garofalo, for Mamma Roma. For all these actors, he always chooses... His instinct has practically never wronged him. In his choice of actors, because at the same time that he chose the face, he chose the spirit and the possible actor.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370#t=1762.86,1797.4"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370/transcript/79359/annotation/73","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e This is different from the method of many others who are often looking for a non-actor, someone who is sensitive, who wants to be, because they will ask him to express. You tell me that you intuitively felt the man you needed. You never had other needs than to simply ask, or did you work to put it in psychological condition at all?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370#t=1799.43,1835.57"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370/transcript/79359/annotation/74","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Yes, yes, yes. Until now I have made two or three small mistakes, but of minor parts. But for the major or important parts it has never happened to me that I have been wrong until now. It has been more difficult for me, certainly for Christ, let's say, than for Franco Citti, because Franco Citti was going to make a part that is more or less his own, in short. But until now it has not happened to make me wrong. When I choose non-actors, I actually choose the possible actors.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370#t=1840.41,1870.16"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370/transcript/79359/annotation/75","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 3:\u003c/strong\u003e Until now, Mr. Pazzolini has practically never been wrong, except in small secondary roles. But for all the main actors, he always got everything he wanted from them, because when he chooses his interpreter, he's always the possible actor he chooses. And naturally, for Franco Citti, things were easier, because he had to interpret his own role, practically his own character. He had more difficulty with Christ, but... The interpreter responded to what he expected from him.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370#t=1872.7,1904.46"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370/transcript/79359/annotation/76","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e When you say that you had more difficulties with the one who played Christ, can you tell me about the problems, the difficulties you had?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370#t=1905.99,1915.41"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370/transcript/79359/annotation/77","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e But first of all, this young Spanish student, in principle, was not allowed to do the Christ. In fact, he is not even a believer. The first difficulty was the fact that I made the part of Christ one who did not believe in Christ. And now this caused inhibitions because, in fact, being suitable for this student to do Christ, he was not an extroverted, simple, normal person. It was a man who said that... Complex internally, and then it was difficult in the early days to make them overcome these complexes of timidity, of shame, of inhibition. While for the other actors I didn't have to do this. The first one I put in front of the car and took immediately and I quoted as I wanted.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370#t=1916.96,1962.68"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370/transcript/79359/annotation/78","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 3:\u003c/strong\u003e The first difficulty regarding Christ was that this Spanish student, who had to play the role of Christ, was an unbeliever. So he had a lot of inhibitions, and on top of that, he had the temperament of being rather locked up and turned towards himself. It was not an expansive and exuberant temperament. So on the first days he had some timidity, some modesty to play in front of the camera. While for the other characters, as soon as they found themselves in front of the camera, they played instinctively and spontaneously.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370#t=1964.1,2000.0"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370/transcript/79359/annotation/79","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e So, what do I do to make this incredible Spanish interpreter feel comfortable and bring him back to something that you want?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370#t=2001.14,2016.88"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370/transcript/79359/annotation/80","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e But I got this simply because of his good will. He is a very intelligent young man, very cultured, linked to me by a friendship born in those days, but with an ideological base, a desire to be useful to me, and so on, quite strong. And then on this he managed to win his shyness. And as for the rest... I made him recite small pieces at a time, as I said. And without even preparing them beforehand, I suggested the expressions as he recited them. Since my recording was not sonorous, it was only visual, and so I could talk to the actor while he was reciting, I took it as a surprise, I don't know, like a sculptor who constructs a statue with sudden thumb strokes. While the actor was recitating, I said, Now it's getting serious, look here. I said to him, the expression is one-on-one, and he followed him almost mechanically.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370#t=2018.3,2077.76"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370/transcript/79359/annotation/81","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 3:\u003c/strong\u003e He mainly called on the good will of this actor who was very intelligent and very cultured. Since he had created a great friendship between them during the shooting, also on ideological basis, this actor has been able to respond. He has overcome his shyness. And on the other hand, since Mr. Pazolini did not shoot the film with the soundtrack, but only with the image band, he suggested the expressions one by one. As the actor was shooting, he would tell him what expression he should have, and the actor would obey and execute his suggestions practically mechanically.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370#t=2080.01,2122.62"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370/transcript/79359/annotation/82","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e Très bien. Est-ce que vous pouvez me dire un exemple de comment vous avez suggéré l'expression pendant le tournage à l'acteur? C'était la caméra en tournée, et vous étiez en train de parler avec lui, alors je voudrais simplement un exemple concret de la façon dont vous avez parlé avec lui et comment vous You to bring out this expression.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370#t=2124.95,2156.09"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370/transcript/79359/annotation/83","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, I don't remember a precise example, because I was always like this. He knew more or less the memory of the joke, and he started to say it, otherwise I suggested to him the action, he had to do, I do not know, ten steps, move, look at someone. Now I never told him before, if not very generally, what it was about. And then as he acted, I told him, now look at me, now watch down there. With an expression of anger. Now I soften the expression, slowly, towards me, with a sweet and friendly expression. Like this, for example. While the machine was spinning, I would say these things. I prepared the action very vaguely, because he knew more or less what he had to do and where he had go. But the shades of expression, the movements, the small actions, I would suggest gradually.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370#t=2157.65,2205.9"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370/transcript/79359/annotation/84","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 3:\u003c/strong\u003e The actor knew by heart what he was going to say. And Mr. Pazolini prepared very vaguely the action he was supposed to do. And then all the nuances of the expressions, the small actions, the movements he was to do, he suggested to him as he acted. During the shot? During the shoot. For example, he said to him, go this way, look at this person with an irritated look, and then, soften up and look at me with gentleness. Pendant qu'il tournait.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370#t=2208.02,2238.06"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370/transcript/79359/annotation/85","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e The actor had not been planned before shooting what had to be done except for some general movements.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370#t=2238.96,2251.0"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370/transcript/79359/annotation/86","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Yes, I gave him general movements and approximately what he had to do. And then I would specify things while we were shooting. Sometimes I would surprise him. That is, I would tell him, now you would look at me with great sweetness. Then, while he knew where to do this, he would probably say, now you probably get angry, and he would object.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370#t=2251.34,2269.64"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370/transcript/79359/annotation/87","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 3:\u003c/strong\u003e Mr. Pazzolini, before shooting, would tell him in a general way the action he was supposed to do. And then, for the details, he would tell it gradually, and from time to time he would also surprise him, for example, after telling him, look at me gently, to the improviser, he would say to him, now, get angry.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370#t=2273.22,2292.5"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370/transcript/79359/annotation/88","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e You will not find that sometimes these verbal indications... And these indications of verbal emotion. Don't throw the actor in a kind of... Of imitations, of acting games, of theatrical games, because all of a sudden, we're looking for, what is it, anger or...","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370#t=2295.59,2325.16"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370/transcript/79359/annotation/89","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e No, this would be done by the actors. But someone who is not an actor, chosen in the particular way in which I chose, will never do this. It is not possible because the technical problems of an actor have never been solved. So he does not have a technical idea, he has a real, sincere idea.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370#t=2326.79,2345.91"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370/transcript/79359/annotation/90","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 3:\u003c/strong\u003e What you're saying is that they are actors who could do it, but not an interpreter who is not an actor, especially not the particular way in which he was chosen, because he doesn't have a technical idea of anger or a certain expression. He knows anger as he feels it, as he really feels it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370#t=2347.56,2365.54"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370/transcript/79359/annotation/91","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e Do you often use this method in your other films as well to produce the emotions you are looking for? This method of suggesting emotion during the shot without the interpreter being warned?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370#t=2367.66,2386.02"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370/transcript/79359/annotation/92","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Yes, I do it quite often. Other times, for example, I make them say a joke different from what it should be. For example, it should say I hate you, instead I make it say good morning. And then, in double, I put I hate. I also do these kinds of surprises here.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370#t=2386.93,2403.17"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370/transcript/79359/annotation/93","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 3:\u003c/strong\u003e This is a method that Mr. Pasolini uses quite often. On the other hand, he also has the habit of making the actor say another line of what he should say. For example, he should have said, I love you or I hate you, and he makes him say hello, and during the editing, he replaces the line.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370#t=2405.14,2423.74"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370/transcript/79359/annotation/94","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e Exactly. You say hello to him and you replace the replica with a gesture, is that it? Or with a meaning, with something else?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370#t=2425.4,2436.74"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370/transcript/79359/annotation/95","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e I should say to him, say, I hate you, as if you were saying good morning. So this is a bit of a complicated reasoning for an actor who is not an actor. I even make him say good morning and then in dubbing I apply the word I hate in his mouth.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370#t=2437.94,2451.54"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370/transcript/79359/annotation/96","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e Ah, well, then you should know how to explain it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370#t=2452.38,2454.8"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370/transcript/79359/annotation/97","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 3:\u003c/strong\u003e More or less, it's clearer. He should explain to the actor that he has to say, I love you, as if he was saying hello. Reasoning is quite complicated for an actor who is not professional. So he simply makes him say hello, and during the editing he replaces this reply with I love.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370#t=2455.17,2470.65"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370/transcript/79359/annotation/98","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e Hours of work. In the dubbing, the post-synchronization. You find that you have problems. Do you hire other non-actors at this time?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370#t=2472.069,2490.65"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370/transcript/79359/annotation/99","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e I do one thing and the other. I often take non-actors, who turn out to be very good actors. For Christ, I was forced to take an actor, for example, depending on the circumstances. I try to level it as much as possible.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370#t=2495.84,2511.04"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370/transcript/79359/annotation/100","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 3:\u003c/strong\u003e Mr. Pazolini does both, he appeals to actors and non-professional actors who are very good actors in dubbing. He tries to balance one and the other.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370#t=2513.26,2524.54"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370/transcript/79359/annotation/101","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e For example, the guy from Mammarò, Mettore Garofale, had a double voice on his own. Franco Citti couldn't do it on his his own because he was very good, but his voice was a bit displeasing. So he had a dupe for another character.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370#t=2528.63,2538.77"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370/transcript/79359/annotation/102","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 3:\u003c/strong\u003e For example, the young man of Mamma Roma, Ettore Garofalo, he was able to dub himself. And Franco Citti was a very good actor. He would have been able to do it, but he had a slightly unpleasant voice, so he dubbed another character.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370#t=2540.9,2553.62"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370/transcript/79359/annotation/103","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e First of all, to summarize, if I understand correctly, you never explain the psychology of the role in an actor. You don't entertain him with who he must be. Do you tell the story to him? Do you say what's going to happen to him, etc.?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370#t=2564.779,2594.18"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370/transcript/79359/annotation/104","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Yes, I do, in two words out of curiosity, but I never have serious conversations with him. I explain to him, if he has doubts, he asks me, he says to me, but what do I have to do with pressure here? Then I try to explain to them, but always point by point, particular by particular, never together.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370#t=2596.74,2613.1"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370/transcript/79359/annotation/105","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 3:\u003c/strong\u003e Mr. Pazurinin explains the story, but in a few words, out of curiosity. If the actor has doubts and asks him precisely what he should do, he tells him what he must do, but always point by point, in a detailed way, taking the details, but not in a general way, the whole psychology of the role.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370#t=2616.05,2635.51"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370/transcript/79359/annotation/106","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e That is to say, you only explain it at the time of shooting the shot, the shot. So you keep, by this means, you avoid that the actor becomes, in some way, put on stage, or who sees too far. You then seek the existence of the moment to another on a very simple shot. Chez l'interprète. If I understand correctly, to get to the expression, you add certain things, details, at that moment, which are expressive. Would that be correct? Do you manage to add physical movements, gestures that express, but that the actor or the interpreter does not feel? That is to say, they are not part of their own...","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370#t=2635.82,2707.38"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370/transcript/79359/annotation/107","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e No, I never let them make gestures, not his. I always let gestures be his. I tell them what they have to do, I don't know, slap one or take a glass, but I let them do their own gestures. I never intervene on his gestures.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370#t=2707.96,2721.42"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370/transcript/79359/annotation/108","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 3:\u003c/strong\u003e Mr. Pazolot never intervenes on the actor's gestures. He never tells him to do gestures that are not his own. He naturally tells him the action he has to do, to give a whistle to someone or to take a glass, but he does not make him do gestures which are not spontaneous.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370#t=2723.05,2737.05"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370/transcript/79359/annotation/109","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e Play. The medium of expression, of emotion when you want to get out of this little piece of the scene, you then obtain by the natural gesture that you ask him to do, by the act. That is to say, it can be expressive if he takes the briquet. It can, for you, it may say something. It can create the climate that you're looking for. So, you're not explaining the climate, you're simply explaining to him to take the bouquet.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370#t=2739.77,2781.9"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370/transcript/79359/annotation/110","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e If I want to underline this fact, I underline it with my means, with the technical means, with the camera, with framing, with editing. I don't underline that to him. Rather, I look at it from the point of view of the intentions. Because these intentions are the phasal side of the actor, in my opinion.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370#t=2783.08,2800.52"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370/transcript/79359/annotation/111","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 3:\u003c/strong\u003e If Mr. Pazolini wants to underline a gesture, he does it himself with the means he has, with the camera or during the editing. But he keeps himself well to give an intention to the actor, because according to him, this is precisely what makes the actor's play wrong.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370#t=2801.79,2816.13"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370/transcript/79359/annotation/112","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e I want to ask a small question in detail here, which continues in this same line. I think the answer is no, but I'll ask you anyway. Have you ever been able to brutalize the actor or tell him something to cheat on him? I mean... To use the interpreter against himself. To tell him one thing to get another. To say hello to him, but in the sense of the game of actions. Do you understand what I mean?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370#t=2819.37,2871.23"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370/transcript/79359/annotation/113","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e I don't know, maybe I didn't understand everything","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370#t=2873.0,2874.4"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370/transcript/79359/annotation/114","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 3:\u003c/strong\u003e Did you say Yes, in the sense of talking to the actor, that is, to tell him something to get another one from which he is not aware or conscious.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370#t=2874.57,2892.82"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370/transcript/79359/annotation/115","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e I think it's a lie. Well, it never happened to me until now, but if it was necessary, I would do it. It never happened because my actors don't have bourgeois inhibitions, and so it doesn't matter, they lend themselves generously. Franco Sitti, Eto'o e Garofalo, the protagonist of La Ricotta, and even my Christ. They went completely blind, and they don't really have the sense of human respect. Or false pride, hypocrisy, so I never happened to have to do this, but if it had to happen, I would do it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370#t=2895.98,2934.74"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370/transcript/79359/annotation/116","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 3:\u003c/strong\u003e Now this has never happened to him, but if it had to happen to him he would do it. But it never happened because he always had interpreters who did not have inhibitions, small bourgeois complexes, who were always generously given, who always did ... They did not had piety, complexity, human respect, they always did everything that was asked of them without false piety.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370#t=2936.06,2957.76"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370/transcript/79359/annotation/117","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e Justement ça ça nous amène à ce problème Neo-realism has, for the most part, contented itself with filming people in this blessed, primitive state which does not normally touch the bourgeois social environment. They were able to take advantage of the simplicity of the people who don't look at themselves while playing, who don' have this false sense of joy. We want to go to the beings, to find, for example, my problem. We want make a film in America with non-actors. I find myself immediately in front of people who already have this fear of revealing themselves, this kind of doubling of themselves. Je me demandais si vous voyiez une façon. To work with these people to use them. Because it seems to me that it's a problem, and it's still a necessary thing to do. A film that also uses this level of society.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370#t=2959.62,3047.83"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370/transcript/79359/annotation/118","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e But this problem was presented to me with the Gospel, because while for the other films I took from popular characters, for the Gospel I also had to take from non-popular characters, because it's all a series of apostles, of characters of the Gospel that belonged to the ruling class of the time, and so I, obeying the usual rule of analogy, had to get from the members of the current ruling class. But since it was about apostles or characters in some way exceptional, I took intellectuals, of Borghese yes, but intellectuals.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370#t=3051.08,3081.53"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370/transcript/79359/annotation/119","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 3:\u003c/strong\u003e This problem was presented to Mr. Pasolini not in the other films where he has always had to deal with popular characters but in this last film in the Gospel where some characters like the apostles were characters of the ruling class of that time. So by following this trail of the analogy that he followed to make his film he had to appeal to characters who were not popular at our time and he appealed ... To intellectuals, to bourgeois, but to intellectual bourgeois.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370#t=3084.26,3113.51"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370/transcript/79359/annotation/120","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e It was facilitated because the fact that they were intellectuals, in some way, removed this kind of, not instinctively, but consciously, this kind of pride that he spoke of. In the case that one should use non-intellectual bourgeois actors, I believe that one can keep everything with them, just love them.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370#t=3117.14,3136.62"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370/transcript/79359/annotation/121","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 3:\u003c/strong\u003e Things were made easier because intellectuals were able to get rid of, not instinctively, but consciously, of the impudence you were talking about. And regarding the problem of directing bourgeois people who are not intellectuals, Mr. Pazolini thinks that it is enough to love them.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370#t=3138.52,3157.06"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370/transcript/79359/annotation/122","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e Can you tell me how you took the intellectuals to help them get rid of the popular? Or did you help them?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370#t=3160.26,3173.62"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370/transcript/79359/annotation/123","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e The process was the same as for the people. With them I used a language that was much higher, critically higher, but the methods were always the same.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370#t=3175.59,3184.99"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370/transcript/79359/annotation/124","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 3:\u003c/strong\u003e He used exactly the same methods as with the interpreters who belonged to the popular class, obviously speaking to them in a higher language, in a critically higher way, but the method didn't change.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370#t=3186.91,3198.53"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370/transcript/79359/annotation/125","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e Vous avez senti le besoin avec tous ces gens. To know them long before shooting. That is to say, to try to immerse them in their lives or to make them friends, to learn the gestures they have in particular, to be able to use them afterwards.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370#t=3202.13,3225.2"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370/transcript/79359/annotation/126","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e I knew Franco Citti for many years, because he was a brother of a friend of mine, so I knew his character more or less. For example, Ettore Garofalo, who made Mamma Roma, I saw him one day in a bar that served, he was the waiter, and I did all the signage about him without having spoken to him, because I preferred not to know him. I took him, I started shooting, then I saw only one minute in a restaurant.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370#t=3228.61,3253.13"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370/transcript/79359/annotation/127","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 3:\u003c/strong\u003e For Franco Citti, Mr. Pazzolini knew him for a long time, he knew his character very well. But for Ettore Garofalo, who played in Mama Roma, he saw him in a bar where he was a coffee boy, and he wrote the whole script on this boy after having seen him for one minute in this bar, and he knew him at the time of shooting.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370#t=3255.2,3275.66"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370/transcript/79359/annotation/128","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e I prefer not to make such an operational knowledge, to organize the knowledge of the actor, because if a person intuits it, he already knows it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370#t=3277.96,3291.44"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370/transcript/79359/annotation/129","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 3:\u003c/strong\u003e He prefers not to have an organized knowledge of his interpreter because he thinks that if we have an intuitive knowledge, if we are aware of a man, of a character, we already know him.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370#t=3293.37,3305.49"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370/transcript/79359/annotation/130","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e So, there are a few technical questions about how you proceed. Have you already cut out the scene in your mind? When you arrive to shoot, do you already have in your head, here I am going to make a big shot, here I will make a long shot? Or do you, to the extent that you... You're working on the scene. The requirements of the scene suggest the way to shoot it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370#t=3309.71,3349.38"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370/transcript/79359/annotation/131","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Generally I already have in mind very precisely what I will do because I made the screenplay myself. Having done it myself, I have already organized the scene in a given way. And so I see it, I'm not like a director who sees the scene with his own eyes, which are probably different from that of the screenwriter. In addition, I myself choose the places where I shoot the scenes. So I go to these places and I make the adaptation of the scene that I did to the place that I chose. So when I go there, more or less, I already know what the scene is like.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370#t=3350.4,3385.7"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370/transcript/79359/annotation/132","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 3:\u003c/strong\u003e Mr. Pasolini already has a very precise idea of the way he will shoot the scene, because he is the one who writes the cutting. So he already sees it with his eyes. It's not like a director who sees the scene in a certain way, which is different from the screenwriter's. And on the other hand, he himself chooses the places, the sets of the film, so he already knows how he will frame the scene. And when he's going to shoot, he already has a precise idea of what he's supposed to do.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370#t=3386.78,3418.96"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370/transcript/79359/annotation/133","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e Vous savez alors, chaque plan, vous avez.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370#t=3419.55,3421.49"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370/transcript/79359/annotation/134","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e I did this for all the films, except for the Gospel, because in the Gospel the thing was so delicate, it was so easy to fall into ridicule, into the banal, or into the film in costume. In short, the dangers were so many that they were never predictable. And now, since everything is so unpredictable, I had to shoot at least three or four times more than the necessary material. And practically then the scenes of the Gospel were all done in editing.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370#t=3422.819,3446.74"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370/transcript/79359/annotation/135","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 3:\u003c/strong\u003e This method was used for all films, except for the Gospel because it was so delicate. It was impossible to predict all the problems. It was very easy to fall into ridicule or into banality. And we couldn't predict all dangers. It was full of dangers. So, practically...","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370#t=3449.1,3468.88"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370/transcript/79359/annotation/136","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e I shot the whole Gospel with two machines. So I took two or three different points of view, collecting a lot of material, between four and more than the usual material. And so, practically, the scenes of the Gospel I made, I formed them, as they are, in editing.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370#t=3471.45,3489.81"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370/transcript/79359/annotation/137","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 3:\u003c/strong\u003e So he shot the whole film with two cameras, so he had three or four times more material than needed, and then he recreated the scenes during the editing.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370#t=3491.1,3501.7"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370/transcript/79359/annotation/138","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e I made it as if I were making a documentary about the life of Christ, by chance, and then in Moviola I built the scene.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370#t=3503.01,3509.19"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370/transcript/79359/annotation/139","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 3:\u003c/strong\u003e He made it as if he had shot a documentary on the life of Christ. And then, in La Moviola, he reconstructed the scenes.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370#t=3511.04,3519.06"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370/transcript/79359/annotation/140","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e Did this documentary spirit push you to look for certain types of framing? Yes, framing.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370#t=3520.26,3529.5"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370/transcript/79359/annotation/141","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, yes, an idea of framing, I always have in mind, a kind of framing that is almost natural to me. But with the gospel I wanted to break this technique, for a very complicated problem, in two words this. I had a very precise technique that I had experienced in Nacatone, in Mamma Romana and earlier, which is fundamentally, as I said at the beginning, religious, epic precisely for nature, I would say. May it endure on behalf of all of us.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370#t=3531.7,3559.8"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370/transcript/79359/annotation/142","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 3:\u003c/strong\u003e Yes, Mr. Pazzolini always had a natural style for the choice of framing and that he followed for Akatone and for Mama Roma. But for the Gospel he wanted to break with this style, precisely because this film should have a mythical and epic nature.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370#t=3560.74,3578.86"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370/transcript/79359/annotation/143","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e I said that my style, my technique, even before doing the Gospel, in Cattone, in Mamma Roma, was a technique and a style that had something sacred and epic.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370#t=3581.63,3593.15"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370/transcript/79359/annotation/144","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 3:\u003c/strong\u003e It's Akatoni and Mamaroma who had an epic style, something sacred and epic in their style. Akatomi and Mamarroma.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370#t=3594.68,3605.06"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370/transcript/79359/annotation/145","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e I believed that my style, being, by nature, equipped with these qualities of sacredness and epicity, would be good for the Gospel, but no, it was not true. Because in the Gospel this sacredness, this epicity became false and insincere priorities.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370#t=3606.93,3623.069"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370/transcript/79359/annotation/146","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 3:\u003c/strong\u003e Mr. Pasolini thought that this style, being mythical and epic, would go very well with the Gospel. On the contrary, it was not true at all, because this mythical and mythical nature became a lack of sincerity and authenticity.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370#t=3624.74,3642.399"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370/transcript/79359/annotation/147","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e They had to re-build all my techniques, to forget all that I knew, what I had learned with Akatone Domomaro, and start all over again. I trusted the case, the magma, the confusion, the casuality, etc. All this was due to the fact that I am not a believer. So in Akatono I was able, in the first person, to tell a story as an author, and I believed in that story. But I couldn't tell the story of Christ, in which the slave Christ was the son of God. I, as an author, tell it, since I'm not a believer.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370#t=3644.209,3676.339"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370/transcript/79359/annotation/148","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 3:\u003c/strong\u003e Mr. Pazzolini had to rebuild his style and give up everything he had learned while shooting the other films. He had to rely on confusion and chance. On the other hand, being a believer, when he was telling Cattone, it was a story that he told himself, while telling the story of Christ, being an believer, he couldn't tell his own story, a story written by himself.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370#t=3678.049,3704.31"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370/transcript/79359/annotation/149","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e In which I am the direct author. This forced me to tell the story of Christ indirectly, that is, as seen through the eyes of those who believe in it.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370#t=3706.549,3718.209"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370/transcript/79359/annotation/150","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 3:\u003c/strong\u003e And this led to telling this story indirectly, that is to say, as seen through the eyes of someone who believes in this story.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370#t=3719.779,3727.7"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370/transcript/79359/annotation/151","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e As always, when you tell a story indirectly, it changes the style. While the style, when told directly, has some characteristics, the style of a novel told indirectly has other characteristics. For example, if I describe Rome with my words, I describe it in a given style. But if I write Rome through the words, let's say, of a Roman character, then I come out with another style, there is the dialect, the popular language, and so on.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370#t=3729.899,3756.54"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370/transcript/79359/annotation/152","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 3:\u003c/strong\u003e Naturally, as every time we tell a story in an indirect way, the style changes because it can no longer obey the same characteristics as, for example, if Mr. Pasolini speaks of Rome with his own words to the first person, it's one thing, but if he speaks of Rome through a Roman character, he is obliged to employ the dialect and reactions and popular expressions. Which are not theirs.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370#t=3757.729,3787.75"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370/transcript/79359/annotation/153","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e And with a mind that is...","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370#t=3789.22,3790.1"}]},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370/transcript/79359","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["English [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262370/transcript/79359/annotation/154","type":"Annotation","motivation":"subtitling","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/file_transcripts/associated_files/000/079/359/original/trint_Coll458_jb0044_Pasolini_01_transcript.vtt?1746656316","format":"text/vtt","language":"en"},"target":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/file_transcripts/associated_files/000/079/359/original/trint_Coll458_jb0044_Pasolini_01_transcript.vtt?1746656316"}]}]},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262367","type":"Canvas","label":{"en":["Media File 5 of 5 - Coll458_jb0044_Pasolini_02_p3.mp3"]},"duration":1386.44898,"width":640,"height":360,"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/public/images/audio-default.png","type":"Image","format":"image/png"}],"items":[{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262367/content/1","type":"AnnotationPage","items":[{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262367/content/5/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"painting","body":{"id":"https://aviary-p-universityoforegonlibraries.s3.wasabisys.com/collection_resource_files/resource_files/000/262/367/original/Coll458_jb0044_Pasolini_02_p3.mp3?1739226448","type":"Audio","format":"audio/mpeg","duration":1386.44898,"width":640,"height":360},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262367","metadata":[]}]}],"annotations":[{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262367/transcript/79355","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["AUTO_TRINT_Coll458_jb0044_Pasolini_02_p3.mp3 [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262367/transcript/79355/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e The problem of de-landing. No, no, but de- landing. Why should Americans look elsewhere? Why do they need our world to be able to see America again? But I didn't do it. Now I want to make a film in the United States. Can bring out the contradiction between the American mythology, mythology you understand, yes, that is to say, the American way of life, this mythology of the pioneer, the far west, all that, and against the American current. Yes, but against American news, because in American news Americans still act with old values, with old ideas. That explains, if you want, the Vietnam War. It's a story of the Western world, the war in Vietnam. Les communistes sont des mauvais garçons, ce sont... These are the traitors, the villains. It explains American psychology, once we understand the past. I don't want to solve it, but I want to meet this contradiction between a life that no longer corresponds to this old one. So that's why I'm doing this survey. I want to make a book, but the book is to help me organize my thoughts on how to take reality. You see? Comment je vais m'enraciner, mettre des racines dans la vie américaine. Not to give only my idea but my idea and more the life outside, you see, to have this kind of dialectical relationship between my vision, my way of seeing things. The life that exists. C'est pour ça que je veux, moi je pose des questions stupides parfois, vous voyez, bêtes, des questions simples, pour savoir comment... Rosi, Holmi, all these people worked to get an impression of life, an existence, among the performers. So, Gregory told me... C'était beaucoup plus difficile de faire jouer, agir des interprètes non professionnels, c'est-à-dire non professionnistes, qui venaient d'une vie bourgeoise. He said because he saw himself playing, he already knew what cinema was. So it was much more difficult to make them live, to make exist in front of the camera. So I was wondering what were your experiences with more evolved people, if you understand me, more bourgeois.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262367#t=4.32,264.44"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262367/transcript/79355/annotation/2","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e I think that it's the same difficulty, if it's a same show, if... I mean, shooting with... With non-professional actors from the bourgeoisie, or with actors from... From the countryside, or... With the people, with the aristocrats. The difficulty is always that, that is, finding the key to the character. It's always a preparation work to set this subject on fire. Not all subjects are suitable. We can find greater difficulties with one character than with another. But on average, I think the difficulties are the same. There is no difference. In any case, in any case the director who works with... With the bourgeoisie, just because it's easier to communicate, to understand each other. For example, he must stand up for a certain defense of the man who thinks he has his own vision of life and therefore presents himself in front of the camera with a certain irony. But this is inevitable. That is, perhaps the populace is afraid of the cameras. The Borghese goes in front of us for chivetteria, almost to show that it does not burn. He touches and says, it doesnt burn the car, then he turns, but the difficulties seem to me the same.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262367#t=266.13,362.23"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262367/transcript/79355/annotation/3","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e Can you tell me how, I don't remember if you really told me this, but how do you find the key to a character? Can you give me an example? Or if you had to employ me in your film... How will you work with me to find what makes me work, what makes me act?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262367#t=363.419,400.97"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262367/transcript/79355/annotation/4","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e In your specific case, the thing is difficult because I haven't understood well yet, just because of language difficulties, like you. I should ask too many questions. But she already belongs to a different kind, she already is part of an elite. It is not possible to use her as a means, not everyone, there are people who cannot control themselves, because she could also pretend a reality It could be like having fun at the same place, it could be a boomerang, I come to do a job on her and then she does it on me. Being a person of a certain intellectual level is much more difficult. In fact, intellectuals are not suitable to do parts of cinema. It depends, but those are really... To keep them away from cinema, also because they have nothing to say, in my opinion, in this kind of expression. They can't give up, because they've got too many mental reserves. She's not in the game. Or if she is, she tries to deform it, to bring things in a way that pleases her more than me. Do you understand? This is a big way because I don't know her, so I don´t know. But to find the key, you have to be a little careful, like in the dark. She enters a room in the darkness and looks for the key for the light. Usually, always in the same place, on the left as soon as she enters. But in some case she enters a house, looks for a key and doesn't find it. And she realizes that on the other side, to look for it, it takes a little more time. You risk making a mistake, falling. It happens. You take a character, he works very well, he has a wonderful face, he puts him in front of the camera, he blocks himself, nothing happens.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262367#t=406.8,549.84"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262367/transcript/79355/annotation/5","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e Fellini that he can do anything with anyone. Fellini told me that he could take me, but it's because Fellini only looks for the face. The face. And he can use it, dress it, do it his way. But what are you looking for? Are you looking to find a man who are of the same job or the same profession. But what else do you look for in a man when you choose him?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262367#t=554.66,592.23"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262367/transcript/79355/annotation/6","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e But I always hope that it has a story inside. I always think it has something of its particular to tell me. Just because, at a certain point, storing people's knowledge also means putting aside a big heritage for one's own work, a work of this kind. I always look for a man who, above all, beyond the face, has inside the sensibility that I believe to be found outside. Instead, it's not always like that. She sees a face, she thinks that inside this one she can have who knows what, and then in reality she has nothing. It's a job like going hunting.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262367#t=593.79,634.14"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262367/transcript/79355/annotation/7","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e Do you do tests before, do you film people with... No, no, no.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262367#t=637.56,644.04"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262367/transcript/79355/annotation/8","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e I took some pictures, I take pictures.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262367#t=644.23,646.55"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262367/transcript/79355/annotation/9","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e And interviews.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262367#t=647.319,647.64"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262367/transcript/79355/annotation/10","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Many interviews. To make the film about prostitutes, Love is Poor, I interviewed about 250 prostitues. They told me hundreds of stories. Even the stories are true of the film. Besides the prostitute are the protagonists of the movie, the stories that have been told in the film are those that they have told in the interviews. I mean, even the stories are authentic. In some cases, I managed to... To have a story and the protagonist of the story. Like the case of that little girl and that mother. I didn't let them do the same thing. They knew how to do it perfectly because of their character, it was something inside.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262367#t=649.38,706.96"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262367/transcript/79355/annotation/11","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e After having done a lot of interviews. You will not, of course, take all the people you have interviewed. You will take one, two people. Two, three maybe prostitutes. But all the stories you have heard, of all the teachers, do you incorporate them? Do you use them? And impose them on these two or three prostitutes.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262367#t=717.07,752.82"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262367/transcript/79355/annotation/12","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Not the stories but elements of the stories, elements, some details, some things that can, because they are always part of the same environment, the same, you understand? So maybe the element of a story is reported in another but in short it is always, it is always the truth, the story is always authentic, it does not have... Ahem! I think that I would like, for example, I would really like... To make a film. Mondiale. This is a proposal that I also make to you, to others. That is, we think that the world, our world, for a mysterious reason, will be flooded by the waters and everything will end, everything will perish. So we know, we directors of Cinema Verite, we know 6 months earlier And then instead of making Noah's Ark... Why can't we save ourselves? We will try to leave a jubilant thing, a vase, a barrel, a big bottle, with a film inside. And then, I don't know, two directors in Italy present Italy, or Europe, two European directors present Europe in 1965, as they see it with cinema verite. In America the same, in Asia, in Africa, in Australia, and we give this document of our time, of our life, just as it is seen from the directors of the cinema Verite. I think it would be nice. A film to make with almost desperation, because we could save very little. It's not a film to show... Our things, but we can't put more than so many things, understand? I mean, every director can have at his disposal, I don't know, a thousand meters. What would you put in a thousand meter of America? If you were forced to put America and give it in a 1000 meters. Think how curious the prospect is. See that it is not a story, yet there are the stories of all.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262367#t=754.39,929.3"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262367/transcript/79355/annotation/13","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e Alors comment vous pensez...","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262367#t=932.51,933.35"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262367/transcript/79355/annotation/14","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e But now we'll see, it's just an idea, now I want to think about it. I mean, I would be forced to give America a thousand meters, it is a word. But I think it could be an extraordinary film.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262367#t=934.65,947.65"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262367/transcript/79355/annotation/15","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e Yes, if I understand well, yes, that's enough. So, I think we can finish the interview. I was wondering if you had anything else to say about your way of seeing cinema, or working with non-actors that you have not said so far, that you would like to add? To this interview.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262367#t=952.14,997.0"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262367/transcript/79355/annotation/16","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e But I think, just to conclude, that more directors should be dedicated to this, to the cinema Verite, especially those directors who earn hundreds of millions, who make big commercial films, but who undoubtedly have great qualities. Because perhaps they could see in a different perspective what we are trying to see with our modest means. Because without a doubt, I say, if Ferini started making a movie, a movie of truth, he too, probably with his sensitivity, with his qualities in discussion, could do a great thing. And so many others. In my opinion, this thing has also been undervalued. I think that the films made with non-professional actors have been underestimated because of the difficulties, the challenges, the acrobatics that need to be done to make... An atmosphere to make a scene, to make history, a dialog with these people are infinite. And I really say that there is a complete, total intervention of a person in the attempt to make something sincere, authentic. It's very difficult. If we want to perform, we have to do other things. We have to work in other ways, otherwise we wouldn't be able to do it. Then I say the discourse, in my opinion, between cinema and the truth, and non-professional actors and characters. It's different. In my opinion, you can also make cinema verite with professional actors, if they interpret themselves. I could make a film verite on Alberto Sordi, or on Mastroianni. Mastroyanni who makes Mastrosianni is cinema verité. But non-professional actors are always very interesting because at least one always makes new experiences and finds new faces. Then it's inconceivable to always work with the same face in front of you. Because I say, let's see, 50 films made by the same actor. There's just a different way to express yourself because all the people's gestures... They are different, they are new, and then you need to have a great interest in human physiology, in my opinion.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262367#t=999.62,1185.42"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262367/transcript/79355/annotation/17","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e Do you think you can really make a movie about Master Rihanna, since he's an actor?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262367#t=1185.65,1191.99"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262367/transcript/79355/annotation/18","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e I think so.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262367#t=1193.63,1193.99"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262367/transcript/79355/annotation/19","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e What approach would you take so he doesn't play anymore?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262367#t=1194.39,1197.19"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262367/transcript/79355/annotation/20","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e We could also make a film about Sofia Loren, another actor. It would be enough to live together, to make a proposal, to be together for a month and to be there with the car and to shoot in the right moments. This is very interesting.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262367#t=1198.41,1221.97"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262367/transcript/79355/annotation/21","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e I didn't think he was playing R.A. In front of the camera.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262367#t=1225.48,1227.68"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262367/transcript/79355/annotation/22","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Well, but even this becomes cinema, if he starts playing in front of the camera, out of the cinema, out from the theater of Posa, it becomes a real document. If he also recites outside the theater, it's fine. We lost that in the","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262367#t=1228.5,1247.28"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262367/transcript/79355/annotation/23","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e So, I don't have any other questions to ask you. I think we've gone around the horizon.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262367#t=1252.56,1258.4"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262367/transcript/79355/annotation/24","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Maybe we made a big mistake because of the language difficulty. Maybe I answered other things. Anyway, let's hope that something will be understood.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262367#t=1257.94,1268.82"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262367/transcript/79355/annotation/25","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e But I think we were able to do a certain continuity of ideas. I understood enough to be able to ask you some questions. And I hope that if there are other questions, maybe I will write to you.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262367#t=1269.6,1288.18"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262367/transcript/79355/annotation/26","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e If you want, I'll leave you my address now, my address, if you want.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262367#t=1289.37,1294.63"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262367/transcript/79355/annotation/27","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e Yes, yes, I have the address. I have address 67... Ah, well... ...Baldwins.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262367#t=1294.5,1300.3"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262367/transcript/79355/annotation/28","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e I'll be with you.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262367#t=1302.16,1302.7"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262367/transcript/79355/annotation/29","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e I live in Oregon, in the United States, but I will spend most of the year in New York and then in Los Angeles, to write my stuff, but, I can give you my address. Good. So, I hope I can...","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262367#t=1304.62,1324.16"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262367/transcript/79355/annotation/30","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e If you need something from Italy, you can write to me. Very, very good.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262367#t=1324.82,1330.92"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262367/transcript/79355/annotation/31","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e J'espère pouvoir rencontrer M. Zavattini.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262367#t=1331.49,1334.55"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262367/transcript/79355/annotation/32","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e Have you already spoken with Zavattini? No.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262367#t=1337.39,1340.35"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262367/transcript/79355/annotation/33","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e He is in Paris, but he must be back on Thursday night, tomorrow evening.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262367#t=1341.25,1347.59"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262367/transcript/79355/annotation/34","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e I saw him at noon, after noon, he left for Paris at 2 o'clock.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262367#t=1347.79,1357.53"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262367/transcript/79355/annotation/35","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e Ah well, he'll be back tomorrow night.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262367#t=1357.91,1359.33"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262367/transcript/79355/annotation/36","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e I'll demonstrate.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262367#t=1359.65,1359.81"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262367/transcript/79355/annotation/37","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e It's Kozulic who wanted to make the appointment for me. He told me that he would see it tomorrow evening. Maybe I can see it at tomorrow evening or on Friday.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262367#t=1361.26,1371.5"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262367/transcript/79355/annotation/38","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 2:\u003c/strong\u003e That's a great name, Zavattini.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262367#t=1372.41,1374.11"},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262367/transcript/79355/annotation/39","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cstrong\u003eSpeaker 1:\u003c/strong\u003e It's still curious that Zavatini...","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262367#t=1377.44,1379.84"}]},{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262367/transcript/79355","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["English [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://uoregon.aviaryplatform.com/collections/236/collection_resources/141793/file/262367/transcript/79355/annotation/40","type":"Annotation","motivation":"subtitling","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/file_transcripts/associated_files/000/079/355/original/trint_Coll458_jb0044_Pasolini_02_p3_transcript.vtt?1746655925","format":"text/vtt","language":"en"},"target":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/file_transcripts/associated_files/000/079/355/original/trint_Coll458_jb0044_Pasolini_02_p3_transcript.vtt?1746655925"}]}]}]}